Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.
I mean come'on folks. WWDC is a ways away Apple's STILL a company that has earnings to make. You don't hold off announcing a product that's ready to ship for half a quarter because you want to try and make an impact at a tradeshow for Developers nonetheless.
Apple will ship Powermac replacements in June or early July. They can save Xserve and Xserve RAID updates for WWDC.
I've already gone through a long version of this argument with someone here. You're right. It would be foolish for Apple to wait for an event when they can have a machine out and selling as soon as possible.
I doubt they'll get that much extra off, the article talked about the price cascade for buying in mass already. 2x3ghz is a possibility, but might look weird if you have 3 models with a .66 Ghz jump in there somewhere, because the lowend almost has to 2.0ghz if it sells for $2000. At $850/700/470/330 for 3.0/2.66/2.33/2.0, the 3.0 ghz line seems like a stretch if Apple wants a big margin.
While I'll admit I didn't read the part in the article where it talked about bulk pricing... Bulk prices are usually pretty substantial... I'd be amazed if it wasn't.
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5. Mac Pros will come in June or July.
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.
All the time stuff aside on release dates.
How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.
You bet June? Let's see. The first set of processors (Woodcrest) ship out on the 19th of June - that is what intel has on hand to every manufacturer they supply. That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though. Conroe is next at about the same time in July. Merom is again at about the same time in August.
So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.
How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.
What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?
...That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though...
So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.
If Apple goes all Woodcrest (which they pretty much have to, they can't sell a 2.67 GHz Conroe for $2000 when Dell has that for $1200-$1400), then they can intro the whole line all at once in June.
Additionally, Apple may have a piece of the June 25th order (June 19 is apparently just the launch day, the chips ship June 25). If they have the Mac Pros all ready except the chips, they could get the chips, stick them in, image the drives, and be ready pretty darn quick. Not to mention, Apple could announce them, and say "Shipping early July", then trickle them out slowly until the second wave of chips hits.
Lenovo is number 3 for computer manufacturers, not gateway.
My bad. My point is (or was) that even at 4%, Apple is still a top 5 computer company, and since Dell, HP, and Lenovo aren't exclusively Intel, Apple is (or will be, once the lines are switched over) the largest computer company that exclusively buys from Intel, meaning they can get favoritism. How much, I don't know. It's an Intel ploy to get Dell or Lenovo to come back to being fully Intel-ized, and keep Apple on Intel's bandwagon.
There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.
Last bit of news I heard was that Intel got Woodcrest down to a TDP of 65 watts...if these things require water cooling, then I'm making plastics right now (I'm not...I'm really not.)
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.
What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?
Quote:
The Following is By Robert L. Mitchell. @ Computerworld.
"An IDC report on desktop PC vendor market share shows Lenovo stabilizing and while Dell remains firmly entrenched as the market leader. IDC's report for the 3rd quarter of 2005 (the latest available) shows Lenovo's numbers finally catching back up to where they were before it purchased its PC business from IBM, according to analyst Richard Shim. Here's the market share breakout:?
Dell: 34.5%
HP: 20.5
Gateway: 7.1
Lenovo: 3.2
Apple: 3.1"
While the numbers show Dell holding steady over the same quarter in 2004, HP lost roughly one point of market share over the same period. The biggest winner: Apple, which gained nearly a full percentage point in market share after reporting a 43% increase in unit shipments. "
You want to try that math again? Even if HP only used intel on 50% of their computers they would beat Apple by 3x ++
Gateway uses all intel processors, and they more than double Apple's percentage too.
BTW, PowerBooks have been announced at WWDC. I think the 30" display was too, but I'm not totally sure about that.
My point isn't raw numbers, it's that Intel wants to give huge advantages to companies that are Intel-only. Dell is like 90% Intel, but Intel wants to be 100% of Dell sales. So I think any perks will be based on the fact that Apple has what some claim is a totally exclusive multi-year contract for its x86 chips.
Anyways, I apologize for sort of dragging this thread off topic. To try to get back on topic, I'd like to say that Intel expects something like 3/4 of all chips it produces and ships to be dual-core (Pentium D, Yonah, Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest, Sossaman, Xeon) (http://www.informationweek.com/story...cleID=60404409). My point is that by year's end, dual core will not be so much of a leg to stand on, even 2.5-3.0 GHz range. Therefore, the whole line will have to be quad-core if it's gonna be "remarkable" or even brag-worthy. A $2000 quad-core (dual-dual) machine will turn heads, period.
My point isn't raw numbers, it's that Intel wants to give huge advantages to companies that are Intel-only. Dell is like 90% Intel, but Intel wants to be 100% of Dell sales. So I think any perks will be based on the fact that Apple has what some claim is a totally exclusive multi-year contract for its x86 chips.
I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.
The gateway laptop on the other hand is real, but it's not in their current lineup. As far as I can tell their entire desktop, server, and laptop series' are all intel now.
But as you said about loosing the thread. Yes everything will have dual core processors soon, but that doesn't mean stop, and wait for four. Processors are on a major climb, quad core single socket and dual socket processors are due from intel in early 2007. Updates happen. That's just evolutionary growth.
I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.
No. Dell will use Opterons in some multi-processor high end servers. No plans for AMD on desktop or notebooks so far. I saw an interview of Dell's CEO on CNBC the day this news was announced and it was interesting how despite the interviewer's focus on the introduction of AMD chips to Dell's sever product line, he(Dell CEO) went out of his way to mention how 'excited' he was about Intel's 'new' Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest chips. Link below
Comments
Originally posted by emig647
Yes but remember, apple gets HUGE discounts from bulk. So it could still be possible to go 2.66.
I wouldn't count out 2x3ghz either... that'd really stick it to IBM for not delivering, switching to intel directly to 3ghz... steve's like that you know
There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I mean come'on folks. WWDC is a ways away Apple's STILL a company that has earnings to make. You don't hold off announcing a product that's ready to ship for half a quarter because you want to try and make an impact at a tradeshow for Developers nonetheless.
Apple will ship Powermac replacements in June or early July. They can save Xserve and Xserve RAID updates for WWDC.
I've already gone through a long version of this argument with someone here. You're right. It would be foolish for Apple to wait for an event when they can have a machine out and selling as soon as possible.
Apple has become too dependant upon events.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
I doubt they'll get that much extra off, the article talked about the price cascade for buying in mass already. 2x3ghz is a possibility, but might look weird if you have 3 models with a .66 Ghz jump in there somewhere, because the lowend almost has to 2.0ghz if it sells for $2000. At $850/700/470/330 for 3.0/2.66/2.33/2.0, the 3.0 ghz line seems like a stretch if Apple wants a big margin.
While I'll admit I didn't read the part in the article where it talked about bulk pricing... Bulk prices are usually pretty substantial... I'd be amazed if it wasn't.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5. Mac Pros will come in June or July.
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.
Originally posted by emig647
I absolutely agree with you. I believe Apple is intel's biggest client now with dell leaving. If anything apple could be EARLY with these announcements.... much like the macbook pro was with yonah. I believe they were the first yonah computers shipping.
I expect the same to happen with woodcrest.
All the time stuff aside on release dates.
How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
The only computers ever announced at WWDC were the XServe and the Power Mac G5.
that is incorrect.
Originally posted by emig647
In 04 the iMac g5's were almost announced but pulled at the last minute. They had them there under cloth... but I agree with you.... Mac Pro will come in june or july... i bet june.
You bet June? Let's see. The first set of processors (Woodcrest) ship out on the 19th of June - that is what intel has on hand to every manufacturer they supply. That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though. Conroe is next at about the same time in July. Merom is again at about the same time in August.
So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.
Originally posted by onlooker
All the time stuff aside on release dates.
How on earth can you think Apple is intels biggest client? They have less than 4% marketshare, and 2/3 of that are not PowerMac's.
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.
What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?
Originally posted by onlooker
...That shipment is undoubtedly sold out. I'm sure they are ramping up a second run though...
So Apple will get these babies out the door in 10 days from their arrival with only the Woodcrest configuration available, and probably in limited supply? Hmmm... I'm sticking with my guess that it will be a bit later.
If Apple goes all Woodcrest (which they pretty much have to, they can't sell a 2.67 GHz Conroe for $2000 when Dell has that for $1200-$1400), then they can intro the whole line all at once in June.
Additionally, Apple may have a piece of the June 25th order (June 19 is apparently just the launch day, the chips ship June 25). If they have the Mac Pros all ready except the chips, they could get the chips, stick them in, image the drives, and be ready pretty darn quick. Not to mention, Apple could announce them, and say "Shipping early July", then trickle them out slowly until the second wave of chips hits.
Late June announcement is doable.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?).
Lenovo is number 3 for computer manufacturers, not gateway.
Originally posted by Telomar
Lenovo is number 3 for computer manufacturers, not gateway.
My bad. My point is (or was) that even at 4%, Apple is still a top 5 computer company, and since Dell, HP, and Lenovo aren't exclusively Intel, Apple is (or will be, once the lines are switched over) the largest computer company that exclusively buys from Intel, meaning they can get favoritism. How much, I don't know. It's an Intel ploy to get Dell or Lenovo to come back to being fully Intel-ized, and keep Apple on Intel's bandwagon.
Originally posted by melgross
There's also thbe question of what cooling the 3GHz chips will require. If Apple can do away with the water cooling, that will save a lot of money. Possibly enough down the entire line to enable a more expensive chip to be used in each catagory. If so, we just might see dual 3GHxz Woodcrests.
Last bit of news I heard was that Intel got Woodcrest down to a TDP of 65 watts...if these things require water cooling, then I'm making plastics right now (I'm not...I'm really not.)
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
They have 4% marketshare, but they're 4th overall, behind Dell and 2 other beige box companies (HP and Gateway?). Whoever claimed that likely meant that with Dell going to some Opterons (and owning Alienware), Apple is the largest company that only buys intel chips (once the Mac Pros and XServe are out and the eMac's fate decided), since most other companies buy some Intel and some AMD. As the only Intel-only company, Apple could theoretically get some perks. So the original guy mispoke his point.
What other computers (I forgot iSight) came out (not got a bump) at WWDC?
The Following is By Robert L. Mitchell. @ Computerworld.
"An IDC report on desktop PC vendor market share shows Lenovo stabilizing and while Dell remains firmly entrenched as the market leader. IDC's report for the 3rd quarter of 2005 (the latest available) shows Lenovo's numbers finally catching back up to where they were before it purchased its PC business from IBM, according to analyst Richard Shim. Here's the market share breakout:?
Dell: 34.5%
HP: 20.5
Gateway: 7.1
Lenovo: 3.2
Apple: 3.1"
While the numbers show Dell holding steady over the same quarter in 2004, HP lost roughly one point of market share over the same period. The biggest winner: Apple, which gained nearly a full percentage point in market share after reporting a 43% increase in unit shipments. "
You want to try that math again? Even if HP only used intel on 50% of their computers they would beat Apple by 3x ++
Gateway uses all intel processors, and they more than double Apple's percentage too.
BTW, PowerBooks have been announced at WWDC. I think the 30" display was too, but I'm not totally sure about that.
Also, I found what claims to be a Gateway AMD laptop. It may or may not be accurate, but that's what I based my "Gateway's not pure AMD" claim on. http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_MX75...?tag=pdtl-list
Anyways, I apologize for sort of dragging this thread off topic. To try to get back on topic, I'd like to say that Intel expects something like 3/4 of all chips it produces and ships to be dual-core (Pentium D, Yonah, Merom, Conroe, Woodcrest, Sossaman, Xeon) (http://www.informationweek.com/story...cleID=60404409). My point is that by year's end, dual core will not be so much of a leg to stand on, even 2.5-3.0 GHz range. Therefore, the whole line will have to be quad-core if it's gonna be "remarkable" or even brag-worthy. A $2000 quad-core (dual-dual) machine will turn heads, period.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
My point isn't raw numbers, it's that Intel wants to give huge advantages to companies that are Intel-only. Dell is like 90% Intel, but Intel wants to be 100% of Dell sales. So I think any perks will be based on the fact that Apple has what some claim is a totally exclusive multi-year contract for its x86 chips.
Also, I found what claims to be a Gateway AMD laptop. It may or may not be accurate, but that's what I based my "Gateway's not pure AMD" claim on. http://reviews.cnet.com/Gateway_MX75...?tag=pdtl-list
.
You mean gateway being Pure Intel right?
I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.
The gateway laptop on the other hand is real, but it's not in their current lineup. As far as I can tell their entire desktop, server, and laptop series' are all intel now.
But as you said about loosing the thread. Yes everything will have dual core processors soon, but that doesn't mean stop, and wait for four. Processors are on a major climb, quad core single socket and dual socket processors are due from intel in early 2007. Updates happen.
Originally posted by onlooker
I'm not sure but I thought I read that DELL is going to be 100% AMD now. I could be mistaken about that.
No. Dell will use Opterons in some multi-processor high end servers. No plans for AMD on desktop or notebooks so far. I saw an interview of Dell's CEO on CNBC the day this news was announced and it was interesting how despite the interviewer's focus on the introduction of AMD chips to Dell's sever product line, he(Dell CEO) went out of his way to mention how 'excited' he was about Intel's 'new' Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest chips. Link below
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2428
Edit: Conroe due out July 23.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2531
June 19th Woodcrest ships out.
And Conroe due out July 23rd.
Merom August .... What date?