First of all, as a recent iMac CD buyer, I am very excited about this news. I love to have options, and my experience w/VPC has been spotty at best. Over the past few months, I have talked to a few people who said that they would buy a Mac if the dual boot rumors came true. I'm looking forward to having the ability, so that I can take advantage of PC-only sw that I've been eyeing.
But...I would rather have virtualization.
From a tech stand-point...is this a feasible expectation? I know NOTHING about virtualization, but it seems like it would drag down your system very quickly. Two questions about virtualization: 1) does the inactive OS go to 'sleep' when not active? 2) Do both OS have direct access to the CPU, etc?
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.
OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.
Sigh.
NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files and put up with minor file compatibility niggles transferring his drawings to Taiwan where the drawings are turned into welded bits of metal and CNC machining. He's always had a Mac so Apple hasn't gained anything.
Taiwan needed the files in AutoCAD format. In the past though, the Mac tools he's been using have had minor issues which can usually be worked around if you know them and can explain them to the Taiwanese builders - not always easy. Occasionally he'd come across a new problem though. Now he doesn't have the niggles and he knows the files are 100% compatible.
Heck, never mind AutoCAD, I get enough issues from PC word users sending me incompatible files. "No, I don't have Blippo-Comic-New-Roman-Oblique font installed on my Mac'...
Plus, when I moved to the Mac I had to buy a LOT of Mac software I needed. If I was a Windows switcher today with an investment in Windows software, I wouldn't have to.
This would defeat switching in the first place.
Quote:
NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files
So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.
This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.
I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.
This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
Am I getting through yet...?
Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.
If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
In the current situation. You would buy a Macintosh, load Windows, to use your old Windows software. Nothing has really changed but the hardware.
Quote:
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.
I know people who have never owned Macs buy one specifically to use Final Cut Pro. FCP doesn't run on Windows and they don't want to use Premiere.
Viruses? OS9? What the heck are you talking about??
I think he means the Netscape vulnerability that was discovered quite some time now. There was a possible exploit if you were running Netscape (I don't remember which version) under Classic. This could affect the Mac OS X installation. Not that it matters now, just because you asked.
Virus's in Windows, sure. But that won't affect the Mac OS or partitions.
Oh yes, they can do damage if you catch them while you run Windows. From Apple's own page:
Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it?ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.
Maybe, Maybe not. Windows XP SP2 is a bit better than sp1... needless to say I haven't got 1 virus on XP SP2 yet... but i'm not an idiot. If i think I'm browsing possible virus pages I use my mac. So that could be part of it. SP1 I always go viruses even with Sygate Firewall AND NAV 2004. *shrugs*... It will happen but I think it will take a bit. Who knows... maybe it already has happened and the user don't know it yet.
i'm posting this from inside XP on my mac. It's hella fast. Kinda shows how badly the finder need reworked.Of course XP is annoying as hell... but now I can use it at the office for all those tasks it needs.
At WWDC Apple will preview their partnership with Xen, and the new hardware abstraction layer. They will also show running OS, inside another window, or similar virtual desktops (fast user switching)
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?
is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?
What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.
Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...
No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.
Obviously you don't get it.
He has a Mac already. Before Bootcamp/Parallels he'd have bought say VectorWorks to do CAD and produce AutoCAD format files. VectorWorks is a great application and arguably better than AutoCAD. However, it's file output isn't perfectly compatible. Now he buys AutoCAD as it's 100% compatible with AutoCAD. Mac developers 0, Windows 1.
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?
is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?
If it's NTFS formatted it's readable from OSX but not writable. If it's FAT32, both ways.
From Windows you need to buy a copy of MacDrive to read Mac formatted disks.
Quote:
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.
Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...
You'd maybe be better off with Parallels otherwise you'll be rebootign back and forth. http://www.parallels.com/
It was different in that Apple was near death. That was primarily the reason Avid was leaving the platform.
This is an example of where the user did not just follow the software. This is an example where people said we don't want to use Windows we want to use Mac OS. In-spite of the fact that Avid was trying to move everyone over to Windows.
Right it would be a totally different thing if Avid customers chose to use Windows systems.
As in today I don't see too many people choosing to buy Macs, buy the Windows operating system to run on their Mac, to then buy Windows software. When they could have bought a Windows computer in the first place. They bought the Mac because they want to use Mac OS X.
I wouldn't say that Apple was near death. It still had 8% marketshare, and a good amount of money in the bank. After Jobs took over, that kept falling. It's only been recently that it started to rise again.
Back then, buying windows to run at greatly reduced rates, was not a serious option for most software. I used Softwindows for years. Then I also bought VPC. But, truth be told, I spent most of my time on the platform updating the OS, and downloading security fixes. Not a very worthwhile activity, I can tell you!
But, this is different. Mossbergs article about Boot Camp today, in the WSJ, was very encouraging, as have been the others we've been seeing. One of the first things I'll be doing when I get my new "PowerMac" will be to install Windows, after, of course, I let Apple's software bring all my stuff over from my current machines.
I'm fortunate in that I can afford to play with these things, even though I may not need them. I only use a few things from Windows, but it is fun when I do it.
Startling my friends with the windows startup screen was always great fun too. Now though, they are very interested in this. Where before, VPC was totally inadequate to make them move over, this might do it. They've been asking me if this was possible ever since Apple said that they were switching back in June.
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.
OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.
I've done a lot of work with CAD myself, and architectural renderings.
My favorite program was Bentley CAD. Where is that now?
Versa CAD for the Mac competes very well in Europe with Auto CAD, but not here, though late last year they announced that they were reorganizing their N American division, so as to make a bigger push into our market. I truly wish them well. I have had the pleasure of meeting I M Pei's son a number of times. His preferred personal computer is a Mac. But the business can't use them here. Too bad. And, as much as I like VectorWorks, it's not really a competing product, on the high end.
[B]I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
Yes!
Quote:
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
Am I getting through yet...?
Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.
Comments
But...I would rather have virtualization.
From a tech stand-point...is this a feasible expectation? I know NOTHING about virtualization, but it seems like it would drag down your system very quickly. Two questions about virtualization: 1) does the inactive OS go to 'sleep' when not active? 2) Do both OS have direct access to the CPU, etc?
Originally posted by Kickaha
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.
OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.
Sigh.
NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files and put up with minor file compatibility niggles transferring his drawings to Taiwan where the drawings are turned into welded bits of metal and CNC machining. He's always had a Mac so Apple hasn't gained anything.
Taiwan needed the files in AutoCAD format. In the past though, the Mac tools he's been using have had minor issues which can usually be worked around if you know them and can explain them to the Taiwanese builders - not always easy. Occasionally he'd come across a new problem though. Now he doesn't have the niggles and he knows the files are 100% compatible.
Heck, never mind AutoCAD, I get enough issues from PC word users sending me incompatible files. "No, I don't have Blippo-Comic-New-Roman-Oblique font installed on my Mac'...
Plus, when I moved to the Mac I had to buy a LOT of Mac software I needed. If I was a Windows switcher today with an investment in Windows software, I wouldn't have to.
This would defeat switching in the first place.
NO. He would have used one of the Mac alternatives and output AutoCAD format files
So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.
This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.
Originally posted by TenoBell
This would defeat switching in the first place.
I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
Originally posted by TenoBell
So this friend sounds like someone who wants to primarily use OS X but needs to use AutoCAD. Which is the purpose of Boot Camp, allows this friend own a Mac use OS X while not giving up AutoCAD.
This is different from the majority of Mac users primarily using Windows.
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
Am I getting through yet...?
Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.
If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
In the current situation. You would buy a Macintosh, load Windows, to use your old Windows software. Nothing has really changed but the hardware.
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.
I know people who have never owned Macs buy one specifically to use Final Cut Pro. FCP doesn't run on Windows and they don't want to use Premiere.
perfectly sense considering a Mac can likely have a
VIRUS .
Originally posted by Kickaha
Viruses? OS9? What the heck are you talking about??
I think he means the Netscape vulnerability that was discovered quite some time now. There was a possible exploit if you were running Netscape (I don't remember which version) under Classic. This could affect the Mac OS X installation. Not that it matters now, just because you asked.
Originally posted by melgross
Virus's in Windows, sure. But that won't affect the Mac OS or partitions.
Oh yes, they can do damage if you catch them while you run Windows. From Apple's own page:
Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it?ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.
Would be ironic that the only way to get a real widespread mac virus is by having windows installed. LOL @ THAT
Originally posted by emig647
Would be ironic that the only way to get a real widespread mac virus is by having windows installed. LOL @ THAT
Yes. Very funny indeed.
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Yes. Very funny indeed.
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.
Originally posted by PB
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.
Maybe, Maybe not. Windows XP SP2 is a bit better than sp1... needless to say I haven't got 1 virus on XP SP2 yet... but i'm not an idiot. If i think I'm browsing possible virus pages I use my mac. So that could be part of it. SP1 I always go viruses even with Sygate Firewall AND NAV 2004. *shrugs*... It will happen but I think it will take a bit. Who knows... maybe it already has happened and the user don't know it yet.
At WWDC Apple will preview their partnership with Xen, and the new hardware abstraction layer. They will also show running OS, inside another window, or similar virtual desktops (fast user switching)
is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?
What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.
Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...
Originally posted by TenoBell
No I don't get it. No Mac developers make AutoCAD. If he needed AutoCAD he needs Windows to run it.
Obviously you don't get it.
He has a Mac already. Before Bootcamp/Parallels he'd have bought say VectorWorks to do CAD and produce AutoCAD format files. VectorWorks is a great application and arguably better than AutoCAD. However, it's file output isn't perfectly compatible. Now he buys AutoCAD as it's 100% compatible with AutoCAD. Mac developers 0, Windows 1.
Now multiply across multiple product categories.
Originally posted by PB
But it will happen. It is a matter of days, weeks at most.
Minutes usually.
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
if im not mistaken, XP and OSX use different file systems?
is the XP partition accesable from within OSX and vice versa?
If it's NTFS formatted it's readable from OSX but not writable. If it's FAT32, both ways.
From Windows you need to buy a copy of MacDrive to read Mac formatted disks.
Originally posted by zpapasmurf
What im hoping is to use the windows partition for photoshop only until CS3 comes out, but i need to have access to my picture from within both operating systems.
Sorry if this question has already been asked/answered...
You'd maybe be better off with Parallels otherwise you'll be rebootign back and forth. http://www.parallels.com/
Originally posted by TenoBell
It was different in that Apple was near death. That was primarily the reason Avid was leaving the platform.
This is an example of where the user did not just follow the software. This is an example where people said we don't want to use Windows we want to use Mac OS. In-spite of the fact that Avid was trying to move everyone over to Windows.
Right it would be a totally different thing if Avid customers chose to use Windows systems.
As in today I don't see too many people choosing to buy Macs, buy the Windows operating system to run on their Mac, to then buy Windows software. When they could have bought a Windows computer in the first place. They bought the Mac because they want to use Mac OS X.
I wouldn't say that Apple was near death. It still had 8% marketshare, and a good amount of money in the bank. After Jobs took over, that kept falling. It's only been recently that it started to rise again.
Back then, buying windows to run at greatly reduced rates, was not a serious option for most software. I used Softwindows for years. Then I also bought VPC. But, truth be told, I spent most of my time on the platform updating the OS, and downloading security fixes. Not a very worthwhile activity, I can tell you!
But, this is different. Mossbergs article about Boot Camp today, in the WSJ, was very encouraging, as have been the others we've been seeing. One of the first things I'll be doing when I get my new "PowerMac" will be to install Windows, after, of course, I let Apple's software bring all my stuff over from my current machines.
I'm fortunate in that I can afford to play with these things, even though I may not need them. I only use a few things from Windows, but it is fun when I do it.
Startling my friends with the windows startup screen was always great fun too. Now though, they are very interested in this. Where before, VPC was totally inadequate to make them move over, this might do it. They've been asking me if this was possible ever since Apple said that they were switching back in June.
Originally posted by Kickaha
No, if he *HAS* to use AutoCAD, then no Mac developer was going to meet his needs in the first place, were they? No sale lost.
OTOH, if he *WANTED* to use a Mac, but *HAD* to use AutoCAD... it might just be that Apple just gained a sale.
I've done a lot of work with CAD myself, and architectural renderings.
My favorite program was Bentley CAD. Where is that now?
Versa CAD for the Mac competes very well in Europe with Auto CAD, but not here, though late last year they announced that they were reorganizing their N American division, so as to make a bigger push into our market. I truly wish them well. I have had the pleasure of meeting I M Pei's son a number of times. His preferred personal computer is a Mac. But the business can't use them here. Too bad. And, as much as I like VectorWorks, it's not really a competing product, on the high end.
EDIT for spelling. sigh!
Originally posted by aegisdesign
[B]I don't follow. I switched from BeOS so I was down for buying new software anyway. If I was coming from Windows though, being able to carry over a load of Windows software means I wouldn't have to buy Mac software and I could use Windows software until I got around to buying new software. ie. Mac developers lost a sale till later.
Yes!
So in essence, as I said, it's great for him, bad for the Mac developers as they've lost a sale.
Am I getting through yet...?
Being able to run Windows apps is good for users in the short term, bad for Mac developers up against the big Windows only apps. Many developers chose the relative sanctuary of developing on the Mac to avoid having to compete with Microsoft or AutoDesk or whatever huge software corp.
And Yes!