Didn't they (and a few other members of the DVD forum) "boycot" the voting since they already new it was too late for their format? How is that "olive branch"?
No, I am referring to what happened a few weeks ago.
Didn't they (and a few other members of the DVD forum) "boycot" the voting since they already new it was too late for their format? How is that "olive branch"?
Umm, that is not the reason Blu-Ray supporters found fault with the decision the DVD Forum came to. I would say it had to do with this little snippet that can be found at http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20031126S0005 (I've taken the snippet out below):
"With some committee supporting the Blu-ray Disk format, the HD DVD proposal was twice voted down.
In the latest ballot, the HD DVD format failed to acquire a majority. However, an amended voting rule not to count abstentions cleared the way for final passage of the proposal."
I would call that swindling your format in as the "DVD Forum" standard, not voting it in. And from other articles I read, the companies behind the amended voting were...you guessed it, NEC, Toshiba, and...Intel. Go figure with that last one.
Do you have a link, as I would be interested in reading about that.
Actually what I believe 1984 is referring to is the report that Sony approached Toshiba about resolving this format war and they were rejected. The article can be found here and elsewhere:
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
We all know first hand that the best technology isn't always the winner. Apple only has 5% of the computer market.
And I personally am still pining over the demise of the Commodore Amiga (admit it guys, the Amiga was an amazing computer), which incidentally led me to the darkside and several years in Windoze hell
[I]I would call that swindling your format in as the "DVD Forum" standard, not voting it in. And from other articles I read, the companies behind the amended voting were...you guessed it, NEC, Toshiba, and...Intel. Go figure with that last one.
Not really what I would call it. Sony, and other Blu-Ray supporters basically knew that HD-DVD couldn't be accpeted if enough of their camp failed to show up for the voting days (there used to be a mandatory number of members present for a vote to count). So that is exactly what they did, they disappeared. I believe that Blu-Ray wasn't quite ready for a presentation yet to the forum, so the Blu-Ray group decided to run away from the voting tables so that there wasn't enough members to vote. Had they all just showed up and voted "No", HD-DVD would have still won with a majority share. The only way for Blu-Ray to "win" was to act like little babies and hide during voting. So the forum adopted an amendment that allowed for a majority of those that were there to count as a legal vote, therefor killing the tactic Blu-Ray members were using to prolong this whole decision.
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
"Several" advantages. I don't remember anyone coming up with that many advantages of BR over HD-DVD. I keep hearing geeks yammer on about 100GB and 200GB discs in the future when they should know better than to make decisions based on something that hasn't risen to even vapor levels.
The coating is a non feature. Sony had to use the coating or consider putting the discs in plastic protective covering. HD-DVD never mentioned this as a problem and never considered utilizing a cartridge system. That's just Sony coming up to par.
I've already relegated myself to buying both players. I will hope for a decent universal machine later on to consolidate. Neither format has an appreciable lead over the other. The extra space of BR is great if I want to back up data to BR discs but for watching movies it's not a deal winner.
I don't really trust Sony and I don't want Apple to hop into Sony's camp. Sony has made horrible decisions that have cost them money for years now and they deserve their current position. I'm not a Sony hater but ..Apple should support both formats equally IMO.
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
I do not have a link handy, but I do not recall TDK's coating process being exclusive...I should think that it would not be in TDK's interests to give anyone an exclusive use of their developments.
I don't really trust Sony and I don't want Apple to hop into Sony's camp. Sony has made horrible decisions that have cost them money for years now and they deserve their current position. I'm not a Sony hater but ..Apple should support both formats equally IMO.
IT IS NOT JUST SONY THAT USES BLU-RAY!!
Jeez, if it was M$ or something maybe, but there are many, many companies that are using BR. JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Pioneer, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp...
I do not have a link handy, but I do not recall TDK's coating process being exclusive...I should think that it would not be in TDK's interests to give anyone an exclusive use of their developments.
Even it was exclusive it's not like other manufacturers don't have similar tech coming. Imation's Forcefield is basically the same thing.
Standard CDs do not resist scratches, dust and other debris. Imation CD write-once discs with proprietary ForceField? Protective Coating add a unique, thin polymer layer of protection on the recording side ? guarding against most everyday wear and tear that can interrupt maximum enjoyment of music, photo and videos. The media offers hassle-free CD care & handling and will protect your precious memories for years to come.
DaveLee- Yes there are members of the Blu Ray Group including the companies you have mentioned but let's not confuse the fact that Sony is Blu Ray's progenitor and they call the shots basically.
Yes there are members of the Blu Ray Group including the companies you have mentioned but let's not confuse the fact that Sony is Blu Ray's progenitor and they call the shots basically.
I disagree. The BDA looks to be a very powerful association and many of the above mentioned companies (and others on the list) are at least as important as Sony (although, granted, only Sony has both hardware and content interest).
Don't forget that BR is no longer a proprietry format. Much of the direction the specification will take is already out of Sony's hands.
There is no format war. Blu-Ray already won. I work at nameless studios that jumped on the HD-DVD bandwagon. We're going to switch to blu-ray shortly. It just hasn't been announced. A few studios already switch, paramount for example.
Blu-Ray = 25 GB
HD-DVD = 15 GB (Uses a higher compression ratio to fit the same amount of movie time as blu-ray)
Blu-Ray is superior, and by the time you have these technologies neither will be as awesomely impressive, which is why companies are choosing the one that has higher storage.
It sounds like you've made quite a few bad purchasing decisions. You seem burnt buy your own choices:
1. Minidisc was a great format, but nobody was on board with it. Maybe you should have waited to see how it was going to turn out before buying one. Was it the 3 minidiscs that the local music store carried that won you over? Or the fact that it was a cool "gadget"
2. DAT is still big business. Most consumers have never heard of DAT. Why? Because it was never meant for consumers. It's meant for studios. This was clear from the beginning. Sounds like you bought one on a whim.
3. Digital8 is still around. There had to be a segway for various reason I won't go into great detail about... Pricing and Consumer backwards compatiblity. Yes of course, your VCR has firewire.. ;-)
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yeah it's looking that way DaveLee.
I don't have a problem with Blu-Ray. I'll buy one when I can afford it.
I'm just a Sony fan who's felt burned by their horrible decisions in the past.
1. Bough a minidisc recorder. Thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Winced when Sony created a non compatible computer format(MD-Data)
2. Wanted a DAT (Digital Audio Tape) a long time ago. Winced when Sony crippled them with SCMS(Serial Copy Management System)
3. Used to like Sony camcorders. Miffed when they wasted time and money on Digital8 and MicroMV.
Perhaps the best way to ensure some success is to take absolute control from Sony and put it into the hands of the collective.
There is no format war. Blu-Ray already won. I work at nameless studios that jumped on the HD-DVD bandwagon. We're going to switch to blu-ray shortly. It just hasn't been announced. A few studios already switch, paramount for example.
Well you better tell some of the heavies that have 89 titles coming by years end.
You must work for Fox. It still doesn't matter. Blu-Rays only claim to fame is capacity. Will that sway Hollywood..time will tell.
Quote:
Blu-Ray = 25 GB
HD-DVD = 15 GB (Uses a higher compression ratio to fit the same amount of movie time as blu-ray)
Wrong. Comression ratios are handled by the studios. Both formats utilize the same codecs. MPEG2, AVC and VC1. Both formats support up to 36Mbps throughput. Theoretically Blu-Ray could offer a higher bitrate but with AVC and VC1 the "sweet spot" is generally lower than 20Mbps.
Quote:
Was it the 3 minidiscs that the local music store carried that won you over? Or the fact that it was a cool "gadget"
No it was the quick access and very cool editing that CD burning still doesn't offer. Want to join tracks or split then. Done. Want to cut out silence or bleed from another track. Done. I still like MD. Sony just marketed it incorrectly.
Dat...never owned one. Too expensive but it was stillborn as a consumer format.
Digital8 was Sony bisecting the market again and slowing the path of MiniDV for self interest. They claimed that they were helping people with 8mm but come one there was no need for a "bridge" format.
Blu-Ray hasn't won squat. The consumer naturally tends to gravitate towards capacity as value. Hollywood is going to go with the cheaper solutions. If Blu-Ray is cheaper then it stands to win over HD-DVD and vice versa.
Apple need not make a decision here. They can support both just like what many smart companies will do once the capability of making universal drives comes to fruition.
Had they all just showed up and voted "No", HD-DVD would have still won with a majority share. The only way for Blu-Ray to "win" was to act like little babies and hide during voting.
Huh? Did you fail to read the part where the HD-DVD proposal failed to get a majority vote twice. That is because the majority didn't support that format. And why, would you show up to something when you know your absence will be counted as a vote for "no." Blu-Ray supporters weren't acting like "little babies" as you so called put it, they were letting their vote be known by being absent--which was a resounding "NO." But, it took deceit and dishonesty of those who were present to change the way votes were cast without the consent of those who supported Blu-Ray in the forum. Anyways, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that HD-DVD would have still won the majority share if the Blu-Ray supporters were present considering that there are still only three companies minus the studios who back it--NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo whereas Blu-Ray as webmail noted earlier has a backing of more than 70+ companies minus the studios who are also belong to the DVD forum. Do we need to go over what a majority is again folks? So how you come to such a conclusion is beyond me.
To me the main issue is DRM on the devices. Given a choice, I will buy the unprotected device. Given a choice, I will buy unprotected media. I am extremely reluctant to buy protected content I can't crack/unlock.
To me the main issue is DRM on the devices. Given a choice, I will buy the unprotected device. Given a choice, I will buy unprotected media. I am extremely reluctant to buy protected content I can't crack/unlock.
With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray you will not have that choice and it's unlikely that there will be a crack anytime soon for the AACS protection.
On another note watch closely to where the Porn industry at large goes. This may decide the winner far more easier than the other things we're quibbling about.
Sentiment about the format rivalry varies, depending largely on the size of porn producer.
Smaller outfits seem to prefer HD-DVD for its lower cost, while larger outfits tend toward Blu-ray for the capacity.
Quote:
"We're kind of riding it out a little further to see where the trend goes," said Jackie Ramos, an executive in the DVD division at leading porn producer Wicked Pictures. But if he had to choose, Ramos said, "Blu-ray technology sounds pretty attractive."
Quote:
Paul Hesky, chief operating officer of Multimedia Pictures Inc., one of the smaller groups, disagreed.
"Most of the DVD manufacturers in my business do not want the Blu-ray format because it requires new capital investment," he said, adding, "I know for sure one format or the other will be out (on the market) by this time next year."
It's going to boil down to price. I do admit to being curious as to what Jenna Jameson looks like in HD :P
Cost, or more precisely price, will determine the outcome in the consumer market. Unless Sony et al can get the cost of Blu-Ray *way down* it will not gain consumer acceptance. Yet Sony has taken a position that they want to avoid what happened with DVD burners...where they became commoditized.
The simple fact is that Sony has a long, sad record of developing interesting, technically advanced formats which have failed in the marketplace. I find it difficult to believe that Sony will be able to bring the PlayStation 3 to market at a price point that will be either comparable with the present lineup of machines or will be accepted by consumers unless they fundamentally change their position.
With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray you will not have that choice and it's unlikely that there will be a crack anytime soon for the AACS protection.
First, I think someone will do a lowest possible level crack to manually extract the pure compressed content, this is only a matter of time. Also possible is a limited crack that is based on a particular player's weak point and extracts the content as a pure stream.
Second, till the low level, general crack exists (at which point I am ready to buy the protected discs)... the stream is still being decoded to a pure digital output. This is something they simply cannot avoid by any encryption, present, past or future. Re-encode will take a little bit of quality, but that's negligible and the resulting quality will be way, way better than DVD - maybe indistinguishable from the original. Only one person on the net has to do this so I'll just skip the "buy equipment", "buy content" and "re-encode" steps and fast forward to "watch". I think this is a worse option for them compared to selling me the unprotected content.
The more powerful and effective they make the encryption/authentication, the more devices will cost, the harder it is to use them (for instance, if you have to authenticate through the net) and the more people will pick the unauthorized copy. Device and technology licensing sales will decline at the same rate.
Huh? Did you fail to read the part where the HD-DVD proposal failed to get a majority vote twice. That is because the majority didn't support that format. And why, would you show up to something when you know your absence will be counted as a vote for "no." Blu-Ray supporters weren't acting like "little babies" as you so called put it, they were letting their vote be known by being absent--which was a resounding "NO." But, it took deceit and dishonesty of those who were present to change the way votes were cast without the consent of those who supported Blu-Ray in the forum. Anyways, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that HD-DVD would have still won the majority share if the Blu-Ray supporters were present considering that there are still only three companies minus the studios who back it--NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo whereas Blu-Ray as webmail noted earlier has a backing of more than 70+ companies minus the studios who are also belong to the DVD forum. Do we need to go over what a majority is again folks? So how you come to such a conclusion is beyond me.
I didn't read the article you linked to, I had read it awhile ago in a different article, that is how I came up with it. I can't find the info now however...
If Sony and company could have been there and voted No, why did they ditch out on the meeting? Wouldn't it have been a clearer message if the DVD Forum fully didn't back the format (if the vote was a resounding NO). I think there is more to it that this article puts out. But isn't it interesting that the Blu-ray Disc format was never submitted to the DVD Forum for consideration. Huh. Now why would they continue to not show up for voting? Could it be they were trying to stall so they could get their act together and present their opposing format? [sarcasm]No, never. The Blu-Ray camp wouldn't pull dirty tricks to stall things, no way. Only the evil HD-DVD group would cheat to get their format to the top.[/sarcasm]
One last note, that I found interesting:
Quote:
Sixty companies took part in the forum's technical working group to develop the high-definition (HD-DVD) format, and some of them are also members of the opposing Blu-ray Disc ROM (BD-ROM) camp. Blu-ray was developed by 10 powerful consumer electronics companies, including Sony, Philips, Hitachi, Sharp and Samsung. All 10 are members of the DVD Forum's steering committee.
I say I find it interesting, because I always see mentioned how HD-DVD is backed by 2 (NEC/Toshiba) while Blu-Ray is backed by many. Looks a little different to me.
Comments
Originally posted by Existence
Sometime in April 2005...
Introducing the new 3.0GHz PowerMac G5. Now with Blue-Ray Hyperdrive.
I suspect it'll be more like SuperDrive Extreme in August.
Originally posted by kupan787
Didn't they (and a few other members of the DVD forum) "boycot" the voting since they already new it was too late for their format? How is that "olive branch"?
No, I am referring to what happened a few weeks ago.
Originally posted by 1984
No, I am referring to what happened a few weeks ago.
Do you have a link, as I would be interested in reading about that.
Umm, that is not the reason Blu-Ray supporters found fault with the decision the DVD Forum came to. I would say it had to do with this little snippet that can be found at http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20031126S0005 (I've taken the snippet out below):
"With some committee supporting the Blu-ray Disk format, the HD DVD proposal was twice voted down.
In the latest ballot, the HD DVD format failed to acquire a majority. However, an amended voting rule not to count abstentions cleared the way for final passage of the proposal."
I would call that swindling your format in as the "DVD Forum" standard, not voting it in. And from other articles I read, the companies behind the amended voting were...you guessed it, NEC, Toshiba, and...Intel. Go figure with that last one.
Do you have a link, as I would be interested in reading about that.
Actually what I believe 1984 is referring to is the report that Sony approached Toshiba about resolving this format war and they were rejected. The article can be found here and elsewhere:
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/118
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
http://www.tdk.co.jp/teaah01/aah14600.htm
And I personally am still pining over the demise of the Commodore Amiga (admit it guys, the Amiga was an amazing computer), which incidentally led me to the darkside and several years in Windoze hell
Originally posted by marzetta7
[I]I would call that swindling your format in as the "DVD Forum" standard, not voting it in. And from other articles I read, the companies behind the amended voting were...you guessed it, NEC, Toshiba, and...Intel. Go figure with that last one.
Not really what I would call it. Sony, and other Blu-Ray supporters basically knew that HD-DVD couldn't be accpeted if enough of their camp failed to show up for the voting days (there used to be a mandatory number of members present for a vote to count). So that is exactly what they did, they disappeared. I believe that Blu-Ray wasn't quite ready for a presentation yet to the forum, so the Blu-Ray group decided to run away from the voting tables so that there wasn't enough members to vote. Had they all just showed up and voted "No", HD-DVD would have still won with a majority share. The only way for Blu-Ray to "win" was to act like little babies and hide during voting. So the forum adopted an amendment that allowed for a majority of those that were there to count as a legal vote, therefor killing the tactic Blu-Ray members were using to prolong this whole decision.
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
"Several" advantages. I don't remember anyone coming up with that many advantages of BR over HD-DVD. I keep hearing geeks yammer on about 100GB and 200GB discs in the future when they should know better than to make decisions based on something that hasn't risen to even vapor levels.
The coating is a non feature. Sony had to use the coating or consider putting the discs in plastic protective covering. HD-DVD never mentioned this as a problem and never considered utilizing a cartridge system. That's just Sony coming up to par.
I've already relegated myself to buying both players. I will hope for a decent universal machine later on to consolidate. Neither format has an appreciable lead over the other. The extra space of BR is great if I want to back up data to BR discs but for watching movies it's not a deal winner.
I don't really trust Sony and I don't want Apple to hop into Sony's camp. Sony has made horrible decisions that have cost them money for years now and they deserve their current position. I'm not a Sony hater but ..Apple should support both formats equally IMO.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Also, before when we were talking about the SEVERAL advantages Blu-Ray discs would have over HD-DVD discs other than capacity, I mentioned the coating TDK developed exclusively for Blu-Ray. You guys can read more about it here:
http://www.tdk.co.jp/teaah01/aah14600.htm
I do not have a link handy, but I do not recall TDK's coating process being exclusive...I should think that it would not be in TDK's interests to give anyone an exclusive use of their developments.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I don't really trust Sony and I don't want Apple to hop into Sony's camp. Sony has made horrible decisions that have cost them money for years now and they deserve their current position. I'm not a Sony hater but ..Apple should support both formats equally IMO.
IT IS NOT JUST SONY THAT USES BLU-RAY!!
Jeez, if it was M$ or something maybe, but there are many, many companies that are using BR. JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Pioneer, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp...
Do you not trust any of them??
Originally posted by RBR
I do not have a link handy, but I do not recall TDK's coating process being exclusive...I should think that it would not be in TDK's interests to give anyone an exclusive use of their developments.
Even it was exclusive it's not like other manufacturers don't have similar tech coming. Imation's Forcefield is basically the same thing.
Standard CDs do not resist scratches, dust and other debris. Imation CD write-once discs with proprietary ForceField? Protective Coating add a unique, thin polymer layer of protection on the recording side ? guarding against most everyday wear and tear that can interrupt maximum enjoyment of music, photo and videos. The media offers hassle-free CD care & handling and will protect your precious memories for years to come.
DaveLee- Yes there are members of the Blu Ray Group including the companies you have mentioned but let's not confuse the fact that Sony is Blu Ray's progenitor and they call the shots basically.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yes there are members of the Blu Ray Group including the companies you have mentioned but let's not confuse the fact that Sony is Blu Ray's progenitor and they call the shots basically.
I disagree. The BDA looks to be a very powerful association and many of the above mentioned companies (and others on the list) are at least as important as Sony (although, granted, only Sony has both hardware and content interest).
Don't forget that BR is no longer a proprietry format. Much of the direction the specification will take is already out of Sony's hands.
I don't have a problem with Blu-Ray. I'll buy one when I can afford it.
I'm just a Sony fan who's felt burned by their horrible decisions in the past.
1. Bough a minidisc recorder. Thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Winced when Sony created a non compatible computer format(MD-Data)
2. Wanted a DAT (Digital Audio Tape) a long time ago. Winced when Sony crippled them with SCMS(Serial Copy Management System)
3. Used to like Sony camcorders. Miffed when they wasted time and money on Digital8 and MicroMV.
Perhaps the best way to ensure some success is to take absolute control from Sony and put it into the hands of the collective.
Blu-Ray = 25 GB
HD-DVD = 15 GB (Uses a higher compression ratio to fit the same amount of movie time as blu-ray)
Blu-Ray is superior, and by the time you have these technologies neither will be as awesomely impressive, which is why companies are choosing the one that has higher storage.
It sounds like you've made quite a few bad purchasing decisions. You seem burnt buy your own choices:
1. Minidisc was a great format, but nobody was on board with it. Maybe you should have waited to see how it was going to turn out before buying one. Was it the 3 minidiscs that the local music store carried that won you over? Or the fact that it was a cool "gadget"
2. DAT is still big business. Most consumers have never heard of DAT. Why? Because it was never meant for consumers. It's meant for studios. This was clear from the beginning. Sounds like you bought one on a whim.
3. Digital8 is still around. There had to be a segway for various reason I won't go into great detail about... Pricing and Consumer backwards compatiblity. Yes of course, your VCR has firewire.. ;-)
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yeah it's looking that way DaveLee.
I don't have a problem with Blu-Ray. I'll buy one when I can afford it.
I'm just a Sony fan who's felt burned by their horrible decisions in the past.
1. Bough a minidisc recorder. Thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Winced when Sony created a non compatible computer format(MD-Data)
2. Wanted a DAT (Digital Audio Tape) a long time ago. Winced when Sony crippled them with SCMS(Serial Copy Management System)
3. Used to like Sony camcorders. Miffed when they wasted time and money on Digital8 and MicroMV.
Perhaps the best way to ensure some success is to take absolute control from Sony and put it into the hands of the collective.
There is no format war. Blu-Ray already won. I work at nameless studios that jumped on the HD-DVD bandwagon. We're going to switch to blu-ray shortly. It just hasn't been announced. A few studios already switch, paramount for example.
Well you better tell some of the heavies that have 89 titles coming by years end.
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray square off at CES 2005
HD-DVD cost less says HD-DVD proponent. 50 Million discs could be produced
You must work for Fox. It still doesn't matter. Blu-Rays only claim to fame is capacity. Will that sway Hollywood..time will tell.
Blu-Ray = 25 GB
HD-DVD = 15 GB (Uses a higher compression ratio to fit the same amount of movie time as blu-ray)
Wrong. Comression ratios are handled by the studios. Both formats utilize the same codecs. MPEG2, AVC and VC1. Both formats support up to 36Mbps throughput. Theoretically Blu-Ray could offer a higher bitrate but with AVC and VC1 the "sweet spot" is generally lower than 20Mbps.
Was it the 3 minidiscs that the local music store carried that won you over? Or the fact that it was a cool "gadget"
No it was the quick access and very cool editing that CD burning still doesn't offer. Want to join tracks or split then. Done. Want to cut out silence or bleed from another track. Done. I still like MD. Sony just marketed it incorrectly.
Dat...never owned one. Too expensive but it was stillborn as a consumer format.
Digital8 was Sony bisecting the market again and slowing the path of MiniDV for self interest. They claimed that they were helping people with 8mm but come one there was no need for a "bridge" format.
Blu-Ray hasn't won squat. The consumer naturally tends to gravitate towards capacity as value. Hollywood is going to go with the cheaper solutions. If Blu-Ray is cheaper then it stands to win over HD-DVD and vice versa.
Apple need not make a decision here. They can support both just like what many smart companies will do once the capability of making universal drives comes to fruition.
Huh? Did you fail to read the part where the HD-DVD proposal failed to get a majority vote twice. That is because the majority didn't support that format. And why, would you show up to something when you know your absence will be counted as a vote for "no." Blu-Ray supporters weren't acting like "little babies" as you so called put it, they were letting their vote be known by being absent--which was a resounding "NO." But, it took deceit and dishonesty of those who were present to change the way votes were cast without the consent of those who supported Blu-Ray in the forum. Anyways, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that HD-DVD would have still won the majority share if the Blu-Ray supporters were present considering that there are still only three companies minus the studios who back it--NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo whereas Blu-Ray as webmail noted earlier has a backing of more than 70+ companies minus the studios who are also belong to the DVD forum. Do we need to go over what a majority is again folks? So how you come to such a conclusion is beyond me.
Originally posted by Gon
To me the main issue is DRM on the devices. Given a choice, I will buy the unprotected device. Given a choice, I will buy unprotected media. I am extremely reluctant to buy protected content I can't crack/unlock.
With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray you will not have that choice and it's unlikely that there will be a crack anytime soon for the AACS protection.
On another note watch closely to where the Porn industry at large goes. This may decide the winner far more easier than the other things we're quibbling about.
Get your HD porn info here!
some quotes from above article.
Sentiment about the format rivalry varies, depending largely on the size of porn producer.
Smaller outfits seem to prefer HD-DVD for its lower cost, while larger outfits tend toward Blu-ray for the capacity.
"We're kind of riding it out a little further to see where the trend goes," said Jackie Ramos, an executive in the DVD division at leading porn producer Wicked Pictures. But if he had to choose, Ramos said, "Blu-ray technology sounds pretty attractive."
Paul Hesky, chief operating officer of Multimedia Pictures Inc., one of the smaller groups, disagreed.
"Most of the DVD manufacturers in my business do not want the Blu-ray format because it requires new capital investment," he said, adding, "I know for sure one format or the other will be out (on the market) by this time next year."
It's going to boil down to price. I do admit to being curious as to what Jenna Jameson looks like in HD :P
The simple fact is that Sony has a long, sad record of developing interesting, technically advanced formats which have failed in the marketplace. I find it difficult to believe that Sony will be able to bring the PlayStation 3 to market at a price point that will be either comparable with the present lineup of machines or will be accepted by consumers unless they fundamentally change their position.
Originally posted by hmurchison
With HD-DVD and Blu-Ray you will not have that choice and it's unlikely that there will be a crack anytime soon for the AACS protection.
First, I think someone will do a lowest possible level crack to manually extract the pure compressed content, this is only a matter of time. Also possible is a limited crack that is based on a particular player's weak point and extracts the content as a pure stream.
Second, till the low level, general crack exists (at which point I am ready to buy the protected discs)... the stream is still being decoded to a pure digital output. This is something they simply cannot avoid by any encryption, present, past or future. Re-encode will take a little bit of quality, but that's negligible and the resulting quality will be way, way better than DVD - maybe indistinguishable from the original. Only one person on the net has to do this so I'll just skip the "buy equipment", "buy content" and "re-encode" steps and fast forward to "watch". I think this is a worse option for them compared to selling me the unprotected content.
The more powerful and effective they make the encryption/authentication, the more devices will cost, the harder it is to use them (for instance, if you have to authenticate through the net) and the more people will pick the unauthorized copy. Device and technology licensing sales will decline at the same rate.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Huh? Did you fail to read the part where the HD-DVD proposal failed to get a majority vote twice. That is because the majority didn't support that format. And why, would you show up to something when you know your absence will be counted as a vote for "no." Blu-Ray supporters weren't acting like "little babies" as you so called put it, they were letting their vote be known by being absent--which was a resounding "NO." But, it took deceit and dishonesty of those who were present to change the way votes were cast without the consent of those who supported Blu-Ray in the forum. Anyways, I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that HD-DVD would have still won the majority share if the Blu-Ray supporters were present considering that there are still only three companies minus the studios who back it--NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo whereas Blu-Ray as webmail noted earlier has a backing of more than 70+ companies minus the studios who are also belong to the DVD forum. Do we need to go over what a majority is again folks? So how you come to such a conclusion is beyond me.
I didn't read the article you linked to, I had read it awhile ago in a different article, that is how I came up with it. I can't find the info now however...
If Sony and company could have been there and voted No, why did they ditch out on the meeting? Wouldn't it have been a clearer message if the DVD Forum fully didn't back the format (if the vote was a resounding NO). I think there is more to it that this article puts out. But isn't it interesting that the Blu-ray Disc format was never submitted to the DVD Forum for consideration. Huh. Now why would they continue to not show up for voting? Could it be they were trying to stall so they could get their act together and present their opposing format? [sarcasm]No, never. The Blu-Ray camp wouldn't pull dirty tricks to stall things, no way. Only the evil HD-DVD group would cheat to get their format to the top.[/sarcasm]
One last note, that I found interesting:
Sixty companies took part in the forum's technical working group to develop the high-definition (HD-DVD) format, and some of them are also members of the opposing Blu-ray Disc ROM (BD-ROM) camp. Blu-ray was developed by 10 powerful consumer electronics companies, including Sony, Philips, Hitachi, Sharp and Samsung. All 10 are members of the DVD Forum's steering committee.
I say I find it interesting, because I always see mentioned how HD-DVD is backed by 2 (NEC/Toshiba) while Blu-Ray is backed by many. Looks a little different to me.