Terrorists getting their beepbeeps kicked (merged)
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB7NYFT9VD.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in622002.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122242,00.html
Quite handily I might add. Good news IMO.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in622002.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122242,00.html
Quite handily I might add. Good news IMO.
Comments
Originally posted by NaplesX
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB7NYFT9VD.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in622002.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122242,00.html
Quite handily I might add. Good news IMO.
Woo Whooo!!!
Bin Laden is now more popular than ever in Saudi Arabia and we knocked off 120 bad guys. Stop the presses. AQ has recruited an additional 18,000, and we just polished off 120 of them. That's a good ratio I guesst-- 4:600 deaths to recruits.
You can't polish a terd Naples. The war on terror went south when we decided to avert our attention towards Iraq. Our actions since March 03 have increased AQ recruitment and lowered US standing in the region. Sending 120 guys to hell is not going to change things.
Remember we invaded them because they were *harbouring* terrorists i.e. Bin Laden and co. The Taliban were just a repressive theocratic regime (like the Republicans want to be when they grow up).
Interestingly when the media was focused on Afghanistan they never dwelled on the tribal nature of the area and how large groups of 'good guys' had been fighting for the 'bad guys' the day before as various warlords changed sides during the fighting.
I guess reality is just too complicated for some people. Call it a terrorist, kill it and declare yourself a victory, regardless of any actual progress (or lack thereof).
edit: I didn't realise the first story wasn't about the Taliban, the above only realy applies to the other stories.
The State Department is scrambling to revise its annual report on global terrorism to acknowledge that it understated the number of deadly attacks in 2003, amid charges that the document is inaccurate and was politically manipulated by the Bush administration.
When the most recent "Patterns of Global Terrorism" report was issued April 29, senior Bush administration officials immediately hailed it as objective proof that they were winning the war on terrorism. The report is considered the authoritative yardstick of the prevalence of terrorist activity around the world.
"Indeed, you will find in these pages clear evidence that we are prevailing in the fight" against global terrorism, Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said during a celebratory rollout of the report.
But on Tuesday, State Department officials said they underreported the number of terrorist attacks in the tally for 2003, and added that they expected to release an updated version soon.
Several U.S. officials and terrorism experts familiar with that revision effort said the new report will show that the number of significant terrorist incidents increased last year, perhaps to its highest level in 20 years.
Originally posted by faust9
Woo Whooo!!!
Bin Laden is now more popular than ever in Saudi Arabia and we knocked off 120 bad guys. Stop the presses. AQ has recruited an additional 18,000, and we just polished off 120 of them. That's a good ratio I guesst-- 4:600 deaths to recruits.
You can't polish a terd Naples. The war on terror went south when we decided to avert our attention towards Iraq. Our actions since March 03 have increased AQ recruitment and lowered US standing in the region. Sending 120 guys to hell is not going to change things.
I have never understood this logic. Actually, let me correct that...I understand perfectly. I simply think it's misguided and intellectually dishonest. First of all, can you prove your claim of 18,000 AQ? Can you prove that invading has increased recruitment at ALL? I thought not. You're basing your claims on nothing but supposition.
Secondly, do you really believe that AQ recruitment would be lower if we had not invaded Iraq? What would you like to do..."win hearts and minds?". You don't understand. AQ and like minded groups hate and want to destroy the western civilized world. That fact cannot be changed. To quote one of its own members: "You love life. We love death". How can that be negotiated with? It cannot. The only solution is to hunt and kill terrorists across the globe. Right now, the US military is fighting terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and elswhere. Would you like to fight them in the streets of Manhattan instead?
SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?
Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?
Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.
Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.
Originally posted by Gilsch
SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?
Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?
Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.
Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.
I am positive they have some reason. I will never understand it, nor want to. Nevertheless, it's a reason.
I can go along with most of what you say. I will inject that winning of hearts and minds is not always done by throwing fig leaves at the enemy. It is accomplished sometimes by inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking. The defeat of Japan and also the Soviet Union show this to an extent.
There are a lot of factors and tactics that go into it, that's what I am saying.
Originally posted by Gilsch
SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?
Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?
Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.
Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.
And let's not shit each other either. HOW would you "win hearts and minds?" Secondly, we ARE killing the leadership and going after financing. And yes, of course I would dismiss a statement by a terrorist group. Wouldn't you?
Originally posted by NaplesX
inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking.
Ah yes... bring on the Thought Police!
Perhaps penalties should be inflicted for improper ACTIONS, but for THINKING?
Originally posted by SDW2001
And let's not shit each other either. HOW would you "win hearts and minds?"
You are no expert, and I am no expert. I doubt ay answer besides "let's nuke 'em" would satisfy you.
A good start would be to rebuild Iraq and let them choose their own government.
Then we could put serious pressure on the Israelis and Paletinians to find a satisfactory solution.
Maybe even developing and quickly adopting alternatives to oil could diminish terrorism from that area. Less money, less influence, less military presence.
Secondly, we ARE killing the leadership and going after financing.
Re: the financing. BS. To what extent? Like the "war on drugs"? The idiots who Bush likes to hold hands with come from a country well known to finance terrorism. Who knows, they may even be secretly funding them.
And yes, of course I would dismiss a statement by a terrorist group. Wouldn't you?
Yeah, well you didn't dismiss that comment from the terrorist you "quoted"...which was my whole point.
Naples said: I will inject that winning of hearts and minds is not always done by throwing fig leaves at the enemy. It is accomplished sometimes by inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking.
Fig leaves? "Incorrect thinking"? WhatThebeepbeep? 1984 Extreme? Big Bro On Steroids?
The defeat of Japan and also the Soviet Union show this to an extent.
are you calling a world war...."incorrect thinking"? Awfully simplistic.
There are a lot of factors and tactics that go into it, that's what I am saying.Edit:
We can agree there. We have got to pursue other non-violent ways aswell as the ones mentioned before. Violence always brings more violence. That's not news.
They know it won't be pretty and he's not a shoe in.
I can't wait for November so we can stop this nonsense we've been putting up with for 4 years.
Originally posted by jimmac
I can't wait for November so we can stop this nonsense we've been putting up with for 4 years.
Yup. And get on with a whole nother kind of nonsense!
List of terrorists list to whether they are at large, captured or killed; By name, function and status.
SHURA MAJLIS
\t
These are the first-tier guys and the actual members of al-Qaeda's board of directors. Any one of them is a possible successor to Osama bin Laden.
Osama bin Laden
Emir-General
Possibly killed at Tora Bora in Dec. 2001, now believed to be at large
Ayman al-Zawahiri
Second-in-Command/Egyptian Islamic Jihad Emir-General
At Large
Mohammed Atef
Supreme Military Commander
Dead
Abu Zubaydah
Global Operations Chief
Apprehended
Rifa Ahmed Taha
Gamaa al-Islamiyyah Secretary-General
At Large
Thirwat Salah Shirhata
Egyptian Islamic Jihad Deputy Emir
At Large
Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri
Middle East Operations Chief
Apprehended
Abu Musab Zarqawi
Former Southeast Asian Operations Chief, currently Global Operations Chief
At Large
Abu Zubair al-Haili
North African Operations Chief
Apprehended
Tawfiq Attash Khallad
South Asian Operations Chief
At Large
Abu Mohammed al-Masri *
East African Operations Chief
At Large
Zaid Khayr
Unknown
At Large
Mohammed Salah
Senior Explosive Expert, Central African Operations Chief \t
Dead
Tariq Anwar al-Sayyid Ahmad
Balkans Operations Chief
Dead
Saif al-Adel **
Former second-in-command of al-Qaeda's military, currently Supreme Military Commander
At Large
Amin al-Haq
Shura Majlis Security Chief
At Large
Abu Hafs the Mauritanian (aka "Mr. Mauritania")
Theologian
Formerly believed dead, now believed to be at large
TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP COMMANDERS
These are the guys who supervise the training, indoctrination, and assignment of al-Qaeda operatives worldwide. They also seperate all recruits into four categories: mujahideen (foot soldiers), shahideen (suicide bombers), takfiri (sleepers), and ansar (support personnel). Each category has its own version of the "Afghan Guide to Jihad," al-Qaeda's training manual (all four versions combined are roughly 3,000 pages in length) that provides instruction to recruits for just about any situation imaginable.
Sheikh Ibn al-Liby
Terrorist Training Camp Commander
Apprehended
Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi
Terrorist Training Camp Commander
Apprehended
Omar Bandon
Terrorist Training Camp Commander
At Large
THE FINANCIAL COMMITTEE
This is the committee that oversees al-Qaeda's legitimate and illegitimate businesses, charities, drug smuggling, ect. The top ten al-Qaeda donors have all been named by both the UN and the families of 9/11 victims as being the major financiers of al-Qaeda and remain at large
Sheikh Saeed (Mustafa Ahmed al-Hisawi?)
Head of the Financial Committee
Apprehended
Mohammed Jamal Khalifa
Financier and envoy to the Saudi Bin Laden Group
At Large
Abu Jafar al-Jaziri
Financier
Dead
Abu Salah al-Yemeni
Financier
Dead
Abdul Rahim Riyadh
Financier
Apprehended
Ahmed Saeed al-Kadr
Financier
At Large
Hamza al-Qatari
Financier
Dead
MEDIA COMMITTEE
This the group that manages and updates the websites, oversees the E-Jihad, and is responsible for all statements by the al-Qaeda leadership. Not a lot of declassified info on this one as far as names go.
Suleiman Abu Ghaith
Spokesman
At Large
Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri
Spokesman/Recruiter
At Large
Sheikh Omar al-Bakri
Spokesman
At Large
Sheikh Abu Qatada al-Philisteeni
Spokesman
Apprehended
WMD COMMITTEE
Al-Qaeda employs a number of Muslim scientists of various nationalities to assist it in procuring as well as manufacturing the necessary materials to create chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons.
Midhat Mursi
Top scientist for nuclear weapons research
At Large
Abu Khabab
Biological and chemical weapons expert
At Large
Assadalah Abdul Rahman
Weapons of Mass Destruction Chief
At Large
Abu Bashir al-Yemeni
Unknown
At Large
MILITARY COMMITTEE
These are the definite guys to watch out for. Most have a great deal of combat experience either from serving in Arab militaries or else from fighting in Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, or the Philippines.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Martyrdom Battalion Commander-in-Chief
Apprehended
Abd al-Aziz al-Jamal
Unknown
At Large
Bilal bin Marwan
Arabian Sea Commander-in-Chief
At Large
Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi
Yemen Commander-in-Chief
Dead
Mohsen al-Fadli
Kuwait Commander-in-Chief
Apprehended
Essid Sami ben Khemais
Southern Europe Commander-in-Chief
Apprehended
Saqar al-Jadawi
Unknown
At Large
Mohammed Omar Abdel Rahman
Military Commander
Apprehended
Ahmed Omar Abdel Rahman
Military Commander
Apprehended
Abu Walid
Military Commander
At Large
Abdel Hari al-Iraqi
Afghanistan Commander-in-Chief
At Large
Abu Leith al-Lybi
Algeria/Libya Commander-in-Chief
At Large
Shamil Basayev
Chechnya Commander-in-Chief
At Large
Amir ibn al-Khattab
Dagestan Commander-in-Chief
Dead
Hanbali
Indonesia Commander-in-Chief
At Large
Imam Samudra
Java Commander-in-Chief
Apprehended
Mas Selamat Kastari
Singapore Commander-in-Chief
Apprehended
Current Tally:
Dead=8
Apprehended=15
At Large=29
Others
These are non-leader Al Qaeda members who are on the FBI most wanted list or have, in some way, come to attention..
Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Sheik Mohammed Al Hasan Al-Moayad
Financier / Cleric
Apprehended
Mohammed Mohsen Yahya Zayed
Financier / Cleric
Apprehended
Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser
Khobar Towers Bomber
At Large
Muhsin Musa Matwalli Atwah
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ali Atwa
Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker
At Large
Hasan Izz-Al-Din
Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker
At Large
Anas Al-Liby
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Fazul Abdullah Mohammed
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Imad Fayez Mugniyah
Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker
At Large
Mustafa Mohamed Fadhil
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Abdul Rahman Yasin
1993 WTC Bombing
At Large
Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ahmad Ibrahim Al-Mughassil
Khobar Towers Bomber
At Large
Muhammad Atef
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ali Saed Bin Ali El-Hoorie
Khobar Towers Bomber
At Large
Saif Al-Adel
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub
African Embassy Bomber
At Large
Current Tally:
*Note: There has been some contradictory information as to the status of this individual. Abu Mohammed al-Masri is a nom de guerre, hence one should not confuse him with the al-Qaeda functionary of the same name who was recently killed in Algeria working with the GSPC. Mossad reportedly had intelligence that al-Masri might have been one of the suicide bombers involved in the al-Qaeda attack in Mombasa, but near as I can tell the findings were not corroborated
**Note: Per Knight Ridder, he may have been captured along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. If this is indeed true it would be exceedingly good news.
Terrorist Network Map
(Active Terrorist Cells in U.S.)
...kinda old and we have plucked a few more. But think of the scale of this network. It is a world wide network and with fresh recruits breeding everywhere. Take down the schools and camps and maybe this could even out the score. We are definately not there yet...and sure as hell aren't "handily" there yet...
Originally posted by midwinter
Yup. And get on with a whole nother kind of nonsense!
Yes but the point is this kind of nonsense ( the kind we have currently ) could do irreparable harm. Kerry will be another politician I'm sure. But he won't be dangerously bad like what we have now!
It's like the old saying where if they want the job they're probably wrong for it.
If you're a Nader supporter he has no chance of getting us out of our current dilemma. Right now things are bad but without a second term to win what do you think GB will be like in the next 4 years?
Originally posted by jimmac
Yes but the point is this kind of nonsense ( the kind we have currently ) could do irreparable harm. Kerry will be another politician I'm sure. But he won't be dangerously bad like what we have now!
It's like the old saying where if they want the job they're probably wrong for it.
If you're a Nader supporter he has no chance of getting us out of our current dilemma. Right now things are bad but without a second term to win what do you think GB will be like in the next 4 years?
I know, I know. I was just making a joke about how Republians can cause just as much turmoil in office (Bush) as then can when they're not in office (e.g. treating Clinton as an enemy of the state)
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by midwinter
I know, I know. I was just making a joke about how Republians can cause just as much turmoil in office (Bush) as then can when they're not in office (e.g. treating Clinton as an enemy of the state)
Cheers
Scott
Ahh!
Tonton created a new thread, but I think his post is directly releated to what is already being discussed (or was being discussed) here. Hopefully this will refocus the thread and avoid too much double-posting and cross-over from one thread to the other.
[/carry on]
Originally posted by tonton
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/10/pow...ort/index.html
Bush admin officials (Armitage and Black): "Look! Terrorism was reduced in 2003! That means the war on terror is working! Look!!!"
(Psst... actually, your data was wrong. There was actually a sharp increase in terrorism in 2003.)
Reporters: "Does that mean the war on terror is not working?"
Powell: "No one has suggested that the war on terror has been won."
Answer the freaking question, Colin, you pusswat.
The question was, "Does that mean the war on terror is not working?", not "Does that mean the war on terror has not been won?"
How could it be won the way they are going about it?
Like I've said before it's very similar to the war on drugs back in the 80's ( and we've seen how effective that was ).
It makes some money for certain people, makes it look like you're doing something about the problem ( for people who aren't paying attention ), and leaves you free to follow your other real agendas ( what ever they might be ).