How long does a person want to wait to get their movie via download? A half hour show is along day with DSL. People want it in the drop of a hat like now.
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years. After that happens consumers are going to start to seriously notice the difference in video quality. I have a projection TV. I can see a huge difference between regular tv, and DVD. DVD, and Superbit DVD. Superbit DVD, and High Def TV. Download quality is less than regular TV.
Hey... Apple can do what they want. It's about time they made another pippin mistake. They are due for one.
Fairplay is a DRM wrapper. It'll work on any file format.
That's pretty interesting. Then I suppose the problem is getting the movie studios to approve it. I remember reading some sticking point about the issue.
How long does a person want to wait to get their movie via download? A half hour show is along day with DSL. People want it in the drop of a hat like now.
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years. After that happens consumers are going to start to seriously notice the difference in video quality. I have a projection TV. I can see a huge difference between regular tv, and DVD. DVD, and Superbit DVD. Superbit DVD, and High Def TV. Download quality is less than regular TV.
Hey... Apple can do what they want. It's about time they made another pippin mistake. They are due for one.
My cable modem is 4Mb/s so I can easily download a SD H.264 file in real-time. Even 1.5Mb DLS should be able to do the same. So you can start watching immediately, though it'll take as long as the clip to finish. Theoretically I should be able to do the same with a HD file, but my guess is that realistically 2x the file length.
Download quality is the same as regular TV. I don't see where you think it won't be. BT download are usually worse than regular TV in my experience, but then they aren't H.264.
I agree that HD will be the future, and perhaps Apple will offer that for TV programming. I think that for short programs (1 hr or less) it'll be acceptable for consumers, but a 2 hr movie might be irritating for consumers.
For what it's worth, a DVD rip in H.264 would be about the same size as some game demos that I've downloaded. It's hardly unprecedented.
How long does a person want to wait to get their movie via download? A half hour show is along day with DSL. People want it in the drop of a hat like now.
Hmm, lets see.
A 30 min TV show would be about 150MBs (standard def, compressed with H.264). On a standard DSL line (1.5Mbps), thats about 15 minutes. On a standard Cable line, that is only 8 minutes.
If it took you all day, you must be on dial up...
Quote:
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years.
Not quite right. FCC said all tv must be digital broadcast (so no more analog broadcasts). A digital broadcast can be either SD or HD. There is no FCC mandate requiring all stations to be in HDTV. And this has already been pushed back. First it was by 2006, now it is either 2007 or 2008. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed back again when the date draws near.
That's pretty interesting. Then I suppose the problem is getting the movie studios to approve it. I remember reading some sticking point about the issue.
The studios have made two attempts at the movie downloading service and neither has taken off. I think they're willing to go with something that is proven and works. They sure aren't making money with consortiums. Fairplay is a proven technology now. There's been no real success at bypassing it that the studios would find objectionable.
And Steve as part of Pixar is almost certainly part of these groups. Perhaps Apple is getting ready to move Fairplay to other devices. They have licensed it to Motorola already, so they aren't totally opposed to licensing, though they are being very cautious with it.
There was talk of licensing to Macrovision, but I don't know if that's gone through or not. If it has, then the studios will probably be on board.
Download quality is the same as regular TV. I don't see where you think it won't be. BT download are usually worse than regular TV in my experience, but then they aren't H.264.
The TV shows I download off BT are usually HDTV rips, compressed down to a resolution of 624x352 using Xvid (so about 350MBs for a 1 hour show). The quality is great, usually better than SD tv (cause SD tv is kind of fuzzy.) I have burned a few shows to DVD before for other people, and it looks just as good as the SD tv channel if not a little bit better.
The TV shows I download off BT are usually HDTV rips, compressed down to a resolution of 624x352 using Xvid (so about 350MBs for a 1 hour show). The quality is great, usually better than SD tv (cause SD tv is kind of fuzzy.) I have burned a few shows to DVD before for other people, and it looks just as good as the SD tv channel if not a little bit better.
Yeah, depends on what you download. I'm usually filling in Daily Shows and whatnot, so I rarely get the HDTV rips, and the SD rips are so-so. But that's not really a big cinematic program, you know?
I think a half-hour show SD H.264 rip would be closer to 100MB (23 minutes @ 600kbs)
Any ideas what a high-quality HDTV rip straight to H.264 with no shrinking would weigh in at? Maybe I'll dig around and run one. I know that DVD rips are about 600MB-700MB. I would guess that a 1hr 720p rip full-res would be in the same neighborhood. I'd say that's at the upper-end of what people would be willing to download.
Well no matter whether I personally feel it is something useful or not I have a hard time seeing this announcement as anything other than a video capable iPod. Maybe it's such a special announcement becuase they'll be using the xscale processor, Apple's first intel available product. Anyway I'd love to be wrong, I've got my fingers crossed for PB updates.
File size notwithstanding, I think a TV download service would work best on a podcast-like subscription model. When a new episode of one of your programs becomes available, iTunes downloads it in the background and sends it to your iPod AV the next time you sync. Then the issue of waiting for the download becomes essentially irrelevant.
Question is, white kind of usage rights would the DRM allow?
File size notwithstanding, I think a TV download service would work best on a podcast-like subscription model. When a new episode of one of your programs becomes available, iTunes downloads it in the background and sends it to your iPod AV the next time you sync. Then the issue of waiting for the download becomes essentially irrelevant.
That's a great idea. I could see people buying a subscription to a show which is downloaded automatically in the background. This was part of the initial intent of podcasting - that you'd subscribe to an RSS feed with audio or video payload which would be delivered in the background, ready when you wanted to use it. It would require some expansion of the store, but it largely reuses existing bits.
Quote:
Question is, white kind of usage rights would the DRM allow?
Probably about the same as for music. I'd expect 3 computers + vPod. It'd be cool to see burn to DVD though iDVD with some restriction to prevent it from being automated. I think Apple has enough evidence to show that iTMS content has not been abused thus far, and that video should be quite safe.
That's a great idea. I could see people buying a subscription to a show which is downloaded automatically in the background. This was part of the initial intent of podcasting - that you'd subscribe to an RSS feed with audio or video payload which would be delivered in the background, ready when you wanted to use it. It would require some expansion of the store, but it largely reuses existing bits.
Probably about the same as for music. I'd expect 3 computers + vPod. It'd be cool to see burn to DVD though iDVD with some restriction to prevent it from being automated. I think Apple has enough evidence to show that iTMS content has not been abused thus far, and that video should be quite safe.
Not that I want to bitch about the Antipodes being technologically backward, but surely an Apple movie store is only a business model that you could perhaps run where there is enough bandwidth (ie. large cable networks, not ADSL). If thats the case, then you are only going to be selling to a limited number of people, unless you start using Apple retail outlets as download zones...or some other daft idea. The number of people you will be selling to is fairly limited and will be for the next 5 years. Is that a business that Apple wants to blow money at?
Am I missing something here? Do I need some coffee to get my mind in order? I am very sceptical of this whole portable video thing (if you haven't guessed already)
It's time to polish up those crystal balls folks...
Here's my what my tea-leaves are saying.
Legal movie download service.
Somebody at some point will offer a movie-for-download service which is endorsed by the studios. Apple are currently the best-placed company to do this.
Movie Store
Apple will announce a partnership with some studios to sell movies online (US only). Some TV content too. Steve will probably illustrate this by showing a new trailer of the Pixar feature "Cars". Pricing for features will be lower than DVD for standard def - and about the same as DVD for HD versions. Video rental also possible. Refund on deletion?
So how do we watch it?
Powerbook and Powermac updates will be announced which makes viewing HD content on Macs better. Better screens and hardware H264 decompression to be included in all new macs from today.
Price cuts on all Cinema displays.
What about TV?
A tiny set-top box device for storing and playing HD, SD and audio content to a TV & stereo. Box includes an iPod dock and an Airport wireless network feature. Guessing it might be called Airport / Airpod HD. Potential support for new wireless standard. Price $299
And iPods?
a new iPod with large capacity. Will be able to move&preview movie files.
It's time to polish up those crystal balls folks...
Here's my what my tea-leaves are saying.
Legal movie download service.
Somebody at some point will offer a movie-for-download service which is endorsed by the studios. Apple are currently the best-placed company to do this.
Movie Store
Apple will announce a partnership with some studios to sell movies online (US only). Some TV content too. Steve will probably illustrate this by showing a new trailer of the Pixar feature "Cars". Pricing for features will be lower than DVD for standard def - and about the same as DVD for HD versions. Video rental also possible. Refund on deletion?
So how do we watch it?
Powerbook and Powermac updates will be announced which makes viewing HD content on Macs better. Better screens and hardware H264 decompression to be included in all new macs from today.
Price cuts on all Cinema displays.
What about TV?
A tiny set-top box device for storing and playing HD, SD and audio content to a TV & stereo. Box includes an iPod dock and an Airport wireless network feature. Guessing it might be called Airport / Airpod HD. Potential support for new wireless standard. Price $299
And iPods?
a new iPod with large capacity. Will be able to move&preview movie files.
Carni
Carni, that's the way I think that we have to look at the prospect of a video iPod, by stepping back and ditching assumptions about the purpose and looking instead at strategy, of which SJ is the current guru.
Apple does stuff early and unexpectedly. A larger format screen offers access to more than just video but other content and purposes as well. What's more, the implications for video-on-demand in general would be huge, not just for production stuff but live video for example. Imagine a wired superbowl (or Lords for that matter), where you could be in the last tier seating and still have the best of personalized information and video - best of both worlds.
If Apple is doing it, then it is early but on the way to mass acceptance!
By the way, love the mixed metaphor, a pom can polish his crystal balls (sorry - ball) all he wants but he still has to consult tea leaves! Be careful what you look at though, the ashes will be OURS next time, they're only on loan to you guys!
I know this is sort of off topic but this morning, I was reading the Orange County Register's Business section and there was an article about Apple and the rumored video iPod or new macs. In the article, it mentioned the ThinkSecret.com web site which, to me, was rather surprising.
Comments
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years. After that happens consumers are going to start to seriously notice the difference in video quality. I have a projection TV. I can see a huge difference between regular tv, and DVD. DVD, and Superbit DVD. Superbit DVD, and High Def TV. Download quality is less than regular TV.
Hey... Apple can do what they want. It's about time they made another pippin mistake. They are due for one.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Fairplay is a DRM wrapper. It'll work on any file format.
That's pretty interesting. Then I suppose the problem is getting the movie studios to approve it. I remember reading some sticking point about the issue.
Here it is:
http://www.drmwatch.com/standards/article.php/3418741
Originally posted by onlooker
How long does a person want to wait to get their movie via download? A half hour show is along day with DSL. People want it in the drop of a hat like now.
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years. After that happens consumers are going to start to seriously notice the difference in video quality. I have a projection TV. I can see a huge difference between regular tv, and DVD. DVD, and Superbit DVD. Superbit DVD, and High Def TV. Download quality is less than regular TV.
Hey... Apple can do what they want. It's about time they made another pippin mistake. They are due for one.
My cable modem is 4Mb/s so I can easily download a SD H.264 file in real-time. Even 1.5Mb DLS should be able to do the same. So you can start watching immediately, though it'll take as long as the clip to finish. Theoretically I should be able to do the same with a HD file, but my guess is that realistically 2x the file length.
Download quality is the same as regular TV. I don't see where you think it won't be. BT download are usually worse than regular TV in my experience, but then they aren't H.264.
I agree that HD will be the future, and perhaps Apple will offer that for TV programming. I think that for short programs (1 hr or less) it'll be acceptable for consumers, but a 2 hr movie might be irritating for consumers.
For what it's worth, a DVD rip in H.264 would be about the same size as some game demos that I've downloaded. It's hardly unprecedented.
Originally posted by onlooker
How long does a person want to wait to get their movie via download? A half hour show is along day with DSL. People want it in the drop of a hat like now.
Hmm, lets see.
A 30 min TV show would be about 150MBs (standard def, compressed with H.264). On a standard DSL line (1.5Mbps), thats about 15 minutes. On a standard Cable line, that is only 8 minutes.
If it took you all day, you must be on dial up...
And what about quality. Federal Regulators have made it mandatory that all TV broadcasting is HD by (pretty soon/ within 2 years or so) I forget when, but. It's been going on for a few years.
Not quite right. FCC said all tv must be digital broadcast (so no more analog broadcasts). A digital broadcast can be either SD or HD. There is no FCC mandate requiring all stations to be in HDTV. And this has already been pushed back. First it was by 2006, now it is either 2007 or 2008. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed back again when the date draws near.
Originally posted by the cool gut
That's pretty interesting. Then I suppose the problem is getting the movie studios to approve it. I remember reading some sticking point about the issue.
Here it is:
http://www.drmwatch.com/standards/article.php/3418741
The studios have made two attempts at the movie downloading service and neither has taken off. I think they're willing to go with something that is proven and works. They sure aren't making money with consortiums. Fairplay is a proven technology now. There's been no real success at bypassing it that the studios would find objectionable.
And Steve as part of Pixar is almost certainly part of these groups. Perhaps Apple is getting ready to move Fairplay to other devices. They have licensed it to Motorola already, so they aren't totally opposed to licensing, though they are being very cautious with it.
There was talk of licensing to Macrovision, but I don't know if that's gone through or not. If it has, then the studios will probably be on board.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Download quality is the same as regular TV. I don't see where you think it won't be. BT download are usually worse than regular TV in my experience, but then they aren't H.264.
The TV shows I download off BT are usually HDTV rips, compressed down to a resolution of 624x352 using Xvid (so about 350MBs for a 1 hour show). The quality is great, usually better than SD tv (cause SD tv is kind of fuzzy.) I have burned a few shows to DVD before for other people, and it looks just as good as the SD tv channel if not a little bit better.
Originally posted by kupan787
The TV shows I download off BT are usually HDTV rips, compressed down to a resolution of 624x352 using Xvid (so about 350MBs for a 1 hour show). The quality is great, usually better than SD tv (cause SD tv is kind of fuzzy.) I have burned a few shows to DVD before for other people, and it looks just as good as the SD tv channel if not a little bit better.
Yeah, depends on what you download. I'm usually filling in Daily Shows and whatnot, so I rarely get the HDTV rips, and the SD rips are so-so. But that's not really a big cinematic program, you know?
I think a half-hour show SD H.264 rip would be closer to 100MB (23 minutes @ 600kbs)
Any ideas what a high-quality HDTV rip straight to H.264 with no shrinking would weigh in at? Maybe I'll dig around and run one. I know that DVD rips are about 600MB-700MB. I would guess that a 1hr 720p rip full-res would be in the same neighborhood. I'd say that's at the upper-end of what people would be willing to download.
Question is, white kind of usage rights would the DRM allow?
Originally posted by Reid
File size notwithstanding, I think a TV download service would work best on a podcast-like subscription model. When a new episode of one of your programs becomes available, iTunes downloads it in the background and sends it to your iPod AV the next time you sync. Then the issue of waiting for the download becomes essentially irrelevant.
That's a great idea. I could see people buying a subscription to a show which is downloaded automatically in the background. This was part of the initial intent of podcasting - that you'd subscribe to an RSS feed with audio or video payload which would be delivered in the background, ready when you wanted to use it. It would require some expansion of the store, but it largely reuses existing bits.
Question is, white kind of usage rights would the DRM allow?
Probably about the same as for music. I'd expect 3 computers + vPod. It'd be cool to see burn to DVD though iDVD with some restriction to prevent it from being automated. I think Apple has enough evidence to show that iTMS content has not been abused thus far, and that video should be quite safe.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
That's a great idea. I could see people buying a subscription to a show which is downloaded automatically in the background. This was part of the initial intent of podcasting - that you'd subscribe to an RSS feed with audio or video payload which would be delivered in the background, ready when you wanted to use it. It would require some expansion of the store, but it largely reuses existing bits.
Probably about the same as for music. I'd expect 3 computers + vPod. It'd be cool to see burn to DVD though iDVD with some restriction to prevent it from being automated. I think Apple has enough evidence to show that iTMS content has not been abused thus far, and that video should be quite safe.
Not that I want to bitch about the Antipodes being technologically backward, but surely an Apple movie store is only a business model that you could perhaps run where there is enough bandwidth (ie. large cable networks, not ADSL). If thats the case, then you are only going to be selling to a limited number of people, unless you start using Apple retail outlets as download zones...or some other daft idea. The number of people you will be selling to is fairly limited and will be for the next 5 years. Is that a business that Apple wants to blow money at?
Am I missing something here? Do I need some coffee to get my mind in order? I am very sceptical of this whole portable video thing (if you haven't guessed already
no cd/dvd drive included (use "server's" burner)
>>therefore smaller form factor
MacosXe installed in flash ROM
>>instant on
microdrive for local files...
"smallest Mac ever"
Here's my what my tea-leaves are saying.
Legal movie download service.
Somebody at some point will offer a movie-for-download service which is endorsed by the studios. Apple are currently the best-placed company to do this.
Movie Store
Apple will announce a partnership with some studios to sell movies online (US only). Some TV content too. Steve will probably illustrate this by showing a new trailer of the Pixar feature "Cars". Pricing for features will be lower than DVD for standard def - and about the same as DVD for HD versions. Video rental also possible. Refund on deletion?
So how do we watch it?
Powerbook and Powermac updates will be announced which makes viewing HD content on Macs better. Better screens and hardware H264 decompression to be included in all new macs from today.
Price cuts on all Cinema displays.
What about TV?
A tiny set-top box device for storing and playing HD, SD and audio content to a TV & stereo. Box includes an iPod dock and an Airport wireless network feature. Guessing it might be called Airport / Airpod HD. Potential support for new wireless standard. Price $299
And iPods?
a new iPod with large capacity. Will be able to move&preview movie files.
Carni
But all agree on PowerMac updates.
Originally posted by Carniphage
It's time to polish up those crystal balls folks...
Here's my what my tea-leaves are saying.
Legal movie download service.
Somebody at some point will offer a movie-for-download service which is endorsed by the studios. Apple are currently the best-placed company to do this.
Movie Store
Apple will announce a partnership with some studios to sell movies online (US only). Some TV content too. Steve will probably illustrate this by showing a new trailer of the Pixar feature "Cars". Pricing for features will be lower than DVD for standard def - and about the same as DVD for HD versions. Video rental also possible. Refund on deletion?
So how do we watch it?
Powerbook and Powermac updates will be announced which makes viewing HD content on Macs better. Better screens and hardware H264 decompression to be included in all new macs from today.
Price cuts on all Cinema displays.
What about TV?
A tiny set-top box device for storing and playing HD, SD and audio content to a TV & stereo. Box includes an iPod dock and an Airport wireless network feature. Guessing it might be called Airport / Airpod HD. Potential support for new wireless standard. Price $299
And iPods?
a new iPod with large capacity. Will be able to move&preview movie files.
Carni
Carni, that's the way I think that we have to look at the prospect of a video iPod, by stepping back and ditching assumptions about the purpose and looking instead at strategy, of which SJ is the current guru.
Apple does stuff early and unexpectedly. A larger format screen offers access to more than just video but other content and purposes as well. What's more, the implications for video-on-demand in general would be huge, not just for production stuff but live video for example. Imagine a wired superbowl (or Lords for that matter), where you could be in the last tier seating and still have the best of personalized information and video - best of both worlds.
If Apple is doing it, then it is early but on the way to mass acceptance!
By the way, love the mixed metaphor, a pom can polish his crystal balls (sorry - ball) all he wants but he still has to consult tea leaves! Be careful what you look at though, the ashes will be OURS next time, they're only on loan to you guys!
Originally posted by murk
BBC Leak?
Similar reports have been run on CNN and Fox. Makes you think there is going to be a video iPod no?
it must be something bigger than updated PowerMacs etc.
link