actually, since the few mentions of 975 have been that it's based on the Power5, that would lead one to believe the previously linked articles DON'T have anything to do with it. It's clear from the articles that they're talking about yeilds of the new 90nm process. but the Power5 (and presumably the 975) use a 130nm process.
Uh, not exactly. The Power chips are built for reliability, and use a larger, better tested process. The Power4s are 180nm, and the G5 was 130nm. It seems very likely that the 975 will be introduced at 90nm.
Uh, not exactly. The Power chips are built for reliability, and use a larger, better tested process. The Power4s are 180nm, and the G5 was 130nm. It seems very likely that the 975 will be introduced at 90nm.
The POWER4+ is on 130nm. I would be surprised if we saw any more chips for Apple (from IBM) at 130nm.
Apple has done a lot of messing with code names to prevent actual information from getting out, and to reduce its credibility assuming it DOES get out.
They've reused code names. They've told some people one code name and others a different one so they can narrow down the source of a leak. They have used highly misleading code names to add confusion (i.e., the code name for Newton OS 2.0 was Newton OS 3.0). I would not doubt for a second that the new G5s COULD be code named "Trinity." But maybe it's just saying "this is the trinity of PowerMacs that will come out."
If it's true I have to say... GOD DAMN STOP IT WITH THE YIKES MACHINES!!! Other than that... awesome! Still, using an outdated graphics bus for the low end machine is stupid as hell. It's happened before, with the Yikes! G4 that used crappy PCI for graphics, limiting it to a Radeon graphics card (whereas the AGP G4s can take a Radeon 9800 or GeForce 4 Titanium).
Didn't that strange "riddles of the past" thread some time ago at AI talk about Trinity's return? Also isn't Xbox 2 rumoured to have three (3 in 1 = Trinity?) PPC976 chips? Just a thought.
Lets assume for one minute that this rumour is true. The specifications for these machines as so far in excess of the current model and contain some rather more expensive parts that I hfind it hard to believe that these would make an etry at the same price levels. If they do, the preformance gap between the iMac and new G5's would leave the 1mac dead in the water. The iMac is already suffering badly with it rather out of date specifications.
So, I would expect that within 4 weeks of announcement we will either see a G5 -lite to bridge the gap or a new iMac or both.
It wasn't a serious question. I guess you haven't been around here long enough to remember Junkyard Dawg and his penchant for stories involving drunk Apple employees spilling the beans. It was just a lame AI reference.
I know what oblique means.
I was merely trying to slyly induce Programmer into giving some more detail. First the JD reference and now this. Man, NOBODY gets me!
For what it's worth tman, I hope you're sincere with your story about 3GHz at WWDC. It'd be a shame if you're really some 14 year old punk trolling for the hell of it. It's been awhile since somebody came on the boards claiming to have actual inside info. That's what this place is for, right?
For what it's worth Ensign, I am sincere about what I've posted here but allow me to temper what I've said with the following: I know the gentleman who imparted this information to me only in passing. The context of the dialogue was based on my beginning casual statement to him of how much I looked forward to getting home to my Mac after a day of work in a PC environment. It went on from there and expanded to what I've stated above. Let me be clear; this guy might have been playing me like a hooked bass for all I know but I'm paid to judge and evaluate human nature and I "believe" what he told me but I do not "know" it to be true. I'm a stand up guy and I promise that if WWDC doesn't produce what he said it would I will start a "beat me up" thread here in future hardware.
As for being a 14 year old troll (I know that's not an accusation but rather supposition)- born in Chicago 1949, graduated high school 1968, University of Denver 1971- 3 kids (2 boys 19 & 24, 1 girl 22). Will have been married to my bride of 30 years October of this year. I know a 14 year old could write that, but I hope you can be persuaded if only from the qualitative mechanics of my writing.
I'll colse with this: You, Ensign, and most others on this board have vastly superior knowledge of computers in general and Macs in particular than I. You guys are a wealth of information which is why I come to the AI forums- mainly to learn rather than post- and it's a hell of a good time. I hope, as I know everyone here does as well, that what I was told is true.
For what it's worth Ensign, I am sincere about what I've posted here but allow me to temper what I've said with the following: I know the gentleman who imparted this information to me only in passing. The context of the dialogue was based on my beginning casual statement to him of how much I looked forward to getting home to my Mac after a day of work in a PC environment. It went on from there and expanded to what I've stated above. Let me be clear; this guy might have been playing me like a hooked bass for all I know but I'm paid to judge and evaluate human nature and I "believe" what he told me but I do not "know" it to be true. I'm a stand up guy and I promise that if WWDC doesn't produce what he said it would I will start a "beat me up" thread here in future hardware.
As for being a 14 year old troll (I know that's not an accusation but rather supposition)- born in Chicago 1949, graduated high school 1968, University of Denver 1971- 3 kids (2 boys 19 & 24, 1 girl 22). Will have been married to my bride of 30 years October of this year. I know a 14 year old could write that, but I hope you can be persuaded if only from the qualitative mechanics of my writing.
I'll colse with this: You, Ensign, and most others on this board have vastly superior knowledge of computers in general and Macs in particular than I. You guys are a wealth of information which is why I come to the AI forums- mainly to learn rather than post- and it's a hell of a good time. I hope, as I know everyone here does as well, that what I was told is true.
Wait a minute: an intelligent, well written, lucid, sincere, and dare I say it, believable rumor? Are you sure this is AI?
Well, tman, I'm getting onboard your train, and not just because of the compliments. (You're definitely not 14 at least. The English language weeps for the younger generation.)
So, since I'm now going to believe you, let me grill you for even more details. What terms did he use to describe the processor itself? Did he specifically say 975 or Power5-lite or mention the fab/glue problems with the 970fx, or did he just say "new G5s from IBM" without any knowledge of the codenames? If not, did he seemed surprised that you knew the codenames also?
Dig deep into your memory tman. You are the momentary Belle of the Ball here at AI and no detail is too small.
Wait a minute: an intelligent, well written, lucid, sincere, and dare I say it, believable rumor? Are you sure this is AI?
Well, tman, I'm getting onboard your train, and not just because of the compliments. (You're definitely not 14 at least. The English language weeps for the younger generation.)
So, since I'm now going to believe you, let me grill you for even more details. What terms did he use to describe the processor itself? Did he specifically say 975 or Power5-lite or mention the fab/glue problems with the 970fx, or did he just say "new G5s from IBM" without any knowledge of the codenames? If not, did he seemed surprised that you knew the codenames also?
Dig deep into your memory tman. You are the momentary Belle of the Ball here at AI and no detail is too small.
He specificly referred to the 975 "chipset" in reference to the next generation PM's. What's the difference between the chip and the chipset anyway. I didn't ask- didn't want to look stupid. The new PM's will be desigined around the 975 processor. He did not refer to the power 5 or power 5 derivitave. It is a much more robust (his word-not mine) processor than the 970. He probably would have gone into more technical detail if he was talking to you or Programmer, but I guess he surmised from the conversation that I wasn't too techanially adept. He also told me (I asked this specifically) that the AGP was being replaced with PCIe. That's really the sum and substance of the conversation. Man, what have I gotten myself into? I feel like a nun in a cat house.
You're the man, tman! Thanks for the greater detail.
Your source's specifics on PCIe give me great hope. Anyone who attended Apple's Motion presentation at NAB was struck by that breakthrough app's reliance on the GPU. Those new realtime, drag and drop, no keyframe necessary Behaviors are all being rendered by the graphics card. I think this very clearly indicates a new push at Apple to treat the GPU as a second (or third) processor.
What people don't appreciate about PCIe is that it isn't merely 16x (as opposed to AGP's 8x), it's 16x in both directions. It can return data to the CPU just as fast as it gets it (AGP is restricted to 1x back to the CPU). This opens up all kinds of Open GL accelerated scenarios that would be impossible with AGP. I believe Motion is just the tip of the iceberg and that we'll see extensive GPU optimization in Tiger. In fact, I expect WWDC to be the coming out party for PCIe and all it can do for Apple's OS and apps.
So, I sure as Hell hope tman's source was telling the truth. A water-cooled, dual 3GHz 975 Power Mac G5 with PCIe native ATi x800 graphics at WWDC?
I think the only thing explicitely missing here (after rereading this thread) is if the 975 machines will ship at WWDC, or a little later, or a lot later...
You're the man, tman! Thanks for the greater detail.
Your source's specifics on PCIe give me great hope. Anyone who attended Apple's Motion presentation at NAB was struck by that breakthrough app's reliance on the GPU. Those new realtime, drag and drop, no keyframe necessary Behaviors are all being rendered by the graphics card. I think this very clearly indicates a new push at Apple to treat the GPU as a second (or third) processor.
What people don't appreciate about PCIe is that it isn't merely 16x (as opposed to AGP's 8x), it's 16x in both directions. It can return data to the CPU just as fast as it gets it (AGP is restricted to 1x back to the CPU). This opens up all kinds of Open GL accelerated scenarios that would be impossible with AGP. I believe Motion is just the tip of the iceberg and that we'll see extensive GPU optimization in Tiger. In fact, I expect WWDC to be the coming out party for PCIe and all it can do for Apple's OS and apps.
So, I sure as Hell hope tman's source was telling the truth. A water-cooled, dual 3GHz 975 Power Mac G5 with PCIe native ATi x800 graphics at WWDC?
Splooge!
HAHA
Where did water-cooled come into play though?
Can you go into more detail on PCIe for me??
Whats the numbers of the bandwidth? All I can find is info on PCI-Express... which obviously isn't PCIe... enlighten me.
I think the only thing explicitely missing here (after rereading this thread) is if the 975 machines will ship at WWDC, or a little later, or a lot later...
Bet on later for low and mid....
Bet on a lot later for high end....
They will ship 5 high end machines by september 22nd so jobs can be right
They will ship 5 high end machines by september 22nd so jobs can be right
This would be no different than what happened with the original G5s last year and we all lived through that.
And for the 1 millionth time, he didn't say "end of summer", he said "within twelve months" which can only be interpreted as 3GHz G5s being at least announced no later than this year's WWDC. At least, that's obviously what he meant at the time.
I just threw that in to complete my dream machine, not that water cooling is out of the question for the new G5s, especially if they're 975 based. I didn't mean to imply tman had relayed that feature from his source.
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Can you go into more detail on PCIe for me??
Whats the numbers of the bandwidth? All I can find is info on PCI-Express... which obviously isn't PCIe... enlighten me.
4GB per second in both directions. It's really the bilateral nature of the data transfer that makes it so compelling. There are probably others on these boards more qualified than I to speak on the merits of PCIe though.
In the meantime here's an article from The Inquirer.
Comments
Originally posted by concentricity
actually, since the few mentions of 975 have been that it's based on the Power5, that would lead one to believe the previously linked articles DON'T have anything to do with it. It's clear from the articles that they're talking about yeilds of the new 90nm process. but the Power5 (and presumably the 975) use a 130nm process.
Uh, not exactly. The Power chips are built for reliability, and use a larger, better tested process. The Power4s are 180nm, and the G5 was 130nm. It seems very likely that the 975 will be introduced at 90nm.
Originally posted by spankalee
Uh, not exactly. The Power chips are built for reliability, and use a larger, better tested process. The Power4s are 180nm, and the G5 was 130nm. It seems very likely that the 975 will be introduced at 90nm.
The POWER4+ is on 130nm. I would be surprised if we saw any more chips for Apple (from IBM) at 130nm.
They've reused code names. They've told some people one code name and others a different one so they can narrow down the source of a leak. They have used highly misleading code names to add confusion (i.e., the code name for Newton OS 2.0 was Newton OS 3.0). I would not doubt for a second that the new G5s COULD be code named "Trinity." But maybe it's just saying "this is the trinity of PowerMacs that will come out."
If it's true I have to say... GOD DAMN STOP IT WITH THE YIKES MACHINES!!! Other than that... awesome! Still, using an outdated graphics bus for the low end machine is stupid as hell. It's happened before, with the Yikes! G4 that used crappy PCI for graphics, limiting it to a Radeon graphics card (whereas the AGP G4s can take a Radeon 9800 or GeForce 4 Titanium).
So, I would expect that within 4 weeks of announcement we will either see a G5 -lite to bridge the gap or a new iMac or both.
And these specs as published would be equally cataclysmic in the PC world, especially at the prices mentioned by Existence.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
It wasn't a serious question. I guess you haven't been around here long enough to remember Junkyard Dawg and his penchant for stories involving drunk Apple employees spilling the beans. It was just a lame AI reference.
I know what oblique means.
I was merely trying to slyly induce Programmer into giving some more detail. First the JD reference and now this. Man, NOBODY gets me!
For what it's worth tman, I hope you're sincere with your story about 3GHz at WWDC. It'd be a shame if you're really some 14 year old punk trolling for the hell of it. It's been awhile since somebody came on the boards claiming to have actual inside info. That's what this place is for, right?
For what it's worth Ensign, I am sincere about what I've posted here but allow me to temper what I've said with the following: I know the gentleman who imparted this information to me only in passing. The context of the dialogue was based on my beginning casual statement to him of how much I looked forward to getting home to my Mac after a day of work in a PC environment. It went on from there and expanded to what I've stated above. Let me be clear; this guy might have been playing me like a hooked bass for all I know but I'm paid to judge and evaluate human nature and I "believe" what he told me but I do not "know" it to be true. I'm a stand up guy and I promise that if WWDC doesn't produce what he said it would I will start a "beat me up" thread here in future hardware.
As for being a 14 year old troll (I know that's not an accusation but rather supposition)- born in Chicago 1949, graduated high school 1968, University of Denver 1971- 3 kids (2 boys 19 & 24, 1 girl 22). Will have been married to my bride of 30 years October of this year. I know a 14 year old could write that, but I hope you can be persuaded if only from the qualitative mechanics of my writing.
I'll colse with this: You, Ensign, and most others on this board have vastly superior knowledge of computers in general and Macs in particular than I. You guys are a wealth of information which is why I come to the AI forums- mainly to learn rather than post- and it's a hell of a good time. I hope, as I know everyone here does as well, that what I was told is true.
Originally posted by Luca
Other than that... awesome!
Eh...
I'd guess I would like this rumor better if the baseline was also a dual.
Oh well, you can't have everything in life.
Originally posted by tman
..... Look, I'm a 54 year old .....
You mean there's actually someone older than me that frequents this board.
I'm pushing 53 and also frequent these boards for amusement and kernels of knowledge as they present themselves.
Originally posted by tman
..... Will have been married to my bride of 30 years October of this year. .....
Curious, I also was married in October.(insert Twilight Zone theme here)
Hope the person you met wasn't yanking your chain, an IBM 975 introduced sooner rather than later can only help Apple at this time.
Originally posted by tman
For what it's worth Ensign, I am sincere about what I've posted here but allow me to temper what I've said with the following: I know the gentleman who imparted this information to me only in passing. The context of the dialogue was based on my beginning casual statement to him of how much I looked forward to getting home to my Mac after a day of work in a PC environment. It went on from there and expanded to what I've stated above. Let me be clear; this guy might have been playing me like a hooked bass for all I know but I'm paid to judge and evaluate human nature and I "believe" what he told me but I do not "know" it to be true. I'm a stand up guy and I promise that if WWDC doesn't produce what he said it would I will start a "beat me up" thread here in future hardware.
As for being a 14 year old troll (I know that's not an accusation but rather supposition)- born in Chicago 1949, graduated high school 1968, University of Denver 1971- 3 kids (2 boys 19 & 24, 1 girl 22). Will have been married to my bride of 30 years October of this year. I know a 14 year old could write that, but I hope you can be persuaded if only from the qualitative mechanics of my writing.
I'll colse with this: You, Ensign, and most others on this board have vastly superior knowledge of computers in general and Macs in particular than I. You guys are a wealth of information which is why I come to the AI forums- mainly to learn rather than post- and it's a hell of a good time. I hope, as I know everyone here does as well, that what I was told is true.
Wait a minute: an intelligent, well written, lucid, sincere, and dare I say it, believable rumor? Are you sure this is AI?
Well, tman, I'm getting onboard your train, and not just because of the compliments. (You're definitely not 14 at least. The English language weeps for the younger generation.)
So, since I'm now going to believe you, let me grill you for even more details. What terms did he use to describe the processor itself? Did he specifically say 975 or Power5-lite or mention the fab/glue problems with the 970fx, or did he just say "new G5s from IBM" without any knowledge of the codenames? If not, did he seemed surprised that you knew the codenames also?
Dig deep into your memory tman. You are the momentary Belle of the Ball here at AI and no detail is too small.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Wait a minute: an intelligent, well written, lucid, sincere, and dare I say it, believable rumor? Are you sure this is AI?
Well, tman, I'm getting onboard your train, and not just because of the compliments. (You're definitely not 14 at least. The English language weeps for the younger generation.)
So, since I'm now going to believe you, let me grill you for even more details. What terms did he use to describe the processor itself? Did he specifically say 975 or Power5-lite or mention the fab/glue problems with the 970fx, or did he just say "new G5s from IBM" without any knowledge of the codenames? If not, did he seemed surprised that you knew the codenames also?
Dig deep into your memory tman. You are the momentary Belle of the Ball here at AI and no detail is too small.
He specificly referred to the 975 "chipset" in reference to the next generation PM's. What's the difference between the chip and the chipset anyway. I didn't ask- didn't want to look stupid. The new PM's will be desigined around the 975 processor. He did not refer to the power 5 or power 5 derivitave. It is a much more robust (his word-not mine) processor than the 970. He probably would have gone into more technical detail if he was talking to you or Programmer, but I guess he surmised from the conversation that I wasn't too techanially adept. He also told me (I asked this specifically) that the AGP was being replaced with PCIe. That's really the sum and substance of the conversation. Man, what have I gotten myself into? I feel like a nun in a cat house.
Your source's specifics on PCIe give me great hope. Anyone who attended Apple's Motion presentation at NAB was struck by that breakthrough app's reliance on the GPU. Those new realtime, drag and drop, no keyframe necessary Behaviors are all being rendered by the graphics card. I think this very clearly indicates a new push at Apple to treat the GPU as a second (or third) processor.
What people don't appreciate about PCIe is that it isn't merely 16x (as opposed to AGP's 8x), it's 16x in both directions. It can return data to the CPU just as fast as it gets it (AGP is restricted to 1x back to the CPU). This opens up all kinds of Open GL accelerated scenarios that would be impossible with AGP. I believe Motion is just the tip of the iceberg and that we'll see extensive GPU optimization in Tiger. In fact, I expect WWDC to be the coming out party for PCIe and all it can do for Apple's OS and apps.
So, I sure as Hell hope tman's source was telling the truth. A water-cooled, dual 3GHz 975 Power Mac G5 with PCIe native ATi x800 graphics at WWDC?
Splooge!
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
You're the man, tman! Thanks for the greater detail.
Your source's specifics on PCIe give me great hope. Anyone who attended Apple's Motion presentation at NAB was struck by that breakthrough app's reliance on the GPU. Those new realtime, drag and drop, no keyframe necessary Behaviors are all being rendered by the graphics card. I think this very clearly indicates a new push at Apple to treat the GPU as a second (or third) processor.
What people don't appreciate about PCIe is that it isn't merely 16x (as opposed to AGP's 8x), it's 16x in both directions. It can return data to the CPU just as fast as it gets it (AGP is restricted to 1x back to the CPU). This opens up all kinds of Open GL accelerated scenarios that would be impossible with AGP. I believe Motion is just the tip of the iceberg and that we'll see extensive GPU optimization in Tiger. In fact, I expect WWDC to be the coming out party for PCIe and all it can do for Apple's OS and apps.
So, I sure as Hell hope tman's source was telling the truth. A water-cooled, dual 3GHz 975 Power Mac G5 with PCIe native ATi x800 graphics at WWDC?
Splooge!
HAHA
Where did water-cooled come into play though?
Can you go into more detail on PCIe for me??
Whats the numbers of the bandwidth? All I can find is info on PCI-Express... which obviously isn't PCIe... enlighten me.
Originally posted by SeanL
I think the only thing explicitely missing here (after rereading this thread) is if the 975 machines will ship at WWDC, or a little later, or a lot later...
Bet on later for low and mid....
Bet on a lot later for high end....
They will ship 5 high end machines by september 22nd so jobs can be right
Originally posted by emig647
Bet on later for low and mid....
Bet on a lot later for high end....
They will ship 5 high end machines by september 22nd so jobs can be right
This would be no different than what happened with the original G5s last year and we all lived through that.
And for the 1 millionth time, he didn't say "end of summer", he said "within twelve months" which can only be interpreted as 3GHz G5s being at least announced no later than this year's WWDC. At least, that's obviously what he meant at the time.
Originally posted by emig647
Where did water-cooled come into play though?
I just threw that in to complete my dream machine, not that water cooling is out of the question for the new G5s, especially if they're 975 based. I didn't mean to imply tman had relayed that feature from his source.
Originally posted by emig647
Can you go into more detail on PCIe for me??
Whats the numbers of the bandwidth? All I can find is info on PCI-Express... which obviously isn't PCIe... enlighten me.
4GB per second in both directions. It's really the bilateral nature of the data transfer that makes it so compelling. There are probably others on these boards more qualified than I to speak on the merits of PCIe though.
In the meantime here's an article from The Inquirer.
Originally posted by mooseman
....psssh. I think its obvious. Its gonna be a tall slender sexy leather clad Mac.
Your choice, blond. brunette and (my choice) Redhead.