SDW2001, you've been a member here and around the Apple world long enough to know better than to lash out like this when you buy a machine right before a MacWorld and later discover that MacWorld saw your hardware dethroned.
Well, what about the people who aren't members here? There are plenty of Apple-friendly folks out there who aren't exactly plebs or Luddite morons, but who still don't know when Macworld is or even that it exists.
In fact, I'd say that's the majority of Apple's customer base, bizarre and wondrous as that may seem to folks around these parts.
They'll all still be reasonably peeved the next time they click on to Apple's site or wander into their local reseller to discover that their brand new cutting edge Mac has been soundly trounced.
I think we have to remember that this is really an unprecedented move by Apple. I've been a member here for years (and no, I don't post much), I'm not an idiot, and I still made a bad call on my October purchase. To say that there was "more than enough information" and it was plain "common sense" to wait till Macworld is simply untrue.
According to the general tone of this thread, it seems like the only people who have common sense are the people:
- who didn't buy an October-revved iMac as soon as it came out;
- who actually frequent these boards;
- who actually saw the November rumour (which did sound pretty unsubstantiated and dodgy even to veteran Macspotters);
- and who believed it enough in the face of all previous marketing and release decisions by Apple to hold off on their purchases, even with Steve touting the October-revved iMac as The Coolest Desktop Computer Ever Until June 2006 (which is sure as hell what it sounded like).
Be clear, we're not actually sore that the Intel models were released today. In fact, I think it's great. Who'd seriously want DELAYED releases of newer tech just so they can feel they got their money's worth out of what they did buy? No, we're getting great computers well ahead of schedule, and that's as it should be.
What us "morons" feel burnt by is that what were obviously (in retrospect) intended to be gap-filler models were released very soon BEFORE today when obviously, the Intels were already well in the pipe. That's not Moore's Law. That's an unusual and not-so-nice move by Apple, market forces or no.
I'm with Progmac. Apple will always be my favourite company. But like Bill said just after the Bride administered the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique on him, sometimes, it can be a real ****.
But enough with the bitching. I'm off to enjoy what I do have
Wow, if you think the speed of updates are bad now, wait until you've tasted a couple years of intel updates. By this time next year, the current Yonah chips will be bargain bin items.
I don't know how anyone could ever buy a Mac in December. That's just silly.
What us "morons" feel burnt by is that what were obviously (in retrospect) intended to be gap-filler models were released very soon BEFORE today when obviously, the Intels were already well in the pipe. That's not Moore's Law. That's an unusual and not-so-nice move by Apple, market forces or no.
I feel for you, but Apple didn't hide anything from you. Last June they stated that all machines would be transitioning to Intel before the end of 2007. Now, they've sped up the process, but they are true to their word.
I understand it sucks to realize a machine you just bought isn't the latest and greatest; however, when you bought it, you chose it because it did what you needed it to do, correct? Nothing has changed. It still does what you bought it to do. You have a great machine, enjoy it.
If you bought a car in July, then in Sept, the new year's model came out at the same price with 50% more hp/torque with lower gas consumption, you shouldn't believe that the car company screwed you. You still have a working (presumably nice) new car.
Just remember this: You still have a machine that before yesterday was being hailed as one of the great desktop computers out there. The G5 is still a solid performing chip, front row is pretty cool, etc.
NEVER buy anything from Apple until after MWSF/MWNY/WWDC...
ALWAYS check the rumor sites before thinking about a purchase, or find that one uber-geek Mac fanatic (that would be me for my friends down here in FL)and ask him/her questions... They will give you WAY more info than you need, and hopefully prevent you from buying in before changes...
The problem with that is that I DID expect a powerbook to be intro'd. I was selling my G4 on ebay before that news hit the wires. So, I got over $1400 instead of probably that $900-1000 I would have gotten. If I thought that this was going to happen, I would have transfered my users folder to an external drive, then waited until after Macworld to replace the PB.
Wow, if you think the speed of updates are bad now, wait until you've tasted a couple years of intel updates. By this time next year, the current Yonah chips will be bargain bin items.
I don't know how anyone could ever buy a Mac in December. That's just silly.
That's a dumb rule. I bought my AL book in december and it was fine.
To be clear, once again:
I am not upset they upgraded. I am upset because it is a dramatic, next generation upgrade. There was no indication it was coming for anyone that frequents the majority of the rumor sites. I know several people who purchased thinking the same thing.
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
How many people are being condescending jackasses? Let me count. 1....
As opposed to those who are being gripers, the ratio seems fairly matched.
Quote:
Tell me who else predicted this. I follow the major rumor sites. The pulse of the mac faithful did not expect this.
It doesn't matter that AI predicted it. It doesn't even matter that no-one else predicted it. While, in the past, you may have been able to rely on a glacial upgrade pattern it was still a mistake to purchase a machine 2.5 weeks before a keynote speech.
I'm curious. How long do you have to own a machine before you'll stop complaining that it's been upgraded? You've been given the ability to upgrade to the new iMac for approximately $100 which is something that those who purchased from most retailers cannot do. ... yet you still moan.
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
I grant you that. There really should be an upgrade media price ($9.99 or so) for people who recently got iLife05. Try calling the Apple store, they may have that, it just isn't listed (as far as I could see) on the website. It would be ridiculous to charge you $79 for a product upgrade that you bought 3 weeks ago...
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
Aaargh.
Just return the old machine now! When you get the new one, please don't complain when it's upgraded to a Core Duo 2.0 in 3 months.
iLife '07 will be out in January 2007, by the way.
The price of iMac G5 on Apple's website has not changed, last I checked. I just bought one on the thirtieth, and got it in the mail YESTERDAY DURING THE KEYNOTE.
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
The real kicker, though, is that I bought it to run a few apps that aren't supported any more, will never be ported to Intel, and aren't even likely to run under Rosetta. So I'm quite happy that I got one of the last iMacs. There's no point in getting a Powermac, since the major app in question (Universe Modeler 4.0) is single threaded.
So, my advice to you is to chill out, since Intel software support is crap at the moment, and likely will continue to be crap for the next 18 months.
we were thinking of returning the iMac G5 (without the remote etc etc) when we just got it and the new model came out with frontrow and all.... but it's a huge hassle if you live on an island like Curacao in the Caribbean (right of Aruba).....
Thing is though, we already were without an iMac for a full year, thanks to the *beep* insurance company and the *beep* moving company. So we wanted one and now! We got what we wanted.... the rest.... shit happens and yes, it's ridiculous it is going this fast paced.....
did i say that shit happens?
guess what though.. either way, your the owner of a Mac
The price of iMac G5 on Apple's website has not changed, last I checked. I just bought one on the thirtieth, and got it in the mail YESTERDAY DURING THE KEYNOTE.
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
The real kicker, though, is that I bought it to run a few apps that aren't supported any more, will never be ported to Intel, and aren't even likely to run under Rosetta. So I'm quite happy that I got one of the last iMacs. There's no point in getting a Powermac, since the major app in question (Universe Modeler 4.0) is single threaded.
So, my advice to you is to chill out, since Intel software support is crap at the moment, and likely will continue to be crap for the next 18 months.
Quoted for repetitiveness purposes.
If you decide to exchange it for the Intel, SDW, remember that we really don't know much about them yet. Hopefully Rosetta will work great, and lots of universal binaries will be available soon. But, conceivably, you could get it and, as the first Intel Mac, it could have many problems. How will you feel then?
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
While you are right about non-multi-threaded, Altivec and non-native Intel applications, the performance gains are not at all bullshit. We all know very well how much OS X loves multi-processor machines and how well it distributes concurrent processes on the processors it sees in the system. A dual-core machine will be substantially more responsive under load than a single core one. After all, that's what dual CPU or core Power Macs were about for so many years. Now we have it in consumer machines.
Just bought a 20" iMac on December 20th. I never dreamed they would update this quickly. Now they have a machine with not just a speed bump, but a 2-3X performance gain, better graphics, etc...all for the same price.
I bought from Amazon. What are my options? I really want to return it. It's bullshit. I think the ebay value would be poor. I'd lose hundreds. Must...call...Amazon. DAMMIT!!!!!!!!
SDW
LMAO!
Sounds like you've got unit size issues. If the iMac was good enough before, then how do Intel iMacs make it less good now? It's still the same damn thing sitting on your desk, right?
That latest iMac G5 is a totally bitchin' computer! You are better off with it, so when you finally buy an Intel Mac the transition pains will be over. No waiting for your favorite application to ship an Intel version. Apple will have optimized OS X on Intel further so the Intel Macs will go freakishly fast.
But, if this doesn't convince you and you need to unload that piece of junk on your desk, you can just send it to me. I have a specialized iMac G5 disposal unit and can properly dispose of it.
While you are right about non-multi-threaded, Altivec and non-native Intel applications, the performance gains are not at all bullshit.
Apple has a history of marketing bullshit numbers, as evidenced by the tests at Barefeats.com and many other venues. I wouldn't be surprised if these numbers are also extremely massaged given the benchmark data I've seen for the PPC970 and the Yonah.
But all that's an "all else equal" comparison. The trouble, is, not much is equal. Rosetta is probably >10x slow-down, so go figure. The loss of Altivec is also going to hurt more than Apple will ever admit. There's a reason why my 3 year old Powerbook G4 1GHz encodes AAC faster than the 3.2GHz P4 I have at work.
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
Unless you are doing single precision, Altivec is a lead weight (plus, who wants to spend time writing special code for a limited production processor? I prefer to do science not shoehorn working code into the altivec model). Both Opteron and latest Intel chips are just as fast the G5 for our double-precision fortran models. When buying a hundred cores, I am going to go with commodity and cost (which is now where the G5 fails--it sure used to be king though). Intel's FPU is way better than it was just 2 years ago. Yonah (I have not used one first-hand) is supposedly even better, and I am confident will match the G5 with ease.
If you decide to exchange it for the Intel, SDW, remember that we really don't know much about them yet. Hopefully Rosetta will work great, and lots of universal binaries will be available soon. But, conceivably, you could get it and, as the first Intel Mac, it could have many problems. How will you feel then?
I grant you that. It is the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger on a new one right now.
Comments
Originally posted by Nautical
SDW2001, you've been a member here and around the Apple world long enough to know better than to lash out like this when you buy a machine right before a MacWorld and later discover that MacWorld saw your hardware dethroned.
Well, what about the people who aren't members here? There are plenty of Apple-friendly folks out there who aren't exactly plebs or Luddite morons, but who still don't know when Macworld is or even that it exists.
In fact, I'd say that's the majority of Apple's customer base, bizarre and wondrous as that may seem to folks around these parts.
They'll all still be reasonably peeved the next time they click on to Apple's site or wander into their local reseller to discover that their brand new cutting edge Mac has been soundly trounced.
I think we have to remember that this is really an unprecedented move by Apple. I've been a member here for years (and no, I don't post much), I'm not an idiot, and I still made a bad call on my October purchase. To say that there was "more than enough information" and it was plain "common sense" to wait till Macworld is simply untrue.
According to the general tone of this thread, it seems like the only people who have common sense are the people:
- who didn't buy an October-revved iMac as soon as it came out;
- who actually frequent these boards;
- who actually saw the November rumour (which did sound pretty unsubstantiated and dodgy even to veteran Macspotters);
- and who believed it enough in the face of all previous marketing and release decisions by Apple to hold off on their purchases, even with Steve touting the October-revved iMac as The Coolest Desktop Computer Ever Until June 2006 (which is sure as hell what it sounded like).
Be clear, we're not actually sore that the Intel models were released today. In fact, I think it's great. Who'd seriously want DELAYED releases of newer tech just so they can feel they got their money's worth out of what they did buy? No, we're getting great computers well ahead of schedule, and that's as it should be.
What us "morons" feel burnt by is that what were obviously (in retrospect) intended to be gap-filler models were released very soon BEFORE today when obviously, the Intels were already well in the pipe. That's not Moore's Law. That's an unusual and not-so-nice move by Apple, market forces or no.
I'm with Progmac. Apple will always be my favourite company. But like Bill said just after the Bride administered the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique on him, sometimes, it can be a real ****.
But enough with the bitching. I'm off to enjoy what I do have
I don't know how anyone could ever buy a Mac in December. That's just silly.
Originally posted by Shalmaneser
What us "morons" feel burnt by is that what were obviously (in retrospect) intended to be gap-filler models were released very soon BEFORE today when obviously, the Intels were already well in the pipe. That's not Moore's Law. That's an unusual and not-so-nice move by Apple, market forces or no.
I feel for you, but Apple didn't hide anything from you. Last June they stated that all machines would be transitioning to Intel before the end of 2007. Now, they've sped up the process, but they are true to their word.
I understand it sucks to realize a machine you just bought isn't the latest and greatest; however, when you bought it, you chose it because it did what you needed it to do, correct? Nothing has changed. It still does what you bought it to do. You have a great machine, enjoy it.
If you bought a car in July, then in Sept, the new year's model came out at the same price with 50% more hp/torque with lower gas consumption, you shouldn't believe that the car company screwed you. You still have a working (presumably nice) new car.
Just remember this: You still have a machine that before yesterday was being hailed as one of the great desktop computers out there. The G5 is still a solid performing chip, front row is pretty cool, etc.
edit: typo
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
How many people pointed this article? Five?
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1368
How many people are being condescending jackasses? Let me count. 1....
Tell me who else predicted this. I follow the major rumor sites. The pulse of the mac faithful did not expect this.
Originally posted by MacRonin
Plain and simple common sense here...
NEVER buy anything from Apple until after MWSF/MWNY/WWDC...
ALWAYS check the rumor sites before thinking about a purchase, or find that one uber-geek Mac fanatic (that would be me for my friends down here in FL)and ask him/her questions... They will give you WAY more info than you need, and hopefully prevent you from buying in before changes...
The problem with that is that I DID expect a powerbook to be intro'd. I was selling my G4 on ebay before that news hit the wires. So, I got over $1400 instead of probably that $900-1000 I would have gotten. If I thought that this was going to happen, I would have transfered my users folder to an external drive, then waited until after Macworld to replace the PB.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Wow, if you think the speed of updates are bad now, wait until you've tasted a couple years of intel updates. By this time next year, the current Yonah chips will be bargain bin items.
I don't know how anyone could ever buy a Mac in December. That's just silly.
That's a dumb rule. I bought my AL book in december and it was fine.
To be clear, once again:
I am not upset they upgraded. I am upset because it is a dramatic, next generation upgrade. There was no indication it was coming for anyone that frequents the majority of the rumor sites. I know several people who purchased thinking the same thing.
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
Originally posted by SDW2001
How many people are being condescending jackasses? Let me count. 1....
As opposed to those who are being gripers, the ratio seems fairly matched.
Tell me who else predicted this. I follow the major rumor sites. The pulse of the mac faithful did not expect this.
It doesn't matter that AI predicted it. It doesn't even matter that no-one else predicted it. While, in the past, you may have been able to rely on a glacial upgrade pattern it was still a mistake to purchase a machine 2.5 weeks before a keynote speech.
I'm curious. How long do you have to own a machine before you'll stop complaining that it's been upgraded? You've been given the ability to upgrade to the new iMac for approximately $100 which is something that those who purchased from most retailers cannot do. ... yet you still moan.
Originally posted by SDW2001
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
I grant you that. There really should be an upgrade media price ($9.99 or so) for people who recently got iLife05. Try calling the Apple store, they may have that, it just isn't listed (as far as I could see) on the website. It would be ridiculous to charge you $79 for a product upgrade that you bought 3 weeks ago...
Originally posted by SDW2001
BTW, I also have oudated software on a three week old computer. Apple should provide iLife 06 to anyone who purchcased an iMac within 30 days. It's just not right.
Aaargh.
Just return the old machine now! When you get the new one, please don't complain when it's upgraded to a Core Duo 2.0 in 3 months.
iLife '07 will be out in January 2007, by the way.
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
The real kicker, though, is that I bought it to run a few apps that aren't supported any more, will never be ported to Intel, and aren't even likely to run under Rosetta. So I'm quite happy that I got one of the last iMacs. There's no point in getting a Powermac, since the major app in question (Universe Modeler 4.0) is single threaded.
So, my advice to you is to chill out, since Intel software support is crap at the moment, and likely will continue to be crap for the next 18 months.
Thing is though, we already were without an iMac for a full year, thanks to the *beep* insurance company and the *beep* moving company. So we wanted one and now! We got what we wanted.... the rest.... shit happens and yes, it's ridiculous it is going this fast paced.....
did i say that shit happens?
guess what though.. either way, your the owner of a Mac
Originally posted by Splinemodel
The price of iMac G5 on Apple's website has not changed, last I checked. I just bought one on the thirtieth, and got it in the mail YESTERDAY DURING THE KEYNOTE.
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
The real kicker, though, is that I bought it to run a few apps that aren't supported any more, will never be ported to Intel, and aren't even likely to run under Rosetta. So I'm quite happy that I got one of the last iMacs. There's no point in getting a Powermac, since the major app in question (Universe Modeler 4.0) is single threaded.
So, my advice to you is to chill out, since Intel software support is crap at the moment, and likely will continue to be crap for the next 18 months.
Quoted for repetitiveness purposes.
If you decide to exchange it for the Intel, SDW, remember that we really don't know much about them yet. Hopefully Rosetta will work great, and lots of universal binaries will be available soon. But, conceivably, you could get it and, as the first Intel Mac, it could have many problems. How will you feel then?
Originally posted by Splinemodel
But I WANTED the G5. the 2x to 3x gain is total bullshit, and I can guarantee you the real world numbers are different, especially for single core apps, apps that use Altivec, or any app that's not compiled for Intel.
While you are right about non-multi-threaded, Altivec and non-native Intel applications, the performance gains are not at all bullshit. We all know very well how much OS X loves multi-processor machines and how well it distributes concurrent processes on the processors it sees in the system. A dual-core machine will be substantially more responsive under load than a single core one. After all, that's what dual CPU or core Power Macs were about for so many years. Now we have it in consumer machines.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Just bought a 20" iMac on December 20th. I never dreamed they would update this quickly. Now they have a machine with not just a speed bump, but a 2-3X performance gain, better graphics, etc...all for the same price.
I bought from Amazon. What are my options? I really want to return it. It's bullshit. I think the ebay value would be poor. I'd lose hundreds. Must...call...Amazon. DAMMIT!!!!!!!!
SDW
LMAO!
Sounds like you've got unit size issues. If the iMac was good enough before, then how do Intel iMacs make it less good now? It's still the same damn thing sitting on your desk, right?
That latest iMac G5 is a totally bitchin' computer! You are better off with it, so when you finally buy an Intel Mac the transition pains will be over. No waiting for your favorite application to ship an Intel version. Apple will have optimized OS X on Intel further so the Intel Macs will go freakishly fast.
But, if this doesn't convince you and you need to unload that piece of junk on your desk, you can just send it to me. I have a specialized iMac G5 disposal unit and can properly dispose of it.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Tell me who else predicted this. I follow the major rumor sites. The pulse of the mac faithful did not expect this.
Appleinsider is not a major rumor site? Look at it this way, you got the last and the best iMac G5.
Originally posted by PB
While you are right about non-multi-threaded, Altivec and non-native Intel applications, the performance gains are not at all bullshit.
Apple has a history of marketing bullshit numbers, as evidenced by the tests at Barefeats.com and many other venues. I wouldn't be surprised if these numbers are also extremely massaged given the benchmark data I've seen for the PPC970 and the Yonah.
But all that's an "all else equal" comparison. The trouble, is, not much is equal. Rosetta is probably >10x slow-down, so go figure. The loss of Altivec is also going to hurt more than Apple will ever admit. There's a reason why my 3 year old Powerbook G4 1GHz encodes AAC faster than the 3.2GHz P4 I have at work.
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
Unless you are doing single precision, Altivec is a lead weight (plus, who wants to spend time writing special code for a limited production processor? I prefer to do science not shoehorn working code into the altivec model). Both Opteron and latest Intel chips are just as fast the G5 for our double-precision fortran models. When buying a hundred cores, I am going to go with commodity and cost (which is now where the G5 fails--it sure used to be king though). Intel's FPU is way better than it was just 2 years ago. Yonah (I have not used one first-hand) is supposedly even better, and I am confident will match the G5 with ease.
Originally posted by BRussell
Quoted for repetitiveness purposes.
If you decide to exchange it for the Intel, SDW, remember that we really don't know much about them yet. Hopefully Rosetta will work great, and lots of universal binaries will be available soon. But, conceivably, you could get it and, as the first Intel Mac, it could have many problems. How will you feel then?
I grant you that. It is the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger on a new one right now.