I think this is definitely false info....a 20 inch studio display? Good Lord, that would just be idiotic. Cinema is where Apple is going and a 17 inch model is about as large as I would want to use.
And no, I don't recall anything in the initial report about any release dates other than today ( June 8 ).
These days, 17" displays are as outdated at 15" was two years ago. Doesn't mean they aren't useable, just not anywhere near top of the line.
Think Secret definitely had a disclaimer on Monday that the release date for new G5s might change.
What kind of performance boost do you typically get out of hyperthreading? It certainly can't be anywhere near what you'd get from a true dual chip or dual core.
Lots of variables -- the SMT/HT implementation can vary greatly. Intel's first attempt was lame, but Prescott is better. IBM claims the POWER5 implementation is quite strong. It also depends heavily on the kind of software you are running (which is why both Intel & IBM put in controls to affect how it operates), and the design of the rest of the system. If you have lots of memory latency issues then SMT will probably run each thread at "full" speed. If you are purely computationally bound and your code is perfectly scheduled then your threads will run at less than 50% speed.
SMT is all about making better use of the execution resources you have. If you're already using them perfectly SMT won't do you any good. Most of the time, however, the processors of today are sitting waiting for things. In those cases SMT will help performance significant (in multi-threaded software). Fortunately IBM's POWER5 SMT only increased the core size by 25%. If they apply this to the 970, and double the L2 cache, that will bump the chip to (I estimate) 100 million transistors... compared to a dual core implementation of ~120 million transistors.
I'm very confident that in the future we will see multi-core chips, and I feel that there is a strong likelyhood that these cores will by SMT enabled (at least 2-way). The first step along that path is SMT because its cheaper and makes the most of what you've already got.
Dual core != SMT/HT. In an SMT/HT system the execution resources are shared between the two threads so if they get busy they will slow eachother down. They may also share L1 cache resources. A dual core chip doubles the amount of execution resources and doesn't share them, except (probably) for the L2 cache... which is an advantage because it speeds up communication between the processors.
Now in the POWER5 they have a dual core SMT chip which is a single chip that can run 4 threads at once. Personally I don't think we'll see dual core in the PowerPC lineup just yet, but we very well may see SMT which would let Apple build a system roughly comparable to the Xeon you're talking about. Much faster in floating point & vector processing, I'd expect.
Yes but isn't that the kernel, and processor issues they are sorting out now?
Hyperthreading IS NOT the same as multiple cores in performance. Not even remotely close. It might appear as multiple processors but it isn't.
Later on I might post an article on IBM's multithreading too. For now I'm off to work.
What does it matter what they are now? Like I said previously
"Yes but isn't that the kernel, and processor issues they are sorting out now"
If your talking about right this second that may be the case, but right this second Apple is still using regular 130 nm G5's in the PowerMac anyways.
I'm referring to when Apple, and IBM provide us with a dual core processor powered PowerMac. Don't forget intel is the largest PC CPU manufacturer in the world. They are working on it just like IBM.
I just checked out Apple's web site. The link to the G5 page from the hardware page goes to the new G5. All dual-processor (1.8, 2.0, 2.5), liquid cooled, etc. Still AGP though. This was at 7:45 AM CST.
Alright....purchased a Dual 1.8 in the last 30 days. Is it worth the 15% restocking fee to take it back and get the New Dual 2.0? How much of an improvement will I see? Also....am I seeing that correct, that they don't come standard with an ethernet port? Add another $100? Thanks in advance.
Alright....purchased a Dual 1.8 in the last 30 days. Is it worth the 15% restocking fee to take it back and get the New Dual 2.0? How much of an improvement will I see? Also....am I seeing that correct, that they don't come standard with an ethernet port? Add another $100? Thanks in advance.
No they sell an "extra" gigabit port.
I'm not too sure that it's worth the stocking fee. You should have a better video card in your computer now. The speed difference is neglible. You weren't really hurt by this upgrade. In fact no one really was except for people that just bought a dual 2Ghz
So now with the G4 PowerMacs going bye-bye, the only choice in desktops a consumer has for less than $1999 is an overpriced iMac or a 50-lb. ugly, VW Beetle-looking, eMac.
Man, WWDC better bring a lower priced consumer desktop, AIO or not.
New PowerMacs do not use the logic board pictured in leaked Service Manual photos.
New PowerMacs basically are the same systems except the dual 2.5GHz model with liquid cooling and an ATI 9600xt memory bump to 128Mb, Superdrive at 8x versus old models.
In a year's time?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
I wonder if the leaked photos were from another model? It just doesn't make sense.
New PowerMacs do not use the logic board pictured in leaked Service Manual photos.
New PowerMacs basically are the same systems except the dual 2.5GHz model with liquid cooling and an ATI 9600xt memory bump to 128Mb, Superdrive at 8x versus old models.
In a year's time?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
I wonder if the leaked photos were from another model? It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I noticed that too. There are still eight memory slots (woohoo!!).
Comments
Originally posted by Rhumgod
I think this is definitely false info....a 20 inch studio display? Good Lord, that would just be idiotic. Cinema is where Apple is going and a 17 inch model is about as large as I would want to use.
And no, I don't recall anything in the initial report about any release dates other than today ( June 8 ).
These days, 17" displays are as outdated at 15" was two years ago. Doesn't mean they aren't useable, just not anywhere near top of the line.
Think Secret definitely had a disclaimer on Monday that the release date for new G5s might change.
Originally posted by BRussell
What kind of performance boost do you typically get out of hyperthreading? It certainly can't be anywhere near what you'd get from a true dual chip or dual core.
Lots of variables -- the SMT/HT implementation can vary greatly. Intel's first attempt was lame, but Prescott is better. IBM claims the POWER5 implementation is quite strong. It also depends heavily on the kind of software you are running (which is why both Intel & IBM put in controls to affect how it operates), and the design of the rest of the system. If you have lots of memory latency issues then SMT will probably run each thread at "full" speed. If you are purely computationally bound and your code is perfectly scheduled then your threads will run at less than 50% speed.
SMT is all about making better use of the execution resources you have. If you're already using them perfectly SMT won't do you any good. Most of the time, however, the processors of today are sitting waiting for things. In those cases SMT will help performance significant (in multi-threaded software). Fortunately IBM's POWER5 SMT only increased the core size by 25%. If they apply this to the 970, and double the L2 cache, that will bump the chip to (I estimate) 100 million transistors... compared to a dual core implementation of ~120 million transistors.
I'm very confident that in the future we will see multi-core chips, and I feel that there is a strong likelyhood that these cores will by SMT enabled (at least 2-way). The first step along that path is SMT because its cheaper and makes the most of what you've already got.
Originally posted by Programmer
Wrong!
Dual core != SMT/HT. In an SMT/HT system the execution resources are shared between the two threads so if they get busy they will slow eachother down. They may also share L1 cache resources. A dual core chip doubles the amount of execution resources and doesn't share them, except (probably) for the L2 cache... which is an advantage because it speeds up communication between the processors.
Now in the POWER5 they have a dual core SMT chip which is a single chip that can run 4 threads at once. Personally I don't think we'll see dual core in the PowerPC lineup just yet, but we very well may see SMT which would let Apple build a system roughly comparable to the Xeon you're talking about. Much faster in floating point & vector processing, I'd expect.
Yes but isn't that the kernel, and processor issues they are sorting out now?
Originally posted by onlooker
Xeons are hyperthreaded which is the same freakin thing. They see, and work as 4 processors.
Hyperthreading IS NOT the same as multiple cores in performance. Not even remotely close. It might appear as multiple processors but it isn't.
Later on I might post an article on IBM's multithreading too. For now I'm off to work.
Originally posted by Telomar
Hyperthreading IS NOT the same as multiple cores in performance. Not even remotely close. It might appear as multiple processors but it isn't.
Later on I might post an article on IBM's multithreading too. For now I'm off to work.
What does it matter what they are now? Like I said previously
"Yes but isn't that the kernel, and processor issues they are sorting out now"
If your talking about right this second that may be the case, but right this second Apple is still using regular 130 nm G5's in the PowerMac anyways.
I'm referring to when Apple, and IBM provide us with a dual core processor powered PowerMac. Don't forget intel is the largest PC CPU manufacturer in the world. They are working on it just like IBM.
Liquid cooled Dual 2.5Ghz
http://www.apple.com/hardware/
http://www.apple.com/powermac/
Originally posted by burnsra
Alright....purchased a Dual 1.8 in the last 30 days. Is it worth the 15% restocking fee to take it back and get the New Dual 2.0? How much of an improvement will I see? Also....am I seeing that correct, that they don't come standard with an ethernet port? Add another $100? Thanks in advance.
No they sell an "extra" gigabit port.
I'm not too sure that it's worth the stocking fee. You should have a better video card in your computer now. The speed difference is neglible. You weren't really hurt by this upgrade. In fact no one really was except for people that just bought a dual 2Ghz
Man, WWDC better bring a lower priced consumer desktop, AIO or not.
New PowerMacs do not use the logic board pictured in leaked Service Manual photos.
New PowerMacs basically are the same systems except the dual 2.5GHz model with liquid cooling and an ATI 9600xt memory bump to 128Mb, Superdrive at 8x versus old models.
In a year's time?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
I wonder if the leaked photos were from another model? It just doesn't make sense.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Weirdness:
New PowerMacs do not use the logic board pictured in leaked Service Manual photos.
New PowerMacs basically are the same systems except the dual 2.5GHz model with liquid cooling and an ATI 9600xt memory bump to 128Mb, Superdrive at 8x versus old models.
In a year's time?
Something is rotten in Denmark.
I wonder if the leaked photos were from another model? It just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, I noticed that too. There are still eight memory slots (woohoo!!).
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Weirdness:
New PowerMacs do not use the logic board pictured in leaked Service Manual photos.
I wonder if the leaked photos were from another model? It just doesn't make sense.
Or it confirms what many of us stated categorically... the pictures were fakes.
Motherboard colours were wrong. Told you so. Not a shipping model.
Perhaps Kasper, who kept proclaiming they weren't fakes, will come clean...
if not, might I suggest adding some salt to his hat to improve its flavour.
I think I'm going to order my Alienware system.
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm totally upset, and I await independent testing.
I think I'm going to order my Alienware system.
You really should. This update is absolutely terrible and the top end wont ship for sometime. Apple is only good for portables right now.
This is an early January update at best, releasing this now is a farce, and an overheating, turbo-clocked farce at that.
I guess this is the highest speed 970FX we're going to see.