I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here.
I can see this makes for a great argument in the decision of past and future disputes.
Taking a bus in Israel and being blown sky-high by some Palestinian madman wearing a belt of explosives? Your fault. The darwinian instinct could have told you not to...
Does anyone here work in a skyscraper in the US, per chance? What about 9/11 firefighters? Heros or fools? Thanks to Randycat we now know the answer. Pass the message to their widows, will you?
Always blame the victim, this way you can avoid ever criticizing "your" side. Go with the team! Don't ever hesitate!
Well, the UN security council just condemned the massacre (the US abstained, but did not veto).
So, Scot and Randycat, is the security council now officially anti-semitic? They clearly did send a one-sided message here - focused on a single incident. No lame excuses based on some darwinian hogwash either, as far as I can tell.
Israel, with a sense of humor, killed five more palestinians in response - just to give the UN the stink finger, I presume.
Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a senior aide to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites), welcomed the U.S. abstention and called on the U.S. government to "force Israel to accept international forces here to protect the Palestinian people."
Israel appeared unconcerned about the U.S. vote. Raanan Gissin, an aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites), attributed the abstention to the "delicate situation in which the United States finds itself today."
European leaders sharply criticized Israel but the United States stopped short of condemning the attack.
"I continue to urge restraint," President Bush (news - web sites) told reporters in Washington. "It is essential that people respect innocent life in order for us to achieve peace."
...
The fighting has revived debate inside Israel on its continued presence in Gaza. Sharon has proposed withdrawing from the volatile area, but his Likud Party rejected the proposal earlier this month. Sharon has pledged to push forward with his plan.
In a statement Wednesday, the White House statement said Wednesday's deaths "serve as a grim reminder of the wisdom" of Israel pulling out of Gaza.
Can Israel please share some of the crack it is supplying to the junkies in the white house? It seems to working wonders.
New! You didn't answer my question. Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed. Where's you condemnation then?
New! You didn't answer my question. Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed. Where's you condemnation then?
I don't equate killing soldiers in an armed conflict with firing tank and helicopter shells at civilian demonstrators.
But for you especially: Parading bodyparts is against international law. killing armed soldiers isn't. The guilty persons should be punished accordingly. In a court. probably with a fine or prison.
BTW, how do you know that all of those soldiers were jews? There are other ethnic groups in the IDF too. You do know that?
Maybe? How 'bout the next time a bomb goes off in the Jewish state you run straight to your computer and post a thread bemoaning the endless cycle of violence that the arab muslims are instigating and wax on about how Arafat and IJ and Hamas and most other arab countries are trying to destabilize the region and what a horrible violation of international law it is and how the UN needs to pass a resolution against it and on and on.
Maybe? How 'bout the next time a bomb goes off in the Jewish state you run straight to your computer and post a thread bemoaning the endless cycle of violence that the arab muslims are instigating and wax on about how Arafat and IJ and Hamas and most other arab countries are trying to destabilize the region and what a horrible violation of international law it is and how the UN needs to pass a resolution against it and on and on.
so the next time a bomb goes of in israel, it's the fault of every Arab (as loong as he is a muslim)?
Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed.
So start one already. If you see an injustice going on that others here might not be aware of, feel free to bring it to our attention.
The thing is, I guarantee that you won't find a single person on these boards trying to defend a Palestinian terrorist who has just murdered a group of innocent civilians.
The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.
Does it surprise me that the psychopathic Bush administration tacitly supports this kind of state run terrorism and murder by Israel (in contrast to the universal global condemnation) by abstaining in the UN security councils resolution? Not one bit. Anything the Israelis do is OK with them. If Sharon nuked Damascus or Teheran on a whim, Bush and company would probably be OK with that also.
The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.
Children's march with big brothers with guns.
Don't want to rock the boat sammi jo but we aren't there and the stories coming to us are varied...this is a typical sick cycle of events...over and over and over...they can all go to their religious forms of "paradise" as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to find a job, get back to living and they can all go fuck themselves.
The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.
Sammi....so upset at childrens deaths...never upset when they are jewish children though..you know, the ones always on the buses that explode?
Yes, this is a pretty horrible incident. Too bad people on this thread only feel it is horrible enough to discuss when it is Arab who have died. Yes, I know, all violence is the ME is bad, yet you all seem to only get riled up about it when it is acts of violence from the jewish state. I can't remember ever seeing SJo post link after repetitive link regarding the evils and corruption of the PA. I haven't seen NEW start a thread about the loss of Jewish women and childen, having their throats cut in their homes. Bunge has yet to get into a heated arguement decrying the busloads of jews killed every year. Sure, these people may throw in the occasional "boy, that was awful" or "well, the wasn't nice" but it's always with conditions. "well, that was awful that a busload of jews got blown up again...damn Sharon..He is to blame"
Scott has said as much, but of course you all just dismiss it as extremist rantings. Easy to brush it off a rationalise your onesided views. But, perhaps scott is right. perhaps for some, but not all, you views are based on a hatred of jews, perhaps not even a hatred you acknoledge to yourself. It wasn't too long ago I remember reading about another incident where every one jumping up and down about an act involving Irsael. At the time I think it was said that it was due to "typical jewish arrogance". Realistically, that statement could be assigned to many of you and you wouldn't flinch.
Can Israel please share some of the crack it is supplying to the junkies in the white house? It seems to working wonders.
"Israel apologized for the deaths, saying its troops did not deliberately fire on marchers. A preliminary army investigation concluded that a warning shot fired by a tank flew through a building and hit the crowd, security sources said on condition of anonymity."
Ah...they are learning from us...if all else fails use the "Magic Bullet Theory".
" Israel also blamed the Palestinians, saying gunmen infiltrated the crowd of about 3,000 people protesting the incursion into the Rafah refugee camp. Witnesses denied militants were among the marchers, and Palestinian leaders denounced the incident as a massacre."
I can see this makes for a great argument in the decision of past and future disputes.
Taking a bus in Israel and being blown sky-high by some Palestinian madman wearing a belt of explosives? Your fault. The darwinian instinct could have told you not to...
Does the bomber step on the bus with the "Palestinian madman" outfit with belt explosives fully exposed? I'm pretty sure they don't, and if they did, they'd be pretty stupid to follow him into the same bus just to get to their destination. So yes, there is an applicable Darwin element there. The reality, however, is that the bombers don't announce their intentions beforehand. There is no "context" to respond to. The other bus passengers are not in a protest nor are they deliberately approaching an armed battalion with harmful intent. They are simply riding in a freakin' bus.
Quote:
Does anyone here work in a skyscraper in the US, per chance? What about 9/11 firefighters? Heros or fools? Thanks to Randycat we now know the answer. Pass the message to their widows, will you?
It was their duty to save people. They know well beforehand that their lives will be at risk while doing what they do. They also don't bring along "children" in their squad while performing their duties. They also don't rush into a burning structure that is clearly about to collapse. They do have an idea of when the risk is manageable to enter a structure, when it is necessary to pullback, and when it is best to not enter at all. They are heros. Only you could actually be uncertain on this.
Question is, who is a protestor directly "saving" by marching toward an armed battle unit? Was it wise to bring along women and children in their demonstration? What did they hope to accomplish other than become fodder for the media feeding fest?
Quote:
Always blame the victim, this way you can avoid ever criticizing "your" side. Go with the team! Don't ever hesitate!
The devil is in the details. You won't get far just by reacting to sensationalist newspaper headlines.
" Israel also blamed the Palestinians, saying gunmen infiltrated the crowd of about 3,000 people protesting the incursion into the Rafah refugee camp. Witnesses denied militants were among the marchers, and Palestinian leaders denounced the incident as a massacre."
I wanted the source since these picures have not surfaced in regular israeli sources, and I wanted a cofirmation that they are actually from this incident.
Several sources are claiming that there were no armed men in the dmonstration.
Comments
Originally posted by Randycat99
I'd say the Darwin criterias should be applicable here.
I can see this makes for a great argument in the decision of past and future disputes.
Taking a bus in Israel and being blown sky-high by some Palestinian madman wearing a belt of explosives? Your fault. The darwinian instinct could have told you not to...
Does anyone here work in a skyscraper in the US, per chance? What about 9/11 firefighters? Heros or fools? Thanks to Randycat we now know the answer. Pass the message to their widows, will you?
Always blame the victim, this way you can avoid ever criticizing "your" side. Go with the team! Don't ever hesitate!
So, Scot and Randycat, is the security council now officially anti-semitic? They clearly did send a one-sided message here - focused on a single incident. No lame excuses based on some darwinian hogwash either, as far as I can tell.
Israel, with a sense of humor, killed five more palestinians in response - just to give the UN the stink finger, I presume.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716
...
Nabil Abu Rdeneh, a senior aide to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites), welcomed the U.S. abstention and called on the U.S. government to "force Israel to accept international forces here to protect the Palestinian people."
Israel appeared unconcerned about the U.S. vote. Raanan Gissin, an aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites), attributed the abstention to the "delicate situation in which the United States finds itself today."
European leaders sharply criticized Israel but the United States stopped short of condemning the attack.
"I continue to urge restraint," President Bush (news - web sites) told reporters in Washington. "It is essential that people respect innocent life in order for us to achieve peace."
...
The fighting has revived debate inside Israel on its continued presence in Gaza. Sharon has proposed withdrawing from the volatile area, but his Likud Party rejected the proposal earlier this month. Sharon has pledged to push forward with his plan.
In a statement Wednesday, the White House statement said Wednesday's deaths "serve as a grim reminder of the wisdom" of Israel pulling out of Gaza.
Can Israel please share some of the crack it is supplying to the junkies in the white house? It seems to working wonders.
Originally posted by Scott
New! You didn't answer my question. Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed. Where's you condemnation then?
I don't equate killing soldiers in an armed conflict with firing tank and helicopter shells at civilian demonstrators.
But for you especially: Parading bodyparts is against international law. killing armed soldiers isn't. The guilty persons should be punished accordingly. In a court. probably with a fine or prison.
BTW, how do you know that all of those soldiers were jews? There are other ethnic groups in the IDF too. You do know that?
Originally posted by Scott
Maybe? How 'bout the next time a bomb goes off in the Jewish state you run straight to your computer and post a thread bemoaning the endless cycle of violence that the arab muslims are instigating and wax on about how Arafat and IJ and Hamas and most other arab countries are trying to destabilize the region and what a horrible violation of international law it is and how the UN needs to pass a resolution against it and on and on.
so the next time a bomb goes of in israel, it's the fault of every Arab (as loong as he is a muslim)?
Originally posted by Scott
Why no thread when the arab muslims are parading around with a bag full of body parts of the Jews they have killed.
So start one already. If you see an injustice going on that others here might not be aware of, feel free to bring it to our attention.
The thing is, I guarantee that you won't find a single person on these boards trying to defend a Palestinian terrorist who has just murdered a group of innocent civilians.
Originally posted by New
BTW, how do you know that all of those soldiers were jews? There are other ethnic groups in the IDF too. You do know that?
He's too blindly racist to acknowledge that fact.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$TTP5WWJFKPQ0RQFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2004/05/20/wmid20.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/20/ixnewstop.html
Does it surprise me that the psychopathic Bush administration tacitly supports this kind of state run terrorism and murder by Israel (in contrast to the universal global condemnation) by abstaining in the UN security councils resolution? Not one bit. Anything the Israelis do is OK with them. If Sharon nuked Damascus or Teheran on a whim, Bush and company would probably be OK with that also.
The Rapture? Bring it on .
Originally posted by sammi jo
The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.
Children's march with big brothers with guns.
Don't want to rock the boat sammi jo but we aren't there and the stories coming to us are varied...this is a typical sick cycle of events...over and over and over...they can all go to their religious forms of "paradise" as far as I'm concerned. I'm going to find a job, get back to living and they can all go fuck themselves.
Originally posted by sammi jo
The worst about this latest atrocity is that the Israeli military deliberately mowed down kids. According to the Daily Telegraph, one of the UK's most conservative national dailies, this was a children's march, godammit.
Sammi....so upset at childrens deaths...never upset when they are jewish children though..you know, the ones always on the buses that explode?
Yes, this is a pretty horrible incident. Too bad people on this thread only feel it is horrible enough to discuss when it is Arab who have died. Yes, I know, all violence is the ME is bad, yet you all seem to only get riled up about it when it is acts of violence from the jewish state. I can't remember ever seeing SJo post link after repetitive link regarding the evils and corruption of the PA. I haven't seen NEW start a thread about the loss of Jewish women and childen, having their throats cut in their homes. Bunge has yet to get into a heated arguement decrying the busloads of jews killed every year. Sure, these people may throw in the occasional "boy, that was awful" or "well, the wasn't nice" but it's always with conditions. "well, that was awful that a busload of jews got blown up again...damn Sharon..He is to blame"
Scott has said as much, but of course you all just dismiss it as extremist rantings. Easy to brush it off a rationalise your onesided views. But, perhaps scott is right. perhaps for some, but not all, you views are based on a hatred of jews, perhaps not even a hatred you acknoledge to yourself. It wasn't too long ago I remember reading about another incident where every one jumping up and down about an act involving Irsael. At the time I think it was said that it was due to "typical jewish arrogance". Realistically, that statement could be assigned to many of you and you wouldn't flinch.
Originally posted by talksense101
Didn't want to get into yet-another bashing contest, but this article from Yahoo (Associated Press) pushed me into it. Here are some quotes from
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716
Can Israel please share some of the crack it is supplying to the junkies in the white house? It seems to working wonders.
"Israel apologized for the deaths, saying its troops did not deliberately fire on marchers. A preliminary army investigation concluded that a warning shot fired by a tank flew through a building and hit the crowd, security sources said on condition of anonymity."
Ah...they are learning from us...if all else fails use the "Magic Bullet Theory".
/thanksarlenspecter...
Ooop. My bad. They're both asshats...
Originally posted by bunge
Some people posting in this thread refuse to recognize that it is never legal to fire tank rounds into a crowd of people, even if they have guns.
Don't put me in that group. Or I'll get my tank after you.
/allthisisgoingnowhereagain
Originally posted by Smircle
I can see this makes for a great argument in the decision of past and future disputes.
Taking a bus in Israel and being blown sky-high by some Palestinian madman wearing a belt of explosives? Your fault. The darwinian instinct could have told you not to...
Does the bomber step on the bus with the "Palestinian madman" outfit with belt explosives fully exposed? I'm pretty sure they don't, and if they did, they'd be pretty stupid to follow him into the same bus just to get to their destination. So yes, there is an applicable Darwin element there. The reality, however, is that the bombers don't announce their intentions beforehand. There is no "context" to respond to. The other bus passengers are not in a protest nor are they deliberately approaching an armed battalion with harmful intent. They are simply riding in a freakin' bus.
Quote:
Does anyone here work in a skyscraper in the US, per chance? What about 9/11 firefighters? Heros or fools? Thanks to Randycat we now know the answer. Pass the message to their widows, will you?
It was their duty to save people. They know well beforehand that their lives will be at risk while doing what they do. They also don't bring along "children" in their squad while performing their duties. They also don't rush into a burning structure that is clearly about to collapse. They do have an idea of when the risk is manageable to enter a structure, when it is necessary to pullback, and when it is best to not enter at all. They are heros. Only you could actually be uncertain on this.
Question is, who is a protestor directly "saving" by marching toward an armed battle unit? Was it wise to bring along women and children in their demonstration? What did they hope to accomplish other than become fodder for the media feeding fest?
Quote:
Always blame the victim, this way you can avoid ever criticizing "your" side. Go with the team! Don't ever hesitate!
The devil is in the details. You won't get far just by reacting to sensationalist newspaper headlines.
Originally posted by Artman @_@
" Israel also blamed the Palestinians, saying gunmen infiltrated the crowd of about 3,000 people protesting the incursion into the Rafah refugee camp. Witnesses denied militants were among the marchers, and Palestinian leaders denounced the incident as a massacre."
Ooop. My bad. They're both asshats...
Could you please post the source of this picture?
Originally posted by New
Could you please post the source of this picture?
A photojournalist at the march...no, wait...I photoshopped it. The whole damn situation in the Middle East was photoshopped. Didn't you know that?
Find it yourself.
You can start here...but be warned the images are graphic.
Originally posted by Artman @_@
A photojournalist at the march...no, wait...I photoshopped it. The whole damn situation in the Middle East was photoshopped. Didn't you know that?
Find it yourself.
You can start here...but be warned the images are graphic.
hey, relax smokey!
I wanted the source since these picures have not surfaced in regular israeli sources, and I wanted a cofirmation that they are actually from this incident.
Several sources are claiming that there were no armed men in the dmonstration.