its funny that you claim im trolling while everything coming out of your mouth holds as much weight as it does coming out of mine.
If you meant we have displayed the same amount of credentials, then you'd be right. I have some, but there's no point to ad hominem arguments. On the content, you are demonstrably wrong on several points.
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everything you have said is a matter of opinion, besides the ps2 losing money.
Wrong. I put out a number of hard facts. Examples follow:
- Katamari Damacy is a casual game as opposed to a hardcore game like you claimed. So are, in fact, the dance games for which you made the same claim.
Proof: google for "casual game definition" and see what comes up. Or pick up a book on the subject of game design.
- Dead or Alive is lacking in deep gameplay in comparison to top fighting games, as evidenced by the experiences of hardcore players, the game's non-presence in tournaments, and lack of strong communities.
Proof: browse tournament listings at shoryuken.com and see how many major tournaments it has been played at.
- Dead or Alive is not comparable to Tekken as a brand.
Proof: Hit Google. Tekken has sold over 20 million copies. I couldn't find an exact number for DoA, but it's roughly 2 million for DoA2, 1 million for DoA3. I would put an estimate at <4 million.
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even though you commit fallacy after fallacy you like to point out mine
That's nice. What specific fallacies would you be talking about, mr. "DoA Beach Volleyball equals Tekken"?
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not to mention you really gotta be a lame ass to pick out capitalization and spelling errors
don't be that guy.
I didn't "pick out" any errors, which would be pointless in any case since your posts are riddled with them. Being written poorly makes the posts harder to read, but the main thing is, if you don't bother to write normal English, it appears you don't give a damn about the discussion or respect your fellow forumites. If this was actual inability to spell or write, that would be different, but your output is not that of a dyslexic. If there was some content that was accurate, insightful, or interesting, I would not care about the form it's delivered in. But there isn't.
(from a post I made to AppleInsider in a HD DVD Blu-Ray discussion.)
It seems at this time that BR is on top. All the major studios except Universal have committed to it. Three exclusively and two will do both. Three have committed to HD, one exclusively and the same two will do both. Most computer companies committed to BR. There are at least four manufacturing companies demoing drives vs one for Hd.
BR will come out with drives by spring that both record 25GB R/RE, and 50GB R/RE. They might do double sided, but haven't said. They playback 25 and 50GB single side, and 100GB two sided. They can get a full Hi-def movie plus specials plus a standard DVD movie on one side with a label on the other.
HD will come out with drives end of first quarter or sometime second quarter. It will play 15 and 30GB on one side. Maybe there will be two sided 60GB disks at release, maybe not. It will play a hi-def movie with extras on one side, but the standard DVD must be on the second side. No label. Recorders won't be out at first. They will come "later". When they do come out they will record a 20GB RE, and if they are ready a 15GB R. Eventually they may record 30GB R's but they say it might take years. They also haven't said anything about two sided recordable disks.
HD will have "mandatory" managed copy. What we know about it so far is that it will require an internet connection to be able to do it. The consensus is that they will charge. How much? They don't say. Probably case by case.
BR also has managed copy, but haven't said whether it will be "mandatory" The guess is that it will be up to the studios.
There are other features that BR has as well that HD doesn't. One of the reasons the HD Assoc gave for the delay to next year was that they were adding "features" - the same ones that BR has already.
The 360 will have a DVD, no HD DVD. The PS3 will have Blu-Ray. Paramount and other studios have said that one of the reasons they chose BR was because of that.
Intel has no influence over this process, and it's new attempts to mediate has been called "tainted".
MS has a lot to lose if BR becomes standard as they chose to use the industry developed BD-Java as opposed to MS's iHD, which they call "developmental", i.e. - unfinished and buggy, and that it also "didn't go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network."
This is in the Panasonic press release as well as the one from HP and Paramount, and also from the two association sites.
EDIT: I just wanted to add that none of what I said is my own opinion. All of it is public.
This is all sound and fury. These formats are both bullshit. We're going to move from DVD to web distribution. DVD will remain adequate for a long time for the luddites and poor people.
This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.
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For us it's not the physical format. Understand that this is the last physical format there will ever be. Everything's going to be streamed directly or on a hard disk. So, in this way, it's even unclear how much this one counts.
These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.
Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"
How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?
The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).
e#s:
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.
Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...
Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).
It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.
you've always been a sensible guy but today you kicked it up a notch. %100 spot on.
Frankly both formats are pissing me off. The content providers are pissing me off. The hardware companies are pissing me off.
I'm seeing greed and the avarical desire supercede any notion of what the consumer might actually want. You know it's pretty freakin' bad with the King of DRM Microsoft has to tell the BDA to back off. Think about that...a company that has DRM up to the monitor has to tell Sony to back off with the DRM...that's a riot.
A dark horse is out there. It could be IPTV or some other movie delivery system but I sense a change coming. I sense the established hegemony being blindsided by the independents.
The only thing we need is very fast broadband (24-50Mbps) and enough brains to turn the damn TV off and find some thoughtful enterainment.
These content companies don't realize the buzzsaw their running into. Already I can by a Roku Labs Soundbridge radio and bypass AM/FM altogher.
When the lines blur between broadcast tv/radio and internetcast you will see a shift in the balance of power. Like osmosis, consumers will flow to the format that gives them the most choice and flexibility.
If they price BR and HD DVD movies at $30 expect a large Meh! from consumers as they stick with DVD and upconverting DVD players.
More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...
Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).
It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.
This is all sound and fury. These formats are both bullshit. We're going to move from DVD to web distribution. DVD will remain adequate for a long time for the luddites and poor people.
This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.
These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.
Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"
How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?
The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).
e#s:
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.
Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Don't get so upset. This is just entertainment.
We aren't going to decide anyway. Besides, it will take two years until we see if it's going to be sucessful.
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Uh, well... me? Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.
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...he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.
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There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Here we agree. I do want to see a slick way to present media from the computer (possibly acquired via network) to my entertainment system(s) while the computer is in use by somebody else, however. That still hasn't been done right, although not for lack of trying.
In the UK its only recent that LCD TVs have caught on, with 22" sets going for £500ish. Now HD LCD is being hyped but the specs are no different, except 22" is more like £1000 for the same resolution.
With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.
In the UK its only recent that LCD TVs have caught on, with 22" sets going for £500ish. Now HD LCD is being hyped but the specs are no different, except 22" is more like £1000 for the same resolution.
With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.
I'll be buying a PS3 though.
There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.
So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.
There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.
So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.
Oh the specs are there, but the damn silly HDCP connector isn't. My LCD could happily show 720 but there is no way to get the signal in.
It's this that will put people off, most LCDs here have SCART and VGA inputs which means no HDTV.
Why pay $500 for a PS3 that is less powerful and has less software than a $300 PC that you're already familiar with?
The PS3 is a game machine. That's what it is. Kuturagi is coming out with marketing tripe because this thing is going to be stupid expensive and he needs to pump up the hype as much as possible to justify it.
Also, for the vast majority of people the idea of spending more than $500 on a television is insanity. People out there have underpaying jobs and kids and plenty of other fixed costs. The idea that a $500 video game machine with its multi-thousand dollar tagalongs is going to take over?
Right now HDTV is ~10% market share. Industry hopefuls see 50+% by 2008, three years from now.
Big, ugly burn-out prone DLP boxes are going to turn wives off. They already hate CRTs enough, they don't need something even bigger making their living rooms look terrible. And I do not blame them. Projection is dying (sales are falling, plasma is rising).
It's all flat-screen from here on out. Once we see quality 30"-40" LCD/Plasma/SED(wetdream) HDTVs in the sub-$1k range we'll start thinking about how truly necessary HD movie media is. And if we're not already getting a ton of HD content over the Internet by 2008 I'm going to kill Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both with my bare hands.
Programmer:
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Uh, well... me?
Fantastic. Welcome to the niche.
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Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.
It has to be a landslide to get market penetration. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD are going to offer absolutely no picture quality advantage on an SDTV or EDTV. And the vast majority of all televisions already installed are SD or ED. The vast majority of televisions selling right now are SD or ED.
DVD was so great because it offered to max out the quality your SD television could put out and it still impresses people because they still mostly watch cable/sat television which is lesser quality than DVD.
If you've got an SDTV or EDTV (which 90%+ of people do), Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is just pouring money and picture quality down the drain. They are not going to do it because there is no advantage to them.
The cost of entry isn't just the price of the media and players, it's the price of the television(s). This cannot be ignored.
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No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.
But if you don't even have an HDTV what is the point?
And if you're cutting edge enough to have an HDTV, why waste time with stupid optical discs when you can just get everything over the Internet?
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could get big if the studios simply stonewall all attempts to get movies (HD or otherwise) online. That's really the only way.
If either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD make it, you should probably be so pissed off at the greedy bastard studios that you just pirate everything anyway. It will be a sign that something is bad wrong.
These things are stop-gaps, band-aids. Little paper bridges between the present and future.
And with that in mind, I think the real-world costs of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD should come to mind.
If it's a bridge you're just going to end up tearing down, why not make it as utilitarian and cheap as possible?
I purchased my hdtv 3 years ago. I got it because I knew that I would be upgrading to a cable hd package as soon as I could. For about the first year, the only hd content going into my tv was from my xbox. Now I have hd via comcast, and I want more. I love my hd pvr, and I record a ton of primetime in hd.
I am currently a senior in college, not making uber amounts of money, and am completly supporting myself. I would love to buy a first gen high def dvd player, and will probably save money for one. I want hd content, and as much as I can get of it.
I have no problem repurchashing some of my dvds (such as lotr, star wars, matrix, etc). I am not going to repurchase everything. And all my future purchases (once available) of new releases will be high def disks.
I think it is naieve to say that next gen dvd format will fail completly. There is such a drastic difference quality wise between sd and hd. Yes, I know you need a hdtv to see this, but hd is taking off. It seems like more and more people I know are making hdtv purchases for their next tv purchase. They like the wide screen aspect for movies, and love the sports they have seen at my place. Hd isn't dieing, and it needs a major distribution medium. Broadband in the us isn't there yet to handle ondemand hdtv. I want to be able to watch a certain movie at a certain time, in hd. High def dvd can do this for me in short order.
Sorry for any misspellings or other oddities. I am typing this up on my sidekick (I love technology)
Comments
Originally posted by Elixir
its funny that you claim im trolling while everything coming out of your mouth holds as much weight as it does coming out of mine.
If you meant we have displayed the same amount of credentials, then you'd be right. I have some, but there's no point to ad hominem arguments. On the content, you are demonstrably wrong on several points.
everything you have said is a matter of opinion, besides the ps2 losing money.
Wrong. I put out a number of hard facts. Examples follow:
- Katamari Damacy is a casual game as opposed to a hardcore game like you claimed. So are, in fact, the dance games for which you made the same claim.
Proof: google for "casual game definition" and see what comes up. Or pick up a book on the subject of game design.
- Dead or Alive is lacking in deep gameplay in comparison to top fighting games, as evidenced by the experiences of hardcore players, the game's non-presence in tournaments, and lack of strong communities.
Proof: browse tournament listings at shoryuken.com and see how many major tournaments it has been played at.
- Dead or Alive is not comparable to Tekken as a brand.
Proof: Hit Google. Tekken has sold over 20 million copies. I couldn't find an exact number for DoA, but it's roughly 2 million for DoA2, 1 million for DoA3. I would put an estimate at <4 million.
even though you commit fallacy after fallacy you like to point out mine
That's nice. What specific fallacies would you be talking about, mr. "DoA Beach Volleyball equals Tekken"?
not to mention you really gotta be a lame ass to pick out capitalization and spelling errors
don't be that guy.
I didn't "pick out" any errors, which would be pointless in any case since your posts are riddled with them. Being written poorly makes the posts harder to read, but the main thing is, if you don't bother to write normal English, it appears you don't give a damn about the discussion or respect your fellow forumites. If this was actual inability to spell or write, that would be different, but your output is not that of a dyslexic. If there was some content that was accurate, insightful, or interesting, I would not care about the form it's delivered in. But there isn't.
Originally posted by Cake
Intel now willing to support both formats?
Here's what the article DOESN'T say.
(from a post I made to AppleInsider in a HD DVD Blu-Ray discussion.)
It seems at this time that BR is on top. All the major studios except Universal have committed to it. Three exclusively and two will do both. Three have committed to HD, one exclusively and the same two will do both. Most computer companies committed to BR. There are at least four manufacturing companies demoing drives vs one for Hd.
BR will come out with drives by spring that both record 25GB R/RE, and 50GB R/RE. They might do double sided, but haven't said. They playback 25 and 50GB single side, and 100GB two sided. They can get a full Hi-def movie plus specials plus a standard DVD movie on one side with a label on the other.
HD will come out with drives end of first quarter or sometime second quarter. It will play 15 and 30GB on one side. Maybe there will be two sided 60GB disks at release, maybe not. It will play a hi-def movie with extras on one side, but the standard DVD must be on the second side. No label. Recorders won't be out at first. They will come "later". When they do come out they will record a 20GB RE, and if they are ready a 15GB R. Eventually they may record 30GB R's but they say it might take years. They also haven't said anything about two sided recordable disks.
HD will have "mandatory" managed copy. What we know about it so far is that it will require an internet connection to be able to do it. The consensus is that they will charge. How much? They don't say. Probably case by case.
BR also has managed copy, but haven't said whether it will be "mandatory" The guess is that it will be up to the studios.
There are other features that BR has as well that HD doesn't. One of the reasons the HD Assoc gave for the delay to next year was that they were adding "features" - the same ones that BR has already.
The 360 will have a DVD, no HD DVD. The PS3 will have Blu-Ray. Paramount and other studios have said that one of the reasons they chose BR was because of that.
Intel has no influence over this process, and it's new attempts to mediate has been called "tainted".
MS has a lot to lose if BR becomes standard as they chose to use the industry developed BD-Java as opposed to MS's iHD, which they call "developmental", i.e. - unfinished and buggy, and that it also "didn't go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network."
This is in the Panasonic press release as well as the one from HP and Paramount, and also from the two association sites.
EDIT: I just wanted to add that none of what I said is my own opinion. All of it is public.
a lot of it is still subjective. what game has deeper gameplay? what "hardcore" gamers say, this and that is not based on a fact, sorry.
we'll see what happens with this and then we can discuss more later. as of now i'm done with it.
Originally posted by Elixir
ok, well again what you guys are trying to say is still a matter of opinion regardless if you type "google".
a lot of it is still subjective. what game has deeper gameplay? what "hardcore" gamers say, this and that is not based on a fact, sorry.
we'll see what happens with this and then we can discuss more later. as of now i'm done with it.
I was going to suggest the same thing. We're not getting anywhere.
Originally posted by sunilraman
good. now kiss and make up. and send pics. you're both chicks, right? oh wait, i'm on the wrong forum here... wtf?
I could comment on that, but I won't.
This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.
For us it's not the physical format. Understand that this is the last physical format there will ever be. Everything's going to be streamed directly or on a hard disk. So, in this way, it's even unclear how much this one counts.
These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.
Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"
How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?
The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).
e#s:
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.
Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Originally posted by groverat
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...
Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).
It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.
you've always been a sensible guy but today you kicked it up a notch. %100 spot on.
Frankly both formats are pissing me off. The content providers are pissing me off. The hardware companies are pissing me off.
I'm seeing greed and the avarical desire supercede any notion of what the consumer might actually want. You know it's pretty freakin' bad with the King of DRM Microsoft has to tell the BDA to back off. Think about that...a company that has DRM up to the monitor has to tell Sony to back off with the DRM...that's a riot.
A dark horse is out there. It could be IPTV or some other movie delivery system but I sense a change coming. I sense the established hegemony being blindsided by the independents.
The only thing we need is very fast broadband (24-50Mbps) and enough brains to turn the damn TV off and find some thoughtful enterainment.
These content companies don't realize the buzzsaw their running into. Already I can by a Roku Labs Soundbridge radio and bypass AM/FM altogher.
When the lines blur between broadcast tv/radio and internetcast you will see a shift in the balance of power. Like osmosis, consumers will flow to the format that gives them the most choice and flexibility.
If they price BR and HD DVD movies at $30 expect a large Meh! from consumers as they stick with DVD and upconverting DVD players.
Severely disappointed in Seattle. HM
i love comments like "if sony can flood the world with ps3"
the system doesn't even have a release date and people are talking about world domination?
people are going to be bitting their tongues in the end
Originally posted by e1618978
More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...
Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).
It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.
Crazy name, crazy dude!
Its probably already too late for either format.
Originally posted by groverat
This is all sound and fury. These formats are both bullshit. We're going to move from DVD to web distribution. DVD will remain adequate for a long time for the luddites and poor people.
This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.
These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.
Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"
How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?
The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).
e#s:
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.
Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.
Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Don't get so upset. This is just entertainment.
We aren't going to decide anyway. Besides, it will take two years until we see if it's going to be sucessful.
Originally posted by groverat
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?
Uh, well... me? Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.
...he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.
No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
Here we agree. I do want to see a slick way to present media from the computer (possibly acquired via network) to my entertainment system(s) while the computer is in use by somebody else, however. That still hasn't been done right, although not for lack of trying.
Originally posted by vinney57
Crazy name, crazy dude!
They said that about Einstein too...
With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.
I'll be buying a PS3 though.
Originally posted by Blackcat
In the UK its only recent that LCD TVs have caught on, with 22" sets going for £500ish. Now HD LCD is being hyped but the specs are no different, except 22" is more like £1000 for the same resolution.
With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.
I'll be buying a PS3 though.
There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.
So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.
Originally posted by melgross
There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.
So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.
Oh the specs are there, but the damn silly HDCP connector isn't. My LCD could happily show 720 but there is no way to get the signal in.
It's this that will put people off, most LCDs here have SCART and VGA inputs which means no HDTV.
The PS3 is a game machine. That's what it is. Kuturagi is coming out with marketing tripe because this thing is going to be stupid expensive and he needs to pump up the hype as much as possible to justify it.
Also, for the vast majority of people the idea of spending more than $500 on a television is insanity. People out there have underpaying jobs and kids and plenty of other fixed costs. The idea that a $500 video game machine with its multi-thousand dollar tagalongs is going to take over?
Right now HDTV is ~10% market share. Industry hopefuls see 50+% by 2008, three years from now.
Big, ugly burn-out prone DLP boxes are going to turn wives off. They already hate CRTs enough, they don't need something even bigger making their living rooms look terrible. And I do not blame them. Projection is dying (sales are falling, plasma is rising).
It's all flat-screen from here on out. Once we see quality 30"-40" LCD/Plasma/SED(wetdream) HDTVs in the sub-$1k range we'll start thinking about how truly necessary HD movie media is. And if we're not already getting a ton of HD content over the Internet by 2008 I'm going to kill Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both with my bare hands.
Programmer:
Uh, well... me?
Fantastic. Welcome to the niche.
Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.
It has to be a landslide to get market penetration. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD are going to offer absolutely no picture quality advantage on an SDTV or EDTV. And the vast majority of all televisions already installed are SD or ED. The vast majority of televisions selling right now are SD or ED.
DVD was so great because it offered to max out the quality your SD television could put out and it still impresses people because they still mostly watch cable/sat television which is lesser quality than DVD.
If you've got an SDTV or EDTV (which 90%+ of people do), Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is just pouring money and picture quality down the drain. They are not going to do it because there is no advantage to them.
The cost of entry isn't just the price of the media and players, it's the price of the television(s). This cannot be ignored.
No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.
But if you don't even have an HDTV what is the point?
And if you're cutting edge enough to have an HDTV, why waste time with stupid optical discs when you can just get everything over the Internet?
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could get big if the studios simply stonewall all attempts to get movies (HD or otherwise) online. That's really the only way.
If either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD make it, you should probably be so pissed off at the greedy bastard studios that you just pirate everything anyway. It will be a sign that something is bad wrong.
These things are stop-gaps, band-aids. Little paper bridges between the present and future.
And with that in mind, I think the real-world costs of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD should come to mind.
If it's a bridge you're just going to end up tearing down, why not make it as utilitarian and cheap as possible?
I am currently a senior in college, not making uber amounts of money, and am completly supporting myself. I would love to buy a first gen high def dvd player, and will probably save money for one. I want hd content, and as much as I can get of it.
I have no problem repurchashing some of my dvds (such as lotr, star wars, matrix, etc). I am not going to repurchase everything. And all my future purchases (once available) of new releases will be high def disks.
I think it is naieve to say that next gen dvd format will fail completly. There is such a drastic difference quality wise between sd and hd. Yes, I know you need a hdtv to see this, but hd is taking off. It seems like more and more people I know are making hdtv purchases for their next tv purchase. They like the wide screen aspect for movies, and love the sports they have seen at my place. Hd isn't dieing, and it needs a major distribution medium. Broadband in the us isn't there yet to handle ondemand hdtv. I want to be able to watch a certain movie at a certain time, in hd. High def dvd can do this for me in short order.
Sorry for any misspellings or other oddities. I am typing this up on my sidekick (I love technology)