But, so far, while we have people on these boards who think it's important, we don't know if Apple thinks so as well.
If you are talking about me. I've acknowledged that Apple may not use SLI. My point is the possibility for businesses to use a Mac Pro to run all three major OS's and run all of their software would be a mistake for Apple to completely lock itself out of SLI. When Dell-HP and others will be selling SLI capable machines at the same price point.
Multiple GPU's are fairly new and as they become more common its only inevitable that software will be written to take advantage of SLI and Crossfire.
Quote:
Melgross:If you are talking about on screen rendering, then it isn't needed in the content business, because all of the content on the screen is 2D. The rendering is done in the cpu's.
Autodesk Lustre HD, a digital color grading system designed for working on high-definition television (HDTV) commercials and programming, as well as HDTV film projects. Lustre HD is the latest addition to the Autodesk Lustre family of nonlinear digital color grading products, which have been used to grade Academy Award-winning films such as the Lord of the Rings trilogy and King Kong.
Autodesk Lustre HD offers real-time primary and secondary color correction capabilities and real-time formatting of video deliverables using advanced Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) technology ? available in commodity graphics cards. Petit added, ?GPUs are proving to be a powerful and more flexible alternative to older technologies for real-time media processing. They are extremely fast and easily programmable, and are being developed at a faster pace than CPUs. As a result, Autodesk is able to offer Lustre HD, a system with GPU-acceleration technology, at a price that is considerably lower than proprietary hardware-based solutions.
Could they use HyperTransport? I mean, I know Intel doesn't, but as long as they're designing their own board, they use it in the Powermac now for connection to some of the ports.
Yeah, that's sort of out there, but it's an option, right?
If you are talking about me. I've acknowledged that Apple may not use SLI. My point is the possibility for businesses to use a Mac Pro to run all three major OS's and run all of their software would be a mistake for Apple to completely lock itself out of SLI. When Dell-HP and others will be selling SLI capable machines at the same price point.
Multiple GPU's are fairly new and as they become more common its only inevitable that software will be written to take advantage of SLI and Crossfire.
Autodesk Lustre HD, a digital color grading system designed for working on high-definition television (HDTV) commercials and programming, as well as HDTV film projects. Lustre HD is the latest addition to the Autodesk Lustre family of nonlinear digital color grading products, which have been used to grade Academy Award-winning films such as the Lord of the Rings trilogy and King Kong.
Autodesk Lustre HD offers real-time primary and secondary color correction capabilities and real-time formatting of video deliverables using advanced Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) technology ? available in commodity graphics cards. Petit added, ?GPUs are proving to be a powerful and more flexible alternative to older technologies for real-time media processing. They are extremely fast and easily programmable, and are being developed at a faster pace than CPUs. As a result, Autodesk is able to offer Lustre HD, a system with GPU-acceleration technology, at a price that is considerably lower than proprietary hardware-based solutions.
Not just you. Quite a few are hoping for for this. I wouldn't mind seeing either Crossfire or SLI. I just think we are pushing our desires onto Apple's "to do" list.
The idea of multiple gpu's is an old concept, and was used years ago. There were as many as four gpu's on boards available to Macs in the "old days". But, that was before gpu's bacame more powerful ? and power hungry. One slot could handle no more than 15 watts at one time, so that practice ended. It's just now coming back.
Color correctiong and rendering are two very different things.
The idea of multiple gpu's is an old concept, and was used years ago.
I'm sure any concept they come up with today someone already thought about it long ago. Just likely did not have the processing power to do it.
More specifically beyond concept, SLI and Crossfire implementation of multiple GPU's that developers can actually write software for and are actually usable in the real world are fairly new.
Could they use HyperTransport? I mean, I know Intel doesn't, but as long as they're designing their own board, they use it in the Powermac now for connection to some of the ports.
Yeah, that's sort of out there, but it's an option, right?
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
I inquired about that and was pretty much shouted down that Hypertransport is impossible.
Appears that Intel's chipset does not support it at all so there is no way Apple can use it.
Although hasn't Apple been a member of the Hyper-Transport consortium from the beginning? READ ME = YES If this Rev A Mac Pro does not have things like Dual 16X PCI-E slots, and Hyper-transport to speed up connections I would hope that Apple take a more aggressive hands on role, and flat out beg intel to continue with manufacturing their motherboards, and continue their Apple design partnership for the REV B, but let their company use technology to help them gain competitive footing in different areas. (REV B will have Quad Core CPU's BTW) Giving Apple more flexibility as to what their design can offer. Apple is a very competitive company but to gain good ground when you have such a small percentage of computers you need everything you can muster to throw at nay sayers, and the other manufacturers. Apple is a charter member of the hyper-transport consortium, and I think their partnership with intel can be advantageous to both companies. Who says Apple wont use it this time around, and intel take notice of it, and implement it in their REV B boards?
Depends on what resolution you are working at, but yes in general color correction will not be as processing intensive as 3D rendering.
At the same time you need a very capable system to color correct uncompressed HD in real time. This being done on the GPU is impressive.
It's far easier.
What most don't realise is that when rendering frames for Pixar, or other movie quality images are done, there can be 12, or 18, or sometimes even 24 re-renders per frame. One layer at a time, then several layers at once. It can take hours per frame. Color correction is a pretty simple task. One machine can tackle it.
I'm sure any concept they come up with today someone already thought about it long ago. Just likely did not have the processing power to do it.
More specifically beyond concept, SLI and Crossfire implementation of multiple GPU's that developers can actually write software for and are actually usable in the real world are fairly new.
It was easier back then because the gpu's were seen as one unit.
I see Apple as being able to leverage Intel's better chips with the technologies Intel doesn't use, namely SLI and Hypertransport. That'll be Apple's edge over Dell's Xeon workstations, and whoever's Opteron servers. The fact is that Woodcrest wipes the floor with Opterons. And Dell's already got SLI in it's better Precision models.
I see Apple as being able to leverage Intel's better chips with the technologies Intel doesn't use, namely SLI and Hypertransport. That'll be Apple's edge over Dell's Xeon workstations, and whoever's Opteron servers. The fact is that Woodcrest wipes the floor with Opterons. And Dell's already got SLI in it's better Precision models.
What most don't realise is that when rendering frames for Pixar, or other movie quality images are done, there can be 12, or 18, or sometimes even 24 re-renders per frame.
I understand that, I'm the one who posted the article about ILM using 100 proc AMD render farm and 64 bit AMD workstations.
And this is an extremely high end example. Rendering 3D graphics for a print ad does not require such resources but its still 3D rendering.
In color correction at this time there is no such thing as real time 4K color grading. The colorist has to work with HD proxies that simulate 4K color gamut. Then the color grade has to be rendered into a 4K image.
This is less processor intensive than ILM or Pixar rendering 3D for film but more processor intensive than a graphic designer rendering 3D for a picture.
Also in that ILM article they said they were using the latest Nvidia graphic boards in their AMD workstations. Which my over all point is the fact that software will be written to take advantage of the power on the graphics cards.
I have already found conflicts with what are the assumed PCI-E Express lanes for intels new chipsets.
#1) I can not get one definite answer anywhere because what I read tells me otherwise, and
#2.) There is probably a Protomac MCH for the Apple board. This would be probably the only thing that could keep MacOS X only on a Mac anyway.
First off it's becoming clear that most people have no idea how many PCI-E lanes there are on the intel chipsets. The general consensus on the internet is 20 PCI-E lanes. (the Nforce has 46 for crying out loud)
The Intel 5000 chipsets have a maximum of 28 PCIe lanes (X and P) grouped to 7 ports with 4 lanes each.
1 port is dedicated to connect the ICH, 2 ports can be used for slots or for increasing bandwidth to the ICH.
The 5000P groups 2x2 ports for 2x PCIe with 8 lanes, the 5000X groups 4 ports for 1x PCIe with 16 lanes.
The ICH has 8 USB ports, 6 SATA ports, a PATA port, 2 GbE ports, 2 PCIe x4 ports, a PCI-X 133 port and a PCI 32/33 port.
The ballout of the MCH only showes room for another port (4 lanes). I couldn't find why Intel doesn't use this port.
Obviously if Apple wants more slots with more lanes they need another controller.
I don't think we will see Nvidia or ATI but a custom design from Intel.
Comments
Originally posted by onlooker
Well if it had 40 lanes, and you take 16 for the single graphics slot, and another Full speed 16X slot that leaves you with 8 lanes to play with.
First take out the 32:
2 - 16x PCI-E
And that could leave you with this.
1 - 4x Lane
2 -1x lanes - anyway that totals 5 PCI-E slots total, but If you took out the 4X slot and switched it to a 1x you could probably do more.
And still leaves 2 PCI-E lanes before reducing the 4x to a 1x for everything else.
You could probably get
1x FW 800,
2x FW 400
3 USB 2.0
2 USB 1.0
And what else would you need?
Would your SATA 2 run through there, or would that be dedicated elsewhere?
I think SATA is dedicated.
But, so far, while we have people on these boards who think it's important, we don't know if Apple thinks so as well.
If you are talking about me. I've acknowledged that Apple may not use SLI. My point is the possibility for businesses to use a Mac Pro to run all three major OS's and run all of their software would be a mistake for Apple to completely lock itself out of SLI. When Dell-HP and others will be selling SLI capable machines at the same price point.
Multiple GPU's are fairly new and as they become more common its only inevitable that software will be written to take advantage of SLI and Crossfire.
Melgross:If you are talking about on screen rendering, then it isn't needed in the content business, because all of the content on the screen is 2D. The rendering is done in the cpu's.
Autodesk Lustre HD, a digital color grading system designed for working on high-definition television (HDTV) commercials and programming, as well as HDTV film projects. Lustre HD is the latest addition to the Autodesk Lustre family of nonlinear digital color grading products, which have been used to grade Academy Award-winning films such as the Lord of the Rings trilogy and King Kong.
Autodesk Lustre HD offers real-time primary and secondary color correction capabilities and real-time formatting of video deliverables using advanced Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) technology ? available in commodity graphics cards. Petit added, ?GPUs are proving to be a powerful and more flexible alternative to older technologies for real-time media processing. They are extremely fast and easily programmable, and are being developed at a faster pace than CPUs. As a result, Autodesk is able to offer Lustre HD, a system with GPU-acceleration technology, at a price that is considerably lower than proprietary hardware-based solutions.
Yeah, that's sort of out there, but it's an option, right?
Appears that Intel's chipset does not support it at all so there is no way Apple can use it.
Originally posted by TenoBell
If you are talking about me. I've acknowledged that Apple may not use SLI. My point is the possibility for businesses to use a Mac Pro to run all three major OS's and run all of their software would be a mistake for Apple to completely lock itself out of SLI. When Dell-HP and others will be selling SLI capable machines at the same price point.
Multiple GPU's are fairly new and as they become more common its only inevitable that software will be written to take advantage of SLI and Crossfire.
Autodesk Lustre HD, a digital color grading system designed for working on high-definition television (HDTV) commercials and programming, as well as HDTV film projects. Lustre HD is the latest addition to the Autodesk Lustre family of nonlinear digital color grading products, which have been used to grade Academy Award-winning films such as the Lord of the Rings trilogy and King Kong.
Autodesk Lustre HD offers real-time primary and secondary color correction capabilities and real-time formatting of video deliverables using advanced Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) technology ? available in commodity graphics cards. Petit added, ?GPUs are proving to be a powerful and more flexible alternative to older technologies for real-time media processing. They are extremely fast and easily programmable, and are being developed at a faster pace than CPUs. As a result, Autodesk is able to offer Lustre HD, a system with GPU-acceleration technology, at a price that is considerably lower than proprietary hardware-based solutions.
Not just you. Quite a few are hoping for for this. I wouldn't mind seeing either Crossfire or SLI. I just think we are pushing our desires onto Apple's "to do" list.
The idea of multiple gpu's is an old concept, and was used years ago. There were as many as four gpu's on boards available to Macs in the "old days". But, that was before gpu's bacame more powerful ? and power hungry. One slot could handle no more than 15 watts at one time, so that practice ended. It's just now coming back.
Color correctiong and rendering are two very different things.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I inquired about that and was pretty much shouted down that Hypertransport is impossible.
Appears that Intel's chipset does not support it at all so there is no way Apple can use it.
Now that Hyper Transport has been released into the public arena, Intel could use it. There has been speculation as to that.
Color correctiong and rendering are two very different things.
Depends on what resolution you are working at, but yes in general color correction will not be as processing intensive as 3D rendering.
At the same time you need a very capable system to color correct uncompressed HD in real time. This being done on the GPU is impressive.
The idea of multiple gpu's is an old concept, and was used years ago.
I'm sure any concept they come up with today someone already thought about it long ago. Just likely did not have the processing power to do it.
More specifically beyond concept, SLI and Crossfire implementation of multiple GPU's that developers can actually write software for and are actually usable in the real world are fairly new.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Could they use HyperTransport? I mean, I know Intel doesn't, but as long as they're designing their own board, they use it in the Powermac now for connection to some of the ports.
Yeah, that's sort of out there, but it's an option, right?
Originally posted by TenoBell
I inquired about that and was pretty much shouted down that Hypertransport is impossible.
Appears that Intel's chipset does not support it at all so there is no way Apple can use it.
Although hasn't Apple been a member of the Hyper-Transport consortium from the beginning? READ ME = YES If this Rev A Mac Pro does not have things like Dual 16X PCI-E slots, and Hyper-transport to speed up connections I would hope that Apple take a more aggressive hands on role, and flat out beg intel to continue with manufacturing their motherboards, and continue their Apple design partnership for the REV B, but let their company use technology to help them gain competitive footing in different areas. (REV B will have Quad Core CPU's BTW) Giving Apple more flexibility as to what their design can offer. Apple is a very competitive company but to gain good ground when you have such a small percentage of computers you need everything you can muster to throw at nay sayers, and the other manufacturers. Apple is a charter member of the hyper-transport consortium, and I think their partnership with intel can be advantageous to both companies. Who says Apple wont use it this time around, and intel take notice of it, and implement it in their REV B boards?
Originally posted by TenoBell
Depends on what resolution you are working at, but yes in general color correction will not be as processing intensive as 3D rendering.
At the same time you need a very capable system to color correct uncompressed HD in real time. This being done on the GPU is impressive.
It's far easier.
What most don't realise is that when rendering frames for Pixar, or other movie quality images are done, there can be 12, or 18, or sometimes even 24 re-renders per frame. One layer at a time, then several layers at once. It can take hours per frame. Color correction is a pretty simple task. One machine can tackle it.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I'm sure any concept they come up with today someone already thought about it long ago. Just likely did not have the processing power to do it.
More specifically beyond concept, SLI and Crossfire implementation of multiple GPU's that developers can actually write software for and are actually usable in the real world are fairly new.
It was easier back then because the gpu's were seen as one unit.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
I see Apple as being able to leverage Intel's better chips with the technologies Intel doesn't use, namely SLI and Hypertransport. That'll be Apple's edge over Dell's Xeon workstations, and whoever's Opteron servers. The fact is that Woodcrest wipes the floor with Opterons. And Dell's already got SLI in it's better Precision models.
MacRumors Buyer's Guide
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ohUfPtBxq...ch=apple%20mac
What most don't realise is that when rendering frames for Pixar, or other movie quality images are done, there can be 12, or 18, or sometimes even 24 re-renders per frame.
I understand that, I'm the one who posted the article about ILM using 100 proc AMD render farm and 64 bit AMD workstations.
And this is an extremely high end example. Rendering 3D graphics for a print ad does not require such resources but its still 3D rendering.
In color correction at this time there is no such thing as real time 4K color grading. The colorist has to work with HD proxies that simulate 4K color gamut. Then the color grade has to be rendered into a 4K image.
This is less processor intensive than ILM or Pixar rendering 3D for film but more processor intensive than a graphic designer rendering 3D for a picture.
Also in that ILM article they said they were using the latest Nvidia graphic boards in their AMD workstations. Which my over all point is the fact that software will be written to take advantage of the power on the graphics cards.
Originally posted by onlooker
I have already found conflicts with what are the assumed PCI-E Express lanes for intels new chipsets.
#1) I can not get one definite answer anywhere because what I read tells me otherwise, and
#2.) There is probably a Protomac MCH for the Apple board. This would be probably the only thing that could keep MacOS X only on a Mac anyway.
First off it's becoming clear that most people have no idea how many PCI-E lanes there are on the intel chipsets. The general consensus on the internet is 20 PCI-E lanes. (the Nforce has 46 for crying out loud)
The Intel 5000 chipsets have a maximum of 28 PCIe lanes (X and P) grouped to 7 ports with 4 lanes each.
1 port is dedicated to connect the ICH, 2 ports can be used for slots or for increasing bandwidth to the ICH.
The 5000P groups 2x2 ports for 2x PCIe with 8 lanes, the 5000X groups 4 ports for 1x PCIe with 16 lanes.
The ICH has 8 USB ports, 6 SATA ports, a PATA port, 2 GbE ports, 2 PCIe x4 ports, a PCI-X 133 port and a PCI 32/33 port.
The ballout of the MCH only showes room for another port (4 lanes). I couldn't find why Intel doesn't use this port.
Obviously if Apple wants more slots with more lanes they need another controller.
I don't think we will see Nvidia or ATI but a custom design from Intel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWYh1yT7WCc
Looks like they are *trying* to copy the Power Mac G5
Originally posted by DHagan4755
So Woodcrest comes out tomorrow and Apple's going to wait to use it until August 7?
I hope not. If they do wait till the WWDC, I expect to see XServes with Woodcrests sooner, maybe as early as tomorrow.