<strong>All right. I'm not pissed about buying my PB-800 on the day of the New York Expo in July, but I have always yelled and yelled for a Superdrive.
So now:
HEY, APPLE! LET ME UPGRADE TO A SUPERDRIVE!
-- PEte</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah I have not heard word of an upgrade for older tiBooks. How long was it after the release of the Combo drive that they released the upgrade kit for it? I bet there is some third party ready to strike it rich if he can get an upgrade kit out long before Apple can. I bet a crap load of older ti owners would pay a pretty penny for SuperDrive.
<strong>Does anyone know if the local Apple retail stores give educators the education discount? I am a teacher and when I get paid I want to walk in and get a brand spanking new powerbook. I have my teachers association card, school id...I would love to walk in plunk down the $$ and walk out with it (no waiting for shipping) Anyways I cant wait </strong><hr></blockquote>
yes they do... only on apple hardware... not software... although they'll give you Jaguar for free with that teacher deal as well... kind of cool
How come no one is bitching about there being no true DDR RAM capable motherboard? That would have been more of a performance boost than the speed bump!
<strong>How come no one is bitching about there being no true DDR RAM capable motherboard? That would have been more of a performance boost than the speed bump!</strong><hr></blockquote>
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>
So applenut can we assume you are implying that in all single processor machines; both desktop and notebook, as well as PC and MAC, will benefit ZIPPO! NADA! NUTHIN! from DDR RAM motherboards???
Why do they even make single processort PC's with DDR system RAM then?
So applenut can we assume you are implying that in all single processor machines; both desktop and notebook, as well as PC and MAC, will benefit ZIPPO! NADA! NUTHIN! from DDR RAM motherboards???
Why do they even make single processort PC's with DDR system RAM then?</strong><hr></blockquote>
no.... P4s and Athlons don't have a 133 or 167 frontside bus as the max speed... the G4 does... this is an Apple specific problem.
no.... P4s and Athlons don't have a 133 or 167 frontside bus as the max speed... the G4 does... this is an Apple specific problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In that case do you think this FSB speed limitation likely (if at all) to be rectified soon?
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.
<strong>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
here's a quote:
[quote]Indeed, you seem to have no idea about a great many things. Here's how it actually works:
Both G4's are connected via a shared 133MHz bus [166 for the dual 1.25's] to the memory controller. Both G4's, together, will never see more than ~1GiB/s (and if both are working at full tilt and pulling data as fast as possible, they'll each see ~1/2 of that).
If this discussion forum supported inline images, I'd post the diagram. Here it is:
[quote]The DDR RAM used in the XServe is connected to two G4s so that each CPU uses one half of the DDR bandwidth. Each G4 is only capable of accessing memory at the single-pumped, 133MHz SDR rate-- that's why you don't see single-CPU G4s with DDR-- the extra bandwidth would be completely wasted. This has been well documented<hr></blockquote>
Just to clarify, since both quotes given by Applenut contradict each other: The first one is correct. In the dual processor macs, both processors share one single 133/167 MHz bus, i.e. both processors together can only ever use half the bandwidth offered by DDR RAM. The rest isn't completely wasted, though, as it can be used for busmaster transfers, and most likely also for moving textures between main memory and VRAM for Quartz Extreme.
<strong>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's wrong. The DDR in the xServe helps because the drives soak up some of the bandwidth.
RazzFazz offered some other uses in the post above, uses that would be lost in the Ti under current G4 DDR implementations.
The problem was the my PowerMac G4 broke down. I had no choice, since I was without a computer for a few weeks, and had nightly papers to write. I couldn't keep using my neighbor's computer like that. I waited and waited and waited and waited and waited. October 15th, they said. October 25th, they said. There was nothing I could do... </strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry to hear that, but don't be sorry, you still have a computer others would kill for.
WOW! I must confess that when I saw this beautiful piece of work on the Apple homepage I started drooling... I mean: 1 Ghz, 1 GB RAM, SuperDrive? It's enough to make you go insane... but alas! there are a couple of points to consider.
First let me say that I've got to hand it to Apple for such an amazing, affordable upgrade. I mean; whoah. But, It just sounds to me like this new PB is an introductory product to a new lineup. I would definitely be surprised if it came in January, I'm thinking more around July... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Well, I'm probably gonna get one anyway, except I'm getting it with the combo drive, I already have a (faster) SuperDrive on my iMac, which I bought in May this year. The combo burns CD's faster than the super (twice as fast ).The only reason I'm getting a PB is because I travel across the border every weekend, and a portable does not have to go through customs, whereas a my iMac... well, let me just say that it is a BIG hassle packing and lugging this thing around every freakin' weekend. I need to rehearse and record with my band: it would be nice not having to pack/carry/gotocustoms/unpack a 25 lb computer...
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>
actually i thought DDR-SoRam was less heat-intensive and better for battery life then regular SDRam... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>It's wrong. The DDR in the xServe helps because the drives soak up some of the bandwidth.
RazzFazz offered some other uses in the post above, uses that would be lost in the Ti under current G4 DDR implementations.</strong><hr></blockquote>No, you're wrong. (See, isn't that easy - anyone can say that.)
Care to explain how it's wrong, though. The CPUs are choked at 167 (or 133, depending on the machine) because there is no true DDR FSB. Yes, the DDR isn't going completely to waste because the drives use the full DDR speed - that's why I said that the system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates.
Comments
<strong>All right. I'm not pissed about buying my PB-800 on the day of the New York Expo in July, but I have always yelled and yelled for a Superdrive.
So now:
HEY, APPLE! LET ME UPGRADE TO A SUPERDRIVE!
-- PEte</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah I have not heard word of an upgrade for older tiBooks. How long was it after the release of the Combo drive that they released the upgrade kit for it? I bet there is some third party ready to strike it rich if he can get an upgrade kit out long before Apple can. I bet a crap load of older ti owners would pay a pretty penny for SuperDrive.
<strong>Does anyone know if the local Apple retail stores give educators the education discount? I am a teacher and when I get paid I want to walk in and get a brand spanking new powerbook. I have my teachers association card, school id...I would love to walk in plunk down the $$ and walk out with it (no waiting for shipping) Anyways I cant wait
yes they do... only on apple hardware... not software... although they'll give you Jaguar for free with that teacher deal as well... kind of cool
<strong>How come no one is bitching about there being no true DDR RAM capable motherboard? That would have been more of a performance boost than the speed bump!</strong><hr></blockquote>
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot
<strong>
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>
So applenut can we assume you are implying that in all single processor machines; both desktop and notebook, as well as PC and MAC, will benefit ZIPPO! NADA! NUTHIN! from DDR RAM motherboards???
Why do they even make single processort PC's with DDR system RAM then?
<strong>
So applenut can we assume you are implying that in all single processor machines; both desktop and notebook, as well as PC and MAC, will benefit ZIPPO! NADA! NUTHIN! from DDR RAM motherboards???
Why do they even make single processort PC's with DDR system RAM then?</strong><hr></blockquote>
no.... P4s and Athlons don't have a 133 or 167 frontside bus as the max speed... the G4 does... this is an Apple specific problem.
<strong>
no.... P4s and Athlons don't have a 133 or 167 frontside bus as the max speed... the G4 does... this is an Apple specific problem.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In that case do you think this FSB speed limitation likely (if at all) to be rectified soon?
<strong>
In that case do you think this FSB speed limitation likely (if at all) to be rectified soon?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think the next major G4 rev is suppose to support a 200Mhz bus...
probably won't officially be alleviated until something like the IBM PowerPC 970 or some other next gen powerpc
<strong>
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.
<strong>
Is it really from Pioneer? I have not found the specs yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, it is from Matsushita. Pioneer has nothing to do with this.
<strong>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
here's a quote:
[quote]Indeed, you seem to have no idea about a great many things. Here's how it actually works:
Both G4's are connected via a shared 133MHz bus [166 for the dual 1.25's] to the memory controller. Both G4's, together, will never see more than ~1GiB/s (and if both are working at full tilt and pulling data as fast as possible, they'll each see ~1/2 of that).
If this discussion forum supported inline images, I'd post the diagram. Here it is:
[link]http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/medicalmac/im2/xserveblock.gif[/link]<hr></blockquote>;
[quote]The DDR RAM used in the XServe is connected to two G4s so that each CPU uses one half of the DDR bandwidth. Each G4 is only capable of accessing memory at the single-pumped, 133MHz SDR rate-- that's why you don't see single-CPU G4s with DDR-- the extra bandwidth would be completely wasted. This has been well documented<hr></blockquote>
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
Bye,
RazzFazz
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: RazzFazz ]</p>
<strong>There is a DDR xserve with a single 1Ghz CPU. And in general, I don't think the dual CPU is Apple's justification for DDR - I believe memory to CPUs (FSB) is still choked at 167 and 133. The system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates, but memory to system controller to CPUs is still at single rates. Someone correct this if it's wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's wrong. The DDR in the xServe helps because the drives soak up some of the bandwidth.
RazzFazz offered some other uses in the post above, uses that would be lost in the Ti under current G4 DDR implementations.
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: serrano ]</p>
<strong>
The problem was the my PowerMac G4 broke down. I had no choice, since I was without a computer for a few weeks, and had nightly papers to write. I couldn't keep using my neighbor's computer like that. I waited and waited and waited and waited and waited. October 15th, they said. October 25th, they said. There was nothing I could do...
Sorry to hear that, but don't be sorry, you still have a computer others would kill for.
<strong>
No, it is from Matsushita. Pioneer has nothing to do with this.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt anyone does, but in case you think Matsushita is some random company, they normally operate under another name in America...Panasonic.
Panasonic is s subsidiary of super-company Matsushita.
First let me say that I've got to hand it to Apple for such an amazing, affordable upgrade. I mean; whoah. But, It just sounds to me like this new PB is an introductory product to a new lineup. I would definitely be surprised if it came in January, I'm thinking more around July... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Well, I'm probably gonna get one anyway, except I'm getting it with the combo drive, I already have a (faster) SuperDrive on my iMac, which I bought in May this year. The combo burns CD's faster than the super (twice as fast ).The only reason I'm getting a PB is because I travel across the border every weekend, and a portable does not have to go through customs, whereas a my iMac... well, let me just say that it is a BIG hassle packing and lugging this thing around every freakin' weekend. I need to rehearse and record with my band: it would be nice not having to pack/carry/gotocustoms/unpack a 25 lb computer...
whaddaya think?
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: RANSOMED ]</p>
<strong>
would have done nothing... Apple's DDR implementation only is an "advantage" on dual processor machines... hence why all DDR macs are DP.... it divides the bandwidth... 133Mhz to each processor or 167 Mhz..... it's something that would have shown little to no improvement on the powerbook and only added heat to something that already is extremely hot</strong><hr></blockquote>
actually i thought DDR-SoRam was less heat-intensive and better for battery life then regular SDRam... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>It's wrong. The DDR in the xServe helps because the drives soak up some of the bandwidth.
RazzFazz offered some other uses in the post above, uses that would be lost in the Ti under current G4 DDR implementations.</strong><hr></blockquote>No, you're wrong. (See, isn't that easy - anyone can say that.)
Care to explain how it's wrong, though. The CPUs are choked at 167 (or 133, depending on the machine) because there is no true DDR FSB. Yes, the DDR isn't going completely to waste because the drives use the full DDR speed - that's why I said that the system controller can swap stuff around with I/O at DDR rates.