Stupid question ahead....I know what embedded processors are and I know what discrete processors are.....what I don't know is physically what's the difference between the two processors? Can embedded processors easily be adapted to discrete processors?
To be honest, the G4 is merely called an embedded processor because the majority of it's users are in the embedded space. It is (was) a good processor in normal computer applications too, until it fell behind and tried to live off the side benefit of being quite low power.
The question is whether Apple would use these if you believe their switching to Intel within 6 months of these things in production.
If they're an easy replacement then we'll see them.
The other possibility is that the models going to Yonah earliest won't bother with these G4 chips, but models that aren't switching to Intel in early 2006 will get them (eg the iBooks might get the 7448 in November while the PowerBooks wait for Intel's Yonah a couple of months later)
I don't think we'll ever see the PPC 7448 in a Mini or an iBook. This is a new chip and it will be relatively expensive until about this time next year. IMHO Freescale will also sell a slightly higher than 1.7 GHz clockspeed to Apple.
I don't think we'll ever see the PPC 7448 in a Mini or an iBook. This is a new chip and it will be relatively expensive until about this time next year. IMHO Freescale will also sell a slightly higher than 1.7 GHz clockspeed to Apple.
I'll disagree with your first point and agree with the second.
If the iBook isn't updated till October/November it'll be a whole year without an update. I also can't see them just sticking a faster 7447 in there as they'd have to increase the PowerBook speed also and there's nowhere to go other than the 7448.
So I think we'll see 7448s at 1.7Ghz+ in the iBook/Mini and faster versions in the PowerBook, maybe even 2Ghz. I suspect they'll be available before October too. It wouldn't be the first time that Apple has had chips before Moto/Freescale has said they were available and also at speeds not listed in the specs. If they manage that, that'll be a very nice curtain bow for the PowerPC based laptops.
Pentium M gets low power by running as low as 300Mhz - which is good for battery life but if you're doing anything it soon eats power. If Freescale have got down to 10W at 1.4Ghz then it's a very cool laptop chip and bodes well for battery life.
I really hoped Apple hadn't described the intel switch as a switch but that they were adding intel in as a second platform. If Freescale does manage to get the 8xxx series out on time and at the speeds they quote then a PowerPC/Intel lineup is plausible and would have stopped the 'osbourne effect' and reassured existing PowerPC users that their kit won't be obsolete in a couple of years.
Intel must have offered Apple a really good deal or Jobs was mighty pissed off with PowerPC.
Yep, a whopping .03 GHz jump (at the high end of their frequency scale, nontheless) and a bit of a wattage reduction. Oh can't forget that massive 33MHz bus speed bump. Woo-fucking-hoo!
Bye bye Moto.
If Apple does bump the PowerBook one more time with the latest G4, they will sell like ice cubes to an eskimo. Man, fourth quarter (or whatever quarter the Fall is in) is going to suck. Missing those massive back-to-school sales this year is going to definitely hurt the bottom line, but I guess Apple had no choice when all they had to offer was the same lineup of Moto crap and more spank about IBM not being able to cool G5 down enough. PowerTuned-PowerBook, ah we longed for thee but alas, you were a fart in the wind.
Not wanting to toot Freescale's trumpet here but people have to remember that this announcement was to an embedded market as that's who Freescale aim all their processors at these days.
If you look at the specs of the current 7447A in Powerbooks on the Freescale site you'll see that it's top speed is 1.42Ghz yet Apple has 1.67Ghz versions. The embedded market is much more concerned with power usage and long CPU lifespan in often less than ideal conditions. They're very conservative as service costs are high there. That's not a big concern for a general purpose CPU. Is it just me that remembers Nokia saving a bundle in their phone exchange hardware because they switched to PPC and so got rid of all the fans which were the common component that broke down?
So Freescale announcing a 1.7Ghz part now to the embedded crowd, I think, means that they have faster versions still for non-embedded, less conservative, users (ie. Apple) as usual.
Apart from the 200Mhz bus, and that's not that big a deal really given it's usage, it's still quite a decent processor for a laptop. Sub 10w at 1.4Ghz according to the spec sheet. The 7447A uses 3 times the power at that speed. 1MB L2. Better power management modes.
If it wasn't for the Intel switch, I think we'd be quite enthusiastic to see these in the iBook, Mini and PowerBook 12" at least.
Apart from the 200Mhz bus, and that's not that big a deal really given it's usage, it's still quite a decent processor for a laptop. Sub 10w at 1.4Ghz according to the spec sheet. The 7447A uses 3 times the power at that speed. 1MB L2. Better power management modes.
What spec sheet are you reading from? Their MPC7448 link just shows the following comparison specs:
MPC7447A:
9.2W at 1167MHz (N-Spec = fast, ultra-low power)
21.0W at 1420MHz (L-Spec = faster, low power)
MPC7448:
<10W at >1.0GHz (N-Spec)
<15W at >1.5GHz (L-Spec)
So where is the 3x power savings? And what the hell is with the less-than and greater-than in those specs? Not quite sure = not even close to production. From what I read, the N-Specs are nearly the same, and the 7448 only gives (roughly) a one-third power savings.
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
If it wasn't for the Intel switch, I think we'd be quite enthusiastic to see these in the iBook, Mini and PowerBook 12" at least.
I really would not be impressed at all. I think the G5 would've gotten me enthusiastic, but not a G4 bump. Nope.
My balls have more power than the MPC7448, but just like IBM, it's not like I'll be able to mass-produce them.
All kidding aside, this whole "The G4 upgrades to the MPC7448" is a joke, right? If this is supposed to be a pristine example of Steve Jobs' "Great PPC products in the pipeline," then I have a feeling that it's going to be a lllllllloooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggg couple of years.
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Frankly, the release in late 2005 of a 1,7 ghz chip with 1 MB L2 cache, a stunning 200 mhz front bus, and an late 90 nm process, is not exciting at all. The PPC chips could have been great, but the people behind it, do not wanted to make the necessary investments in the desktop line. A Dothan is already 90 nm, has a 2 MB L 2 cache, a 400 mhz front bus and is clocked beyond 2 ghz now. Freescale is nearly one year behind ... Pathetic.
I agree. If getting anything like THIS into an Apple laptop was equal to (as an example) sex, then this new MPC7448 (that we won't even get for at least another four months) is equal to staring at frozen peas.
Well, promising is how I'd describe this CPU if it came out a year ago, but with the Intel switch Freescale's latest turd is all but useless.
Clockspeed is not too bad. Apple (and the upgrade manufacturers) currently get faster clocked versions of various G4s, so it's reasonable that the 7448 would be a 2 GHz chip in Apple's hands. That would be ok for low end crap like the Mini and the iBook, but pretty lame for the Powerbook; actually it's lame for any modern computer, but since I'm used to Apple's laptops being craptops with respect to performance, a 2 GHz G4 seems blazin'.
Power usage plain rocks, in fact, I could see Apple making a dual 7448 Powerbook using these chips. Why not? Two of them use only slightly more power than a single G4 from the early days of the Powerbook G4. Apple would get some street from having a dual CPU laptop, and once again have a POWERbook.
Ok that 200 MHz bus is just ridiculous with it's lack of support for even DDR RAM. How long has Moto/Freescale been using this craptacular mpx bus on the G4? 6 years? Is there some law of physics that Moto/Freescale would have to violate if they wanted to graft a real FSB onto the G4? This is no longer an issue of Freescale being unable to figure out how to design and implement a faster bus, it's an issue of Freescale choosing to use a totally obsolete FSB! Why even bother, Freescale? Just go back to the 100 MHz bus you were using in 1999 and cash in on the "vintage" marketing vibe. People LOVE vintage hardware, and I'm sure you people at Freescale would do great.
If getting anything like THIS into an Apple laptop was equal to (as an example) sex, then this new MPC7448 (that we won't even get for at least another four months) is equal to staring at frozen peas.
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile" Pentium 4 is going to die a rapid, painful, and well-deserved death as the M's descendants inherit the earth. This is what we drool for.
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile" Pentium 4 is going to die a rapid, painful, and well-deserved death as the M's descendants inherit the earth. This is what we drool for.
*Laughs* Good call. But seriously, I think the most appropriate line used thusfar is too little too late.
What spec sheet are you reading from? Their MPC7448 link just shows the following comparison specs:
MPC7447A:
9.2W at 1167MHz (N-Spec = fast, ultra-low power)
21.0W at 1420MHz (L-Spec = faster, low power)
MPC7448:
<10W at >1.0GHz (N-Spec)
<15W at >1.5GHz (L-Spec)
So where is the 3x power savings? And what the hell is with the less-than and greater-than in those specs? Not quite sure = not even close to production. From what I read, the N-Specs are nearly the same, and the 7448 only gives (roughly) a one-third power savings.
My apologies. The original article talked of sub 10W and didn't say they meant 'typical' instead of max or at what speed. The typical output on the 7447A is 21W but max is 30W so that's where I extrapolated to the 7448 being 3 times more efficient.
However, I still think we'll see faster versions than the announced 1.7Ghz appearing soon in Apple laptops. Got to ship something faster, and the 7448 is it.
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile" Pentium 4 is going to die a rapid, painful, and well-deserved death as the M's descendants inherit the earth. This is what we drool for.
The kind of sexy, svelte, cool and wide 12" iBook apple should be making, in the best iPod mini - esque traditions.
oh did i mention it's FANLESS ??!!!??
(yes, i think the optical drive is external... a minor niggle)
Other minor niggles include,
1.1Ghz CPU.
The hard drive is a 1.8" 4200rpm drive from an iPod
And that it's identical to the Dell X1 as Dell rebadged the Q30.
No floppy drive
I like the screen though.
But yes, it does show that it's possible to build some very small intel based laptops so a future iBook could be nice and small. I might yet see my much wanted iBook-Mini.
The screen resolution works out to 123 dpi. That's way higher than most people can comfortably read. For 1280 X 768, you pretty much need a 15 inch diagonal screen.
Comments
Originally posted by FireDancer
Stupid question ahead....I know what embedded processors are and I know what discrete processors are.....what I don't know is physically what's the difference between the two processors? Can embedded processors easily be adapted to discrete processors?
To be honest, the G4 is merely called an embedded processor because the majority of it's users are in the embedded space. It is (was) a good processor in normal computer applications too, until it fell behind and tried to live off the side benefit of being quite low power.
Originally posted by Louzer
The question is whether Apple would use these if you believe their switching to Intel within 6 months of these things in production.
If they're an easy replacement then we'll see them.
The other possibility is that the models going to Yonah earliest won't bother with these G4 chips, but models that aren't switching to Intel in early 2006 will get them (eg the iBooks might get the 7448 in November while the PowerBooks wait for Intel's Yonah a couple of months later)
Originally posted by Maddan
I don't think we'll ever see the PPC 7448 in a Mini or an iBook. This is a new chip and it will be relatively expensive until about this time next year. IMHO Freescale will also sell a slightly higher than 1.7 GHz clockspeed to Apple.
I'll disagree with your first point and agree with the second.
If the iBook isn't updated till October/November it'll be a whole year without an update. I also can't see them just sticking a faster 7447 in there as they'd have to increase the PowerBook speed also and there's nowhere to go other than the 7448.
So I think we'll see 7448s at 1.7Ghz+ in the iBook/Mini and faster versions in the PowerBook, maybe even 2Ghz. I suspect they'll be available before October too. It wouldn't be the first time that Apple has had chips before Moto/Freescale has said they were available and also at speeds not listed in the specs. If they manage that, that'll be a very nice curtain bow for the PowerPC based laptops.
Pentium M gets low power by running as low as 300Mhz - which is good for battery life but if you're doing anything it soon eats power. If Freescale have got down to 10W at 1.4Ghz then it's a very cool laptop chip and bodes well for battery life.
I really hoped Apple hadn't described the intel switch as a switch but that they were adding intel in as a second platform. If Freescale does manage to get the 8xxx series out on time and at the speeds they quote then a PowerPC/Intel lineup is plausible and would have stopped the 'osbourne effect' and reassured existing PowerPC users that their kit won't be obsolete in a couple of years.
Intel must have offered Apple a really good deal or Jobs was mighty pissed off with PowerPC.
Bye bye Moto.
If Apple does bump the PowerBook one more time with the latest G4, they will sell like ice cubes to an eskimo. Man, fourth quarter (or whatever quarter the Fall is in) is going to suck. Missing those massive back-to-school sales this year is going to definitely hurt the bottom line, but I guess Apple had no choice when all they had to offer was the same lineup of Moto crap and more spank about IBM not being able to cool G5 down enough. PowerTuned-PowerBook, ah we longed for thee but alas, you were a fart in the wind.
If you look at the specs of the current 7447A in Powerbooks on the Freescale site you'll see that it's top speed is 1.42Ghz yet Apple has 1.67Ghz versions. The embedded market is much more concerned with power usage and long CPU lifespan in often less than ideal conditions. They're very conservative as service costs are high there. That's not a big concern for a general purpose CPU. Is it just me that remembers Nokia saving a bundle in their phone exchange hardware because they switched to PPC and so got rid of all the fans which were the common component that broke down?
So Freescale announcing a 1.7Ghz part now to the embedded crowd, I think, means that they have faster versions still for non-embedded, less conservative, users (ie. Apple) as usual.
Apart from the 200Mhz bus, and that's not that big a deal really given it's usage, it's still quite a decent processor for a laptop. Sub 10w at 1.4Ghz according to the spec sheet. The 7447A uses 3 times the power at that speed. 1MB L2. Better power management modes.
If it wasn't for the Intel switch, I think we'd be quite enthusiastic to see these in the iBook, Mini and PowerBook 12" at least.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Apart from the 200Mhz bus, and that's not that big a deal really given it's usage, it's still quite a decent processor for a laptop. Sub 10w at 1.4Ghz according to the spec sheet. The 7447A uses 3 times the power at that speed. 1MB L2. Better power management modes.
What spec sheet are you reading from? Their MPC7448 link just shows the following comparison specs:
MPC7447A:
9.2W at 1167MHz (N-Spec = fast, ultra-low power)
21.0W at 1420MHz (L-Spec = faster, low power)
MPC7448:
<10W at >1.0GHz (N-Spec)
<15W at >1.5GHz (L-Spec)
So where is the 3x power savings? And what the hell is with the less-than and greater-than in those specs? Not quite sure = not even close to production. From what I read, the N-Specs are nearly the same, and the 7448 only gives (roughly) a one-third power savings.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
If it wasn't for the Intel switch, I think we'd be quite enthusiastic to see these in the iBook, Mini and PowerBook 12" at least.
I really would not be impressed at all. I think the G5 would've gotten me enthusiastic, but not a G4 bump. Nope.
Originally posted by Kasper
"The most significant update" -- those were Freescale's words, not ours
And that was a misplaced "and" that was corrected immediately.
Thanks,
Kasper
Kasper, appreciate the hard work you all have been putting into AppleInsider, and thanks for calming me down about 12 hours ago
umm.. The title should read "....destined for Apple laptops"
i'm going to suggest a question mark at the end of the title as well
Take care matey
Originally posted by BRussell
Cool, let's switch back to PowerPC.
Ha Ha, For get the G5 and intel and stay with the G4? Hmmm, I don't think so.
All kidding aside, this whole "The G4 upgrades to the MPC7448" is a joke, right? If this is supposed to be a pristine example of Steve Jobs' "Great PPC products in the pipeline," then I have a feeling that it's going to be a lllllllloooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggg couple of years.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Frankly, the release in late 2005 of a 1,7 ghz chip with 1 MB L2 cache, a stunning 200 mhz front bus, and an late 90 nm process, is not exciting at all. The PPC chips could have been great, but the people behind it, do not wanted to make the necessary investments in the desktop line. A Dothan is already 90 nm, has a 2 MB L 2 cache, a 400 mhz front bus and is clocked beyond 2 ghz now. Freescale is nearly one year behind ... Pathetic.
I agree. If getting anything like THIS into an Apple laptop was equal to (as an example) sex, then this new MPC7448 (that we won't even get for at least another four months) is equal to staring at frozen peas.
Clockspeed is not too bad. Apple (and the upgrade manufacturers) currently get faster clocked versions of various G4s, so it's reasonable that the 7448 would be a 2 GHz chip in Apple's hands. That would be ok for low end crap like the Mini and the iBook, but pretty lame for the Powerbook; actually it's lame for any modern computer, but since I'm used to Apple's laptops being craptops with respect to performance, a 2 GHz G4 seems blazin'.
Power usage plain rocks, in fact, I could see Apple making a dual 7448 Powerbook using these chips. Why not? Two of them use only slightly more power than a single G4 from the early days of the Powerbook G4. Apple would get some street from having a dual CPU laptop, and once again have a POWERbook.
Ok that 200 MHz bus is just ridiculous with it's lack of support for even DDR RAM. How long has Moto/Freescale been using this craptacular mpx bus on the G4? 6 years? Is there some law of physics that Moto/Freescale would have to violate if they wanted to graft a real FSB onto the G4? This is no longer an issue of Freescale being unable to figure out how to design and implement a faster bus, it's an issue of Freescale choosing to use a totally obsolete FSB! Why even bother, Freescale? Just go back to the 100 MHz bus you were using in 1999 and cash in on the "vintage" marketing vibe. People LOVE vintage hardware, and I'm sure you people at Freescale would do great.
Originally posted by 00100011
If getting anything like THIS into an Apple laptop was equal to (as an example) sex, then this new MPC7448 (that we won't even get for at least another four months) is equal to staring at frozen peas.
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile"
<rant deleted>
nothing to see here, move along
Originally posted by Towel
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". ....
ROFLMAO
Originally posted by Towel
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile"
*Laughs* Good call. But seriously, I think the most appropriate line used thusfar is too little too late.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
What spec sheet are you reading from? Their MPC7448 link just shows the following comparison specs:
MPC7447A:
9.2W at 1167MHz (N-Spec = fast, ultra-low power)
21.0W at 1420MHz (L-Spec = faster, low power)
MPC7448:
<10W at >1.0GHz (N-Spec)
<15W at >1.5GHz (L-Spec)
So where is the 3x power savings? And what the hell is with the less-than and greater-than in those specs? Not quite sure = not even close to production. From what I read, the N-Specs are nearly the same, and the 7448 only gives (roughly) a one-third power savings.
My apologies. The original article talked of sub 10W and didn't say they meant 'typical' instead of max or at what speed. The typical output on the 7447A is 21W but max is 30W so that's where I extrapolated to the 7448 being 3 times more efficient.
However, I still think we'll see faster versions than the announced 1.7Ghz appearing soon in Apple laptops. Got to ship something faster, and the 7448 is it.
Originally posted by Towel
Only if "sex" means "roast my balls into walnuts during the five minutes the battery lasts". The "mobile"
yes, pentium M is da bomb..!
This my friend, is 12 inches of sex.
http://www.samsungcomputer.com/product/feature_q.htm
The kind of sexy, svelte, cool and wide 12" iBook apple should be making, in the best iPod mini - esque traditions.
oh did i mention it's FANLESS ??!!!??
(yes, i think the optical drive is external... a minor niggle)
Originally posted by sunilraman
yes, pentium M is da bomb..!
This my friend, is 12 inches of sex.
http://www.samsungcomputer.com/product/feature_q.htm
The kind of sexy, svelte, cool and wide 12" iBook apple should be making, in the best iPod mini - esque traditions.
oh did i mention it's FANLESS ??!!!??
(yes, i think the optical drive is external... a minor niggle)
Other minor niggles include,
1.1Ghz CPU.
The hard drive is a 1.8" 4200rpm drive from an iPod
And that it's identical to the Dell X1 as Dell rebadged the Q30.
No floppy drive
I like the screen though.
But yes, it does show that it's possible to build some very small intel based laptops so a future iBook could be nice and small. I might yet see my much wanted iBook-Mini.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I like the screen though.
The screen resolution works out to 123 dpi. That's way higher than most people can comfortably read. For 1280 X 768, you pretty much need a 15 inch diagonal screen.