Totally agree! This is the first time I've seen anybody mention this. For the reasons you mentioned, and because of the new Front Row. It would only make sense to come out with a larger screen so that you could see better from across the room!
I am trying to be stronger and hold out. Really need to upgrade my old blue G4, but I want that 23"!
I've been scanning the forums for rumors of an iMac HD for months but all I find are people with Hard Disk problems! My main machine just died so I have to get a replacement - I just know the 23" will be announced the moment mine ships!!
I don't see it in the living room to be honest, even with front row. The extra space would be for editing and viewing in iMovie HD.
A 23" iMac sounds like a waste to me. It's one thing to have a bolted on 17" LCD but I'm not bolting on a computer that will quickly enough become old and crusty to a $1299 panel.
I don't see why you can't drive a plasma TV (with a DVI interface) from a Mini. They need to make a dongle so you can use the remote.
I would see more likely the release of an AirPort Express (with Video) and IR sensor than that of a man Mini with a IR sensor.
The Airport Express could relay the IR signal to a mac through Wifi. The difficulty could be to stream a video to the Airpot Express.
It's conceivable to imagine the streaming of pure MP4 video directly to the Airport Express and its decoding with the same hardware as for the iPod.
What seems more difficult is to relay the display of something like FrontRow to the TV. In order to do that, the Mac will need to take the screen buffer (say in 640x480) and encode it on the fly to stream it to the Airport Express. But it can be possible: it's already done in iChat with the Webcam images.
This way, we could imagine a FrontRow application that operates in background in 640x480 and sends all its output to an Airport Express. The rest of the display of MacOS X remaining in the native resolution of the Mac screen.
Airport Express might also encode video in MP4 and stream them back to the mac for a DVR like feature...
I see more likely that every thing operate in classic video resolution because of the size of HD video and the limit of today Internet connections. To be successfull the functionality must be usable by everyone and not every one has an HD display.
"Set top box" or AirPort Express+ which would be PC/Mac compatible. It links into the "movies" folder on a Mac or a Movies folder set up in iTunes for a PC. Interface similar to Front Row for video or iTunes for music. I'm not sure if Blue Tooth has the range, if possible use that for the remote. The device could have a memory buffer to reduce any "hick-ups" with streaming the audio/video. This should have a low price, shooting for $99.
AitPort Extreme+. This takes the Cable/Antenna/Satelite signal and converts it to IP packages for the local area network. Controlled by Front Row or AirPort Express+ interface so that the entire "experience" of video control is unified.
iMac/Mac Mini with a card slot for an optional tuner controlled by Front Row with links to iCal for PVR recording.
A 23" iMac sounds like a waste to me. It's one thing to have a bolted on 17" LCD but I'm not bolting on a computer that will quickly enough become old and crusty to a $1299 panel.
Hmm, this sounds familiar. Wait, it was the same thing again before the 20" G4 iMac introduction back in November 2003 .
Now the iMac line comes in only two models. A 23" iMac is really missing and I think only price would hold back such a model. Not anymore that the 23" panel is priced at $1300 retail from Apple.
Besides, it looks like the iMac gets too much attention lately from Apple: first Macintosh sporting PCIe graphics, first Macintosh with DDR2 memory, first and as of now the only Macintosh with the Front Row software and remote control, first and as of now the only Macintosh with a built-in camera. Overall, the only Macintosh so feature-complete.
With a 23" 1920 x 1200 display, the iMac would indeed become a full HD capable machine (right now it can play only 720p). A 2.3 GHz G5 (hopefully with double the L2 memory) inside, should be capable to decode 1080p content at full framerate. Also, faster graphics should not be an issue thermally, thanks to the much improved internal desing and bigger physical volume.
I say 23" iMac w/built-in TV tuner & dual-core G5...!!!
I would seriously doubt a dual core G5 at this point. It would make a really expensive machine as it is now. Unless the miracle happens and IBM has so good production of dual core G5 in three or four months from now, and they decide to drop the prices drastically. But don't hold your breath on that.
Certainly later, but not sure if G5 or other (Intel).
I say 23" iMac w/built-in TV tuner & dual-core G5...!!!
There's your Media Center...
Pretty sure dual core PPC is not going to happen in an iMac- and it won't even happen on intel until the power mac line has all gone quad. They need something to tempt you up to the tower grater.
Also I don't think the TV tuner is a very Mac thing. I know they did it in macs before but that was pre-steve. I think that Macs are for working on - ie processing content, editing movies, etc and for accessing content you need something more specialized like an ipod (which is just a computer with an interface geared towards content delivery). Watching TV counts as just viewing content, and so it's not really what a Mac is for.
It would make more sense to put the tv tuner in the iPod than the iMac, but that doesn't fit the digital hub strategy (I belive that's why they don't put radio tuners into iPods). I know you can watch DVDs on Macs so I may be off the mark here.
here's a bit of an aside, but it's kind of relevant:
I used to have a mac mini set up as a music server, connected to a nice set of speakers with iTunes and a little screen for selecting playlists, etc. It's a long story but I had to borrow that machine when my main mac broke, and in the interim plugged an ipod into the speakers so we still had something to listen to music on. I have to admit it that the ipod is a million times better at being a stereo than the mac mini was. It's so much easier to select things, turn the volume up and down, turn it off, etc. You don't have to think about switching applications or messing with a mouse and keyboard - it's all just there. It's in a different league. Now, the TV set in everybody's home is as good at receiving off air TV as an iPod is at being a stereo. I can't see Apple trying to compete with existing TV by building TV tuners into Macs. IMHO they are more likely to introduce things that try and leverage the content creation aspect of Macs to push editing home movies, or expand video on demand.
Also you can add a tv tuner for a small fee, and if they are removing things like modems to save cost I'd say they'd see a tv tuner as the same sort of thing. I'm not convinced Apple even want to compete with Tivo for the PVR market, but I can see this type of thing being integrated through third party add-ons.
So, here are my predictions (and I can't believe we are really doing this two months ahead):
23" imac HD - it'll be 2.3 GHz G5, slightly upgraded graphics but otherwise same as 17 and 20". They could add this as an update outside a keynote though - depends how much other stuff is on the agenda! That'll be the last update to the iMac before it goes intel (it's hard to see what you can add now apart from bumping the GHz). Super long term prediction: when the iMac goes intel it'll look the same and have essentially the same features, with just one or two non-intel related enhancements. The message here will be it's irrelevant that the processor has changed, it's still an iMac and it's still as great as before, but now greater.
Some sort of device to make it easier to get video out of your iMac and onto your TV. This could be a video airport or a mac mini with a remote, or both.
Mac minis running intel (I reckon these will be the first to go) with front row, IR sensors on the front and remote controls.
Big news will be streamed movies on demand, not downloaded. This overcomes a lot of copyright issues and gets round the 1:1 wait to download.
I'm pretty sure I'm there with 4/4. Just 2 months to wait!
Pretty sure dual core PPC is not going to happen in an iMac- and it won't even happen on intel until the power mac line has all gone quad. They need something to tempt you up to the tower grater.
Huh? How about expandability. The ability to choose your own monitor. Faster bus architecture and when we've gone to Intel...a whole different chip.
Apple will have a product that plays back the various multimedia that we have. It may not be a Mac but it'll be close.
[B]Also I don't think the TV tuner is a very Mac thing. I know they did it in macs before but that was pre-steve. I think that Macs are for working on - ie processing content, editing movies, etc and for accessing content you need something more specialized like an ipod (which is just a computer with an interface geared towards content delivery). Watching TV counts as just viewing content, and so it's not really what a Mac is for.
The reason that you need a tuner on the Mac is that is the best place for you to record TV into your library, just like the DVD/CD drive is the best place for you to RIP music into iTunes. Then again adding video content to iTMS makes this less neccessary, though at a cost and limited content. The problem is which of the available tuners to add? This could be solved with a card similar to an AirPort card.
Apple is still missing the link from the Mac to the TV in the other room, and a remote to controll iTunes in the other room.
Why add these items? To maintain a common interface and user experience and build the importance of Apples DRM and the QuickTime format to the industry.
23" imac HD - it'll be 2.3 GHz G5, slightly upgraded graphics but otherwise same as 17 and 20". They could add this as an update outside a keynote though - depends how much other stuff is on the agenda! That'll be the last update to the iMac before it goes intel (it's hard to see what you can add now apart from bumping the GHz). Super long term prediction: when the iMac goes intel it'll look the same and have essentially the same features, with just one or two non-intel related enhancements. The message here will be it's irrelevant that the processor has changed, it's still an iMac and it's still as great as before, but now greater.
If Apple wanted HD pixel-counts in the iMacs, they'd just go with 133DPI displays as with the Powerbooks. However, iMacs being consumer-centric, I don't see this happening any time soon.
Huh? How about expandability. The ability to choose your own monitor. Faster bus architecture and when we've gone to Intel...a whole different chip.
Yes and no. Certainly all you say hold very well, but I think the dominant factor in such decisions is the total production cost. At least this is what the G5 iMac leaves us understand. An affordable super-equipped computer.
Quote:
Apple will have a product that plays back the various multimedia that we have. It may not be a Mac but it'll be close.
They have a Mac that can do this; it is the Power Mac. But who can buy it and does it make sense to have such an expensive and powerful computer for personal home use?
There are too many standards out there to just have a couple of models - they need to be replacable.
But why even have a tuner in you Mac (or computer)? I can't understand the hype about (expensive) computers acting as simple recording devices.
I don't want a computer in my living room, but I do want to see and hear what I have on the computer which is placed in another room and a video enabled AirPort Express with a remote (like the D-Link DSM 320) will fit in perfectly.
Comments
Originally posted by scmax
Totally agree! This is the first time I've seen anybody mention this. For the reasons you mentioned, and because of the new Front Row. It would only make sense to come out with a larger screen so that you could see better from across the room!
I am trying to be stronger and hold out. Really need to upgrade my old blue G4, but I want that 23"!
I've been scanning the forums for rumors of an iMac HD for months but all I find are people with Hard Disk problems! My main machine just died so I have to get a replacement - I just know the 23" will be announced the moment mine ships!!
I don't see it in the living room to be honest, even with front row. The extra space would be for editing and viewing in iMovie HD.
You can never have too many pixels.
I can dream can't I?
Originally posted by cubist
I don't see why you can't drive a plasma TV (with a DVI interface) from a Mini. They need to make a dongle so you can use the remote.
I would see more likely the release of an AirPort Express (with Video) and IR sensor than that of a man Mini with a IR sensor.
The Airport Express could relay the IR signal to a mac through Wifi. The difficulty could be to stream a video to the Airpot Express.
It's conceivable to imagine the streaming of pure MP4 video directly to the Airport Express and its decoding with the same hardware as for the iPod.
What seems more difficult is to relay the display of something like FrontRow to the TV. In order to do that, the Mac will need to take the screen buffer (say in 640x480) and encode it on the fly to stream it to the Airport Express. But it can be possible: it's already done in iChat with the Webcam images.
This way, we could imagine a FrontRow application that operates in background in 640x480 and sends all its output to an Airport Express. The rest of the display of MacOS X remaining in the native resolution of the Mac screen.
Airport Express might also encode video in MP4 and stream them back to the mac for a DVR like feature...
I see more likely that every thing operate in classic video resolution because of the size of HD video and the limit of today Internet connections. To be successfull the functionality must be usable by everyone and not every one has an HD display.
"Set top box" or AirPort Express+ which would be PC/Mac compatible. It links into the "movies" folder on a Mac or a Movies folder set up in iTunes for a PC. Interface similar to Front Row for video or iTunes for music. I'm not sure if Blue Tooth has the range, if possible use that for the remote. The device could have a memory buffer to reduce any "hick-ups" with streaming the audio/video. This should have a low price, shooting for $99.
AitPort Extreme+. This takes the Cable/Antenna/Satelite signal and converts it to IP packages for the local area network. Controlled by Front Row or AirPort Express+ interface so that the entire "experience" of video control is unified.
iMac/Mac Mini with a card slot for an optional tuner controlled by Front Row with links to iCal for PVR recording.
Originally posted by hmurchison
A 23" iMac sounds like a waste to me. It's one thing to have a bolted on 17" LCD but I'm not bolting on a computer that will quickly enough become old and crusty to a $1299 panel.
Hmm, this sounds familiar. Wait, it was the same thing again before the 20" G4 iMac introduction back in November 2003
Now the iMac line comes in only two models. A 23" iMac is really missing and I think only price would hold back such a model. Not anymore that the 23" panel is priced at $1300 retail from Apple.
Besides, it looks like the iMac gets too much attention lately from Apple: first Macintosh sporting PCIe graphics, first Macintosh with DDR2 memory, first and as of now the only Macintosh with the Front Row software and remote control, first and as of now the only Macintosh with a built-in camera. Overall, the only Macintosh so feature-complete.
With a 23" 1920 x 1200 display, the iMac would indeed become a full HD capable machine (right now it can play only 720p). A 2.3 GHz G5 (hopefully with double the L2 memory) inside, should be capable to decode 1080p content at full framerate. Also, faster graphics should not be an issue thermally, thanks to the much improved internal desing and bigger physical volume.
I am just not sure if this will be for MWSF 2006.
There's your Media Center...
Originally posted by MacRonin
I say 23" iMac w/built-in TV tuner & dual-core G5...!!!
I would seriously doubt a dual core G5 at this point. It would make a really expensive machine as it is now. Unless the miracle happens and IBM has so good production of dual core G5 in three or four months from now, and they decide to drop the prices drastically. But don't hold your breath on that.
Certainly later, but not sure if G5 or other (Intel).
23" iMac Dual-Core Yonah 2.1Ghz
1GB RAM, 250GB hd
Built in NTSC Tuner
HDMI out
ExpressCard slot
128MB GPU Core Image savvy'
RF/Bluetooth/802.11g
Built in iSight
GigE,FW800, eSATA
$1999
but i would love an 23" iMac. (sans the shitty tv tuner)
Originally posted by MacRonin
I say 23" iMac w/built-in TV tuner & dual-core G5...!!!
There's your Media Center...
Pretty sure dual core PPC is not going to happen in an iMac- and it won't even happen on intel until the power mac line has all gone quad. They need something to tempt you up to the tower grater.
Also I don't think the TV tuner is a very Mac thing. I know they did it in macs before but that was pre-steve. I think that Macs are for working on - ie processing content, editing movies, etc and for accessing content you need something more specialized like an ipod (which is just a computer with an interface geared towards content delivery). Watching TV counts as just viewing content, and so it's not really what a Mac is for.
It would make more sense to put the tv tuner in the iPod than the iMac, but that doesn't fit the digital hub strategy (I belive that's why they don't put radio tuners into iPods). I know you can watch DVDs on Macs so I may be off the mark here.
here's a bit of an aside, but it's kind of relevant:
I used to have a mac mini set up as a music server, connected to a nice set of speakers with iTunes and a little screen for selecting playlists, etc. It's a long story but I had to borrow that machine when my main mac broke, and in the interim plugged an ipod into the speakers so we still had something to listen to music on. I have to admit it that the ipod is a million times better at being a stereo than the mac mini was. It's so much easier to select things, turn the volume up and down, turn it off, etc. You don't have to think about switching applications or messing with a mouse and keyboard - it's all just there. It's in a different league. Now, the TV set in everybody's home is as good at receiving off air TV as an iPod is at being a stereo. I can't see Apple trying to compete with existing TV by building TV tuners into Macs. IMHO they are more likely to introduce things that try and leverage the content creation aspect of Macs to push editing home movies, or expand video on demand.
Also you can add a tv tuner for a small fee, and if they are removing things like modems to save cost I'd say they'd see a tv tuner as the same sort of thing. I'm not convinced Apple even want to compete with Tivo for the PVR market, but I can see this type of thing being integrated through third party add-ons.
So, here are my predictions (and I can't believe we are really doing this two months ahead):
23" imac HD - it'll be 2.3 GHz G5, slightly upgraded graphics but otherwise same as 17 and 20". They could add this as an update outside a keynote though - depends how much other stuff is on the agenda! That'll be the last update to the iMac before it goes intel (it's hard to see what you can add now apart from bumping the GHz). Super long term prediction: when the iMac goes intel it'll look the same and have essentially the same features, with just one or two non-intel related enhancements. The message here will be it's irrelevant that the processor has changed, it's still an iMac and it's still as great as before, but now greater.
Some sort of device to make it easier to get video out of your iMac and onto your TV. This could be a video airport or a mac mini with a remote, or both.
Mac minis running intel (I reckon these will be the first to go) with front row, IR sensors on the front and remote controls.
Big news will be streamed movies on demand, not downloaded. This overcomes a lot of copyright issues and gets round the 1:1 wait to download.
I'm pretty sure I'm there with 4/4. Just 2 months to wait!
:-)
Pretty sure dual core PPC is not going to happen in an iMac- and it won't even happen on intel until the power mac line has all gone quad. They need something to tempt you up to the tower grater.
Huh? How about expandability. The ability to choose your own monitor. Faster bus architecture and when we've gone to Intel...a whole different chip.
Apple will have a product that plays back the various multimedia that we have. It may not be a Mac but it'll be close.
Originally posted by dilett
[B]Also I don't think the TV tuner is a very Mac thing. I know they did it in macs before but that was pre-steve. I think that Macs are for working on - ie processing content, editing movies, etc and for accessing content you need something more specialized like an ipod (which is just a computer with an interface geared towards content delivery). Watching TV counts as just viewing content, and so it's not really what a Mac is for.
The reason that you need a tuner on the Mac is that is the best place for you to record TV into your library, just like the DVD/CD drive is the best place for you to RIP music into iTunes. Then again adding video content to iTMS makes this less neccessary, though at a cost and limited content. The problem is which of the available tuners to add? This could be solved with a card similar to an AirPort card.
Apple is still missing the link from the Mac to the TV in the other room, and a remote to controll iTunes in the other room.
Why add these items? To maintain a common interface and user experience and build the importance of Apples DRM and the QuickTime format to the industry.
Originally posted by dilett
23" imac HD - it'll be 2.3 GHz G5, slightly upgraded graphics but otherwise same as 17 and 20". They could add this as an update outside a keynote though - depends how much other stuff is on the agenda! That'll be the last update to the iMac before it goes intel (it's hard to see what you can add now apart from bumping the GHz). Super long term prediction: when the iMac goes intel it'll look the same and have essentially the same features, with just one or two non-intel related enhancements. The message here will be it's irrelevant that the processor has changed, it's still an iMac and it's still as great as before, but now greater.
If Apple wanted HD pixel-counts in the iMacs, they'd just go with 133DPI displays as with the Powerbooks. However, iMacs being consumer-centric, I don't see this happening any time soon.
- Xidius
Originally posted by smalM
It would be a PAL or SECAM tuner for Europe
genius
Originally posted by hmurchison
Huh? How about expandability. The ability to choose your own monitor. Faster bus architecture and when we've gone to Intel...a whole different chip.
Yes and no. Certainly all you say hold very well, but I think the dominant factor in such decisions is the total production cost. At least this is what the G5 iMac leaves us understand. An affordable super-equipped computer.
Apple will have a product that plays back the various multimedia that we have. It may not be a Mac but it'll be close.
They have a Mac that can do this; it is the Power Mac. But who can buy it and does it make sense to have such an expensive and powerful computer for personal home use?
Originally posted by smalM
It would be a PAL or SECAM tuner for Europe
But what about DVB-T, DVB-C and DVB-S?
There are too many standards out there to just have a couple of models - they need to be replacable.
But why even have a tuner in you Mac (or computer)? I can't understand the hype about (expensive) computers acting as simple recording devices.
I don't want a computer in my living room, but I do want to see and hear what I have on the computer which is placed in another room and a video enabled AirPort Express with a remote (like the D-Link DSM 320) will fit in perfectly.
Originally posted by gar
genius
Just the same level as your rant