My biggest problem with ethernet being standard is if it becomes part of some annoying DRM scheme where your player has to phone home so you can electronically beg for permission to play your movie.
This was an early fear, but even if some in the industry thought this was a good idea, it's not being implemented now. They'd be sued out of business, as well as getting massive amounts of bad press if they required people to have a computer, internet connection, and a home network to play a simple movie.
I think this is all about to be moot anyway. If Universal goes to BD on Thursday, then HDDVD has lost the format war; it'll only be a matter of time. What would be best for both groups, the studios, and consumers (I think) is if these two groups could cooperate and work on a standard for hybrid players ASAP. Nobody who's not a tech geek gives a rats rump about the relative merits or deficiencies of either format...and then not even most of those.
But there's a lot of "turf" and pride (and liscencing fees) in each format. So HDDVD might be fighting a war of attrition for a few years.
Frankly, the format war is pissing me off. My wife won't even consider buying any HD equiptment until she's sure we're not going to waste a wad of cash. And I won't either. If there was only one format or players were hybrid, I can imagine that we'd be buying the stuff already. As it is, I'm currently jaded on the whole thing right now.
Imagine someone walking into their local Best Buy and seeing a lonely HD-DVD player by Toshiba next to a dozen Blu-Ray players by the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, LG, etc. Do they go with the format supported by Toshiba alone or the one supported by everyone else? If the Blu-Ray group hadn't messed up their product launch so badly they could have ended the formar war before it even got started. Unfortunately that did not play out. As it stands that same person would see a lonely HD-DVD player by Toshiba next to a lonely Blu-Ray player by Samsung and see it as a dead heat and decide to wait it out. Add to this a rather lacking list of release titles on both sides and blue laser shortages for both formats and the result is a long drawn out format war that has only just begun. To be honest I've already lost a lot of interest. I'm still rooting for Blu-Ray to win as it is a better format but they need to take advantage of it. So far they have not.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Didn't mean to stop the thread by mentioning Pr0n? It was just interesting reading that was relevant to the topic.
I was wondering when someone would post this. Porn has always driven meida by in the day when VCR's first came out there were two formates betamax and VHS. Betamax hasd more issues but the quality was better then VHS. Porn decided to adopt VHS and that was the end of Beta.
Blu ray will end up the loser in this war HD-DVD is going to be the standard.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
The point being that the customer gives up on HD completely for the time being. They don't buy one of the Blu-Ray players because of the higher prices and they don't buy the HD-DVD player because it appears to be an orphan product. I do think there will be a significant amout of PS3 sales however. Someone looking for a standalone player and being directed towards the PS3 probably wouldn't be interested but there are probably just as many others who will be actively seeking them out. I don't think PS3 sales are going to be nearly as high as some expect though. I don't think anything that happens this year is going to end the format war.
. . . I don't think PS3 sales are going to be nearly as high as some expect though. . .
I wonder what the PS3 will cost? Soon after the PS2 first appeared, we bought one to use as a DVD player, as well as game console. It was the cheapest way to get both. When DVA player prices came way down, we got one to integrate into our TV and audio equipment better.
I was wondering when someone would post this. Porn has always driven meida by in the day when VCR's first came out there were two formates betamax and VHS. Betamax hasd more issues but the quality was better then VHS. Porn decided to adopt VHS and that was the end of Beta.
Blu ray will end up the loser in this war HD-DVD is going to be the standard.
Wow, either you are clueless, or simply an HD DVD fanboy. The majority of Porn studios are Blu-ray backers, so in essence, given your criteria as to what will decide the winner of this war, just the opposite ought to happen with Blu-ray being the standard.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Actually, I think it will play out more like this...
Consumer sees the plethora of Blu-ray standalone players and the sole Toshiba. He compares prices, notices that the Toshiba is cheaper. Oh, but wait, he sees the PS3 for the same price and finds he can play Blu-ray movies just like the other Blu-ray standalone players. Wow, what a value! I'm getting two things in one package with more content available to me and at the same cost of the solely, lonely Toshiba player. PS3 purchase please!
Consumer goes home, happy as a clam, may venture into buying standalone players once prices drop a bit more.
Wow, either you are clueless, or simply an HD DVD fanboy. The majority of Porn studios are Blu-ray backers, so in essence, given your criteria as to what will decide the winner of this war, just the opposite ought to happen with Blu-ray being the standard.
BTW, this subject has been posted, many times.
True, but that may not be such an issue anymore. Back it the days of VHS and Beta that was the only way to get that kind of content into your home (outside of perhaps film reels, which would be a pain). But these days there is the internet as well as DVD and of course VHS is still lingering around. So that segment of the industry may not be such a deciding factor anymore. Though I'm sure it will still account for something.
I wonder what the PS3 will cost? Soon after the PS2 first appeared, we bought one to use as a DVD player, as well as game console. It was the cheapest way to get both. When DVA player prices came way down, we got one to integrate into our TV and audio equipment better.
The PS3 will cost $499 and $599 for a lower end model and a higher end model. And just like the PS2, the PS3 will be the cheapest way to get both.
True, but that may not be such an issue anymore. Back it the days of VHS and Beta that was the only way to get that kind of content into your home (outside of perhaps film reels, which would be a pain). But these days there is the internet as well as DVD and of course VHS is still lingering around. So that segment of the industry may not be such a deciding factor anymore. Though I'm sure it will still account for something.
In agreement. I just simply stated given extremskater's criteria of what he/she thinks will win the format war, Blu-ray would be the standard. Doesn't mean that it is my criteria.
In my opinion, there are many variables/criteria as to what will win this format war--content, hardware, price, marketing, durability, etc.
The PS3 will cost $499 and $599 for a lower end model and a higher end model. And just like the PS2, the PS3 will be the cheapest way to get both.
It will sell like hotcakes. No doubt in my mind.
I absolutely doubt it. The PS3 will be Sony's worst selling system. I know a lot of PS2 people who won't buy a $600 game system no matter what. They'll wait till the price drops to $300. And most people don't even have HD TV's yet, so blu-ray is hardly a selling factor. Plus not everybody wants to play games either. Alot of people who have the money for these new HDTV's are older and more distinguished and don't really care about games.
I think it's clear which format is superior for movie distribution. HD DVD
Given that we're on page 30-something (?) of this thread, I think this is highly contentious at best.
Like I've said, there are pluses in both camps, and minuses. Some of these difficulties are real (scientific/physical/engineering-related), and some are artificial (legal/economic/"turfy"). I think it'd be best for everyone if the two camps decided to work together, but given how tunnel-visioned both camps have been, I'm not hopeful.
And in all honesty, this stupid turf war is forcing me to realize that nothing's wrong with my 36" Sony Trinitron CRT or my DVD player, and my money is better spent on getting, say, new carpet... At this point, my first HD player of either type might be when it comes standard in a mini or Macbook.
I believe this player will be built on SoC. It'll be interesting to see if it performs as well as the A1. Hopefully North America will get a clone if not this very unit.
Looking forward to seeing more HD-DVD and Blu-Ray announcements from IFA
I think people are forgetting when they talk about Toshiba's price that analysis has shown they are quite likely selling them at a loss. Sony is going able to push Blu-Ray at a loss far longer with the PS3 than Toshiba can push their players. At some point Toshiba will need to get realistic with prices as they don't have an accessory, microtransaction and game market to subsidise the units.
High-Def Digest is reporting that Ridley Scott's director's cut of "Kingdom of Heaven" will be Fox's first dual-layer Blu-ray release, part of their first wave of titles on November 14.
Man, that is the first absolutely drool-worthy, gotta-have-it release I've seen announced so far. For anyone interested in the filmmaking process, the documentaries on the current DVD are an amazing look into how the movie got made, then got UNmade by Fox for theatrical release, then put back together again. And the extended cut of the movie itself is a completely different film.
No, I have not been compensated for this endorsement.
Finally the BDR-103 will add HD DVD support, but no specifics available there either. We're not too surprised, since reps from both camps have dismissed rumors that the licensing agreements precluded such a device
Aside from the occasional news release, this thread has pretty much degenerated into a ?my format is better than yours?, ?no it?s not?, with a few more realistic or semi-Ludite, your choice, ?neither format is going to catch on in the next three to four years, if ever? thrown in.
I?m curious. Has anyone in this thread actually bought one of the HD/BR machines? If you buy DVDs for your personal collection, have you put off buying DVDs in the anticipation of the new formats or are you still purchasing new DVD releases that catch your eye?
Comments
My biggest problem with ethernet being standard is if it becomes part of some annoying DRM scheme where your player has to phone home so you can electronically beg for permission to play your movie.
This was an early fear, but even if some in the industry thought this was a good idea, it's not being implemented now. They'd be sued out of business, as well as getting massive amounts of bad press if they required people to have a computer, internet connection, and a home network to play a simple movie.
I think this is all about to be moot anyway. If Universal goes to BD on Thursday, then HDDVD has lost the format war; it'll only be a matter of time. What would be best for both groups, the studios, and consumers (I think) is if these two groups could cooperate and work on a standard for hybrid players ASAP. Nobody who's not a tech geek gives a rats rump about the relative merits or deficiencies of either format...and then not even most of those.
But there's a lot of "turf" and pride (and liscencing fees) in each format. So HDDVD might be fighting a war of attrition for a few years.
Frankly, the format war is pissing me off. My wife won't even consider buying any HD equiptment until she's sure we're not going to waste a wad of cash. And I won't either. If there was only one format or players were hybrid, I can imagine that we'd be buying the stuff already. As it is, I'm currently jaded on the whole thing right now.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Didn't mean to stop the thread by mentioning Pr0n? It was just interesting reading that was relevant to the topic.
I was wondering when someone would post this. Porn has always driven meida by in the day when VCR's first came out there were two formates betamax and VHS. Betamax hasd more issues but the quality was better then VHS. Porn decided to adopt VHS and that was the end of Beta.
Blu ray will end up the loser in this war HD-DVD is going to be the standard.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
The point being that the customer gives up on HD completely for the time being. They don't buy one of the Blu-Ray players because of the higher prices and they don't buy the HD-DVD player because it appears to be an orphan product. I do think there will be a significant amout of PS3 sales however. Someone looking for a standalone player and being directed towards the PS3 probably wouldn't be interested but there are probably just as many others who will be actively seeking them out. I don't think PS3 sales are going to be nearly as high as some expect though. I don't think anything that happens this year is going to end the format war.
. . . I don't think PS3 sales are going to be nearly as high as some expect though. . .
I wonder what the PS3 will cost? Soon after the PS2 first appeared, we bought one to use as a DVD player, as well as game console. It was the cheapest way to get both. When DVA player prices came way down, we got one to integrate into our TV and audio equipment better.
I was wondering when someone would post this. Porn has always driven meida by in the day when VCR's first came out there were two formates betamax and VHS. Betamax hasd more issues but the quality was better then VHS. Porn decided to adopt VHS and that was the end of Beta.
Blu ray will end up the loser in this war HD-DVD is going to be the standard.
Wow, either you are clueless, or simply an HD DVD fanboy. The majority of Porn studios are Blu-ray backers, so in essence, given your criteria as to what will decide the winner of this war, just the opposite ought to happen with Blu-ray being the standard.
BTW, this subject has been posted, many times.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Actually, I think it will play out more like this...
Consumer sees the plethora of Blu-ray standalone players and the sole Toshiba. He compares prices, notices that the Toshiba is cheaper. Oh, but wait, he sees the PS3 for the same price and finds he can play Blu-ray movies just like the other Blu-ray standalone players. Wow, what a value! I'm getting two things in one package with more content available to me and at the same cost of the solely, lonely Toshiba player. PS3 purchase please!
Consumer goes home, happy as a clam, may venture into buying standalone players once prices drop a bit more.
Wow, either you are clueless, or simply an HD DVD fanboy. The majority of Porn studios are Blu-ray backers, so in essence, given your criteria as to what will decide the winner of this war, just the opposite ought to happen with Blu-ray being the standard.
BTW, this subject has been posted, many times.
True, but that may not be such an issue anymore. Back it the days of VHS and Beta that was the only way to get that kind of content into your home (outside of perhaps film reels, which would be a pain). But these days there is the internet as well as DVD and of course VHS is still lingering around. So that segment of the industry may not be such a deciding factor anymore. Though I'm sure it will still account for something.
I wonder what the PS3 will cost? Soon after the PS2 first appeared, we bought one to use as a DVD player, as well as game console. It was the cheapest way to get both. When DVA player prices came way down, we got one to integrate into our TV and audio equipment better.
The PS3 will cost $499 and $599 for a lower end model and a higher end model. And just like the PS2, the PS3 will be the cheapest way to get both.
It will sell like hotcakes. No doubt in my mind.
True, but that may not be such an issue anymore. Back it the days of VHS and Beta that was the only way to get that kind of content into your home (outside of perhaps film reels, which would be a pain). But these days there is the internet as well as DVD and of course VHS is still lingering around. So that segment of the industry may not be such a deciding factor anymore. Though I'm sure it will still account for something.
In agreement. I just simply stated given extremskater's criteria of what he/she thinks will win the format war, Blu-ray would be the standard. Doesn't mean that it is my criteria.
In my opinion, there are many variables/criteria as to what will win this format war--content, hardware, price, marketing, durability, etc.
The PS3 will cost $499 and $599 for a lower end model and a higher end model. And just like the PS2, the PS3 will be the cheapest way to get both.
It will sell like hotcakes. No doubt in my mind.
I absolutely doubt it. The PS3 will be Sony's worst selling system. I know a lot of PS2 people who won't buy a $600 game system no matter what. They'll wait till the price drops to $300. And most people don't even have HD TV's yet, so blu-ray is hardly a selling factor. Plus not everybody wants to play games either. Alot of people who have the money for these new HDTV's are older and more distinguished and don't really care about games.
Interesting read from Toshiba drive engineer. Some interesting points.
Blu-Ray requires a heavy investment in hardware.
The BDA is strong arming studios to boycott HD DVD
TL 45GB discs may be ratified next June
Explains the difficulty in making multi-layer discs
Toshiba gets patents for AVC and it is thought of as the primary codec
Speaks on the durability of HD DVD and the danger of Blu-Rays hard coat
Combo discs cannot be done with Blu-Ray without DVD Forum approval
I think it's clear which format is superior for movie distribution. HD DVD
I think it's clear which format is superior for movie distribution. HD DVD
Given that we're on page 30-something (?) of this thread, I think this is highly contentious at best.
Like I've said, there are pluses in both camps, and minuses. Some of these difficulties are real (scientific/physical/engineering-related), and some are artificial (legal/economic/"turfy"). I think it'd be best for everyone if the two camps decided to work together, but given how tunnel-visioned both camps have been, I'm not hopeful.
And in all honesty, this stupid turf war is forcing me to realize that nothing's wrong with my 36" Sony Trinitron CRT or my DVD player, and my money is better spent on getting, say, new carpet... At this point, my first HD player of either type might be when it comes standard in a mini or Macbook.
I believe this player will be built on SoC. It'll be interesting to see if it performs as well as the A1. Hopefully North America will get a clone if not this very unit.
Looking forward to seeing more HD-DVD and Blu-Ray announcements from IFA
Man, that is the first absolutely drool-worthy, gotta-have-it release I've seen announced so far. For anyone interested in the filmmaking process, the documentaries on the current DVD are an amazing look into how the movie got made, then got UNmade by Fox for theatrical release, then put back together again. And the extended cut of the movie itself is a completely different film.
No, I have not been compensated for this endorsement.
What is HDMV? Is it VC-1?
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releas...-releases.html
What is HDMV? Is it VC-1?
HDVM is the basic subset of graphics for menus and subtitles. The more intense graphics will be done in BD-Java.
http://www.areadvd.de/news/2006/IFA_...D-DVD_02.shtml
Here are the pics of the new HD DVD Euro players. The HD-XE1 supports 1080p and HDMI 1.3.
The E1
The XE1
Much better looking hardware IMO.
In strange news today Pioneer apparently is thinking about making a Combo drive in the future.
http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/09/01/pio...y-combo-drive/
Finally the BDR-103 will add HD DVD support, but no specifics available there either. We're not too surprised, since reps from both camps have dismissed rumors that the licensing agreements precluded such a device
I?m curious. Has anyone in this thread actually bought one of the HD/BR machines? If you buy DVDs for your personal collection, have you put off buying DVDs in the anticipation of the new formats or are you still purchasing new DVD releases that catch your eye?