This is a great way for Apple to proof them first...
Just seems like they've had plenty of time to get these things out the door. With Keynote 2 and now Pages apparently using the same thing, how much more work does it take? Meh, nevermind me and my impatience.
I agree with the person who noted that Steve said "With iWork, we're _building_ the successor to AppleWorks." Clearly they know they are not done.
Let's take the 6 pieces that make up the AppleWorks software: Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database, Drawing, Painting & Presentation: \t
1 - Word Processing: "Pages" clearly handles that, albeit maybe it will need to get to version 1.1 before some smaller missing items (like word count) are added. But we all agree that word processing is taken care of.
2 - Spreadsheet: Clearly missing, with rumors of "Cells". I have no doubt that Apple is working on something in their labs, and maybe "Cells" simply wasn't ready to debut just yet.
3 - Database: "Filemaker" does it, but is too complex and costly for mom and dad and the average person. Apple needs to create a "Filemaker Light" to bundle with iWork 2.0 that fills this need.
4 - Drawing & Painting: "iPhoto" & "Core Image" clearly show that Apple has all the knowledge and tools to edit& manipulate images, and do all the fancy stuff that Photoshop currently does. Why Apple doesn't release some sort of "MacPaint '05" application is unknown, but I think a very good idea.
5 - Presentation: Hello "Keynote".
To truly replace AppleWorks, Apple needs to supply Cells, Filemaker Light. MacPaint '05 ... until then, calling Pages and Keynote a "suite" seems a little overblown. I also think the extra "s" in "iWorks" makes the package sound significantly better than the singular "iWork" but what do I know?
Yes, it is a word processor. One of the Themes is a blank page, just like Word et al. The cool looking stuff is there to help get you started, just like you can find in MS Word's porject gallery. The difference is that adding your own graphics is easier and more likely to give you better results with Pages than with Word
iWork is a steal, anyway you look at it. Keynote 1.0 was $99. Now you get Keynote 2 AND Pages for $79!!??
Leave it to Apple to "think different." You have to love the simplicity of the product. Almost too easy to use, Pages can help anyone create visually appealing content that looks professional. I'm about to sell a house and you better believe I'll be using Pages for the layout.
I also own a small web firm and often use Flash (instead of powerpoint) for my business proposals. However, Keynote adds just enough animated effects for me to skip using Flash as a proposal medium when I am in a crunch.
Now, with iPod Shuffle I can listen to 1GB of success tracks (selling, closing, etc.) while I am on my way to the client, then use it as a storage device for my flash/keynote presentations.
I do have one question, however. Keynote 2 can export flash, but can it import a flash animated sequence?
I don't care if Apple makes an Office competitor. I do want to see an Apple-based Microsoft Project competitor. Without a Project contender, business project management professionals will not be able to migrate completely to the Mac. I prefer Apple makes a MS Project competitor, but if Microsoft makes it, so be it. I just need the functionality to ditch my PC (acually, I will always develop flash on a PC until macromedia makes a flash iteration than can perform equally to the PC version).
After reading some of your previous posts... you seem like someone who has some insight on the 'Research Community' (comments about EndNote and Graphing/Charting etc).
If I'm correct, do you feel Pages could be used by a "Principal Investigator Type" that is writing a grant? Grant writing is a pain to begin with and from what all the PI's I talk to say - MS Word isn't helping matters.
In short do you think Pages would be 'Better' 'Worse' or 'Same' when it comes to grant writing?
(yea I know - EndNote gives a clear advantage to Word but lets hope Niles and Associates steps up to the plate with Pages support - them or one of their competitors)
so Apple will continue to ship AppleWorks with new Macs and not iWork?
For the time being, seems so. I was quite surprised by that at first, but w/ a little reflection it makes sense... iWork is still really in a transitional period. I suspect the AW bundling may last up until all of the functionality of AW is replaced.
BTW, the lack of word count (if that's true) in Pages is really silly, but anyone can easily add word count (and much more!) for any Services-savvy app with the wonderful and free WordService. Add the modest APE module IceCoffee, if you dare, and you'll be in 7th heaven.
This is the addition that almost makes TextEdit a light WP. Almost.
Carson, can you (or anyone else from MWSF) report in more detail how Pages fares in the WP dept.? It was demo'd almost entirely as a surprisingly powerful lightweight DTP application... Which is great, but I'm curious if it's up to snuff for casual but solid WP usage.
Does Pages use a new file format? I imagine it would. The specs say it imports AW files, but nothing about exporting them. Also, I doubt Apple would use the Word file format, which the specs say it both imports and exports. Just curious.
I'll buy iWork. It's just what I've wanted minus a spreadsheet. I'll use AW until "Cells" comes out. I can hope Cells is introduced when Tiger comes out, that it just needs some of Tiger's frameworks. OTOH, I think that idea proposed earlier has merit. Sell the office suit in two separate packages. The name iWork sounds more like an iApp. Yet if it's beefed up with spreadsheet and more it will be like an Express or Pro application. Any speculation about this?
If Keynote, Create and other Cocoa apps are an indication (and they are), then Pages will use its own bundle file format with a base file in xml. For example, in Keynote and Create files, you can control-click on the document, choose "show package contents" and see the Images folder and other elements in separate locations, just like you can do with an application bundle. The bundle is treated like a file but keeps its data "readable" and modular rather than shoving all the data into a cryptic file format.
After reading some of your previous posts... you seem like someone who has some insight on the 'Research Community' (comments about EndNote and Graphing/Charting etc).
If I'm correct, do you feel Pages could be used by a "Principal Investigator Type" that is writing a grant? Grant writing is a pain to begin with and from what all the PI's I talk to say - MS Word isn't helping matters.
In short do you think Pages would be 'Better' 'Worse' or 'Same' when it comes to grant writing?
(yea I know - EndNote gives a clear advantage to Word but lets hope Niles and Associates steps up to the plate with Pages support - them or one of their competitors)
Dave
Yes, I'm a scientist in academics-biomedical stuff. I write too many grants.
I'm hoping to replace MS Word, mostly because of the absolute pain Word is when dealing with pictures/graphics. I'm looking forward to having crisp straight lines again, instead of the fuzz i had to deal with since moving to Word X.
Page layout on grants is pretty simple stuff. Generally, they don't even let you use color. The rules usually regard page limitations, margins, font sizes and such. Other than the limitations in importing PDF into Word, the big problem with Word was the bad habit of graphics suddenly jumping pages when a space was added somewhere else. Hours can be spent on rearranging the order of the text and graphics to make it all fit. Sometimes I've been completely unable to get a figure to stay on one page, instead of the page before and after. I'm hoping Pages makes this all a lot easier. In my tryout at MWSF, I didn't get fancier than two graphics and a couple of pages of text, but the feel to the whole thing was great. It feels like Keynote. You can drag and drop your file in, add a text box for a legend, group the graphic and text box and then size and place were you want it.
The lack of word count will hopefully be fixed soon.
Semi-off topic EndNote bash:
EndNote is no longer owned by Niles&Associates. It has been bought out by Thomson Researchsoft (ISI). It has been going downhill ever since. Note these guys also own ProCite and Reference Manager. I've always been an Endnote user, but the point is they have a monopoly.
If and when they support pages with a plug in, it will take at least until the next version (about a year). I got this info from the rep at MWSF. They just came out with EndNote 8, which I'm reluctant to buy since they never fixed the serious bugs in version 7.
I'm sure Pages can be used with EndNote in the old fashion way: cut and paste the references and open the final document in Endnote to format.
Carson, can you (or anyone else from MWSF) report in more detail how Pages fares in the WP dept.? It was demo'd almost entirely as a surprisingly powerful lightweight DTP application... Which is great, but I'm curious if it's up to snuff for casual but solid WP usage.
I focused on how it handled inserting and manipulating graphics, so I'm not sure about all the WP functions. It is a WP, but the demo was showed the flashy side with all the nice colors and pictures. From what i saw, if you are familiar with Keynote, then you have a good idea of how things are laid out. The main functions are found in the inspector. Look at Apple's site for more info: http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
I focused on how it handled inserting and manipulating graphics, so I'm not sure about all the WP functions. It is a WP, but the demo was showed the flashy side with all the nice colors and pictures. From what i saw, if you are familiar with Keynote, then you have a good idea of how things are laid out. The main functions are found in the inspector. Look at Apple's site for more info: http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
Actually, haven't used Keynote, but think I have a decent idea how it looks, and how it's used.
I was hoping for a little more info on WP in Pages than from Apple's one-pager.
I'm curious how the experience is using Pages in WP, and all the things Apple doesn't mention: headers + footers, document information, the Pages file format, success rate of .doc compatibility, whether it offers anything new in WP, etc. How it works, beyond basic functionality. (After all, AppleWorks mostly "works". It just works like an ugly, bad Carbon Port.)
IOW, the experience.
p.s. Glad to hear Pages will solve your highly irritating problems w/ Word. It's kind of amazing there hasn't been a lite DTP/Publisher-style program for the Mac for ages now.
I'm curious how the experience is using Pages in WP, and all the things Apple doesn't mention: headers + footers, document information, the Pages file format, success rate of .doc compatibility, whether it offers anything new in WP, etc. How it works, beyond basic functionality. (After all, AppleWorks mostly "works". It just works like an ugly, bad Carbon Port.)
Gonna need to get my hands on it at home to begin to answer these questions.
Headers and Footers seems important and many of the themes have what appear to be headers, so I think there must be some way to make H+F, even it is a little different than what I'm used to with Word.
I don't recall seeing any document info when testing it out. I guess if they don't have word count in there yet, then they probably don't have the other stuff yet either.
I can say that one thing that seemed really neat and polished was the whole switching between single and multiple columns of text. The app did a great job in not sending your graphics all over the place. There was good control of the margins when working with multiple columns.
I was never a Framemaker user, but I'm curious of what Framemaker users will think of Pages.
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
The URL you gave has a graphic about half way down which shows a pull down formatting menu for a paragraph, with the word "footer" in it.
So you can make a paragraph in the style of a "footer". But does that mean they do it like MS Word etc?
I agree with the person who noted that Steve said "With iWork, we're _building_ the successor to AppleWorks." Clearly they know they are not done.
Let's take the 6 pieces that make up the AppleWorks software: Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database, Drawing, Painting & Presentation: \t
1 - Word Processing: "Pages" clearly handles that, albeit maybe it will need to get to version 1.1 before some smaller missing items (like word count) are added. But we all agree that word processing is taken care of.
Use a service for word count. I have one that I cna't remember the name of (the menu item is Statistics) which does word count for any cocoa or services aware app.
Comments
Originally posted by Amorph
This is a great way for Apple to proof them first...
Just seems like they've had plenty of time to get these things out the door. With Keynote 2 and now Pages apparently using the same thing, how much more work does it take? Meh, nevermind me and my impatience.
Let's take the 6 pieces that make up the AppleWorks software: Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database, Drawing, Painting & Presentation: \t
1 - Word Processing: "Pages" clearly handles that, albeit maybe it will need to get to version 1.1 before some smaller missing items (like word count) are added. But we all agree that word processing is taken care of.
2 - Spreadsheet: Clearly missing, with rumors of "Cells". I have no doubt that Apple is working on something in their labs, and maybe "Cells" simply wasn't ready to debut just yet.
3 - Database: "Filemaker" does it, but is too complex and costly for mom and dad and the average person. Apple needs to create a "Filemaker Light" to bundle with iWork 2.0 that fills this need.
4 - Drawing & Painting: "iPhoto" & "Core Image" clearly show that Apple has all the knowledge and tools to edit& manipulate images, and do all the fancy stuff that Photoshop currently does. Why Apple doesn't release some sort of "MacPaint '05" application is unknown, but I think a very good idea.
5 - Presentation: Hello "Keynote".
To truly replace AppleWorks, Apple needs to supply Cells, Filemaker Light. MacPaint '05 ... until then, calling Pages and Keynote a "suite" seems a little overblown. I also think the extra "s" in "iWorks" makes the package sound significantly better than the singular "iWork" but what do I know?
So, how normal can Pages be? Can it be a Word-like app?
Leave it to Apple to "think different." You have to love the simplicity of the product. Almost too easy to use, Pages can help anyone create visually appealing content that looks professional. I'm about to sell a house and you better believe I'll be using Pages for the layout.
I also own a small web firm and often use Flash (instead of powerpoint) for my business proposals. However, Keynote adds just enough animated effects for me to skip using Flash as a proposal medium when I am in a crunch.
Now, with iPod Shuffle I can listen to 1GB of success tracks (selling, closing, etc.) while I am on my way to the client, then use it as a storage device for my flash/keynote presentations.
I do have one question, however. Keynote 2 can export flash, but can it import a flash animated sequence?
I don't care if Apple makes an Office competitor. I do want to see an Apple-based Microsoft Project competitor. Without a Project contender, business project management professionals will not be able to migrate completely to the Mac. I prefer Apple makes a MS Project competitor, but if Microsoft makes it, so be it. I just need the functionality to ditch my PC (acually, I will always develop flash on a PC until macromedia makes a flash iteration than can perform equally to the PC version).
Arondale
After reading some of your previous posts... you seem like someone who has some insight on the 'Research Community' (comments about EndNote and Graphing/Charting etc).
If I'm correct, do you feel Pages could be used by a "Principal Investigator Type" that is writing a grant? Grant writing is a pain to begin with and from what all the PI's I talk to say - MS Word isn't helping matters.
In short do you think Pages would be 'Better' 'Worse' or 'Same' when it comes to grant writing?
(yea I know - EndNote gives a clear advantage to Word but lets hope Niles and Associates steps up to the plate with Pages support - them or one of their competitors)
Dave
Originally posted by mat79
so Apple will continue to ship AppleWorks with new Macs and not iWork?
For the time being, seems so. I was quite surprised by that at first, but w/ a little reflection it makes sense... iWork is still really in a transitional period. I suspect the AW bundling may last up until all of the functionality of AW is replaced.
BTW, the lack of word count (if that's true) in Pages is really silly, but anyone can easily add word count (and much more!) for any Services-savvy app with the wonderful and free WordService. Add the modest APE module IceCoffee, if you dare, and you'll be in 7th heaven.
This is the addition that almost makes TextEdit a light WP. Almost.
Carson, can you (or anyone else from MWSF) report in more detail how Pages fares in the WP dept.? It was demo'd almost entirely as a surprisingly powerful lightweight DTP application... Which is great, but I'm curious if it's up to snuff for casual but solid WP usage.
I'll buy iWork. It's just what I've wanted minus a spreadsheet. I'll use AW until "Cells" comes out. I can hope Cells is introduced when Tiger comes out, that it just needs some of Tiger's frameworks. OTOH, I think that idea proposed earlier has merit. Sell the office suit in two separate packages. The name iWork sounds more like an iApp. Yet if it's beefed up with spreadsheet and more it will be like an Express or Pro application. Any speculation about this?
Originally posted by DaveGee
Carson,
After reading some of your previous posts... you seem like someone who has some insight on the 'Research Community' (comments about EndNote and Graphing/Charting etc).
If I'm correct, do you feel Pages could be used by a "Principal Investigator Type" that is writing a grant? Grant writing is a pain to begin with and from what all the PI's I talk to say - MS Word isn't helping matters.
In short do you think Pages would be 'Better' 'Worse' or 'Same' when it comes to grant writing?
(yea I know - EndNote gives a clear advantage to Word but lets hope Niles and Associates steps up to the plate with Pages support - them or one of their competitors)
Dave
Yes, I'm a scientist in academics-biomedical stuff. I write too many grants.
I'm hoping to replace MS Word, mostly because of the absolute pain Word is when dealing with pictures/graphics. I'm looking forward to having crisp straight lines again, instead of the fuzz i had to deal with since moving to Word X.
Page layout on grants is pretty simple stuff. Generally, they don't even let you use color. The rules usually regard page limitations, margins, font sizes and such. Other than the limitations in importing PDF into Word, the big problem with Word was the bad habit of graphics suddenly jumping pages when a space was added somewhere else. Hours can be spent on rearranging the order of the text and graphics to make it all fit. Sometimes I've been completely unable to get a figure to stay on one page, instead of the page before and after. I'm hoping Pages makes this all a lot easier. In my tryout at MWSF, I didn't get fancier than two graphics and a couple of pages of text, but the feel to the whole thing was great. It feels like Keynote. You can drag and drop your file in, add a text box for a legend, group the graphic and text box and then size and place were you want it.
The lack of word count will hopefully be fixed soon.
Semi-off topic EndNote bash:
EndNote is no longer owned by Niles&Associates. It has been bought out by Thomson Researchsoft (ISI). It has been going downhill ever since. Note these guys also own ProCite and Reference Manager. I've always been an Endnote user, but the point is they have a monopoly.
If and when they support pages with a plug in, it will take at least until the next version (about a year). I got this info from the rep at MWSF. They just came out with EndNote 8, which I'm reluctant to buy since they never fixed the serious bugs in version 7.
I'm sure Pages can be used with EndNote in the old fashion way: cut and paste the references and open the final document in Endnote to format.
Originally posted by Hobbes
Carson, can you (or anyone else from MWSF) report in more detail how Pages fares in the WP dept.? It was demo'd almost entirely as a surprisingly powerful lightweight DTP application... Which is great, but I'm curious if it's up to snuff for casual but solid WP usage.
I focused on how it handled inserting and manipulating graphics, so I'm not sure about all the WP functions. It is a WP, but the demo was showed the flashy side with all the nice colors and pictures. From what i saw, if you are familiar with Keynote, then you have a good idea of how things are laid out. The main functions are found in the inspector. Look at Apple's site for more info: http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
I focused on how it handled inserting and manipulating graphics, so I'm not sure about all the WP functions. It is a WP, but the demo was showed the flashy side with all the nice colors and pictures. From what i saw, if you are familiar with Keynote, then you have a good idea of how things are laid out. The main functions are found in the inspector. Look at Apple's site for more info: http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
Actually, haven't used Keynote, but think I have a decent idea how it looks, and how it's used.
I was hoping for a little more info on WP in Pages than from Apple's one-pager.
I'm curious how the experience is using Pages in WP, and all the things Apple doesn't mention: headers + footers, document information, the Pages file format, success rate of .doc compatibility, whether it offers anything new in WP, etc. How it works, beyond basic functionality. (After all, AppleWorks mostly "works". It just works like an ugly, bad Carbon Port.)
IOW, the experience.
p.s. Glad to hear Pages will solve your highly irritating problems w/ Word. It's kind of amazing there hasn't been a lite DTP/Publisher-style program for the Mac for ages now.
Originally posted by Ensoniq
calling Pages and Keynote a "suite" seems a little overblown.
Well, for the longest time the Microsoft Office "suite" was only Word and Excel, so...
Still, I agree with what you said.
Originally posted by Hobbes
I'm curious how the experience is using Pages in WP, and all the things Apple doesn't mention: headers + footers, document information, the Pages file format, success rate of .doc compatibility, whether it offers anything new in WP, etc. How it works, beyond basic functionality. (After all, AppleWorks mostly "works". It just works like an ugly, bad Carbon Port.)
Gonna need to get my hands on it at home to begin to answer these questions.
Headers and Footers seems important and many of the themes have what appear to be headers, so I think there must be some way to make H+F, even it is a little different than what I'm used to with Word.
I don't recall seeing any document info when testing it out. I guess if they don't have word count in there yet, then they probably don't have the other stuff yet either.
I can say that one thing that seemed really neat and polished was the whole switching between single and multiple columns of text. The app did a great job in not sending your graphics all over the place. There was good control of the margins when working with multiple columns.
I was never a Framemaker user, but I'm curious of what Framemaker users will think of Pages.
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Look at Apple's site for more info: http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/word.html
I think it has most WP functions. One thing I didn't check was if it supports headers and footers and how page numbers are dealt with. Did anyone look at these?
The URL you gave has a graphic about half way down which shows a pull down formatting menu for a paragraph, with the word "footer" in it.
So you can make a paragraph in the style of a "footer". But does that mean they do it like MS Word etc?
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Well, for the longest time the Microsoft Office "suite" was only Word and Excel, so...
Actually, if they sold Word and Excel in a bundle for $299., I might switch back.
I have no need for PowerPoint and Entourage.
Originally posted by GregAlexander
The URL you gave has a graphic about half way down which shows a pull down formatting menu for a paragraph, with the word "footer" in it.
So you can make a paragraph in the style of a "footer". But does that mean they do it like MS Word etc?
Yup, you're right. I just looked over the text without reading it.
Originally posted by Ensoniq
I agree with the person who noted that Steve said "With iWork, we're _building_ the successor to AppleWorks." Clearly they know they are not done.
Let's take the 6 pieces that make up the AppleWorks software: Word Processing, Spreadsheet, Database, Drawing, Painting & Presentation: \t
1 - Word Processing: "Pages" clearly handles that, albeit maybe it will need to get to version 1.1 before some smaller missing items (like word count) are added. But we all agree that word processing is taken care of.
Use a service for word count. I have one that I cna't remember the name of (the menu item is Statistics) which does word count for any cocoa or services aware app.
Amorya