This is actually good news put in a negative light. China is home to hundreds of million peasant farmers. On the farm, workers must work 18-hour days with food and housing for pay. Not only that, but farm work is the most backbreaking work known (Working on land outside all day). Workers have no access to healthcare, education, or independence. While in the industrialized city, workers can spend their money as they wish while working in a closed environment such as a factory. They can go to school at night or cure their toothache.
Women benefit the most. On the farm, they must subject themselves to customs in a male dominated society. In the industrialized cities, they have a chance to work hard and move through the ranks to become plant-managers and be independent from the rural areas.
Please view Apple's investments as blessings from the first world to the third world.
oh no schmidm, you sound like a completely heartless individual. You see, it is wrong for us to compare the plight of people who have it fairly good by most worldwide standards to the plight of people who really have it bad. You see, we as industrialized nations are really the evil ones who went into their country and enslaved the people to work for what we would consider low wages and for what we would consider long days. And we aren't even going to talk about the fact that without foreign investment, China would be as impoverished as those nations of Africa that you so callously feel have it worse than those Chinese who have jobs. Shame on you sir. Also, please realize that we cannot make decisions or comments based on sound, rational arguments, that we must instead allow the hysteria wave to carry us all, because if we feel guilty about what we have, then the Chinese workers will be loved, and hugged, and happy, and have 5 hour workdays! Don't you see the logic?
I am living in Japan. My students Mother spends 5 hours a day to make ¥2000 by putting together small components for switches, a job that even Japanese firms can't get done cheaper in China. She works from home and uses the money for paying for her kids esl lessons. When I found out I discounted her.
Thanks in part to huge loans to the ever compalining Chinese government from Japan and the investment of Japanese manufacturing giants like Matsushita , Sony and such like. The chinese people don't know why their infrastructure has developed so fast and now they have jobs. They all hate Japan for the past which I don't agree with the glossing over which Japan keeps trying to do , but historically it's what happens everywhere. I am angered at the society here declining so much to fuel China's booming economy. Even Bush asked for money from Japan after 9-11 and then where was the support for Japan ? Most American companies now send orders direct to China and side step Japan. Wages here have dropped and men over 27 years of age have little chance of full employment. Personally with all of the ipod copies poping up with many more functions at cheaper prices I would like to see the made in Japan on the back once more. China loves to copy Japanese goods and licence agreements are lost in court battles over copyright infringements in a Chinese court. The wages here are dropping and the the salary scale which was set on age and need ratio's has hit an empass. Even Sony is striping down it's futuristic product lines . Most of the companies in China have engineers that came to Japan for free education at the universities here, took their knowledge back home and now live in modern condo's and drive BMW's. We all buy Chinese products , we have too their are not enough manufacturer's making who can compete. Like the American car industry the Japanese electronics industries are in decline. Some are fighting back with made in Japan branded products and I think it is a good boost for the local economy.
I just find it disgusting how China continues to be so agressive towards Japan when it has been given so much and ironic how Google and Yahoo censor the web in China , but chinese students have websites saying death to Japan and suchlike. Typed on their 2nd hand sony vaio made in Japan and imported at a cost that they can afford.
Remember the riots ? They were screaming don't buy Japanese goods while taking pictures with their Made in Japan , Sony cybershot cameras and suchlike. Then after the Japanese started cancelling their tickets for their national golden week holidays to china , the Chinese government started to reverse the sentiments and started saying , No! come to China we love you !!
It's so sad to see a bunch of selfish mental midgets trying to justify a Chinese woman working 15 hours a day for 40 bucks a week, just so they can feel good about themselves and not try and do anything to stop it.
So what do you do? Economic sanctions? Only thing that will do is starve the common Chinese. I guarantee the established powers in China won't suffer. Military intervention? I can't see that as justified either. Ruin their reputation? The only reputation I know of the Chinese government is derogatory.
The best plan of action I can see is allowing the slow empowerment of the people to gain wait against the current regime. Everybody wants a quick "right now" solution, but nobody has it. Patience is a virtue folks.
While it's really cute for you to talk about those of us who are intelligent enough to realize that in China, $100 a month is a fairly respectable living, please take the time to note that we are not the hypocrites. While it sounds really nice for you to say "We need to do something about this problem in China!" you would also be the first to complain when the cost of everything went up because the Chinese government enforced minimum wage laws. We don't see people living in the same proportion to the rest of the world as a problem, so we do nothing. However, while you see this as a travesty, you continue to revel in your Chinese made, plastic-fantastic world while all the while bemoaning the plight of the Chinese. Which one of us is worse? The one who does not see a problem and therefore acts according to his beliefs, or the one who sees a problem and does nothing about it?
btw, just saying that its bad doesn't count as acting on beliefs
$99 a month is better than $0 a month because you don't have a job. If it weren't for global consumerism feeding the demand for Chinese manufactured good, they wouldn't be experiencing much of any economic growth at all. I get so tired of hearing all the bleeding hearts agonize over the west's (America's) exploitation of workers in China, when any pain they may be experiencing in the short-term will eventually lead to prosperity in the long-term. And the more they deal and interact economically with the rest of the world, the less the communist system will be able to maintian its grip on the lives of the people.
Bit irresponsible in that it does not provide context. For instance percentage of Chinese that are underemployed; average wage of Chinese manufacturing laborers, average cost of living in the region the workers reside, or their hometowns.
All of this is information that could be found out by an investigative journalist, likely with little effort, and so it tells me the originators of the article care more about generating an emotional response for their publication than the actual plight of Chinese laborers.
Thank you ChevalierMalFet. Right on. Sloppy "journalism".
well, it's either this or $700 iPod nanos. your call, guys.
it's a shame these people live in these conditions but you just can't compete with a country with such high levels of poverty, where they are desperate and will do anything for a handful of rice.
should we stop buying chinese-manufactured items?
this is what globalization will do to you. it's unfortunate, but if this is the cheapest way to manufacture iPods, then this is the way it has to be, cause Steve has stockholders that want their AAPL to skyrocket. some sick shit huh.
But it does mean higher profits, which translates into higher stock prices for its investors. And I don't see too many people on these boards complaining about that (even if they are down a bit from their recent highs).
Comments
Women benefit the most. On the farm, they must subject themselves to customs in a male dominated society. In the industrialized cities, they have a chance to work hard and move through the ranks to become plant-managers and be independent from the rural areas.
Please view Apple's investments as blessings from the first world to the third world.
[/sarcasm]
Thanks in part to huge loans to the ever compalining Chinese government from Japan and the investment of Japanese manufacturing giants like Matsushita , Sony and such like. The chinese people don't know why their infrastructure has developed so fast and now they have jobs. They all hate Japan for the past which I don't agree with the glossing over which Japan keeps trying to do , but historically it's what happens everywhere. I am angered at the society here declining so much to fuel China's booming economy. Even Bush asked for money from Japan after 9-11 and then where was the support for Japan ? Most American companies now send orders direct to China and side step Japan. Wages here have dropped and men over 27 years of age have little chance of full employment. Personally with all of the ipod copies poping up with many more functions at cheaper prices I would like to see the made in Japan on the back once more. China loves to copy Japanese goods and licence agreements are lost in court battles over copyright infringements in a Chinese court. The wages here are dropping and the the salary scale which was set on age and need ratio's has hit an empass. Even Sony is striping down it's futuristic product lines . Most of the companies in China have engineers that came to Japan for free education at the universities here, took their knowledge back home and now live in modern condo's and drive BMW's. We all buy Chinese products , we have too their are not enough manufacturer's making who can compete. Like the American car industry the Japanese electronics industries are in decline. Some are fighting back with made in Japan branded products and I think it is a good boost for the local economy.
I just find it disgusting how China continues to be so agressive towards Japan when it has been given so much and ironic how Google and Yahoo censor the web in China , but chinese students have websites saying death to Japan and suchlike. Typed on their 2nd hand sony vaio made in Japan and imported at a cost that they can afford.
Remember the riots ? They were screaming don't buy Japanese goods while taking pictures with their Made in Japan , Sony cybershot cameras and suchlike. Then after the Japanese started cancelling their tickets for their national golden week holidays to china , the Chinese government started to reverse the sentiments and started saying , No! come to China we love you !!
Bit late mate!
The best plan of action I can see is allowing the slow empowerment of the people to gain wait against the current regime. Everybody wants a quick "right now" solution, but nobody has it. Patience is a virtue folks.
btw, just saying that its bad doesn't count as acting on beliefs
Originally posted by schmidm77
$99 a month is better than $0 a month because you don't have a job. If it weren't for global consumerism feeding the demand for Chinese manufactured good, they wouldn't be experiencing much of any economic growth at all. I get so tired of hearing all the bleeding hearts agonize over the west's (America's) exploitation of workers in China, when any pain they may be experiencing in the short-term will eventually lead to prosperity in the long-term. And the more they deal and interact economically with the rest of the world, the less the communist system will be able to maintian its grip on the lives of the people.
You've pretty much nailed it.
Originally posted by ChevalierMalFet
Bit irresponsible in that it does not provide context. For instance percentage of Chinese that are underemployed; average wage of Chinese manufacturing laborers, average cost of living in the region the workers reside, or their hometowns.
All of this is information that could be found out by an investigative journalist, likely with little effort, and so it tells me the originators of the article care more about generating an emotional response for their publication than the actual plight of Chinese laborers.
Thank you ChevalierMalFet. Right on. Sloppy "journalism".
Originally posted by mark2005
Why can't people get this concept of relativity into their heads?
Good question.
Originally posted by mark2005
What do they teach in Western schools?
Wondering the same myself.
Originally posted by mark2005
Or are westerners just getting dumber with each passing generation?
Quite possibly.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
a 40 hour work week is a western idea, not china's.
And a relatively recent one too.
Originally posted by scavanger
Shame that all the money they save on labor doesn't translate into lower prices for the products.
It does.
Originally posted by Apparatus
It's so sad to see a bunch of selfish mental midgets trying to justify a Chinese woman working 15 hours a day for 40 bucks a week,
It's so sad to see an ignorant person chime on something they are not well informed or educated enough to discuss intelligently.
Originally posted by Apparatus
and not try and do anything to stop it.
What are you doing about it?
The End of Poverty
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
It only took a thousand years in the west for the free market to generate a minumum wage and workers' rights.
Eh? The free market that you refer to has only existed for about three centuries now.
I myself am largely to blame for this, i just so love a moral debate
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
It does.
Maybe with Walmart, but not so much with Apple.
Originally posted by scavanger
Maybe with Walmart, but not so much with Apple.
Ummm...no...it has led to lower prices from Apple too.
well, it's either this or $700 iPod nanos. your call, guys.
it's a shame these people live in these conditions but you just can't compete with a country with such high levels of poverty, where they are desperate and will do anything for a handful of rice.
should we stop buying chinese-manufactured items?
this is what globalization will do to you. it's unfortunate, but if this is the cheapest way to manufacture iPods, then this is the way it has to be, cause Steve has stockholders that want their AAPL to skyrocket. some sick shit huh.
Originally posted by scavanger
Maybe with Walmart, but not so much with Apple.
But it does mean higher profits, which translates into higher stock prices for its investors. And I don't see too many people on these boards complaining about that (even if they are down a bit from their recent highs).
Originally posted by area51boy2000
I'm surprised the mods haven't taken this one off the boards yet, considering how far off topic we have gone!
Really? Why? The topic is about conditions in Chinese factories.