If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics? If anything, a lot of the crazier things he does require the manipulation of atoms and molecules, thus manipulating matter and time itself. Sorry, but I like to think outside the box. This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics? If anything, a lot of the crazier things he does require the manipulation of atoms and molecules, thus manipulating matter and time itself. Sorry, but I like to think outside the box. This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
The basis of scientific theory is observation of the universe. So saying that science doesn't completely govern the universe would imply that we live in the Matrix. If you want to believe that, I suppose that's fine, but it's foolish to make that leap without actually studying what Criss Angel is doing.
As for quantum physics, it's well documented and there are plenty of books you can get. I'll also mention that the adjunct that is (was) quantum physics began because observations did not match extrapolated hypotheses. In other words, the study of science adapted to meet new discoveries.
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
This is the old "if science can't 100% explain and 100% prove every single thing I can think of to ask, why isn't [fill in favorite pseudoscientific/mystical thing here] just as valid?" argument. Surely you can see where this might have an easy emotional, rhetotical appeal (hence its all-too-common usage), but if you think about it much, this argument doesn't hold much water.
Besides, science doesn't govern anything in the way the universe works, it's a systematic way of trying to understand what does govern the universe. That understanding is incomplete, and probably always will be incomplete, but that doesn't justify wild extrapolations about magical abilities to fill in the blanks. We've gained far more understanding, verifiable understanding, of the way things work in this universe we live in via the scientific method than centuries of mysticism have ever produced.
"The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered." -- Robert G. Ingersoll
Other than these video clips, I haven't watched Chris Angel before. Does he routinely provide a disclaimer that he's not using video special effects, or that all of his apparent volunteers aren't in fact in on the tricks?
Either or both of those things make a lot of this stuff trivial to explain. Add the fact that he no doubt has a lot of real talent for the more traditional stage magic trickery, and I don't see much here to a "wow, magic is REAL!" convert out of anyone.
Kickaha explained the arm. It seems that the "walking on water" is nothing more than a plexiglass structure with breaks in it. The split woman is a legless woman on top of a midget and it's an old trick used by multiple magicians. The walking through glass is a pane of glass with an U cut out of it. The open end is on the bottom, they put the paper up, the glass slides up, he goes through and the glass slides back down as he briefly stands in front of the hole. The open sign is not actually on the window. I don't know how he did the building float, but he has explained one of his other levitation tricks.
I think the thing that bugs me the most about him, though, is that everyone on camera is an actor (and none are very good). I DVRed a bunch not knowing who he was and deleted them after watching the first one.
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics? If anything, a lot of the crazier things he does require the manipulation of atoms and molecules, thus manipulating matter and time itself. Sorry, but I like to think outside the box. This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
It's parlor tricks. With practice, any of us can do it. I can make light spill from something as simple as a glass globe with some tungsten inside it. MAJIX!!!@#
The basis of scientific theory is observation of the universe. So saying that science doesn't completely govern the universe would imply that we live in the Matrix. If you want to believe that, I suppose that's fine, but it's foolish to make that leap without actually studying what Criss Angel is doing.
As for quantum physics, it's well documented and there are plenty of books you can get. I'll also mention that the adjunct that is (was) quantum physics began because observations did not match extrapolated hypotheses. In other words, the study of science adapted to meet new discoveries.
A colleague and I were discussing this very thing over lunch.
One of the reasons all of these "naturopathic" cures, "psychic" shows, and other pseudoscientific oddities seem to be so popular is because the average individual can't distinguish between real research-driven science and wacky voodoo. To the average joe, the only reason his bottle of asprin or his television set isn't "magical" is because they're commonplace.
Instead of blindly accepting statements at face value, consumers should try as best they can to validate any grandiose claims. (Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof). Whether it be medicine, God, or parlor tricks, simply swallowing what you're presented without critical thought is mental laziness, pure and simple.
and other pseudoscientific oddities seem to be so popular is because the average individual can't distinguish between real research-driven science and wacky voodoo.
I think you've just explained perfectly why Intelligent Design is so popular.
I think that Q P is an interesting example for 2 reasons:
1. Science has very few "quantum leaps." It is mostly just millimetric drudgery, advancing knowledge bit by bit. Quantum physics is merely, at this point, the front end of the progressing glacier of science, which, before being assimilated into the body of the glacier, is still a murky, unsolid mixture of evidence, hypothesis and limited experimental capabilities. The unknown is not necessarily mysterious. All we know for now is that it's unknown.
2. Science gobbles up mysteries. Think of all of the spiritual debunking that it has done. Took lightning from the gods and disease from the demons. Quantum Physics, once explained, has the potential to debunk the idea of consciousness itself. Free will could become an archaic idea. The word "chance" might be dropped from the lexicon.
Q P has the potential to destroy the very idea of "magic."
I think you've just explained perfectly why Intelligent Design is so popular.
Unfortunately, the few people that want to actually explore/develop ID are drowned out by all the rabid "can't-have-my-dogma-threatened" boneheads who just see it as a convenient vehicle to protect their ignorance and foist it on others.
So yeah...plenty of people seem to thrive on remaining stupid.
2. Science gobbles up mysteries. Think of all of the spiritual debunking that it has done. Took lightning from the gods and disease from the demons. Quantum Physics, once explained, has the potential to debunk the idea of consciousness itself. Free will could become an archaic idea. The word "chance" might be dropped from the lexicon.
--B
How can consciousness be "debunked" when I'm experiencing it right now?
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
Why yes, yes I can, if you have the time. It's not difficult. Seriously. I took my first QM class and could *not* figure out what all the fuss was about. Now, start tying it together with wacky theories like holographic universes or m-branes, and it gets fun, but plain QM? A couple hours of easy chatter, and you'd be proficient at the concepts, no matter what your background.
And as shetline said, science doesn't 'govern' anything at all. It's not like a mass consciousness of scientists dictates that the universe act according to their whims. Science is the journalism of nature - reporting what happens, what events preceded it, what events followed it, and drawing rational relationships to form predictive theories that can be tested with other events. That's all.
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Sorry, but I like to think outside the box.
There's thinking outside, the box, then there's not thinking. This is definitely in the latter group.
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This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
Funny, I call that 'intelligent thought'.
Punting the unknown into a scary box labeled 'magic' is just insulting to all humanity, a belief that there are realms that, no matter how much we work, no matter how much we try, *we will never understand*. Bollocks. We're better than that. Just because *you* don't understand it, don't be so arrogant as to put everyone at your level.
Punting the unknown into a scary box labeled 'magic' is just insulting to all humanity, a belief that there are realms that, no matter how much we work, no matter how much we try, *we will never understand*. Bollocks. We're better than that. Just because *you* don't understand it, don't be so arrogant as to put everyone at your level.
Worse than that, however, is those who deny reality because they don't understand it. This is the problem many have with quantum mechanics, due to the fact that many of the predictions/observations of QM are completely contrary to what we're used to (on a macroscopic level at least).
I can understand some putting QM phenomena into a "magical" box, even though a great deal of it is fairly accessible given a modicum of effort. It's the people that scoff at the finer points of physics simply because they don't want to make the effort that piss me off.
It just took the edge of science, where the questions lie, and then went oogedy-boogedy, and claimed it was therefore mystical.
Um, no.
Yeah, although it's depiction of the double-slit experiment concerning the particle/wave duality was well done, it faltered right at the end when it went all magical about the observer effect. No discussion about uncertainty principle or anything, they just sort of chalked it up as magical.
That said, I haven't seen all of the film. Insultingly Bad Movie Physics, however, had all sorts of problems with it.
Comments
Originally posted by Splinemodel
You're into the occult stuff... wiki the Coral Castle.
You know, I remember reading about that as a kid, and figuring that he *did* use the same techniques as the Egyptians.
Something like: http://www.exn.ca/news/video/exn2003...stonehenge.asx
That's just brilliant. So *SIMPLE*.
Originally posted by Mac_Doll
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics? If anything, a lot of the crazier things he does require the manipulation of atoms and molecules, thus manipulating matter and time itself. Sorry, but I like to think outside the box. This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
I dearly hope you're kidding around.
Originally posted by Mac_Doll
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
The basis of scientific theory is observation of the universe. So saying that science doesn't completely govern the universe would imply that we live in the Matrix. If you want to believe that, I suppose that's fine, but it's foolish to make that leap without actually studying what Criss Angel is doing.
As for quantum physics, it's well documented and there are plenty of books you can get. I'll also mention that the adjunct that is (was) quantum physics began because observations did not match extrapolated hypotheses. In other words, the study of science adapted to meet new discoveries.
Originally posted by Mac_Doll
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
This is the old "if science can't 100% explain and 100% prove every single thing I can think of to ask, why isn't [fill in favorite pseudoscientific/mystical thing here] just as valid?" argument. Surely you can see where this might have an easy emotional, rhetotical appeal (hence its all-too-common usage), but if you think about it much, this argument doesn't hold much water.
Besides, science doesn't govern anything in the way the universe works, it's a systematic way of trying to understand what does govern the universe. That understanding is incomplete, and probably always will be incomplete, but that doesn't justify wild extrapolations about magical abilities to fill in the blanks. We've gained far more understanding, verifiable understanding, of the way things work in this universe we live in via the scientific method than centuries of mysticism have ever produced.
"The man who invented the telescope found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer ever discovered." -- Robert G. Ingersoll
Either or both of those things make a lot of this stuff trivial to explain. Add the fact that he no doubt has a lot of real talent for the more traditional stage magic trickery, and I don't see much here to a "wow, magic is REAL!" convert out of anyone.
Kickaha explained the arm. It seems that the "walking on water" is nothing more than a plexiglass structure with breaks in it. The split woman is a legless woman on top of a midget and it's an old trick used by multiple magicians. The walking through glass is a pane of glass with an U cut out of it. The open end is on the bottom, they put the paper up, the glass slides up, he goes through and the glass slides back down as he briefly stands in front of the hole. The open sign is not actually on the window. I don't know how he did the building float, but he has explained one of his other levitation tricks.
I think the thing that bugs me the most about him, though, is that everyone on camera is an actor (and none are very good). I DVRed a bunch not knowing who he was and deleted them after watching the first one.
Originally posted by Mac_Doll
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics? If anything, a lot of the crazier things he does require the manipulation of atoms and molecules, thus manipulating matter and time itself. Sorry, but I like to think outside the box. This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
It's parlor tricks. With practice, any of us can do it. I can make light spill from something as simple as a glass globe with some tungsten inside it. MAJIX!!!@#
Originally posted by Splinemodel
The basis of scientific theory is observation of the universe. So saying that science doesn't completely govern the universe would imply that we live in the Matrix. If you want to believe that, I suppose that's fine, but it's foolish to make that leap without actually studying what Criss Angel is doing.
As for quantum physics, it's well documented and there are plenty of books you can get. I'll also mention that the adjunct that is (was) quantum physics began because observations did not match extrapolated hypotheses. In other words, the study of science adapted to meet new discoveries.
A colleague and I were discussing this very thing over lunch.
One of the reasons all of these "naturopathic" cures, "psychic" shows, and other pseudoscientific oddities seem to be so popular is because the average individual can't distinguish between real research-driven science and wacky voodoo. To the average joe, the only reason his bottle of asprin or his television set isn't "magical" is because they're commonplace.
Instead of blindly accepting statements at face value, consumers should try as best they can to validate any grandiose claims. (Extraordinary statements require extraordinary proof). Whether it be medicine, God, or parlor tricks, simply swallowing what you're presented without critical thought is mental laziness, pure and simple.
Originally posted by benzene
and other pseudoscientific oddities seem to be so popular is because the average individual can't distinguish between real research-driven science and wacky voodoo.
I think you've just explained perfectly why Intelligent Design is so popular.
1. Science has very few "quantum leaps." It is mostly just millimetric drudgery, advancing knowledge bit by bit. Quantum physics is merely, at this point, the front end of the progressing glacier of science, which, before being assimilated into the body of the glacier, is still a murky, unsolid mixture of evidence, hypothesis and limited experimental capabilities. The unknown is not necessarily mysterious. All we know for now is that it's unknown.
2. Science gobbles up mysteries. Think of all of the spiritual debunking that it has done. Took lightning from the gods and disease from the demons. Quantum Physics, once explained, has the potential to debunk the idea of consciousness itself. Free will could become an archaic idea. The word "chance" might be dropped from the lexicon.
Q P has the potential to destroy the very idea of "magic."
--B
Originally posted by MarcUK
I think you've just explained perfectly why Intelligent Design is so popular.
Unfortunately, the few people that want to actually explore/develop ID are drowned out by all the rabid "can't-have-my-dogma-threatened" boneheads who just see it as a convenient vehicle to protect their ignorance and foist it on others.
So yeah...plenty of people seem to thrive on remaining stupid.
bergz: Right on.
Originally posted by bergz
2. Science gobbles up mysteries. Think of all of the spiritual debunking that it has done. Took lightning from the gods and disease from the demons. Quantum Physics, once explained, has the potential to debunk the idea of consciousness itself. Free will could become an archaic idea. The word "chance" might be dropped from the lexicon.
--B
How can consciousness be "debunked" when I'm experiencing it right now?
Originally posted by Mac_Doll
If science governs everything, can anyone here explain or describe Quantum Physics?
Why yes, yes I can, if you have the time. It's not difficult. Seriously. I took my first QM class and could *not* figure out what all the fuss was about. Now, start tying it together with wacky theories like holographic universes or m-branes, and it gets fun, but plain QM? A couple hours of easy chatter, and you'd be proficient at the concepts, no matter what your background.
And as shetline said, science doesn't 'govern' anything at all. It's not like a mass consciousness of scientists dictates that the universe act according to their whims. Science is the journalism of nature - reporting what happens, what events preceded it, what events followed it, and drawing rational relationships to form predictive theories that can be tested with other events. That's all.
Sorry, but I like to think outside the box.
There's thinking outside, the box, then there's not thinking. This is definitely in the latter group.
This is more than "magic." It's more like what we are capable of doing if only we expand our horizons and mental capability. I'll leave it at that.
Funny, I call that 'intelligent thought'.
Punting the unknown into a scary box labeled 'magic' is just insulting to all humanity, a belief that there are realms that, no matter how much we work, no matter how much we try, *we will never understand*. Bollocks. We're better than that. Just because *you* don't understand it, don't be so arrogant as to put everyone at your level.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Punting the unknown into a scary box labeled 'magic' is just insulting to all humanity, a belief that there are realms that, no matter how much we work, no matter how much we try, *we will never understand*. Bollocks. We're better than that. Just because *you* don't understand it, don't be so arrogant as to put everyone at your level.
Worse than that, however, is those who deny reality because they don't understand it. This is the problem many have with quantum mechanics, due to the fact that many of the predictions/observations of QM are completely contrary to what we're used to (on a macroscopic level at least).
I can understand some putting QM phenomena into a "magical" box, even though a great deal of it is fairly accessible given a modicum of effort. It's the people that scoff at the finer points of physics simply because they don't want to make the effort that piss me off.
I will bid you gentlemen adieu.
It just took the edge of science, where the questions lie, and then went oogedy-boogedy, and claimed it was therefore mystical.
Um, no.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Seen it. Wasn't impressed, sorry.
It just took the edge of science, where the questions lie, and then went oogedy-boogedy, and claimed it was therefore mystical.
Um, no.
Yeah, although it's depiction of the double-slit experiment concerning the particle/wave duality was well done, it faltered right at the end when it went all magical about the observer effect. No discussion about uncertainty principle or anything, they just sort of chalked it up as magical.
That said, I haven't seen all of the film. Insultingly Bad Movie Physics, however, had all sorts of problems with it.