LCD's are light, why put them on unflexible stands remicient of the big heavy unmovable CRTs? Any LCD display 20" or less should have very movable displays, it's just logical. Oh well, less than 36 hours to wait...
I wonder why the iMac isn't totally mobile for the very same reason.
Eventually isn't it going to get to the point where the Imac is going to become a laptop?
I wonder why the computer isn't totally mobile for the very same reason.
Eventually isn't it going to get to the point where the Imac is going to become a laptop?
Why not now?
Even if the iMac's motherboards always have been as small as laptops, the rest of the computer, HD's, videocard are not. Miniaturisation has a price and the componements in iBooks are less powerfull than in their iMac equivalent, so why impose too much miniaturisation on something that is sitting on a desk? It's only inflating prices. There is a balance to reach between the PowerMac G5 size and weight and the portable iBook, and that's where the next iMac will stand.
Since we are talking about a G5 iMac, Apple said that there won't be G5's in notebooks this year. (they didn't say the same for the iMac, they said "That would be heck of a challenge" and we know now he wanted to say "will")
If you want an iBook, buy an iBook,don't ask the iMac to become one
Maybe you are talking about something different like a new "paradigm"... we'll see tomorrow.
You are right about the size VL-Tone. That is why I think there will be some kind of base vs. everything on the backside of the monitor.
I think it will be hard to look at the new iMac if it doesn't appear in part to look like a thin screen after seeing the old/extinct version for so long.
BTW. Something that would keep me from buying a PM is just how big they have become. I will never get used to its enormity.
So what you are saying is that Apple should drop the iMac line, and offer a new battery-less iBook called iMac?
Remember the cube? It put miniaturisation ahead of price and features. Mac Users don't expect to pay a premium over the already existing premium they have to pay for a desktop machine just to make that small.
There are already battery-less P4 laptops and I don't see them becoming popular in any way.
The problem with putting a G5 in a laptop is not so much the power consumption, it's the heat concentration.
Portable computers will always have like 30%-50% less features and power for the same price as a desktop, no matter how fast technology improve. You can simply fit more in a bigger computer.
Desktop personnal computers didn't really get smaller over the years if you don't take the screen into account. Actually in average I would say that they increased in size compared to the Apple II days.
Desktop personnal computers didn't really get smaller over the years if you don't take the screen into account. Actually in average I would say that they increased in size compared to the Apple II days.
So do you believe the new iMac is going to be bigger than the old one? Not counting screen size, but computer mass.
Quote:
So what you are saying is that Apple should drop the iMac line, and offer a new battery-less iBook called iMac?
No. I'm saying that eventually the iMac will get so small it will need to be designed to be mobile because people are going to want to move around with it.
Whether it is a tablet or a laptop design.. or a wearable computer.
I think you are confusing form factor with function... that is a narrow viewpoint.
So do you believe the new iMac is going to be bigger than the old one? Not counting screen size, but computer mass.
Well it actually may be true, the G5 needs a big heatsink. If it's smaller, It wont be by much. Note that my design iMac has a base that is too big, I realised afterward.
Quote:
No. I'm saying that eventually the iMac will get so small it will need to be designed to be mobile because people are going to want to move around with it.
Whether it is a tablet or a laptop design.. or a wearable computer.
I think you are confusing form factor with function... that is a narrow viewpoint.
The iMac got smaller with each revision until now it's true, but there is a point where the form factor impedes it's function, I'm not confusing the terms.
Tell me, why the iMac would continue to get smaller? If it got the size of an atom, would you still think it would get smaller?
Could you explain why they should do a different laptop design for home use? What would be different in a home laptop? My point is, that mobile Macs already exists and they have another name than iMac. As for a wearable computer, I really like the idea, and Apple may be one of the first to bring it to consumers in the long term future (when you think of it, the iPod is actually a wearable computer), but if they can put a Mac in an iPod mini size device, in means that they could do a 50x more powerfull non mobile desk version for the same price that would only take a few square inches of your desk and that is the one that will still be called an iMac. As for a tablet computer, there is no keyboard it... Even with 100% accurate voice and writing recognition, most people will never consider buying one, if Apple ever comes out with a tablet computer, it wont be called an iMac.
Like I said, form and function are not the same, but they are interrelated, one can limit the other.
Well it actually may be true, the G5 needs a big heatsink. If it's smaller, It wont be by much. Note that my design iMac has a base that is too big, I realised afterward.
Since they are moving to an aluminum case the entire body of the iMac will be a heatsink.
Quote:
The iMac got smaller with each revision until now it's true, but there is a point where the form factor impedes it's function, I'm not confusing the terms.
Tell me, why the iMac would continue to get smaller? If it got the size of an atom, would you still think it would get smaller?
Is this a joke? Consider how dramatically computers have shrunk in size and skyrocketed in performance I don't expect that to slow down any time in the near future.
Especially considering that we may be getting very close to the point where people don't need much more performance.
So if the demand for power decreases and performance boost increase and efficiency in power usage increases.. we could see computers continue to shrink dramatically.
Quote:
Could you explain why they should do a different laptop design for home use? What would be different in a home laptop? My point is, that mobile Macs already exists and they have another name than iMac.
You said it yourself. Powerbooks are made to be as samll as possible. You are paying for that extra engineering. We will reach a point where these 2 things will merge IMO. That could be the wearable computer --
Quote:
As for a wearable computer, I really like the idea, and Apple may be one of the first to bring it to consumers in the long term future (when you think of it, the iPod is actually a wearable computer), but if they can put a Mac in an iPod mini size device, in means that they could do a 50x more powerfull non mobile desk version for the same price that would only take a few square inches of your desk and that is the one that will still be called an iMac.
This is my point though -- about a decrease in demand for an increase in performance. Does the average person need the 50x Imac/Ipod? Does the iMac user today need a powermac? Or do they get all they need from the iMac?
Quote:
As for a tablet computer, there is no keyboard it... Even with 100% accurate voice and writing recognition, most people will never consider buying one, if Apple ever comes out with a tablet computer, it wont be called an iMac.
I totally disagree with this. Just because you have voice and handwriting recognition doesn't mean you can't use a keyboard... and vice versa.
Quote:
Like I said, form and function are not the same, but they are interrelated, one can limit the other.
Since they are moving to an aluminum case the entire body of the iMac will be a heatsink.
So this mobile computer case would get hot? Could be usefull in the winter...
Quote:
Is this a joke? Consider how dramatically computers have shrunk in size and skyrocketed in performance I don't expect that to slow down any time in the near future.
I said Desktop computer. The average computer is a big beige box while Desktop PCs 20 years ago were mostly computers in a keyboard. I'm fully aware of the advances made in computing speeds, and all things relative, transistors are getting incredibly smaller than they were 20 years ago. But we are talking about the actual size of the computer. The first computer I had in 1984 when I was 10 was a Timex Sinclair 1000 (ZX81), with 2k of standard RAM with the 16k extension, and running a Z80 at like 0.3 Mhz. This thing was physically smaller than just about any "desktop" computer of the time and smaller than any computer Apple ever produced. Sure I could lug it around easily from one room to the other with one hand, but I would sure have liked having a non portable more powerfull computer.
Quote:
Especially considering that we may be getting very close to the point where people don't need much more performance.
I used to think that 10 years ago, but boy I was wrong.
We dont have any idea of the kinds of things that will be done with more powerfull computers. My guess is that programmers will always push the enveloppe and create compeling new things only possible on more powerfull computers.
Quote:
So if the demand for power decreases and performance boost increase and efficiency in power usage increases.. we could see computers continue to shrink dramatically.
The demand for power wont decrease overall I would venture to predict, maybe some crisis here and there affecting the whole industry, desktops and laptops, but I have a feeling that the computer industry will always find new ways to get us to buy more powerfull computers. Anyway most of my arguments apply to chip using metal as conductors and magnetic disk for storage, when we finally get rid of hard disks and switch processor to photonic, nanotech or quantum computers, things will change dramatically, the desktop iMac will get smaller.... And you'll be right. I'll see it when it happens, but it's not tomorrow. It's like electric cars.
Quote:
You said it yourself. Powerbooks are made to be as samll as possible. You are paying for that extra engineering. We will reach a point where these 2 things will merge IMO. That could be the wearable computer --
Your whole premise is based on the idea that the majority of people will end up being content with processor power and that mobility would become the only interesting feature. I dont think it will happen so again, I would love a 1 inch cube as powerfull as the iMac G5, but if I can have a G8 for the same price that is non portable, I'll choose the G8 because it will play the latest SpiderMan trailer in volumetric immersive video.
Quote:
This is my point though -- about a decrease in demand for an increase in performance. Does the average person need the 50x Imac/Ipod? Does the iMac user today need a powermac? Or do they get all they need from the iMac?
Most of today's iMac users don't need a Powermac because the current OS X consumer applications are built with iMac users in mind. With the release of the G5 iMac, be prepared to a slew of new consumer applications that will need power (and I'm not specifically talking about the 64-bit aspect). Kids raised today with Ghz computers will eventually crave for more speed and new "better than your dad's application". Do they really need it? Do we really need computers anyway? Weither it's a good thing or not, weither they "really" need it or not, my point is that people will continue to want it. The iPod is also a different beast it has a simple use: it's a portable iTunes, 10,000 songs will always be more than enough for most people, the iPod will continue to decrease in size and eventually the base price will drop too.
Quote:
I totally disagree with this. Just because you have voice and handwriting recognition doesn't mean you can't use a keyboard... and vice versa.
I forgot about all those tablet computers with keyboards... Ok then it could be a tablet computer with a keyboard acting as a dock? Hmmm that could be interesting... Really interesting, but I just dont see the iMac becoming this for the reasons I keep repeating. (hmmm that was an easy way out...)
Quote:
I choose freedom.
You sound like Rob Glaser (sorry!) Most people want the computer to be a thing that they can leave home or on their working desk and that's freedom for them. If for you freedom is being linked to your computer even when you are walking then cool for you. While I would love it myself, I don't see it replacing my desktop computer and I think it's the same thing for most computer users.
Anyway I understand your point in a way, I think it would be better if at one point we would stop craving for more speed and instead chose other features, and I love wearable computer myself but I dont think it will replace the desktop. The pros get the machines, they do tons of cool programs and stuff with it, and then we want to have the machines to run those same programs and the cycle repeat with each new generation. Don't worry, the pros wont run out of imagination to make most people want faster computers...
Another thing we have not discussed is the possibility that you won't have to actually carry the computer to use it.
A wireless monitor that had a huge amount of bandwidth and zero latency would make all my dreams come true... and something far less than that could do it for me now as well.
Yes a wireless screen will be cool, someday, not now.
Anyway look at my "improved" design... well the base is much smaller and it got double jointed arm to elevate the screen so you can rotate it without having the bottom too close to the vents and cd drive.
I have been saying that we need more mockups. Well, I am here to put my money where my mouth is.
Anyways, this mockup is pure speculation. It has all of the processor, RAM, AirPort Extreme, etc behind the monitor. The optical drive is in the front, the USB, Firewire, and mirroring display adapter is on the right-hand side. The modem, ethernet, and sound out/in ports are on the left hand side (not shown).
Front
Right Side
If anyone would like to make some touchups to it, please PM me.
Thanks!!
Congratulations on your mockup. Not bad for your first. I just looked through them all again and you did the best.
Here are the back and side views of my model, above:
You can see the ventilation slots in the top and bottom of the chassis in the back view. Side view shows double-hinged support arm in two positions. Although I'm showing the chassis in plastic, it may well be metal.
I also like the idea of a separate CPU (headless iMac).
P.S. The reason for the elongated shadow in the original image above is because the light was too close. I moved it up in these shots.
Here are the back and side views of my model, above:
You can see the ventilation slots in the top and bottom of the chassis in the back view. Side view shows double-hinged support arm in two positions. Although I'm showing the chassis in plastic, it may well be metal.
Wow, my mockups from July 18 were pretty close. I got the base wrong and the speaker position.
Comments
The rotation SW only works in OS9 and Windows though
LCD's are light, why put them on unflexible stands remicient of the big heavy unmovable CRTs? Any LCD display 20" or less should have very movable displays, it's just logical. Oh well, less than 36 hours to wait...
I wonder why the iMac isn't totally mobile for the very same reason.
Eventually isn't it going to get to the point where the Imac is going to become a laptop?
Why not now?
It's a hoax, it's actually a Samsung monitor , a black piece of wood, and a door knob for the pivoting, in a LaCie scanner box?
Oh well I guess I should have ignored him...
Originally posted by ArticulatedArm
I wonder why the computer isn't totally mobile for the very same reason.
Eventually isn't it going to get to the point where the Imac is going to become a laptop?
Why not now?
Even if the iMac's motherboards always have been as small as laptops, the rest of the computer, HD's, videocard are not. Miniaturisation has a price and the componements in iBooks are less powerfull than in their iMac equivalent, so why impose too much miniaturisation on something that is sitting on a desk? It's only inflating prices. There is a balance to reach between the PowerMac G5 size and weight and the portable iBook, and that's where the next iMac will stand.
Since we are talking about a G5 iMac, Apple said that there won't be G5's in notebooks this year. (they didn't say the same for the iMac, they said "That would be heck of a challenge" and we know now he wanted to say "will")
If you want an iBook, buy an iBook,don't ask the iMac to become one
Maybe you are talking about something different like a new "paradigm"... we'll see tomorrow.
VL-Tone
[OII II III II III]
I think it will be hard to look at the new iMac if it doesn't appear in part to look like a thin screen after seeing the old/extinct version for so long.
BTW. Something that would keep me from buying a PM is just how big they have become. I will never get used to its enormity.
If you want an iBook, buy an iBook,don't ask the iMac to become one
My point is that it will eventually become one. Laptops were much bigger and heavier years ago... that didn't stop us from using them.
By this same logic... why not make the iMac mobile? Or... at what point will the Imac become small enough to become mobile?
I think this would help differentiate the iMac from the powermac.
What if the iMac was corded and yet mobile. Like a telephone. This way you don't have to deal with batteries and yet it is still mobile.
This way it differentiates you from Powermacs and powerbooks.
Remember the cube? It put miniaturisation ahead of price and features. Mac Users don't expect to pay a premium over the already existing premium they have to pay for a desktop machine just to make that small.
There are already battery-less P4 laptops and I don't see them becoming popular in any way.
The problem with putting a G5 in a laptop is not so much the power consumption, it's the heat concentration.
Portable computers will always have like 30%-50% less features and power for the same price as a desktop, no matter how fast technology improve. You can simply fit more in a bigger computer.
Desktop personnal computers didn't really get smaller over the years if you don't take the screen into account. Actually in average I would say that they increased in size compared to the Apple II days.
VL-Tone
[O II II III II III]
Desktop personnal computers didn't really get smaller over the years if you don't take the screen into account. Actually in average I would say that they increased in size compared to the Apple II days.
So do you believe the new iMac is going to be bigger than the old one? Not counting screen size, but computer mass.
So what you are saying is that Apple should drop the iMac line, and offer a new battery-less iBook called iMac?
No. I'm saying that eventually the iMac will get so small it will need to be designed to be mobile because people are going to want to move around with it.
Whether it is a tablet or a laptop design.. or a wearable computer.
I think you are confusing form factor with function... that is a narrow viewpoint.
Originally posted by ArticulatedArm
So do you believe the new iMac is going to be bigger than the old one? Not counting screen size, but computer mass.
Well it actually may be true, the G5 needs a big heatsink. If it's smaller, It wont be by much. Note that my design iMac has a base that is too big, I realised afterward.
No. I'm saying that eventually the iMac will get so small it will need to be designed to be mobile because people are going to want to move around with it.
Whether it is a tablet or a laptop design.. or a wearable computer.
I think you are confusing form factor with function... that is a narrow viewpoint.
The iMac got smaller with each revision until now it's true, but there is a point where the form factor impedes it's function, I'm not confusing the terms.
Tell me, why the iMac would continue to get smaller? If it got the size of an atom, would you still think it would get smaller?
Could you explain why they should do a different laptop design for home use? What would be different in a home laptop? My point is, that mobile Macs already exists and they have another name than iMac. As for a wearable computer, I really like the idea, and Apple may be one of the first to bring it to consumers in the long term future (when you think of it, the iPod is actually a wearable computer), but if they can put a Mac in an iPod mini size device, in means that they could do a 50x more powerfull non mobile desk version for the same price that would only take a few square inches of your desk and that is the one that will still be called an iMac. As for a tablet computer, there is no keyboard it... Even with 100% accurate voice and writing recognition, most people will never consider buying one, if Apple ever comes out with a tablet computer, it wont be called an iMac.
Like I said, form and function are not the same, but they are interrelated, one can limit the other.
Well it actually may be true, the G5 needs a big heatsink. If it's smaller, It wont be by much. Note that my design iMac has a base that is too big, I realised afterward.
Since they are moving to an aluminum case the entire body of the iMac will be a heatsink.
The iMac got smaller with each revision until now it's true, but there is a point where the form factor impedes it's function, I'm not confusing the terms.
Tell me, why the iMac would continue to get smaller? If it got the size of an atom, would you still think it would get smaller?
Is this a joke? Consider how dramatically computers have shrunk in size and skyrocketed in performance I don't expect that to slow down any time in the near future.
Especially considering that we may be getting very close to the point where people don't need much more performance.
So if the demand for power decreases and performance boost increase and efficiency in power usage increases.. we could see computers continue to shrink dramatically.
Could you explain why they should do a different laptop design for home use? What would be different in a home laptop? My point is, that mobile Macs already exists and they have another name than iMac.
You said it yourself. Powerbooks are made to be as samll as possible. You are paying for that extra engineering. We will reach a point where these 2 things will merge IMO. That could be the wearable computer --
As for a wearable computer, I really like the idea, and Apple may be one of the first to bring it to consumers in the long term future (when you think of it, the iPod is actually a wearable computer), but if they can put a Mac in an iPod mini size device, in means that they could do a 50x more powerfull non mobile desk version for the same price that would only take a few square inches of your desk and that is the one that will still be called an iMac.
This is my point though -- about a decrease in demand for an increase in performance. Does the average person need the 50x Imac/Ipod? Does the iMac user today need a powermac? Or do they get all they need from the iMac?
As for a tablet computer, there is no keyboard it... Even with 100% accurate voice and writing recognition, most people will never consider buying one, if Apple ever comes out with a tablet computer, it wont be called an iMac.
I totally disagree with this. Just because you have voice and handwriting recognition doesn't mean you can't use a keyboard... and vice versa.
Like I said, form and function are not the same, but they are interrelated, one can limit the other.
I choose freedom.
Originally posted by ArticulatedArm
Since they are moving to an aluminum case the entire body of the iMac will be a heatsink.
So this mobile computer case would get hot? Could be usefull in the winter...
Is this a joke? Consider how dramatically computers have shrunk in size and skyrocketed in performance I don't expect that to slow down any time in the near future.
I said Desktop computer. The average computer is a big beige box while Desktop PCs 20 years ago were mostly computers in a keyboard. I'm fully aware of the advances made in computing speeds, and all things relative, transistors are getting incredibly smaller than they were 20 years ago. But we are talking about the actual size of the computer. The first computer I had in 1984 when I was 10 was a Timex Sinclair 1000 (ZX81), with 2k of standard RAM with the 16k extension, and running a Z80 at like 0.3 Mhz. This thing was physically smaller than just about any "desktop" computer of the time and smaller than any computer Apple ever produced. Sure I could lug it around easily from one room to the other with one hand, but I would sure have liked having a non portable more powerfull computer.
Especially considering that we may be getting very close to the point where people don't need much more performance.
I used to think that 10 years ago, but boy I was wrong.
We dont have any idea of the kinds of things that will be done with more powerfull computers. My guess is that programmers will always push the enveloppe and create compeling new things only possible on more powerfull computers.
So if the demand for power decreases and performance boost increase and efficiency in power usage increases.. we could see computers continue to shrink dramatically.
The demand for power wont decrease overall I would venture to predict, maybe some crisis here and there affecting the whole industry, desktops and laptops, but I have a feeling that the computer industry will always find new ways to get us to buy more powerfull computers. Anyway most of my arguments apply to chip using metal as conductors and magnetic disk for storage, when we finally get rid of hard disks and switch processor to photonic, nanotech or quantum computers, things will change dramatically, the desktop iMac will get smaller.... And you'll be right. I'll see it when it happens, but it's not tomorrow. It's like electric cars.
You said it yourself. Powerbooks are made to be as samll as possible. You are paying for that extra engineering. We will reach a point where these 2 things will merge IMO. That could be the wearable computer --
Your whole premise is based on the idea that the majority of people will end up being content with processor power and that mobility would become the only interesting feature. I dont think it will happen so again, I would love a 1 inch cube as powerfull as the iMac G5, but if I can have a G8 for the same price that is non portable, I'll choose the G8 because it will play the latest SpiderMan trailer in volumetric immersive video.
This is my point though -- about a decrease in demand for an increase in performance. Does the average person need the 50x Imac/Ipod? Does the iMac user today need a powermac? Or do they get all they need from the iMac?
Most of today's iMac users don't need a Powermac because the current OS X consumer applications are built with iMac users in mind. With the release of the G5 iMac, be prepared to a slew of new consumer applications that will need power (and I'm not specifically talking about the 64-bit aspect). Kids raised today with Ghz computers will eventually crave for more speed and new "better than your dad's application". Do they really need it? Do we really need computers anyway? Weither it's a good thing or not, weither they "really" need it or not, my point is that people will continue to want it. The iPod is also a different beast it has a simple use: it's a portable iTunes, 10,000 songs will always be more than enough for most people, the iPod will continue to decrease in size and eventually the base price will drop too.
I totally disagree with this. Just because you have voice and handwriting recognition doesn't mean you can't use a keyboard... and vice versa.
I forgot about all those tablet computers with keyboards...
I choose freedom.
You sound like Rob Glaser (sorry!)
Anyway I understand your point in a way, I think it would be better if at one point we would stop craving for more speed and instead chose other features, and I love wearable computer myself but I dont think it will replace the desktop. The pros get the machines, they do tons of cool programs and stuff with it, and then we want to have the machines to run those same programs and the cycle repeat with each new generation. Don't worry, the pros wont run out of imagination to make most people want faster computers...
Oh well I used too much words...
A wireless monitor that had a huge amount of bandwidth and zero latency would make all my dreams come true... and something far less than that could do it for me now as well.
Anyway look at my "improved" design... well the base is much smaller and it got double jointed arm to elevate the screen so you can rotate it without having the bottom too close to the vents and cd drive.
Here is a larger view.
VL-Tone
[OII II III II III]
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
Ok, I am a mockup virgin....
I have been saying that we need more mockups. Well, I am here to put my money where my mouth is.
Anyways, this mockup is pure speculation. It has all of the processor, RAM, AirPort Extreme, etc behind the monitor. The optical drive is in the front, the USB, Firewire, and mirroring display adapter is on the right-hand side. The modem, ethernet, and sound out/in ports are on the left hand side (not shown).
Front
Right Side
If anyone would like to make some touchups to it, please PM me.
Thanks!!
Congratulations on your mockup. Not bad for your first. I just looked through them all again and you did the best.
Originally posted by Rolo
Here are the back and side views of my model, above:
You can see the ventilation slots in the top and bottom of the chassis in the back view. Side view shows double-hinged support arm in two positions. Although I'm showing the chassis in plastic, it may well be metal.
I also like the idea of a separate CPU (headless iMac).
P.S. The reason for the elongated shadow in the original image above is because the light was too close. I moved it up in these shots.
Pretty close too!
Originally posted by Rolo
Here are the back and side views of my model, above:
You can see the ventilation slots in the top and bottom of the chassis in the back view. Side view shows double-hinged support arm in two positions. Although I'm showing the chassis in plastic, it may well be metal.
Wow, my mockups from July 18 were pretty close. I got the base wrong and the speaker position.