Intel touts power of upcoming Yonah laptop chip

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 144
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Apple going back to 32bit is a retrograde step in design, architecture and performance for short term commercial goals.



    You may be right but at this point its difficult to say for sure.



    For one Apple has not officially stated whether it would use Yonah or not. Even though everyone is sure they will.



    We are not yet privy to Apple's 2006 strategy.



    I would imagine Apple getting all developers to IA-32 is just a starting point. Another big advantage is to get them all onto Xcode and Cocoa.



    I've also recently read an article which discuessed Apple using IA-32 and the fact that OS X will undoubtly ignore all of the legacy code. So that won't be much of a detriment.



    But I do agree Apple should switch its entire line to 64 bit processors as soon as possible. Even though its full benefit cannot be used now, it will be beneficial when OS X is a full 64 bit.



    Quote:

    The AMD 64bit architecture brought with it more registers, instructions and runs completely separately from the old IA32. On AMD chips at least, it's faster than 32bit but more importantly mixing 32bit and 64bit applications is significantly harder to do than with PowerPC which has always been a 64bit architecure with direct support for 32bit applications.



    Apple so far has not stated that they will use AMD64. Intel has stated it does not like AMD64. It'll be interesting to see what they will do.
  • Reply 102 of 144
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    And it also disagrees with David Perlmutter, VP and General Manager of Intel's Mobility Group who said it wouldn't have HT.



    You don't have references. Your post sucks. Your not backing it up with anything. \ Virtually here-say AFAIAC.
  • Reply 103 of 144
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    And it also disagrees with David Perlmutter, VP and General Manager of Intel's Mobility Group who said it wouldn't have HT.



    He said the initial version would not have it, but it will later. That means the circuitry will be there from the beginning, only not accessible. Just like the P4's, the transistors were always there, but a little laser hit on the right fuse disabled that part of the front end.
  • Reply 104 of 144
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,174member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    Nobody does CAD on a laptop so that's not the issue. OpenGL is the issue.



    Wow, I will have to tell the two principals at the architecture firm I work at that they have to stop using the new 17" Dells & AutoCAD that I set up for them recently...



    Because you say nobody does CAD on a laptop...



  • Reply 105 of 144
    thttht Posts: 5,530member
    I agree with aegisdesign on this one.



    Merom is a brand new x86 microarchitecture. Different pipeline depth (~14), wider issue, and 64 bit pretty much means it's a brand new x86 architecture. Not much similarity to the P6 or P7 microarchitectures. The largest similarity will be the usage of the Intel's quad-data rate FSB, otherwise quite different and new.



    As for SMT, I think the book is still out on this one and whether Merom-based CPUs will ever use it. Intel will probably need it for enterprise servers, but for PCs and workstations, I wouldn't be too sure. It's going to be a medium-depth pipeline CPU with a good OOOE. Not a good target for SMT. It won't exactly be effective when the processor is already working hard, and presumably well, to fill its pipeline stages with instructions. We will see.
  • Reply 106 of 144
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Merom is a brand new x86 microarchitecture. Different pipeline depth (~14), wider issue, and 64 bit pretty much means it's a brand new x86 architecture. Not much similarity to the P6 or P7 microarchitectures.



    Huh? 64-bit (via EM64T) is nothing new to Intel CPUs, and pipeline length is just an evolutionary factor. Pipeline length changed during various versions of the G4, but the 7448 is hardly a "brand new architecture" compared to the 7400.
  • Reply 107 of 144
    One thing to consider is that the Pentium-M (Yonah) is a known quantity -- it's known to kick ass as a laptop chip. It has always equaled or beat mid-range desktop chips while having the best battery life.



    "The Next Generation Micro Architecture" or Merom is an unknown. It could put Yonah to shame. Or it could suck like the early P4 chips did. Just a word of warning.





    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I think people have been hoping for this for 10+ years...it hasn't happened yet.



    Apple is considerably more down-market now than they were 10 years ago.
  • Reply 108 of 144
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    You don't have references. Your post sucks. Your not backing it up with anything. \ Virtually here-say AFAIAC.



    And wikipedia as we all know is the authoritative font of all knowledge.
  • Reply 109 of 144
    Quote:

    Originally posted by IntlHarvester

    One thing to consider is that the Pentium-M (Yonah) is a known quantity -- it's known to kick ass as a laptop chip. It has always equaled or beat mid-range desktop chips while having the best battery life.



    "The Next Generation Micro Architecture" or Merom is an unknown. It could put Yonah to shame. Or it could suck like the early P4 chips did. Just a word of warning.









    Apple is considerably more down-market now than they were 10 years ago.




    True...but going any lower would tarnish their image. iPods are expensive as hell and...they sell...extremely well.*



    It's a psychological thing. Apple doesn't need to lower prices on anything...this is especially true today with the current mind share it's grabbing via iPods.



    Using cheaper parts to build something that is supposed to be high quality is, well, a Bad Idea?.



    *I had to put those 3 words together somehow. :P
  • Reply 110 of 144
    well folks i'm "sorry" to say that all your base are belong to Yonah or shall we say, PowerBooks powered by Intel Core Duo (sounds a bit weird, but get used to it!)



    unless someone screws up major on the design or power management, Yonah dualcore is a frackin' unstoppable mobile beast!!!!!



    PART 2 of the Yonah preview:

    http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=2648&p=1



    we're talking clocked at 2ghz it takes on almost head-to-head the athlon X2 dualcore 2ghz. and this is a frackin mobile processor!



    if apple plays its powerbooks, universal binary and rosetta cards right, and talking bout x1600 mobile with hardware video encoding, they could very well produce some really really superb laptops for mobile professionals based on dualcore yonah. this is just the cream of what iSteve saw that he liked.



    sigh, at least my AMD still rulz on the desktop. and, if any of you are on the 10.4.3 hack86 torrent, seed! ya bastards...
  • Reply 111 of 144
    I think it's clear that the iBooks and PowerBooks will see a 2 fold (if not more) increase in speed come the release of Intel Macs *as well as* an increase in battery life.



    I dunno how true performance-per-watt that Jobs described this summer is going to pan out, but so far it seems pretty accurate.



    I may have to put the ol' 2x800 G4 to sleep come January. The laptops will be 3+ times faster than my desktop (well, it is a computer approaching 5 years in age.)
  • Reply 112 of 144
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,572member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    And it also disagrees with David Perlmutter, VP and General Manager of Intel's Mobility Group who said it wouldn't have HT.



    This entire "new" line of chips actually goes back to the P III line. That is the line that Intel's "M" series of chips has been based upon.



    The Netburst comes from the PIII successor, the P4 (Pentium 4). After the first half of the yesr, that will fade out quickly.



    But the new line is not really "new". It's refined, added to, etc., but it comes from the older line of the Pentium 3.



    That ended up as a parallel development path. Straight up, for desktops, workstations, and servers, came the Pentium 4, evolving into the Prescott, and its successor.



    But from the Pentium 3 also came the "M" (Mobile) line. This is the ansestor to the line that we will be seeing in 2006.



    Intel can use as many numbers to designate it as they like, but the developmental line is well known.



    From the Pentium 1 came the Pentium 2, came the Pentium 3, came both the "M" AND the Pentium 4.



    Let me make what I'm saying a bit clearer.



    While the circuitry within the Merom will be new ('from the ground up"), the design philosophy is continued from the "M" line. A short (relatively) pipeline of about 14 stages. dual core, shared L2, and low power design. Same memory bandwidth problems.
  • Reply 113 of 144
    And the P!!! also "makes the internet faster"...so since everything is based on the P!!! we're in for a treat when we browse the net.
  • Reply 114 of 144
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,572member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    And the P!!! also "makes the internet faster"...so since everything is based on the P!!! we're in for a treat when we browse the net.



    I hope so!
  • Reply 115 of 144
    Windows laptop maker Yonah announcements/rumors are starting to dribble out.



    http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news...Inside%21.html



    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28454



    The second article says Dell will have machines at 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, and 2.16GHz. If Apple gets processors at the same speeds, I'd guess iBooks at 1.6 & 1.8, PBooks at 2.0 and 2.16. There may be speed overlaps between the two lines with the feature differentiation that Apple has maintained in the past.



    If the other manufacturers are this ready for Yonah, I REALLY hope Apple doesn't miss the opportunity to announce at MWSF. How sad if Apple announced new machines close to June well after everyone else is shipping.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 116 of 144
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,075member
    All those Dells are single core, so maybe no dual core notebooks?
  • Reply 117 of 144
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,572member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    All those Dells are single core, so maybe no dual core notebooks?



    If the ThinkSecret article is correct, maybe no single-core notebooks.



    http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0512yonah.html
  • Reply 118 of 144
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,572member
    Regarding the Yonah speeds and power usage, this is interesting.



    I just wish that Apple would let us overclock the way PC makers often do.



    I know that it would lead to possible stability problems. But those who do it understand this.



    I've had many upgrade cards for my Mac's over the years that let me do this. It's not impossible.



    In light of this article of course:



    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28431



    And for the old Netburst we've been talking about:



    http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28412
  • Reply 119 of 144
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    All those Dells are single core, so maybe no dual core notebooks?



    No, only the first model is single-core (#756), the 4 others are dual-core (#T1x00).

    It seems that the old anandtech rumours about which yonah chips will be available in january are "true":

    one single core @ 1.66GHz, and some dual-cores from 1.5 to 2.16GHz...

    But it could be a very old speculation document, as it contains old Intel part numbers.



    I still believe Apple could launch a new 13" iBook as well as a new 13" PowerBook in January:

    - 13" iBook single-core Combo $999 (in black or white plastics)

    - 13" iBook single-core SD+bigger HD $1199 (in black or white plastics)

    - 13" PowerBook dual-core SuperDrive $1499 (metallic enclosure)
  • Reply 120 of 144
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I just wish that Apple would let us overclock the way PC makers often do



    Can you over clock a Sony Vaio?



    I'm sure there would be problems with thin latop's, if you added more heat than it was originally designed for.
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