I'd prefer a small tower in the $1000-1500 range,but i'd settle for the IMAC if it had video in.I just want to hook up my xbox360 or ps3 to it. Is there a major tech reason there isn't a vga or dvi input?
Jesus, remind me never to mention wanting a computer with some expandability near fanatical macboys.
Seriously, there's a market for people who want a computer that they can plug shit into. I'm sick of having external hard drive bays, I need an upgrade at the moment, and I'm not buying yet because I can't justify buying a computer that I can't put two or three hard drives into. The iMac just doesn't let me do what I need to do. The Mac Pro is just overkill - There's no way I'd ever need a xeon workstation.
There should be another tower, but because Job's believes I don't need it, I'll probably have to buy it from the windows world.
Jesus, remind me never to mention wanting a computer with some expandability near fanatical macboys.
Seriously, there's a market for people who want a computer that they can plug shit into. I'm sick of having external hard drive bays, I need an upgrade at the moment, and I'm not buying yet because I can't justify buying a computer that I can't put two or three hard drives into. The iMac just doesn't let me do what I need to do. The Mac Pro is just overkill - There's no way I'd ever need a xeon workstation.
There should be another tower, but because Job's believes I don't need it, I'll probably have to buy it from the windows world.
Welcome to the Apple of steve jobs. You can't always get the hardware you want and you can't go anywhere else unless you want that excuse for an OS out of Redmond.
I'd prefer a small tower in the $1000-1500 range,but i'd settle for the IMAC if it had video in.I just want to hook up my xbox360 or ps3 to it. Is there a major tech reason there isn't a vga or dvi input?
iMac does have DVI. It uses the mini jack to save space.
iMac does have DVI. It uses the mini jack to save space.
He said input not output.
And to answer his question, the reason there isn't one is because it would be expensive, and a feature that hardly anyone would use. You can get external Firewire solutions.
But if I must buy a new computer and if Apple don't make a computer wich allow me to do everything I want with my computer, the next question will be : will I switch to Windows ?
Why is everybody so afraid of stepping on the iMac's toes? If the iMac is a computer people truly want then they will buy it no matter what else is offered in it's price range. If not then it will die off. Survival of the fittest in the market place afterall.
Apple really shouldn't let the iMac stop them from building a computer people really want. It was said earlier in this thread that most people who want an AIO machine buy a laptop. I think that's true. The iMac may be a nice machine but Apple is forcing it on anyone who wants a midrange desktop that runs OSX. They aren't giving people a choice in that price range.
Personally I think that at least by January we will see a consumer tower. And hopefully it wil be priced anywhere from $800 to $1600, even if it cuts into mini and iMac sales. Better that it still be an Apple product then a Gateway or a Dell. Perhaps it will come in black and white plastic like the macbook and the imac.
Why is everybody so afraid of stepping on the iMac's toes? If the iMac is a computer people truly want then they will buy it no matter what else is offered in it's price range. If not then it will die off. Survival of the fittest in the market place afterall.
With "Time Machine" Apple have start providing a way to equip consumer machines with more than one hard drive.. Unless, they are saying buy your iMac and buy a third party External Hard disk in order to use system software..
1.) High quality in a car is expensive to achieve. For Audi to offer cheaper alternatives, they'd have to sacrifice a lot of their quality, and then what's the point of buying the resulting car, rather than a competitor's?
Apple don't have to sacrifice their quality to offer a $999 tower.
2.) There is no equivalent in the car analogy for the OS. I would propose that the best way to represent this is to imagine that there were two different road networks. Both road networks can get you pretty much anywhere you want. Road Network A is smooth, fast, and easy to navigate, but there are few services such as garages along the way. Network B is full of holes, difficult to navigate, there are load of services, and it goes to slightly more places.
Now, most vehicle companies make vehicles that can only run on Network B, because Network A makes their own cars, and won't let anyone else make cars that run on their network.
Now, all these other vehicle companies together make up 97% of the vehicle market.
Given that Network B is a much worse road network, why aren't more people buying Network A's vehicles and using Network A? Because Network A stubbornly refuse to offer any more than 5 different models of vehicle, they are mostly slightly more expensive than their nearest equivalents for vehicles that run on Network B, and despite the fact that Network A exists and is so much better than Network B, there is a shockingly low awareness amongst the public of Network A and what it can do.
What can Network A do about this?
Offer more models of car and advertise its road network properly. The slightly higher prices for equivalent models should stay the same in order to maintain the higher quality of the network.
Sorry that that was so seriously laboured, but I hope it demonstrates how rubbish the car analogy is and why people should just steer (oops, sorry) clear of it. No more car analogies!
You obviously didn't read my analogy. I tackled those problems which is why i said:
"Now make Audi a plane manufacturer"
Here's both your points:
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money.
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
You obviously didn't read my analogy. I tackled those problems which is why i said:
"Now make Audi a plane manufacturer"
Here's both your points:
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money.
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
No one ever expects planes to replace cars.
No one expects mac os to replace windows.
I think that Apple could give MS a run for their money if they wanted to. They seem to be content on being a minor player and hoping everyone comes around to their way of thinking. 20 years later, it still isn't working.
As for Audi, nobody seems to mention that Audi is the luxury division of Volkswagen. Apple doesn't have a VW.
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money
You're trying to tell me that whilst the Mini (starts at $599) looks nice, Apple couldn't make a tower for $999 with the specs I outlined and make its appearance just as attractive as the Mini? That is some seriously flawed logic right there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
Bloody hell, that's even worse than a straight car analogy. The point of cars and planes is very different, there is very, very little overlap (there are very few journeys that people make by car that they would consider making by plane instead and visa versa). There is far, far more overlap in the capabilities of OS X and Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking
No one expects mac os to replace windows.
You mean in the market place as a whole, or for individuals? Because, for many individuals, Mac OS can and has replaced Windows.
Really, without using any analogies whatsoever, you should provide some good reasons why Apple shouldn't have a $999 tower. It doesn't make any business sense for Apple not to offer a version of the most popular desktop configuration in the market.
You're trying to tell me that whilst the Mini (starts at $599) looks nice, Apple couldn't make a tower for $999 with the specs I outlined and make its appearance just as attractive as the Mini? That is some seriously flawed logic right there.
Bloody hell, that's even worse than a straight car analogy. The point of cars and planes is very different, there is very, very little overlap (there are very few journeys that people make by car that they would consider making by plane instead and visa versa). There is far, far more overlap in the capabilities of OS X and Windows.
You mean in the market place as a whole, or for individuals? Because, for many individuals, Mac OS can and has replaced Windows.
Really, without using any analogies whatsoever, you should provide some good reasons why Apple shouldn't have a $999 tower. It doesn't make any business sense for Apple not to offer a version of the most popular desktop configuration in the market.
1. Would steal sales away from iMac or Mac Pro
2. not going to sell enough why would anyone want such a machine? Come on, 95% of all desktops sold isn't that much for a form factor.
3. not cool enough for Apple, too PC like.
4. regular PC users are idiots. Anyone with a brain is going to think exactly as Apple.
5. When you add external Card readers, hard drives, hubs, and a giant power strip, the iMac does the same thing
6. With 2.0ghz CPUS, a 20" Apple display, and Airport/Bluetooth, the Mac Pro is only $3000.
7. Since everyone is either only reading emails or working professional projects, Apple's lineup is good enough for everyone. If your needs cannot be met, change yourself
8. Look at what happened when we released the cube,
9. be quiet you PC heathen I don't care how long you've actually been using Macs, you're opinion doesn't count
10. Steve says so and because steve is our god, it must be the case
Have I forgot any other irrational thing I've actually seem thrown out there? God, I should submit this to Dave Letterman.
Comments
I'd prefer a small tower in the $1000-1500 range,but i'd settle for the IMAC if it had video in.I just want to hook up my xbox360 or ps3 to it. Is there a major tech reason there isn't a vga or dvi input?
Seriously, there's a market for people who want a computer that they can plug shit into. I'm sick of having external hard drive bays, I need an upgrade at the moment, and I'm not buying yet because I can't justify buying a computer that I can't put two or three hard drives into. The iMac just doesn't let me do what I need to do. The Mac Pro is just overkill - There's no way I'd ever need a xeon workstation.
There should be another tower, but because Job's believes I don't need it, I'll probably have to buy it from the windows world.
Jesus, remind me never to mention wanting a computer with some expandability near fanatical macboys.
Seriously, there's a market for people who want a computer that they can plug shit into. I'm sick of having external hard drive bays, I need an upgrade at the moment, and I'm not buying yet because I can't justify buying a computer that I can't put two or three hard drives into. The iMac just doesn't let me do what I need to do. The Mac Pro is just overkill - There's no way I'd ever need a xeon workstation.
There should be another tower, but because Job's believes I don't need it, I'll probably have to buy it from the windows world.
Welcome to the Apple of steve jobs. You can't always get the hardware you want and you can't go anywhere else unless you want that excuse for an OS out of Redmond.
Hello from a long time reader (circa'97).
I'd prefer a small tower in the $1000-1500 range,but i'd settle for the IMAC if it had video in.I just want to hook up my xbox360 or ps3 to it. Is there a major tech reason there isn't a vga or dvi input?
iMac does have DVI. It uses the mini jack to save space.
iMac does have DVI. It uses the mini jack to save space.
He said input not output.
And to answer his question, the reason there isn't one is because it would be expensive, and a feature that hardly anyone would use. You can get external Firewire solutions.
A couple things here
1. You may be rich, but $2100 is a lot of money to spend on a computer.
2. It's a PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATION, not a desktop.
To rebutt:
1. Toyota vs. Chevy
2. Computer is as Computer does
But I was just pointing it out in the first place. ;D I would like to see a midrange tower.
...Mac users do not have the majority opinion.
Majority? What's a maj...<SQUISH!> oh, shoot. I think I just stepped in it.
Apple computers are really great.
But if I must buy a new computer and if Apple don't make a computer wich allow me to do everything I want with my computer, the next question will be : will I switch to Windows ?
If you follow the logic that was metioned on page 1,
If a "Mac" comes out, then a "Macbook Mini" is due, and and a "iPod Pro" is due
Apple really shouldn't let the iMac stop them from building a computer people really want. It was said earlier in this thread that most people who want an AIO machine buy a laptop. I think that's true. The iMac may be a nice machine but Apple is forcing it on anyone who wants a midrange desktop that runs OSX. They aren't giving people a choice in that price range.
Personally I think that at least by January we will see a consumer tower. And hopefully it wil be priced anywhere from $800 to $1600, even if it cuts into mini and iMac sales. Better that it still be an Apple product then a Gateway or a Dell. Perhaps it will come in black and white plastic like the macbook and the imac.
Why is everybody so afraid of stepping on the iMac's toes? If the iMac is a computer people truly want then they will buy it no matter what else is offered in it's price range. If not then it will die off. Survival of the fittest in the market place afterall.
It's not pretty solution IMO.
Two more problems with the car analogy:
1.) High quality in a car is expensive to achieve. For Audi to offer cheaper alternatives, they'd have to sacrifice a lot of their quality, and then what's the point of buying the resulting car, rather than a competitor's?
Apple don't have to sacrifice their quality to offer a $999 tower.
2.) There is no equivalent in the car analogy for the OS. I would propose that the best way to represent this is to imagine that there were two different road networks. Both road networks can get you pretty much anywhere you want. Road Network A is smooth, fast, and easy to navigate, but there are few services such as garages along the way. Network B is full of holes, difficult to navigate, there are load of services, and it goes to slightly more places.
Now, most vehicle companies make vehicles that can only run on Network B, because Network A makes their own cars, and won't let anyone else make cars that run on their network.
Now, all these other vehicle companies together make up 97% of the vehicle market.
Given that Network B is a much worse road network, why aren't more people buying Network A's vehicles and using Network A? Because Network A stubbornly refuse to offer any more than 5 different models of vehicle, they are mostly slightly more expensive than their nearest equivalents for vehicles that run on Network B, and despite the fact that Network A exists and is so much better than Network B, there is a shockingly low awareness amongst the public of Network A and what it can do.
What can Network A do about this?
Offer more models of car and advertise its road network properly. The slightly higher prices for equivalent models should stay the same in order to maintain the higher quality of the network.
Sorry that that was so seriously laboured, but I hope it demonstrates how rubbish the car analogy is and why people should just steer (oops, sorry) clear of it. No more car analogies!
You obviously didn't read my analogy. I tackled those problems which is why i said:
"Now make Audi a plane manufacturer"
Here's both your points:
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money.
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
No one ever expects planes to replace cars.
No one expects mac os to replace windows.
You obviously didn't read my analogy. I tackled those problems which is why i said:
"Now make Audi a plane manufacturer"
Here's both your points:
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money.
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
No one ever expects planes to replace cars.
No one expects mac os to replace windows.
I think that Apple could give MS a run for their money if they wanted to. They seem to be content on being a minor player and hoping everyone comes around to their way of thinking. 20 years later, it still isn't working.
As for Audi, nobody seems to mention that Audi is the luxury division of Volkswagen. Apple doesn't have a VW.
1) You don't think computer quality would be compromised. Maybe not internally but externally it would. No AL enclosures, the mini wouldn't look as nice, the imac wouldn't look as nice, etc, etc. Apple designs cost money
You're trying to tell me that whilst the Mini (starts at $599) looks nice, Apple couldn't make a tower for $999 with the specs I outlined and make its appearance just as attractive as the Mini? That is some seriously flawed logic right there.
2) Once again I mentioned this: Windows in my analogy = cars OSX = planes.
The difference in transportation speaks for itself, I didn't think I had to spell it out(which I essentally did anyways). Planes and cars both serve one task, human transportation, but both do it differently. Just like mac vs windows, same point different excution.
Bloody hell, that's even worse than a straight car analogy. The point of cars and planes is very different, there is very, very little overlap (there are very few journeys that people make by car that they would consider making by plane instead and visa versa). There is far, far more overlap in the capabilities of OS X and Windows.
No one expects mac os to replace windows.
You mean in the market place as a whole, or for individuals? Because, for many individuals, Mac OS can and has replaced Windows.
Really, without using any analogies whatsoever, you should provide some good reasons why Apple shouldn't have a $999 tower. It doesn't make any business sense for Apple not to offer a version of the most popular desktop configuration in the market.
You're trying to tell me that whilst the Mini (starts at $599) looks nice, Apple couldn't make a tower for $999 with the specs I outlined and make its appearance just as attractive as the Mini? That is some seriously flawed logic right there.
Bloody hell, that's even worse than a straight car analogy. The point of cars and planes is very different, there is very, very little overlap (there are very few journeys that people make by car that they would consider making by plane instead and visa versa). There is far, far more overlap in the capabilities of OS X and Windows.
You mean in the market place as a whole, or for individuals? Because, for many individuals, Mac OS can and has replaced Windows.
Really, without using any analogies whatsoever, you should provide some good reasons why Apple shouldn't have a $999 tower. It doesn't make any business sense for Apple not to offer a version of the most popular desktop configuration in the market.
1. Would steal sales away from iMac or Mac Pro
2. not going to sell enough why would anyone want such a machine? Come on, 95% of all desktops sold isn't that much for a form factor.
3. not cool enough for Apple, too PC like.
4. regular PC users are idiots. Anyone with a brain is going to think exactly as Apple.
5. When you add external Card readers, hard drives, hubs, and a giant power strip, the iMac does the same thing
6. With 2.0ghz CPUS, a 20" Apple display, and Airport/Bluetooth, the Mac Pro is only $3000.
7. Since everyone is either only reading emails or working professional projects, Apple's lineup is good enough for everyone. If your needs cannot be met, change yourself
8. Look at what happened when we released the cube,
9. be quiet you PC heathen I don't care how long you've actually been using Macs, you're opinion doesn't count
10. Steve says so and because steve is our god, it must be the case
Have I forgot any other irrational thing I've actually seem thrown out there? God, I should submit this to Dave Letterman.
You mean in the market place as a whole, or for individuals? Because, for many individuals, Mac OS can and has replaced Windows..
And for the other individuals, as I, the question is "Do I need OS X to make what I do ?"
But that would also mean a Macbook Shuffle, Macbook Nano, Mac Shuffle and Mac Nano....
Hmm... I wonder what a "mac Shuffle" would be?
10. Steve says so and because steve is our god, it must be the case
Amen to that!