Since the source was unnamed this is basically hearsay.
Tough week for you guys. Suck it up..you'll be ok.
And yet, if the sales figures were good, don't you think Toshiba would be yelling them from the highest mountaintop? I think it says something that Toshiba wants to keep that figure under wraps.
For someone who claims to be format-agnostic, you sure do take glee in any misstep Blu-ray takes. You'd better hope you're not wrong, because nobody here will ever let you live it down. Not to mention your little gloating with "I won round one." Sounds an awful lot like "shock and awe" to me, and I think we all know how well that campaign has turned out in the years since. And we don't have to hide our distaste for HD-DVD, either, since we don't go around claiming, "we'll be okay with whichever one wins."
Toshiba is an old school conservative Japanese company. Their policy is that they don't release results.
I do indeed take glee in Blu-Ray missteps. I'm growing weary of the constant proprietary formats that Sony pushes. I like minidisc and bought a home player and portable. I liked the idea of SACD..but like everything Sony has to have their own format complete with gonzo royalties and they always find a way to screw it up.
Toshiba is a company that doesn't embody the ego of a Sony but they do a damn good job with their products. Their solution was elegant enough and met the needs of Hollywood. Why not root for them? Why should I encourage yet another foray into "Hot Invented Here" syndrome from Sony?
I've supported HD DVD from day 1..no one can call me a fair weather fan. Someone has to deliver a few reality checks around here.
Seriously, murch, everyone has heard your spiel 1000 times by now. I'm not sure you've convinced anyone. This discussion is now little more than a pissing contest between you and [pretty much] everyone else.
The only thing you've really managed to accomplish is to alienate a lot of people who might have considered HD-DVD othewrwise.
Toshiba is an old school conservative Japanese company. Their policy is that they don't release results.
I do indeed take glee in Blu-Ray missteps. I'm growing weary of the constant proprietary formats that Sony pushes. I like minidisc and bought a home player and portable. I liked the idea of SACD..but like everything Sony has to have their own format complete with gonzo royalties and they always find a way to screw it up.
Toshiba is a company that doesn't embody the ego of a Sony but they do a damn good job with their products. Their solution was elegant enough and met the needs of Hollywood. Why not root for them? Why should I encourage yet another foray into "Hot Invented Here" syndrome from Sony?
I've supported HD DVD from day 1..no one can call me a fair weather fan. Someone has to deliver a few reality checks around here.
It's a good thing Sony isn't the only one pushing Blu-ray, it will do you good to remember that. So, if in your perception, Sony is always screwing up, then I surely think Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp, Philips, TDK, Dell, Hitachi, LG, HP, will pick up where you think Sony screws up.
And Toshiba's format isn't propreitary? Complete with Microsoft iHD and at times with VC-1? Both formats have some form of proprietary functions in them. Moreover, Blu-ray has royalties going to numerous companies, so don't try to paint the picture that somehow Sony is going home with all the royalties. This is the main reason of many that the agrument about Blu-ray being the next Betamax is so flawed.
Regarding Toshiba meeting the needs of Hollywood, this still remains to be seen. Especially considering that a lot of the HD DVD movies released currently are already getting dangerously close to the 30 GB maximum storage capacity of HD DVD even when using H.264/VC-1 and compressed audio (with no HD extras). Also, especially considering that they have met the needs of only the minority of Hollywood, as the majority of Hollywood doesn't appear to think so.
Regardless of the missteps of both camps (HD DVD or Blu-ray), the fact is is that we are still in an early adoption market, and the format war will continue on through to at least 2008.
I want strong studio support, interesting hardware AND more storage space.
And considering how buggy Tosh's player is, yes I'll pay more (although £425 isn't more).
You mean how it "was" buggy. Very little complaints after the 1.2 firmware update. Even with the bugs the avg HD DVD discs is noticably superior to most of the Blu-Ray discs shipping. That won't change until Sony gets VC-1 on their discs or DL discs.
We'll have to see about Studio support. Frankly I think we see at least one Major announce movies for HD DVD. The latest delay of the Sony BD player until Oct should seal that deal.
Interesting hardware...then Blu-Ray isn't your champion. No USB ports...no ethernet on a player that is 2x as expensive. You gotta ask yourself just where are they putting the extra money? In their pockets I presume.
Besides what's more exciting than this?
Funny thing is not only has Toshiba beat the BDA to market with players they're going to beat them in recorders too. Shipping mid July before Sony even has their player out the door. You guys are betting on the wrong horse.
Seriously, murch, everyone has heard your spiel 1000 times by now. I'm not sure you've convinced anyone. This discussion is now little more than a pissing contest between you and [pretty much] everyone else.
The only thing you've really managed to accomplish is to alienate a lot of people who might have considered HD-DVD othewrwise.
I figure i'm good for about a million cycles on the spiel'o'meter. I'm sure I've helped at least someone cut through the hype. It may be a pissing contest but the series of events clearly show that I'm not the one taking most of the piss. I'm naturally adversarial, a son of a lawyer with legal aspirations of my own. I'm simply not going to capitulate. Truth is i've been proven wrong very few times her. I don't worry about following the crowd. I'm very into discussing things from a specific context.
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy
Has a weak interactive layer
Spotty backwards compatibility
to prevail? Is it THAT easy to buy peoples allegiance. Give them a little bit more storage space and they'll let you kick'em in the teeth.
Twice the player costs - If you are talking standalone player costs without regards to subsidizing, then true, but the PS3 is the same cost at $499 so if we are talking about subsidized players like both Toshiba models and the PS3, then you are false. Cost is the same.
Twice the DRM - Yes, Blu-ray provides more protection with BD+ and ROM-mark on top of AACS that both HD DVD and Blu-ray will use, but does this necessarily equate to "twice" the DRM. Don't know, it could provide 1 and 1/2 the DRM or 3 times the DRM. But, I do know this, the majority of Hollywood seems to deem it necessary seeing how they back Blu-ray. Are you just upset that it will be harder for you to pirate movies? I wouldn't worry to much, there will probably be a crack soon after Blu-ray reaches domination.
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy - Now you are just reaching. You don't know when they decided to incorporate the MMC spec inside Blu-ray and even more so that they were forced. Besides, does it matter? They support MMC, so your point is irrevalent.
Has a weak interactive layer - And this is why Java is used widely in the entertainment business, hmm-hmm? Because it is weak, right? Any more FUDtastic points? Oh wait, see the next statement you made...
Spotty backwards compatibility - Because two players that you have found don't support only CD playback (Sony and Pioneer), you claim spotty backwards compatibility. Even though, the current Samsung release plays them, the Philips player will, the Sharp player will, and the Panasonic model that was announced today and shipping in September will? Furthermore, all will be and are DVD backward compatible, so I don't see not having CD playback on two players is a big point for you. Besides, with Sony and Pioneer pushing back their release dates, they very well include the playback of CDs as an option when they release.
Ugh. The last thing the country needs is another lawyer. (some sarcasm)
Please, though, if you do become a lawyer, stick to civil law, which may be the last vestige of our judicial & court system that actually functions in a somewhat positive way.
You mean how it "was" buggy. Very little complaints after the 1.2 firmware update. Even with the bugs the avg HD DVD discs is noticably superior to most of the Blu-Ray discs shipping. That won't change until Sony gets VC-1 on their discs or DL discs.
We'll have to see about Studio support. Frankly I think we see at least one Major announce movies for HD DVD. The latest delay of the Sony BD player until Oct should seal that deal.
Ahh there's the FUD I was talking about. Still hoping for Disney to jump ship? Keep hoping, as it is a bit late or dare I say early, to be thinking any Hollywood studio will be defecting to HD DVD. In reality, I think the studio you need to worry about is Paramount, who have yet to announce any titles for HD DVD...nor any announcenment to release them in the future...a bit disconcerting.
Quote:
Interesting hardware...then Blu-Ray isn't your champion. No USB ports...no ethernet on a player that is 2x as expensive. You gotta ask yourself just where are they putting the extra money? In their pockets I presume.
Besides what's more exciting than this?
Funny thing is not only has Toshiba beat the BDA to market with players they're going to beat them in recorders too. Shipping mid July before Sony even has their player out the door. You guys are betting on the wrong horse.
Wrong yet again Murch. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I heard you claim that you were wrong very few times here in another post. See this article...
Here is a bit of the article that I want to stress with you...
Toshiba has no intention of shipping the new machine, RD-A1, outside Japan and aims to sell 10,000 units by December.
Sony has been offering Blu-ray-based recorders since 2003, although its initial retail list price of 450,000 yen and a lack of software kept them from becoming widely adopted.
So how is Toshiba going to be first to market again? And, again, only in Japan? With yet, oh look, yet another 10,000 units. Your betting on a delusional horse.
Regarding "where they are putting the extra money," it is clear that the initial Blu-ray players are right in line with the cost of CD and DVD players were historically at launch and the reason being is they are recouping R&D costs. Whereas, if you look at the Toshiba player, it is subsidized as the Blu-ray standalone players are not, so your really not giving an honest and accurate statement when you look at the comparison. If you want to be accurate compare the cost of the subsidized Toshiba with the subsidized PS3,...oh, they are the same, wow go figure. $499, and the PS3 will sell in the millions, not thousands and play games, and have USB ports, and have and have a gigabit ethernet port, and output 1080i/1080P. I'd call that real interesting hardware.
HDMI 1.3 DOUBLES BANDWIDTH, DELIVERS BILLIONS OF COLORS FOR HDTVs
High-Definition Multimedia Interface Also Adds Newest Digital Audio Formats, Mini Connector and Lip Sync
SUNNYVALE, Calif., June 22, 2006 ? The seven HDMI Founder companies (Hitachi, Ltd., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic), Royal Philips Electronics, Silicon Image, Inc., Sony Corp., Thomson, Inc. and Toshiba Corp.) today released a major enhancement of the High-Definition Multimedia Interface? (HDMI?) specification, the de facto standard digital interface for high definition consumer electronics. HDMI 1.3 will enable the next generation of HDTVs, PCs and DVD players to transmit and display content in billions of colors with unprecedented vividness and accuracy.
The HDMI 1.3 specification more than doubles HDMI?s bandwidth and adds support for Deep Color technology, a broader color space, new digital audio formats, automatic audio/video synching capability (?lip sync?), and an optional smaller connector for use with personal photo and video devices. The update reflects the determination of the HDMI founders to ensure HDMI continues evolving ahead of future consumer demands.
The update arrives at a time of strong momentum for the HDMI standard. HDMI Licensing, LLC today announced that more than 400 makers of consumer electronics and PC products worldwide have adopted HDMI. Market researcher In-Stat expects 60 million devices featuring HDMI to ship in 2006.
?PLAYSTATION®3 will be the most advanced computer platform for enjoying a wide range of entertainment content, including the latest games and HD movies, in the home,? said Ken Kutaragi, president and group CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. ?By introducing the next-generation HDMI 1.3 technology, with its high speed and deep color capabilities, PS3 will push the boundaries of audiovisual quality to the next level of more natural and smoother expression on the latest large flat panel displays.?
"HDMI is an established cornerstone for the whole High Definition TV industry and Philips is extremely pleased to see such significant improvements for picture and sound quality with this new version,? said Johan van de Ven, CTO and Senior Vice President of Philips Consumer Electronics. ?We look forward to continuing to work with other HDMI Founder companies to extend the scope of HDMI across new devices and applications, while remaining entirely committed to ensuring full backward compatibility with existing products."
With the adoption of Deep Color and the xvYCC color space, HDMI 1.3 removes the previous interface-related restrictions on color selection. The interface will no longer be a constraining pipe that forces all content to fit within a limited set of colors, unlike all previous video interfaces.
New HDMI 1.3 capabilities include:
Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
Deep color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.
Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors
Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors
Enables increased contrast ratio
Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, four times more shades of gray would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more
Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection.
Next-generation ?xvYCC? color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals
Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately
Enables displays with more natural and vivid colors
New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy.
New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI?s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio?.
Products implementing the new HDMI specification will continue to be backward compatible with earlier HDMI products.
?The dramatic increase in maximum speed achieved in HDMI 1.3 will enable HDMI to stay far ahead of the bandwidth demands of future high definition source and display devices,? said Leslie Chard, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. ?As the de facto standard digital interface for the high definition and consumer electronics markets, HDMI is implementing the most innovative technologies today to fulfill the demands of tomorrow?s consumers.?
The latest HDMI specification can be downloaded at no cost by visiting www.hdmi.org.
Ugh. The last thing the country needs is another lawyer. (some sarcasm)
Please, though, if you do become a lawyer, stick to civil law, which may be the last vestige of our judicial & court system that actually functions in a somewhat positive way.
I know <smile> It's not for the money. I'm too old to go the big firm route. My mother does education and disability amongst over stuff so no ambulance chasing here. Marzetta7 and I are cut from the same stone. He's stubborn as hell and so am I. Actuall he's more stubborn..he won't buy a HD DVD player and I damn near bought the Terminator disc on Blu-Ray for $12 just to be ready until common sense kicked in. I won't have a PS3 for months.
Quote:
Wrong yet again Murch. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I heard you claim that you were wrong very few times here in another post. See this article...
Here is a bit of the article that I want to stress with you...
Toshiba has no intention of shipping the new machine, RD-A1, outside Japan and aims to sell 10,000 units by December.
Marzetta7 I "do" give you more credit than that. Thus I purposely avoided stating that they would ship in the US. Looking at the specs it's clear that this unit would benefit Japan more than America which loves DVR and not optical records(which outsell players in Japan)
I even stated something like this on the Blu-Ray forums
Twice the player costs - If you are talking standalone player costs without regards to subsidizing, then true, but the PS3 is the same cost at $499 so if we are talking about subsidized players like both Toshiba models and the PS3, then you are false. Cost is the same.
I'm sort of backing off of talk about the subsidized stuff. It can't be proven yet. The PS3 doesn't ship until November.
Twice the DRM - Yes, Blu-ray provides more protection with BD+ and ROM-mark on top of AACS that both HD DVD and Blu-ray will use, but does this necessarily equate to "twice" the DRM. Don't know, it could provide 1 and 1/2 the DRM or 3 times the DRM. But, I do know this, the majority of Hollywood seems to deem it necessary seeing how they back Blu-ray. Are you just upset that it will be harder for you to pirate movies? I wouldn't worry to much, there will probably be a crack soon after Blu-ray reaches domination.
Marzetta 1+1= 2 or twice. I don't know what math you're attempting to demonstrate here. Sure studios love the feature of extra DRM but how does that benefit you?
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy - Now you are just reaching. You don't know when they decided to incorporate the MMC spec inside Blu-ray and even more so that they were forced. Besides, does it matter? They support MMC, so your point is irrevalent.
The BDA was pretty non-committal about MMC. BD+ and MMC would seem to be a conflict.
Has a weak interactive layer - And this is why Java is used widely in the entertainment business, hmm-hmm? Because it is weak, right? Any more FUDtastic points? Oh wait, see the next statement you made...
Can you explain why Java is better than iHD?
Spotty backwards compatibility - Because two players that you have found don't support only CD playback (Sony and Pioneer), you claim spotty backwards compatibility. Even though, the current Samsung release plays them, the Philips player will, the Sharp player will, and the Panasonic model that was announced today and shipping in September will? Furthermore, all will be and are DVD backward compatible, so I don't see not having CD playback on two players is a big point for you. Besides, with Sony and Pioneer pushing back their release dates, they very well include the playback of CDs as an option when they release.
Two players that don't support CD playback should enable me to proclaim CD support is Spotty right? How is that FUD when you just corroborate the lack of support in two different players?
Any more FUD you need me to shoot down?
I'm not sure you really shot anything down. CD playback is not guaranteed, BD players have twice the DRM and they still cost twice as much at least until Nov
Comments
Toshiba won't say how many players it has shipped, but sources peg the initial rollout at about 10,000 units.
Since the source was unnamed this is basically hearsay.
Tough week for you guys. Suck it up..you'll be ok.
Originally posted by hmurchison
No they didn't peg anything. The quote is
Since the source was unnamed this is basically hearsay.
Tough week for you guys. Suck it up..you'll be ok.
Of course it is...
Indeed, it has been a tough week for Blu-ray. I know Blu-ray will be OK, especially when they become the next HD format.
Originally posted by hmurchison
No they didn't peg anything.
Since the source was unnamed this is basically hearsay.
Tough week for you guys. Suck it up..you'll be ok.
And yet, if the sales figures were good, don't you think Toshiba would be yelling them from the highest mountaintop? I think it says something that Toshiba wants to keep that figure under wraps.
For someone who claims to be format-agnostic, you sure do take glee in any misstep Blu-ray takes. You'd better hope you're not wrong, because nobody here will ever let you live it down. Not to mention your little gloating with "I won round one." Sounds an awful lot like "shock and awe" to me, and I think we all know how well that campaign has turned out in the years since. And we don't have to hide our distaste for HD-DVD, either, since we don't go around claiming, "we'll be okay with whichever one wins."
Toshiba is an old school conservative Japanese company. Their policy is that they don't release results.
I do indeed take glee in Blu-Ray missteps. I'm growing weary of the constant proprietary formats that Sony pushes. I like minidisc and bought a home player and portable. I liked the idea of SACD..but like everything Sony has to have their own format complete with gonzo royalties and they always find a way to screw it up.
Toshiba is a company that doesn't embody the ego of a Sony but they do a damn good job with their products. Their solution was elegant enough and met the needs of Hollywood. Why not root for them? Why should I encourage yet another foray into "Hot Invented Here" syndrome from Sony?
I've supported HD DVD from day 1..no one can call me a fair weather fan. Someone has to deliver a few reality checks around here.
not much of that over the last 5/6 pages on this thread from ANYONE.
just a load of horn blowing and i tells ya's.. just you wait, but you cant rely on's and toy-from-pram-throwing.
still its fun to read
Much Cheapness!!
While I want Blu-Ray to prevail, I hope they price HD-DVDs this low too, that way the consumer wins.
While I want Blu-Ray to prevail,
So you want a format that has
Twice the player costs
Twice the DRM
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy
Has a weak interactive layer
Spotty backwards compatibility
to prevail? Is it THAT easy to buy peoples allegiance. Give them a little bit more storage space and they'll let you kick'em in the teeth.
$3500 and beefy.
Originally posted by hmurchison
So you want a format that has
Twice the player costs
Twice the DRM
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy
Has a weak interactive layer
Spotty backwards compatibility
to prevail? Is it THAT easy to buy peoples allegiance. Give them a little bit more storage space and they'll let you kick'em in the teeth.
I want strong studio support, interesting hardware AND more storage space.
And considering how buggy Tosh's player is, yes I'll pay more (although £425 isn't more).
The only thing you've really managed to accomplish is to alienate a lot of people who might have considered HD-DVD othewrwise.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Nope.
Toshiba is an old school conservative Japanese company. Their policy is that they don't release results.
I do indeed take glee in Blu-Ray missteps. I'm growing weary of the constant proprietary formats that Sony pushes. I like minidisc and bought a home player and portable. I liked the idea of SACD..but like everything Sony has to have their own format complete with gonzo royalties and they always find a way to screw it up.
Toshiba is a company that doesn't embody the ego of a Sony but they do a damn good job with their products. Their solution was elegant enough and met the needs of Hollywood. Why not root for them? Why should I encourage yet another foray into "Hot Invented Here" syndrome from Sony?
I've supported HD DVD from day 1..no one can call me a fair weather fan. Someone has to deliver a few reality checks around here.
It's a good thing Sony isn't the only one pushing Blu-ray, it will do you good to remember that. So, if in your perception, Sony is always screwing up, then I surely think Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp, Philips, TDK, Dell, Hitachi, LG, HP, will pick up where you think Sony screws up.
And Toshiba's format isn't propreitary? Complete with Microsoft iHD and at times with VC-1? Both formats have some form of proprietary functions in them. Moreover, Blu-ray has royalties going to numerous companies, so don't try to paint the picture that somehow Sony is going home with all the royalties. This is the main reason of many that the agrument about Blu-ray being the next Betamax is so flawed.
Regarding Toshiba meeting the needs of Hollywood, this still remains to be seen. Especially considering that a lot of the HD DVD movies released currently are already getting dangerously close to the 30 GB maximum storage capacity of HD DVD even when using H.264/VC-1 and compressed audio (with no HD extras). Also, especially considering that they have met the needs of only the minority of Hollywood, as the majority of Hollywood doesn't appear to think so.
Regardless of the missteps of both camps (HD DVD or Blu-ray), the fact is is that we are still in an early adoption market, and the format war will continue on through to at least 2008.
Originally posted by Blackcat
I want strong studio support, interesting hardware AND more storage space.
And considering how buggy Tosh's player is, yes I'll pay more (although £425 isn't more).
You mean how it "was" buggy. Very little complaints after the 1.2 firmware update. Even with the bugs the avg HD DVD discs is noticably superior to most of the Blu-Ray discs shipping. That won't change until Sony gets VC-1 on their discs or DL discs.
We'll have to see about Studio support. Frankly I think we see at least one Major announce movies for HD DVD. The latest delay of the Sony BD player until Oct should seal that deal.
Interesting hardware...then Blu-Ray isn't your champion. No USB ports...no ethernet on a player that is 2x as expensive. You gotta ask yourself just where are they putting the extra money? In their pockets I presume.
Besides what's more exciting than this?
Funny thing is not only has Toshiba beat the BDA to market with players they're going to beat them in recorders too. Shipping mid July before Sony even has their player out the door. You guys are betting on the wrong horse.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Sweet!
But Sony is capible of doing a flagship product like this, like they did with the SCD-1. The SCD-1 didn't push SACD into a win, and neither will this.
Mass market for HD video is with the PS3 or nothing.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Seriously, murch, everyone has heard your spiel 1000 times by now. I'm not sure you've convinced anyone. This discussion is now little more than a pissing contest between you and [pretty much] everyone else.
The only thing you've really managed to accomplish is to alienate a lot of people who might have considered HD-DVD othewrwise.
I figure i'm good for about a million cycles on the spiel'o'meter. I'm sure I've helped at least someone cut through the hype. It may be a pissing contest but the series of events clearly show that I'm not the one taking most of the piss. I'm naturally adversarial, a son of a lawyer with legal aspirations of my own. I'm simply not going to capitulate. Truth is i've been proven wrong very few times her. I don't worry about following the crowd. I'm very into discussing things from a specific context.
Originally posted by hmurchison
So you want a format that has
Twice the player costs
Twice the DRM
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy
Has a weak interactive layer
Spotty backwards compatibility
to prevail? Is it THAT easy to buy peoples allegiance. Give them a little bit more storage space and they'll let you kick'em in the teeth.
Twice the player costs - If you are talking standalone player costs without regards to subsidizing, then true, but the PS3 is the same cost at $499 so if we are talking about subsidized players like both Toshiba models and the PS3, then you are false. Cost is the same.
Twice the DRM - Yes, Blu-ray provides more protection with BD+ and ROM-mark on top of AACS that both HD DVD and Blu-ray will use, but does this necessarily equate to "twice" the DRM. Don't know, it could provide 1 and 1/2 the DRM or 3 times the DRM. But, I do know this, the majority of Hollywood seems to deem it necessary seeing how they back Blu-ray. Are you just upset that it will be harder for you to pirate movies? I wouldn't worry to much, there will probably be a crack soon after Blu-ray reaches domination.
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy - Now you are just reaching. You don't know when they decided to incorporate the MMC spec inside Blu-ray and even more so that they were forced. Besides, does it matter? They support MMC, so your point is irrevalent.
Has a weak interactive layer - And this is why Java is used widely in the entertainment business, hmm-hmm? Because it is weak, right? Any more FUDtastic points? Oh wait, see the next statement you made...
Spotty backwards compatibility - Because two players that you have found don't support only CD playback (Sony and Pioneer), you claim spotty backwards compatibility. Even though, the current Samsung release plays them, the Philips player will, the Sharp player will, and the Panasonic model that was announced today and shipping in September will? Furthermore, all will be and are DVD backward compatible, so I don't see not having CD playback on two players is a big point for you. Besides, with Sony and Pioneer pushing back their release dates, they very well include the playback of CDs as an option when they release.
Any more FUD you need me to shoot down?
Please, though, if you do become a lawyer, stick to civil law, which may be the last vestige of our judicial & court system that actually functions in a somewhat positive way.
Originally posted by hmurchison
You mean how it "was" buggy. Very little complaints after the 1.2 firmware update. Even with the bugs the avg HD DVD discs is noticably superior to most of the Blu-Ray discs shipping. That won't change until Sony gets VC-1 on their discs or DL discs.
We'll have to see about Studio support. Frankly I think we see at least one Major announce movies for HD DVD. The latest delay of the Sony BD player until Oct should seal that deal.
Ahh there's the FUD I was talking about. Still hoping for Disney to jump ship? Keep hoping, as it is a bit late or dare I say early, to be thinking any Hollywood studio will be defecting to HD DVD. In reality, I think the studio you need to worry about is Paramount, who have yet to announce any titles for HD DVD...nor any announcenment to release them in the future...a bit disconcerting.
Interesting hardware...then Blu-Ray isn't your champion. No USB ports...no ethernet on a player that is 2x as expensive. You gotta ask yourself just where are they putting the extra money? In their pockets I presume.
Besides what's more exciting than this?
Funny thing is not only has Toshiba beat the BDA to market with players they're going to beat them in recorders too. Shipping mid July before Sony even has their player out the door. You guys are betting on the wrong horse.
Wrong yet again Murch. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I heard you claim that you were wrong very few times here in another post. See this article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062200362.html
Here is a bit of the article that I want to stress with you...
Toshiba has no intention of shipping the new machine, RD-A1, outside Japan and aims to sell 10,000 units by December.
Sony has been offering Blu-ray-based recorders since 2003, although its initial retail list price of 450,000 yen and a lack of software kept them from becoming widely adopted.
So how is Toshiba going to be first to market again? And, again, only in Japan? With yet, oh look, yet another 10,000 units. Your betting on a delusional horse.
Regarding "where they are putting the extra money," it is clear that the initial Blu-ray players are right in line with the cost of CD and DVD players were historically at launch and the reason being is they are recouping R&D costs. Whereas, if you look at the Toshiba player, it is subsidized as the Blu-ray standalone players are not, so your really not giving an honest and accurate statement when you look at the comparison. If you want to be accurate compare the cost of the subsidized Toshiba with the subsidized PS3,...oh, they are the same, wow go figure. $499, and the PS3 will sell in the millions, not thousands and play games, and have USB ports, and have and have a gigabit ethernet port, and output 1080i/1080P. I'd call that real interesting hardware.
http://www.hdmi.org/press/pr/pr_20060622.asp
HDMI 1.3 DOUBLES BANDWIDTH, DELIVERS BILLIONS OF COLORS FOR HDTVs
High-Definition Multimedia Interface Also Adds Newest Digital Audio Formats, Mini Connector and Lip Sync
SUNNYVALE, Calif., June 22, 2006 ? The seven HDMI Founder companies (Hitachi, Ltd., Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic), Royal Philips Electronics, Silicon Image, Inc., Sony Corp., Thomson, Inc. and Toshiba Corp.) today released a major enhancement of the High-Definition Multimedia Interface? (HDMI?) specification, the de facto standard digital interface for high definition consumer electronics. HDMI 1.3 will enable the next generation of HDTVs, PCs and DVD players to transmit and display content in billions of colors with unprecedented vividness and accuracy.
The HDMI 1.3 specification more than doubles HDMI?s bandwidth and adds support for Deep Color technology, a broader color space, new digital audio formats, automatic audio/video synching capability (?lip sync?), and an optional smaller connector for use with personal photo and video devices. The update reflects the determination of the HDMI founders to ensure HDMI continues evolving ahead of future consumer demands.
The update arrives at a time of strong momentum for the HDMI standard. HDMI Licensing, LLC today announced that more than 400 makers of consumer electronics and PC products worldwide have adopted HDMI. Market researcher In-Stat expects 60 million devices featuring HDMI to ship in 2006.
?PLAYSTATION®3 will be the most advanced computer platform for enjoying a wide range of entertainment content, including the latest games and HD movies, in the home,? said Ken Kutaragi, president and group CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. ?By introducing the next-generation HDMI 1.3 technology, with its high speed and deep color capabilities, PS3 will push the boundaries of audiovisual quality to the next level of more natural and smoother expression on the latest large flat panel displays.?
"HDMI is an established cornerstone for the whole High Definition TV industry and Philips is extremely pleased to see such significant improvements for picture and sound quality with this new version,? said Johan van de Ven, CTO and Senior Vice President of Philips Consumer Electronics. ?We look forward to continuing to work with other HDMI Founder companies to extend the scope of HDMI across new devices and applications, while remaining entirely committed to ensuring full backward compatibility with existing products."
With the adoption of Deep Color and the xvYCC color space, HDMI 1.3 removes the previous interface-related restrictions on color selection. The interface will no longer be a constraining pipe that forces all content to fit within a limited set of colors, unlike all previous video interfaces.
New HDMI 1.3 capabilities include:
Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth from 165MHz (4.95 gigabits per second) to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future high definition display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
Deep color: HDMI 1.3 supports 30-bit, 36-bit and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 24-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification.
Lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors
Eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors
Enables increased contrast ratio
Can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white. At 30-bit pixel depth, four times more shades of gray would be the minimum, and the typical improvement would be eight times or more
Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 removes virtually all limits on color selection.
Next-generation ?xvYCC? color space supports 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals
Lets HDTVs display colors more accurately
Enables displays with more natural and vivid colors
New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy.
New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI?s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio?.
Products implementing the new HDMI specification will continue to be backward compatible with earlier HDMI products.
?The dramatic increase in maximum speed achieved in HDMI 1.3 will enable HDMI to stay far ahead of the bandwidth demands of future high definition source and display devices,? said Leslie Chard, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC. ?As the de facto standard digital interface for the high definition and consumer electronics markets, HDMI is implementing the most innovative technologies today to fulfill the demands of tomorrow?s consumers.?
The latest HDMI specification can be downloaded at no cost by visiting www.hdmi.org.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Ugh. The last thing the country needs is another lawyer. (some sarcasm)
Please, though, if you do become a lawyer, stick to civil law, which may be the last vestige of our judicial & court system that actually functions in a somewhat positive way.
I know <smile> It's not for the money. I'm too old to go the big firm route. My mother does education and disability amongst over stuff so no ambulance chasing here. Marzetta7 and I are cut from the same stone. He's stubborn as hell and so am I. Actuall he's more stubborn..he won't buy a HD DVD player and I damn near bought the Terminator disc on Blu-Ray for $12 just to be ready until common sense kicked in. I won't have a PS3 for months.
Wrong yet again Murch. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I heard you claim that you were wrong very few times here in another post. See this article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6062200362.html
Here is a bit of the article that I want to stress with you...
Toshiba has no intention of shipping the new machine, RD-A1, outside Japan and aims to sell 10,000 units by December.
Marzetta7 I "do" give you more credit than that. Thus I purposely avoided stating that they would ship in the US. Looking at the specs it's clear that this unit would benefit Japan more than America which loves DVR and not optical records(which outsell players in Japan)
I even stated something like this on the Blu-Ray forums
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=1864.
Though thank your for that link. Confirms what I assumed would be the case.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Twice the player costs - If you are talking standalone player costs without regards to subsidizing, then true, but the PS3 is the same cost at $499 so if we are talking about subsidized players like both Toshiba models and the PS3, then you are false. Cost is the same.
I'm sort of backing off of talk about the subsidized stuff. It can't be proven yet. The PS3 doesn't ship until November.
Twice the DRM - Yes, Blu-ray provides more protection with BD+ and ROM-mark on top of AACS that both HD DVD and Blu-ray will use, but does this necessarily equate to "twice" the DRM. Don't know, it could provide 1 and 1/2 the DRM or 3 times the DRM. But, I do know this, the majority of Hollywood seems to deem it necessary seeing how they back Blu-ray. Are you just upset that it will be harder for you to pirate movies? I wouldn't worry to much, there will probably be a crack soon after Blu-ray reaches domination.
Marzetta 1+1= 2 or twice. I don't know what math you're attempting to demonstrate here. Sure studios love the feature of extra DRM but how does that benefit you?
Had to to forced into support Mandatory Managed Copy - Now you are just reaching. You don't know when they decided to incorporate the MMC spec inside Blu-ray and even more so that they were forced. Besides, does it matter? They support MMC, so your point is irrevalent.
The BDA was pretty non-committal about MMC. BD+ and MMC would seem to be a conflict.
Has a weak interactive layer - And this is why Java is used widely in the entertainment business, hmm-hmm? Because it is weak, right? Any more FUDtastic points? Oh wait, see the next statement you made...
Can you explain why Java is better than iHD?
Spotty backwards compatibility - Because two players that you have found don't support only CD playback (Sony and Pioneer), you claim spotty backwards compatibility. Even though, the current Samsung release plays them, the Philips player will, the Sharp player will, and the Panasonic model that was announced today and shipping in September will? Furthermore, all will be and are DVD backward compatible, so I don't see not having CD playback on two players is a big point for you. Besides, with Sony and Pioneer pushing back their release dates, they very well include the playback of CDs as an option when they release.
Two players that don't support CD playback should enable me to proclaim CD support is Spotty right? How is that FUD when you just corroborate the lack of support in two different players?
Any more FUD you need me to shoot down?
I'm not sure you really shot anything down. CD playback is not guaranteed, BD players have twice the DRM and they still cost twice as much at least until Nov