Let me refresh a little your memory . Look at slide 41. For the 7448 it says samples 1H-05, production 2H-05. For the 8641 family, samples 2H-05, production 1H-06.
Wow. I'm getting old. Well, I'm going on vacation and see you guys in 2 weeks!
Well, promising is how I'd describe this CPU if it came out a year ago, but with the Intel switch Freescale's latest turd is all but useless.
Clockspeed is not too bad. Apple (and the upgrade manufacturers) currently get faster clocked versions of various G4s, so it's reasonable that the 7448 would be a 2 GHz chip in Apple's hands. That would be ok for low end crap like the Mini and the iBook, but pretty lame for the Powerbook; actually it's lame for any modern computer, but since I'm used to Apple's laptops being craptops with respect to performance, a 2 GHz G4 seems blazin'.
Power usage plain rocks, in fact, I could see Apple making a dual 7448 Powerbook using these chips. Why not? Two of them use only slightly more power than a single G4 from the early days of the Powerbook G4. Apple would get some street from having a dual CPU laptop, and once again have a POWERbook.
Ok that 200 MHz bus is just ridiculous with it's lack of support for even DDR RAM. How long has Moto/Freescale been using this craptacular mpx bus on the G4? 6 years? Is there some law of physics that Moto/Freescale would have to violate if they wanted to graft a real FSB onto the G4? This is no longer an issue of Freescale being unable to figure out how to design and implement a faster bus, it's an issue of Freescale choosing to use a totally obsolete FSB! Why even bother, Freescale? Just go back to the 100 MHz bus you were using in 1999 and cash in on the "vintage" marketing vibe. People LOVE vintage hardware, and I'm sure you people at Freescale would do great.
Can you tell us how much speed would we gain with DDR support. If I remember at the time as AMD made a transition from 133 FSB to 133 DDR FSB the overal speed gain was between 3-10%. If g4 will be redisign to support DDR bus you will loose a drop in replacement.
This looks interesting to me. I'll buy a new PB this fall/winter to replace a 1.25GHz Aluminum PB. I am already very happy with this PB, faster CPU, longer battery life plus all the other improvements that come with a newer machine will be much appreciated.
I earn my living with my PB. I'd rather get the last G4 PB than the first intel PB.
The screen resolution works out to 123 dpi. That's way higher than most people can comfortably read. For 1280 X 768, you pretty much need a 15 inch diagonal screen.
So use bigger fonts.
There's a fair amount of Tiger that is resolution independent.
So the 7448 will be a drop in replacement of the 7447?
does this mean if i were to get my hands on a 7448 i could pop the casing of my pb and take out the 7447 and put in the more power effecient 7448? im very new to the mac world...i build customme pcs and i kno all the chipset and socket info for those but am not sure about macs in this deptment. thanks
Has Apple ever announced new PB/iBooks or even any other Macs before the availability of the new chipset was advertised by then chip-maker?
Given current level of Apple secrecy - are you all afraid you all barking up the wrong bush here...
I mean before the WWDC - everbody was G5 PB this (OK only the naive), or 7448 PB/iBook that or even dual G4 (whatever the number is..) PB.. All coming up for sure.. Upto the day of Keynote.
... And then we got Intel Mac...
Now 60% in the AI survey says no new PB PPC....
Just face it apart from G5 PB.. who knows?...
Personally, I think there will be some kind of update soon just to kick-start the market and make the masses forget about intel for while....
Personally, I think there will be some kind of update soon just to kick-start the market and make the masses forget about intel for while....
I completely agree... since the intel laptops are right around the corner... it doesn't make any sense to do a complete redesign at this point. Any updates will just be a drop in replacement... IE the 7448 makes a perfect solution. It gives it a good bump for a few months.
Only problem with this is apple isn't going to want to buy a lot of these chips sicne it is dropping the ppc architecture... so these chips would be useless to apple in a few years. This could be the reason freescale aimed this at the embedded market.
So the 7448 will be a drop in replacement of the 7447?
does this mean if i were to get my hands on a 7448 i could pop the casing of my pb and take out the 7447 and put in the more power effecient 7448? im very new to the mac world...i build customme pcs and i kno all the chipset and socket info for those but am not sure about macs in this deptment. thanks
Only if you have surface mount soldering facilities. Laptops, of pretty much any kind, don't use socketed chips. Firstly, they take up too much room and secondly, the amount of movement a laptop takes would deseat the chips in no time.
As I'm no native speaker please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't freescale already confirm that the 7448 will find it's way into the iBook and the mini?
Laptops, of pretty much any kind, don't use socketed chips. Firstly, they take up too much room and secondly, the amount of movement a laptop takes would deseat the chips in no time.
You talk obviously about current laptops. If my memory does not tricks me, the last Powerbook that was CPU-upgradeable by the user (CPU on daughtercard) was the Pismo. And I don't remember of any problems like CPU popping up while moving the computer, though having difficulties to get the new CPU to work properly was not uncommon.
But yes, CPU on daughtercard means generally a more bulky and less reliable laptop.
Apple only represents about 3 percent of Freescale's total revenue and only 2 percent of its wafer production, Doke said.
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
You better update those powerbooks before you update the iBooks if you're talking about sticking a 7448 in the iBooks.
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
Don't get your hopes up, remember the physics and what Freescale produces.
2% of Freescale's wafers and 3% of revenue may not sound a lot, but they produce a lot of other products. In 32 bit products alone there are PowerPC host processors, PowerQUIC embedded controllers, ColdFire (68k) controllers and ARM processors. This doesn't include memory parts, analog parts, comm parts, etc. The G4 processors are indeed a small part of their portfolio.
However, Apple always wants the fastest G4 parts coming out of the fab, and these parts are typically rarer (lower yield) than the lower GHz parts, especially when it's the first run of product coming out of a new fab. I would not be surprised if Freescale couldn't produce hundreds of thousands of 1.7+ GHz 7448 per quarter for the first couple of quarters.
I'm sure they could produce millions of 1.4 GHz 7448 processors in October though, but Apple doesn't really need those as much as they need higher GHz products don't they (assuming they can actually produce a <30 Watts max 1.8 GHz 7448 CPU).
Those complaining about the anemic FSB, etc. of the 7448 don't seem to realize that the 8641 addresses those problems. However the 8641 requires a new motherboard and probably will come out about the same time as Intel's Yonah.
Also it looks like Apple sees a problem with the Pentium-M. My guess is the vector processing unit, a problem Intel expects Yonah to solve.
People who expect to see Apple-ised versions of Intel processors need to get it into their heads...Altivec was good for what it did but now it is gone. Yonah will not have complex SIMD (aka Altivec) on-die. Improved vector functions may make it onto successors to Yonah but that is pure speculation at this point.
Move on to x-86 land and the realisation that you don't need to use Altivec as a rhetorical argument for supporting Apple's choice of CPU anymore.
Comments
Originally posted by PB
Let me refresh a little your memory
Wow. I'm getting old. Well, I'm going on vacation and see you guys in 2 weeks!
Originally posted by THT
Wow. I'm getting old. Well, I'm going on vacation and see you guys in 2 weeks!
enjoy yourself
hopefully there'll be new iBooks when you come back
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Well, promising is how I'd describe this CPU if it came out a year ago, but with the Intel switch Freescale's latest turd is all but useless.
Clockspeed is not too bad. Apple (and the upgrade manufacturers) currently get faster clocked versions of various G4s, so it's reasonable that the 7448 would be a 2 GHz chip in Apple's hands. That would be ok for low end crap like the Mini and the iBook, but pretty lame for the Powerbook; actually it's lame for any modern computer, but since I'm used to Apple's laptops being craptops with respect to performance, a 2 GHz G4 seems blazin'.
Power usage plain rocks, in fact, I could see Apple making a dual 7448 Powerbook using these chips. Why not? Two of them use only slightly more power than a single G4 from the early days of the Powerbook G4. Apple would get some street from having a dual CPU laptop, and once again have a POWERbook.
Ok that 200 MHz bus is just ridiculous with it's lack of support for even DDR RAM. How long has Moto/Freescale been using this craptacular mpx bus on the G4? 6 years? Is there some law of physics that Moto/Freescale would have to violate if they wanted to graft a real FSB onto the G4? This is no longer an issue of Freescale being unable to figure out how to design and implement a faster bus, it's an issue of Freescale choosing to use a totally obsolete FSB! Why even bother, Freescale? Just go back to the 100 MHz bus you were using in 1999 and cash in on the "vintage" marketing vibe. People LOVE vintage hardware, and I'm sure you people at Freescale would do great.
Can you tell us how much speed would we gain with DDR support. If I remember at the time as AMD made a transition from 133 FSB to 133 DDR FSB the overal speed gain was between 3-10%. If g4 will be redisign to support DDR bus you will loose a drop in replacement.
Rooster
I earn my living with my PB. I'd rather get the last G4 PB than the first intel PB.
Originally posted by Hudson1
The screen resolution works out to 123 dpi. That's way higher than most people can comfortably read. For 1280 X 768, you pretty much need a 15 inch diagonal screen.
So use bigger fonts.
There's a fair amount of Tiger that is resolution independent.
does this mean if i were to get my hands on a 7448 i could pop the casing of my pb and take out the 7447 and put in the more power effecient 7448? im very new to the mac world...i build customme pcs and i kno all the chipset and socket info for those but am not sure about macs in this deptment. thanks
Has Apple ever announced new PB/iBooks or even any other Macs before the availability of the new chipset was advertised by then chip-maker?
Given current level of Apple secrecy - are you all afraid you all barking up the wrong bush here...
I mean before the WWDC - everbody was G5 PB this (OK only the naive), or 7448 PB/iBook that or even dual G4 (whatever the number is..) PB.. All coming up for sure.. Upto the day of Keynote.
... And then we got Intel Mac...
Now 60% in the AI survey says no new PB PPC....
Just face it apart from G5 PB.. who knows?...
Personally, I think there will be some kind of update soon just to kick-start the market and make the masses forget about intel for while....
Originally posted by OfficerDigby
Personally, I think there will be some kind of update soon just to kick-start the market and make the masses forget about intel for while....
I completely agree... since the intel laptops are right around the corner... it doesn't make any sense to do a complete redesign at this point. Any updates will just be a drop in replacement... IE the 7448 makes a perfect solution. It gives it a good bump for a few months.
Only problem with this is apple isn't going to want to buy a lot of these chips sicne it is dropping the ppc architecture... so these chips would be useless to apple in a few years. This could be the reason freescale aimed this at the embedded market.
Originally posted by chris000001
So the 7448 will be a drop in replacement of the 7447?
does this mean if i were to get my hands on a 7448 i could pop the casing of my pb and take out the 7447 and put in the more power effecient 7448? im very new to the mac world...i build customme pcs and i kno all the chipset and socket info for those but am not sure about macs in this deptment. thanks
Only if you have surface mount soldering facilities. Laptops, of pretty much any kind, don't use socketed chips. Firstly, they take up too much room and secondly, the amount of movement a laptop takes would deseat the chips in no time.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So use bigger fonts.
There's a fair amount of Tiger that is resolution independent.
Just how well do you think Tiger will run on that Samsung notebook?
http://news.com.com/Cheers,+jeers+fo...3-5734339.html
End of Line
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Laptops, of pretty much any kind, don't use socketed chips. Firstly, they take up too much room and secondly, the amount of movement a laptop takes would deseat the chips in no time.
You talk obviously about current laptops. If my memory does not tricks me, the last Powerbook that was CPU-upgradeable by the user (CPU on daughtercard) was the Pismo. And I don't remember of any problems like CPU popping up while moving the computer, though having difficulties to get the new CPU to work properly was not uncommon.
But yes, CPU on daughtercard means generally a more bulky and less reliable laptop.
Apple only represents about 3 percent of Freescale's total revenue and only 2 percent of its wafer production, Doke said.
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
Originally posted by Hattig
From a link someone gave higher up:
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
You better update those powerbooks before you update the iBooks if you're talking about sticking a 7448 in the iBooks.
Originally posted by Hattig
This gives me extra hope for new iBooks and Mac Minis sooner rather than later. Mass production in Q3 as Freescale said would suck. But at 2% ... that ain't mass production, that's something they have probably been able to supply for a couple of months already.
Don't get your hopes up, remember the physics and what Freescale produces.
2% of Freescale's wafers and 3% of revenue may not sound a lot, but they produce a lot of other products. In 32 bit products alone there are PowerPC host processors, PowerQUIC embedded controllers, ColdFire (68k) controllers and ARM processors. This doesn't include memory parts, analog parts, comm parts, etc. The G4 processors are indeed a small part of their portfolio.
However, Apple always wants the fastest G4 parts coming out of the fab, and these parts are typically rarer (lower yield) than the lower GHz parts, especially when it's the first run of product coming out of a new fab. I would not be surprised if Freescale couldn't produce hundreds of thousands of 1.7+ GHz 7448 per quarter for the first couple of quarters.
I'm sure they could produce millions of 1.4 GHz 7448 processors in October though, but Apple doesn't really need those as much as they need higher GHz products don't they (assuming they can actually produce a <30 Watts max 1.8 GHz 7448 CPU).
Also it looks like Apple sees a problem with the Pentium-M. My guess is the vector processing unit, a problem Intel expects Yonah to solve.
Originally posted by Maddan
Also it looks like Apple sees a problem with the Pentium-M. My guess is the vector processing unit, a problem Intel expects Yonah to solve.
Umm where did you get this information?
Originally posted by emig647
Umm where did you get this information?
Wishful thinking has my vote
People who expect to see Apple-ised versions of Intel processors need to get it into their heads...Altivec was good for what it did but now it is gone. Yonah will not have complex SIMD (aka Altivec) on-die. Improved vector functions may make it onto successors to Yonah but that is pure speculation at this point.
Move on to x-86 land and the realisation that you don't need to use Altivec as a rhetorical argument for supporting Apple's choice of CPU anymore.
I'll repeat for emphasis...move on.
Originally posted by a j stev
.....
Move on to x-86 land and the realisation that you don't need to use Altivec as a rhetorical argument for supporting Apple's choice of CPU anymore.
I'll repeat for emphasis...move on.
*sigh* at this stage asking me to drop altivec is like cutting off my left testicle
give us time, my friend, just a bit of time, maybe 'till the end of the year...