If Warner does capitulate then the battle is indeed over as Warner stands to gain significant royalties from HD-DVD just as they did with DVD.
I think this would signify that the content providers are unanimous in their desire to protect their assets. They don't give a rip about the exta space of Blu-Ray they are more in to the extra DRM (BD+).
yeah warner will tumble soon and go bluray. whats the use of royalties from HD-DVD if you're the only one using it? getting royalties from yourself is kinda pointless
Interesting topic in which no one really has a definitive answer. It's kind of like reading tea leaves.
From my semi-Ludite gut level feeling, as things stand now BlueRay will be the winner, but over the next five years will be a niche product like laserdiscs were. The basic problem is that there isn't yet a critical mass of HD TVs in-home. Thus regular DVD will remain the standard. But who knows.
Interesting topic in which no one really has a definitive answer. It's kind of like reading tea leaves.
From my semi-Ludite gut level feeling, as things stand now BlueRay will be the winner, but over the next five years will be a niche product like laserdiscs were. The basic problem is that there isn't yet a critical mass of HD TVs in-home. Thus regular DVD will remain the standard. But who knows.
Possible. But with them being able to both record and play both DVD's and CD's, they will get into most homes as the price goes down.
BusinessWeek has an interesting article about why HD-DVD will fail. It's quite interesting, especially the part about how Bill Gates wanted a format he could have complete control over. The fact that Microsoft is backing it should immediately raise red flags, especially for Mac OS users.
Quote:
Dell and Hewlett-Packard took the highly unusual step of issuing a joint statement denouncing the move by Microsoft and Intel, the PC makers' two most important suppliers. "Desperation" is the way Brian Zucker, a technology strategist at Dell, characterized Microsoft's move.
Paramount Pictures announced it would end exclusive support of HD DVD and support both standards. Warner Bros. is expected to follow suit in the next few days, sources say. That will give Sony six of the seven major studios
A major factor swaying these companies is Blu-ray's massive capacity. Its disks will hold at least 50 gigabytes and perhaps 100 gigs or more. HD DVD will start at 15 gigs, and top out at 45. "We want a standard that's going to be around for 10 or 15 years," says one studio exec.
Despite Time Warner's long alliance with Toshiba, CEO Richard Parsons asked Jeff Bewkes, chairman of the company's entertainment unit, to reconsider the best way to recharge DVD sales. Bewkes decided that the studio should forget appearances and back Blu-ray if it was the format most likely to win consumers' hearts. "Blu-ray's potential for more capacity started looking better and better," said one Hollywood executive.
The public attack may have backfired. One day after Microsoft talked up the importance of Toshiba's ability to hit the market first with its standard, Toshiba announced it would delay rolling out its own HD DVD players until after the holidays. Sony's Blu-ray-equipped PlayStations are scheduled to go on sale early next year, too.
There are actually quite a few PS3 movie clips online. You can find many on
gametrailers.com or on IGN.com.
The videoclip of the next Metal Gear Solid game is friggin' incredible looking
and running in realtime. Other videoclips that show the potential of the PS3:
The Getaway
Warhawk (scary realistic water)
EA's Fight Night Boxing game (face rippling looks amazing ala matrix 3.)
Gran Tourismo
Killzone
There were a lot of Xbox 360 games that just didn't look that impressive,
(perfect dark, kameo, saint's row, etc.) They looked like really nice xbox
games. They didn't scream "Next Gen" like the clips that I mentioned above.
and you are exactly the kind of person Sony targets with those "what the games could look like" stragedy.
if you ever followed sony and their console releases they have always done this. they show these clips which (i dont care what they say) are not in game footage. they have done this many times. they used crazy images to show off PS2 capabilities which still haven't been relized lol.
you think a console that hasn't even released beta versions are going to create games that look like that Killzone trailer? you really believe this? you reallly believe that microsoft would grossly under develop their system? come on. not to mention that everyone and i mean everyone is saying the CEll is extremely difficult to develp for at this point.
so the difference here is Sony is trying to hype "what they hope" could be and microsoft is showing you what they have, what is going to come out early in the systems life cycle.
it takes developers time to crack the possibilities of these consoles. people hoping for breakthroughs early on this gen will be dissapointed.
The extra space of Blu-Ray means nothing. Both formats hold 6+ hrs of video.
I think the real answer is copy protection but that's not what the studios want to highlight. It's obvious they don't want a repeat of the DVD Burning fiasco.
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
If Blu-Ray wins I won't mind but I don't think the best "consumer" format won. I think the best "content provider" format won.
The extra space of Blu-Ray means nothing. Both formats hold 6+ hrs of video.
I think the real answer is copy protection but that's not what the studios want to highlight. It's obvious they don't want a repeat of the DVD Burning fiasco.
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
If Blu-Ray wins I won't mind but I don't think the best "consumer" format won. I think the best "content provider" format won.
I'm concerned more about the space because I have no interest in copying these disks, and won't be serving the contents over my network. It's a lot easier to just put the disk in the machine you want to watch from than to tie up valuable network bandwidth, even though I use Gigabit Ethernet. We have three people on the computers at the same time often enough. For backups 50 or 100 GB's is much better than 30 or 60GB's.
What do you want to do? Keep the disk in some carousel and have it stream to one machine? Why bother? Streaming to more than one machine requires much more complex equipment. I'd rather just put it into a player for my large screen TV if we're going to watch it together as opposed to watching it at the same time on different machines alone.
and you are exactly the kind of person Sony targets with those "what the games could look like" stragedy.
if you ever followed sony and their console releases they have always done this. they show these clips which (i dont care what they say) are not in game footage. they have done this many times. they used crazy images to show off PS2 capabilities which still haven't been relized lol.
you think a console that hasn't even released beta versions are going to create games that look like that Killzone trailer? you really believe this? you reallly believe that microsoft would grossly under develop their system? come on. not to mention that everyone and i mean everyone is saying the CEll is extremely difficult to develp for at this point.
so the difference here is Sony is trying to hype "what they hope" could be and microsoft is showing you what they have, what is going to come out early in the systems life cycle.
it takes developers time to crack the possibilities of these consoles. people hoping for breakthroughs early on this gen will be dissapointed.
The video I saw of Metal Gear Solid was a demonstration at TGS being
manipulated in realtime by the creator of the game. Also, there are videos
of fight night & the getaway being manipulated in realtime in front of an
audience. I heard that the Killzone video was actually running at 5 fps on
alpha hardware & edited to run at 60fps so I'll give you that one.
you know what all i have to do is walk the campus of a local univ and see how many people lug around dvds or cd's for that matter....
how many do you think? virtually no one to be honest.
its a small market to base an entire technology revolution on but to be honest why all the fuss?
i see kids transfering music, files, pictures, etc through ipods.
i see teachers presenting powerpoint slides through USB adapters
so honestly i dont see that many disks passing around.
so file sharing through dvd's is already out in my mind.
to me it leaves movies and games.
xbox 360 has this new live, they are banking heavily on downloadable content. nintendo is saying they will have a huge library of old games to be downloaded into the revolution... ps3 says they are going to introduce an online system but we have yet to see anytyhing
so this leaves movies. VHS is just now being completely wiped out. how quickly will people jump to blu-ray if its expensive as most are saying it is?
The video I saw of Metal Gear Solid was a demonstration at TGS being
manipulated in realtime by the creator of the game. Also, there are videos
of fight night & the getaway being manipulated in realtime in front of an
audience. I heard that the Killzone video was actually running at 5 fps on
alpha hardware & edited to run at 60fps so I'll give you that one.
yes yes playstation has done the whole realtime manipulation thing before. you dont remember ps2's presentation of real time manipulation ?
even so lets say Metal Gear solid looks taht good when it comes out. are you forgetting thats cinematics? those images aren't even gameplay. its a ploy they use and man do people still fall for it.
kids go crazy seeing cinematics of Madden, even with the 360. But thats not even gameplay? it makes no difference really...
the ps2 won because of the dvd player they had. the first year or so of the ps2's life had virtually no killer games. people who bought dreamcast had awesome games to play right out of the box.
i think playstation is banking on another add on to win this generation again. however unlike sega, microsoft ins't trying to bounce back, they have the money incase of an emergency.
yes yes playstation has done the whole realtime manipulation thing before. you dont remember ps2's presentation of real time manipulation ?
even so lets say Metal Gear solid looks taht good when it comes out. are you forgetting thats cinematics? those images aren't even gameplay. its a ploy they use and man do people still fall for it.
kids go crazy seeing cinematics of Madden, even with the 360. But thats not even gameplay? it makes no difference really...
the ps2 won because of the dvd player they had. the first year or so of the ps2's life had virtually no killer games. people who bought dreamcast had awesome games to play right out of the box.
i think playstation is banking on another add on to win this generation again. however unlike sega, microsoft ins't trying to bounce back, they have the money incase of an emergency.
At the same time MS did that with the 360. They also had crappy demo's running off Mac G5's.
Don't forget that the 360 is now ready to go, just 5 weeks left. They had better be showing *real* games. So far, those who have seen them haven't been too impressed. The article in the Times the other day said that the games looked pretty good but not vastly better, and that the gameplay seemed to be about the same. They also said MS's new game, I forgot the name off hand, also looks good but was no way neer the breakthrough that Halo was when the X Box first came out.
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
Yeah, and with Microsoft's involvement it will require Windows Vista. Thanks but no thanks.
Comments
Originally posted by hmurchison
If Warner does capitulate then the battle is indeed over as Warner stands to gain significant royalties from HD-DVD just as they did with DVD.
I think this would signify that the content providers are unanimous in their desire to protect their assets. They don't give a rip about the exta space of Blu-Ray they are more in to the extra DRM (BD+).
yeah warner will tumble soon and go bluray. whats the use of royalties from HD-DVD if you're the only one using it? getting royalties from yourself is kinda pointless
Sony and others seem to be really banking on the PS3 pushing blu-ray into the market.
i'm just confused....
no one has seen a single game coming out of the damn machine and are already saying it's going to stomp the Xbox360.
How the hell do you know this? you dont. Nintendo ruled the market for years and years and is now considered number 3.
sony had 2 consoles cycles dominated by the playstation. 2 only, so its fair to say you really dont know how well this thing will do.
my money is on microsoft this round.
just watch, wait and see.
oh and i side with HD-DVD
Originally posted by hmurchison
smart man
Wishful thinking.
From my semi-Ludite gut level feeling, as things stand now BlueRay will be the winner, but over the next five years will be a niche product like laserdiscs were. The basic problem is that there isn't yet a critical mass of HD TVs in-home. Thus regular DVD will remain the standard. But who knows.
Originally posted by OldCodger73
Interesting topic in which no one really has a definitive answer. It's kind of like reading tea leaves.
From my semi-Ludite gut level feeling, as things stand now BlueRay will be the winner, but over the next five years will be a niche product like laserdiscs were. The basic problem is that there isn't yet a critical mass of HD TVs in-home. Thus regular DVD will remain the standard. But who knows.
Possible. But with them being able to both record and play both DVD's and CD's, they will get into most homes as the price goes down.
Originally posted by Elixir
now i've been lurking around here for a while and i'm noticing a lot of faith and speculation put into the PS3.
Sony and others seem to be really banking on the PS3 pushing blu-ray into the market.
i'm just confused....
no one has seen a single game coming out of the damn machine and are already saying it's going to stomp the Xbox360.
How the hell do you know this? you dont. Nintendo ruled the market for years and years and is now considered number 3.
sony had 2 consoles cycles dominated by the playstation. 2 only, so its fair to say you really dont know how well this thing will do.
my money is on microsoft this round.
just watch, wait and see.
oh and i side with HD-DVD
There are actually quite a few PS3 movie clips online. You can find many on
gametrailers.com or on IGN.com.
The videoclip of the next Metal Gear Solid game is friggin' incredible looking
and running in realtime. Other videoclips that show the potential of the PS3:
The Getaway
Warhawk (scary realistic water)
EA's Fight Night Boxing game (face rippling looks amazing ala matrix 3.)
Gran Tourismo
Killzone
There were a lot of Xbox 360 games that just didn't look that impressive,
(perfect dark, kameo, saint's row, etc.) They looked like really nice xbox
games. They didn't scream "Next Gen" like the clips that I mentioned above.
Dell and Hewlett-Packard took the highly unusual step of issuing a joint statement denouncing the move by Microsoft and Intel, the PC makers' two most important suppliers. "Desperation" is the way Brian Zucker, a technology strategist at Dell, characterized Microsoft's move.
Paramount Pictures announced it would end exclusive support of HD DVD and support both standards. Warner Bros. is expected to follow suit in the next few days, sources say. That will give Sony six of the seven major studios
A major factor swaying these companies is Blu-ray's massive capacity. Its disks will hold at least 50 gigabytes and perhaps 100 gigs or more. HD DVD will start at 15 gigs, and top out at 45. "We want a standard that's going to be around for 10 or 15 years," says one studio exec.
Despite Time Warner's long alliance with Toshiba, CEO Richard Parsons asked Jeff Bewkes, chairman of the company's entertainment unit, to reconsider the best way to recharge DVD sales. Bewkes decided that the studio should forget appearances and back Blu-ray if it was the format most likely to win consumers' hearts. "Blu-ray's potential for more capacity started looking better and better," said one Hollywood executive.
The public attack may have backfired. One day after Microsoft talked up the importance of Toshiba's ability to hit the market first with its standard, Toshiba announced it would delay rolling out its own HD DVD players until after the holidays. Sony's Blu-ray-equipped PlayStations are scheduled to go on sale early next year, too.
You can read the rest of the article here:
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...9074_tc024.htm
Originally posted by mello
There are actually quite a few PS3 movie clips online. You can find many on
gametrailers.com or on IGN.com.
The videoclip of the next Metal Gear Solid game is friggin' incredible looking
and running in realtime. Other videoclips that show the potential of the PS3:
The Getaway
Warhawk (scary realistic water)
EA's Fight Night Boxing game (face rippling looks amazing ala matrix 3.)
Gran Tourismo
Killzone
There were a lot of Xbox 360 games that just didn't look that impressive,
(perfect dark, kameo, saint's row, etc.) They looked like really nice xbox
games. They didn't scream "Next Gen" like the clips that I mentioned above.
and you are exactly the kind of person Sony targets with those "what the games could look like" stragedy.
if you ever followed sony and their console releases they have always done this. they show these clips which (i dont care what they say) are not in game footage. they have done this many times. they used crazy images to show off PS2 capabilities which still haven't been relized lol.
you think a console that hasn't even released beta versions are going to create games that look like that Killzone trailer? you really believe this? you reallly believe that microsoft would grossly under develop their system? come on. not to mention that everyone and i mean everyone is saying the CEll is extremely difficult to develp for at this point.
so the difference here is Sony is trying to hype "what they hope" could be and microsoft is showing you what they have, what is going to come out early in the systems life cycle.
it takes developers time to crack the possibilities of these consoles. people hoping for breakthroughs early on this gen will be dissapointed.
The extra space of Blu-Ray means nothing. Both formats hold 6+ hrs of video.
I think the real answer is copy protection but that's not what the studios want to highlight. It's obvious they don't want a repeat of the DVD Burning fiasco.
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
If Blu-Ray wins I won't mind but I don't think the best "consumer" format won. I think the best "content provider" format won.
if you think about it not many movies have all that many special features to fill that much space.
the capacity of HD-DVD is more than enough.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I prefer not to listen to marketing puffery.
The extra space of Blu-Ray means nothing. Both formats hold 6+ hrs of video.
I think the real answer is copy protection but that's not what the studios want to highlight. It's obvious they don't want a repeat of the DVD Burning fiasco.
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
If Blu-Ray wins I won't mind but I don't think the best "consumer" format won. I think the best "content provider" format won.
I'm concerned more about the space because I have no interest in copying these disks, and won't be serving the contents over my network. It's a lot easier to just put the disk in the machine you want to watch from than to tie up valuable network bandwidth, even though I use Gigabit Ethernet. We have three people on the computers at the same time often enough. For backups 50 or 100 GB's is much better than 30 or 60GB's.
What do you want to do? Keep the disk in some carousel and have it stream to one machine? Why bother? Streaming to more than one machine requires much more complex equipment. I'd rather just put it into a player for my large screen TV if we're going to watch it together as opposed to watching it at the same time on different machines alone.
Originally posted by Elixir
as far as movies go how much space do they really need?
if you think about it not many movies have all that many special features to fill that much space.
the capacity of HD-DVD is more than enough.
You're right. Unless they decide to do other things with the space there shouldn't be a difference. But five years from now, there might.
Originally posted by Elixir
and you are exactly the kind of person Sony targets with those "what the games could look like" stragedy.
if you ever followed sony and their console releases they have always done this. they show these clips which (i dont care what they say) are not in game footage. they have done this many times. they used crazy images to show off PS2 capabilities which still haven't been relized lol.
you think a console that hasn't even released beta versions are going to create games that look like that Killzone trailer? you really believe this? you reallly believe that microsoft would grossly under develop their system? come on. not to mention that everyone and i mean everyone is saying the CEll is extremely difficult to develp for at this point.
so the difference here is Sony is trying to hype "what they hope" could be and microsoft is showing you what they have, what is going to come out early in the systems life cycle.
it takes developers time to crack the possibilities of these consoles. people hoping for breakthroughs early on this gen will be dissapointed.
The video I saw of Metal Gear Solid was a demonstration at TGS being
manipulated in realtime by the creator of the game. Also, there are videos
of fight night & the getaway being manipulated in realtime in front of an
audience. I heard that the Killzone video was actually running at 5 fps on
alpha hardware & edited to run at 60fps so I'll give you that one.
how many do you think? virtually no one to be honest.
its a small market to base an entire technology revolution on but to be honest why all the fuss?
i see kids transfering music, files, pictures, etc through ipods.
i see teachers presenting powerpoint slides through USB adapters
so honestly i dont see that many disks passing around.
so file sharing through dvd's is already out in my mind.
to me it leaves movies and games.
xbox 360 has this new live, they are banking heavily on downloadable content. nintendo is saying they will have a huge library of old games to be downloaded into the revolution... ps3 says they are going to introduce an online system but we have yet to see anytyhing
so this leaves movies. VHS is just now being completely wiped out. how quickly will people jump to blu-ray if its expensive as most are saying it is?
Originally posted by mello
The video I saw of Metal Gear Solid was a demonstration at TGS being
manipulated in realtime by the creator of the game. Also, there are videos
of fight night & the getaway being manipulated in realtime in front of an
audience. I heard that the Killzone video was actually running at 5 fps on
alpha hardware & edited to run at 60fps so I'll give you that one.
yes yes playstation has done the whole realtime manipulation thing before. you dont remember ps2's presentation of real time manipulation ?
even so lets say Metal Gear solid looks taht good when it comes out. are you forgetting thats cinematics? those images aren't even gameplay. its a ploy they use and man do people still fall for it.
kids go crazy seeing cinematics of Madden, even with the 360. But thats not even gameplay? it makes no difference really...
the ps2 won because of the dvd player they had. the first year or so of the ps2's life had virtually no killer games. people who bought dreamcast had awesome games to play right out of the box.
i think playstation is banking on another add on to win this generation again. however unlike sega, microsoft ins't trying to bounce back, they have the money incase of an emergency.
Originally posted by Elixir
yes yes playstation has done the whole realtime manipulation thing before. you dont remember ps2's presentation of real time manipulation ?
even so lets say Metal Gear solid looks taht good when it comes out. are you forgetting thats cinematics? those images aren't even gameplay. its a ploy they use and man do people still fall for it.
kids go crazy seeing cinematics of Madden, even with the 360. But thats not even gameplay? it makes no difference really...
the ps2 won because of the dvd player they had. the first year or so of the ps2's life had virtually no killer games. people who bought dreamcast had awesome games to play right out of the box.
i think playstation is banking on another add on to win this generation again. however unlike sega, microsoft ins't trying to bounce back, they have the money incase of an emergency.
At the same time MS did that with the 360. They also had crappy demo's running off Mac G5's.
Don't forget that the 360 is now ready to go, just 5 weeks left. They had better be showing *real* games. So far, those who have seen them haven't been too impressed. The article in the Times the other day said that the games looked pretty good but not vastly better, and that the gameplay seemed to be about the same. They also said MS's new game, I forgot the name off hand, also looks good but was no way neer the breakthrough that Halo was when the X Box first came out.
Sony has a fair bit of time to go yet.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2005/...ap2265797.html
Originally posted by hmurchison
Microsoft realizes that Managed Copy (which is a stipulation of the AACS copyprotection) means HTPC and Media Center PCs have more flexibility for streaming.
Yeah, and with Microsoft's involvement it will require Windows Vista. Thanks but no thanks.