Because new chips at the price point for the model of computer have been released and to hold off too long will show the consumer and the market that Apple is not serious about competing with the newest technology available to them at a given price point. Apple has a bit of leeway, but if they are 3 month behind Dell and Company in upgrading their computers at a given price point to the latest technology then they will get a reputation of lagging behind the industry, I don't think this is something that a company that prides itself on innovation would want.
Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology, I understand their caution on releasing new models with the Conroe and Morem till they have a supply of these chips that can keep up with projected demand. However, I don't think that they want to get too far behind the other hardware companies. If they do then one must question their commitment to compete in a given market segment or the stability of their relationship with Intel, if the delay is caused by constricted supply lines while other customers (competition) is receiving enough of the chips to ship computers early on while Apple's more meager needs are not able to be filled for weeks after the competition begins shipping computers using these chips.
Bottom line: to compete on price/performance in hardware Apple is going to have to keep up with the competition a little better than they have in the past. This is especially true since they are using the same chips as the competition is today.
Here we have a post assuming the worst with no basis in fact. This is all nonesense posturing as if Apple marketing and design don't know what they are doing and as if they do not want to transition fo Core 2 as fast as they can. This is an absurd idea that is not backed up by any imperical evidence whatsoever.
FACT is they are already in the transition and are currently selling a Core 2 Mac Pro. The other models will follow into the Core 2 family as soon as Intel can supply Apple with enough Core 2 processors to match Apple's volume needs.
Here we have a post assuming the worst with no basis in fact. This is all nonesense posturing as if Apple marketing and design don't know what they are doing and as if they do not want to transition fo Core 2 as fast as they can. This is an absurd idea that is not backed up by any imperical evidence whatsoever.
FACT is they are already in the transition and are currently selling a Core 2 Mac Pro. The other models will follow into the Core 2 family as soon as Intel can supply Apple with enough Core 2 processors to match Apple's volume needs.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to. I stated that their caution in announcing systems was understandable. I speculated that one could come to the conclusion based on the facts above that Intel's commitment to Apple might not be as strong as was suggested when the switch was announced since Intel stated in their press release that they had already started shipping Core 2 Duo chips to manufacturers and almost a month later Apple has yet to announce a system using these chips let alone ship one. I noted that Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology and this delay, especially if put off till the end of September when they have their next press event scheduled, would signal that Apple is not able, or is unwilling to continue this trend in respect to the processors that they are using.
There could be other reasons to delay, but it might be a tactical error for Apple to continue to try to spread out product releases over a long period as they have in the past with the rest of the industry does not announce computers in this manner. I think that they can delay their bottom tier products (MacBook and Mac Mini) but the delay of their cornerstone products (iPod, iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Book Pro) could be damaging to Apple's image in the long run.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to. I stated that their caution in announcing systems was understandable. I speculated that one could come to the conclusion based on the facts above that Intel's commitment to Apple might not be as strong as was suggested when the switch was announced since Intel stated in their press release that they had already started shipping Core 2 Duo chips to manufacturers and almost a month later Apple has yet to announce a system using these chips let alone ship one. I noted that Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology and this delay, especially if put off till the end of September when they have their next press event scheduled, would signal that Apple is not able, or is unwilling to continue this trend in respect to the processors that they are using.
Hmm... I think it would indeed be a mistake for Apple to delay that long on Core2Duo.
Someone somewhere mentioned that many Wallstreet pros believe that Apple's momentum is slowing/has slowed considerably. I'd definately say that we're in a lul right now, though the MacPro is definately a nice gust.
From my perspective, what has given Apple that momentum in the past, and what has made them such an exciting company to watch, has been their consumer level products, and how quickly they update them. They have had a habbit of taking us by surprise, such as with the MBP announcement at MWSF in January of this year. That was ahead of everyone's predicted schedule. iPod was a baseball bat to the back of the head, as was the iMac when it was first introduced. I think Steve's Reality Distortion Field is powered by startling product releases and actions, such as the intel switch.
Apple isn't gonna announce something it doesn't have, it's as simple as that! You yourself have given the FACT that the Core 2 Duo isn't shipping until this month and Apple isn't gonna announce a consumer product without being able to deliver it within a few days. It takes a couple of weeks to create an inventory of stock. As well Apple isn't going to change over to the new processor at it's peak sales period. It would be stupid. You can't get stock for an announcement when your manufacturers can't meet your peak demand.
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
Apple isn't gonna announce something it doesn't have, it's as simple as that! You yourself have given the FACT that the Core 2 Duo isn't shipping until this month and Apple isn't gonna announce a consumer product without being able to deliver it within a few days. It takes a couple of weeks to create an inventory of stock. As well Apple isn't going to change over to the new processor at it's peak sales period. It would be stupid. You can't get stock for an announcement when your manufacturers can't meet your peak demand.
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
??? Who are you replying to?
btw, remember the september 5 High Security Freight Delivery? I'm not on the 'in' on how the industry manages it's logistics system, but HSFD sounds like an unannounced product or product update to me.
Apple isn't gonna announce something it doesn't have, it's as simple as that! You yourself have given the FACT that the Core 2 Duo isn't shipping until this month and Apple isn't gonna announce a consumer product without being able to deliver it within a few days. It takes a couple of weeks to create an inventory of stock. As well Apple isn't going to change over to the new processor at it's peak sales period. It would be stupid. You can't get stock for an announcement when your manufacturers can't meet your peak demand.
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
According to Intel Core 2 Duo desktop chips were shipping to customers (Dell, Gateway, HP, and presumably Apple) since before July 27th, the date of the announcement (see link above). As far as I know Dell has already begun shipping them, but I cannot confirm this.
The laptop chips were due to ship this month and Intel expected laptops to be shipping to customers with this new chip by the end of August, which is almost here.
Now Apple has not announced a system using an available chip, the Core 2 Duo desktop variant. There may be many reasons for this from lack sufficient supply from Intel to delays in the custom mother board that Apple needs for their systems, to a marketing decision from Apple to delay the release so that the press concentrates on the Mac Pro to maximize exposure to this system's release. None of these bode well for Apple in my opinion, though the last reason is probably the least worrying if it is the reason. I think that if Apple continues to lag in announcing new systems then part of their image as an innovator, at least on the hardware front, is tarnished since they will be late to market with systems using the new chips. The switch to Intel demands a change in their marketing strategy in this regard so that they are not "following the leader" with new systems as Intel releases new chips.
January was pretty good, Intel's announcement was quickly followed up with MacWorld and the release of the iMac and MBP. However, the Mac Pro was announced a month after Intel announced the chip was shipping, and the same can be said for the Core 2 Duo. The laptops are understandable since that chip is not shipping yet, but by all accounts the desktop chip is shipping. One can only wonder why Apple has not announced the new systems when others are supposed to be shipping systems using these chips already.
As to my comments on the Xeon I follow the marketing. The chip is referred to as a Xeon on both Dell's and Apple's marketing material and not a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo, or Core 2. They may be the same family of processors but the same could be said of the G4 and G5. These processors are not in the same class and are marketed different.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Wrong. The Mac Pro does not use Core Duo. The second sentence contradicts the first. Also, the Mac Pro uses Woodcrest, a more powerful version of the exact same core used in the Core 2 Duo, so Multimedia's point is still valid. Your "gotcha" attempt failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCG
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
That's true, but Woodcrest is faster than Conroe, uses the same core and is available right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCG
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to.
I agree, but Apple just completed the Intel transition ahead of schedule. The Mac Pro allows customization equal to Dell or HP. No major OEM has Merom products. Apple laptops are fully competitive with what the rest of the industry has to offer. I wouldn't want Apple to suffer from the same sort of debacle now affecting Dell, which can't ship Core 2 Duo systems announced last month because of motherboard heat issues. The ETA for those systems is mid October. I agree that the iMac needs to be refreshed ASAP but if Apple wants to use Merom it is not yet available. They could use Conroe but it would consume more power and generate more heat. The iMac should remain a quiet computer.
You can't accuse Apple of a crime it hasn't commited. And just because Apple has previously announced their products at media events doesn't mean that they always have to do it that way. Jobs broke the "one more thing" tradition (which was stale) at the WWDC and the MacBook was also announced without all the hoopla. Patience, please.
btw, remember the september 5 High Security Freight Delivery? I'm not on the 'in' on how the industry manages it's logistics system, but HSFD sounds like an unannounced product or product update to me.
What does everyone else think?
hmmm . . . no official announcement of a press event and 12 days to go? I can't help but be a little skeptical about this.
Wrong. The Mac Pro does not use Core Duo. The second sentence contradicts the first. Also, the Mac Pro uses Woodcrest, a more powerful version of the exact same core used in the Core 2 Duo, so Multimedia's point is still valid. Your "gotcha" attempt failed.
What I meant to say was that all other [meaning that the Mac Pro and Xserve] systems except the Xserve use Core Duo processors. The Woodcrest is a Core architecture, but it is not part of the Core Duo line, and are not marketed as part of that line, just look at Apple, Intel's and Dell's web sights. A G4 and G5 are both Power PC but they are in an entirely different class, its the same for the Core 2 Duo and the Xeon 5100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kukito
That's true, but Woodcrest is faster than Conroe, uses the same core and is available right now.
Based off of Intel's press release the desktop Core 2 Duo, aka Conroe, has been shipping to manufacturers since at least July 27th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kukito
I wouldn't want Apple to suffer from the same sort of debacle now affecting Dell, which can't ship Core 2 Duo systems announced last month because of motherboard heat issues. The ETA for those systems is mid October. I agree that the iMac needs to be refreshed ASAP but if Apple wants to use Merom it is not yet available. They could use Conroe but it would consume more power and generate more heat. The iMac should remain a quiet computer.
I agree, and I believe that I stated that I understood caution on Apple's part in announcing systems using the Morem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kukito
You can't accuse Apple of a crime it hasn't commited. And just because Apple has previously announced their products at media events doesn't mean that they always have to do it that way. Jobs broke the "one more thing" tradition (which was stale) at the WWDC and the MacBook was also announced without all the hoopla. Patience, please.
I wasn't trying to accuse Apple of a crime. I was trying to point out a few reasons for delays and what I believe are the adverse consequences of them. I don't think that it will hurt Apple to wait a reasonable amount of time to release new systems, but I think that it will be hard for Apple to maintain a reputation as a technology leader in their hardware when they are continually a month or more behind the rest of the industry to adopt the new chips for their systems.
As to my comments on the Xeon I follow the marketing. The chip is referred to as a Xeon on both Dell's and Apple's marketing material and not a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo, or Core 2. They may be the same family of processors but the same could be said of the G4 and G5. These processors are not in the same class and are marketed different.
Wrong! You are as ignorant as you are stubborn. G4 and G5 use different cores. Woodcrest, Conroe (Core 2 Duo for desktops) and Merom (Core 2 Duo for laptops) are based on the same core. For your edification, I refer you to this page:
I was trying to point out a few reasons for delays and what I believe are the adverse consequences of them. I don't think that it will hurt Apple to wait a reasonable amount of time to release new systems, but I think that it will be hard for Apple to maintain a reputation as a technology leader in their hardware when they are continually a month or more behind the rest of the industry to adopt the new chips for their systems.
Wrong! Apple was the first to use Core Duo, among the first to use Woodcrest and will probably be among the first to use Merom. So your argument that Apple is "a month or more behind the rest of the industry" is not supported by the facts.
Wrong! You are as ignorant as you are stubborn. G4 and G5 use different cores. Woodcrest, Conroe (Core 2 Duo for desktops) and Merom (Core 2 Duo for laptops) are based on the same core. For your edification, I refer you to this page:
As you can see, Woodcrest (Xeon 5100 series) is a faster version of the same core used for Conroe and Merom.
Maybe the G3 and G4 would have been a better example, but the point is the same. Although they use the same architecture and core they are different chips, and it is not just that one is faster than the other. The Woodcrest has other things that differentiate it from the rest of the Core family, such as being MP capable. This is a higher end chip and is not marketed as a Core Duo chip by Intel, who sells it under the name Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® processor 5100 series. It is not listed under the family of Core Duo chips on Intel's website. Call me ignorant, and I will admit that I am not a hardware engineer, but the processor in the Mac Pro is not of the Core Duo line even if it uses the same microarchetecture and is a member of the Core family of processors. This is how Intel lists it, and it is what I said, the chip is not a Core 2 Duo processor (and I think that I have been pretty methodical to always refer to it as a Core Duo or Core 2 Duo processor, and not simply stating that it is a part of the Core family of processors). If you can show me documentation where Intel refers to it as a Core 2 Duo then post the link.
Wrong! Apple was the first to use Core Duo, among the first to use Woodcrest and will probably be among first to use Merom. So your argument that Apple is "a month or more behind the rest of the industry" is not supported by the facts.
Apple announced the iMac a week after Intel announced the release of the processor. At or about that same time other companies announced support for this chip. I believe that by the time that Apple announced the iMac you could go on Dell's web site and configure a Core Duo computer...as I recall Gateway had them as well and I configured one for comparison. I don't know if Apple was the first to actually ship a Core Duo system to customers but I doubt it. The Woodcrest was announced a month before Apple announced the Mac Pro's, and as I understand it other manufacturers were shipping computers using this chip before Apple announced the Mac Pro. The same can now be said for the Core 2 Duo (aka Conroe) desktop chips, again a month after the release and other computer manufacturers shipping units (or at least scheduled to) and Apple has not announced a system using this chip. So Apple started out the year with announcements close to the rest of the industry, in their typical fashion are falling further and further behind. I know a pessimistic view based on the bad old days of the G4/G5 processor but I see the same pattern happening...its not new and it wasn't limited only to the G4 and G5 processors, the same thing happened back in the Clone days when Apple was almost always last to ship the latest and greatest chips, at times well over a month after the less expensive Power Computing models had been on the market and shipping.
Comments
Because new chips at the price point for the model of computer have been released and to hold off too long will show the consumer and the market that Apple is not serious about competing with the newest technology available to them at a given price point. Apple has a bit of leeway, but if they are 3 month behind Dell and Company in upgrading their computers at a given price point to the latest technology then they will get a reputation of lagging behind the industry, I don't think this is something that a company that prides itself on innovation would want.
Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology, I understand their caution on releasing new models with the Conroe and Morem till they have a supply of these chips that can keep up with projected demand. However, I don't think that they want to get too far behind the other hardware companies. If they do then one must question their commitment to compete in a given market segment or the stability of their relationship with Intel, if the delay is caused by constricted supply lines while other customers (competition) is receiving enough of the chips to ship computers early on while Apple's more meager needs are not able to be filled for weeks after the competition begins shipping computers using these chips.
Bottom line: to compete on price/performance in hardware Apple is going to have to keep up with the competition a little better than they have in the past. This is especially true since they are using the same chips as the competition is today.
Here we have a post assuming the worst with no basis in fact. This is all nonesense posturing as if Apple marketing and design don't know what they are doing and as if they do not want to transition fo Core 2 as fast as they can. This is an absurd idea that is not backed up by any imperical evidence whatsoever.
FACT is they are already in the transition and are currently selling a Core 2 Mac Pro. The other models will follow into the Core 2 family as soon as Intel can supply Apple with enough Core 2 processors to match Apple's volume needs.
Here we have a post assuming the worst with no basis in fact. This is all nonesense posturing as if Apple marketing and design don't know what they are doing and as if they do not want to transition fo Core 2 as fast as they can. This is an absurd idea that is not backed up by any imperical evidence whatsoever.
FACT is they are already in the transition and are currently selling a Core 2 Mac Pro. The other models will follow into the Core 2 family as soon as Intel can supply Apple with enough Core 2 processors to match Apple's volume needs.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to. I stated that their caution in announcing systems was understandable. I speculated that one could come to the conclusion based on the facts above that Intel's commitment to Apple might not be as strong as was suggested when the switch was announced since Intel stated in their press release that they had already started shipping Core 2 Duo chips to manufacturers and almost a month later Apple has yet to announce a system using these chips let alone ship one. I noted that Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology and this delay, especially if put off till the end of September when they have their next press event scheduled, would signal that Apple is not able, or is unwilling to continue this trend in respect to the processors that they are using.
There could be other reasons to delay, but it might be a tactical error for Apple to continue to try to spread out product releases over a long period as they have in the past with the rest of the industry does not announce computers in this manner. I think that they can delay their bottom tier products (MacBook and Mac Mini) but the delay of their cornerstone products (iPod, iMac, Mac Pro, Mac Book Pro) could be damaging to Apple's image in the long run.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to. I stated that their caution in announcing systems was understandable. I speculated that one could come to the conclusion based on the facts above that Intel's commitment to Apple might not be as strong as was suggested when the switch was announced since Intel stated in their press release that they had already started shipping Core 2 Duo chips to manufacturers and almost a month later Apple has yet to announce a system using these chips let alone ship one. I noted that Apple used to be a trend setter in adopting new technology and this delay, especially if put off till the end of September when they have their next press event scheduled, would signal that Apple is not able, or is unwilling to continue this trend in respect to the processors that they are using.
Hmm... I think it would indeed be a mistake for Apple to delay that long on Core2Duo.
Someone somewhere mentioned that many Wallstreet pros believe that Apple's momentum is slowing/has slowed considerably. I'd definately say that we're in a lul right now, though the MacPro is definately a nice gust.
From my perspective, what has given Apple that momentum in the past, and what has made them such an exciting company to watch, has been their consumer level products, and how quickly they update them. They have had a habbit of taking us by surprise, such as with the MBP announcement at MWSF in January of this year. That was ahead of everyone's predicted schedule. iPod was a baseball bat to the back of the head, as was the iMac when it was first introduced. I think Steve's Reality Distortion Field is powered by startling product releases and actions, such as the intel switch.
RDF hasn't been fed for a while.
<drools in anticipation of September 5>
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
Apple isn't gonna announce something it doesn't have, it's as simple as that! You yourself have given the FACT that the Core 2 Duo isn't shipping until this month and Apple isn't gonna announce a consumer product without being able to deliver it within a few days. It takes a couple of weeks to create an inventory of stock. As well Apple isn't going to change over to the new processor at it's peak sales period. It would be stupid. You can't get stock for an announcement when your manufacturers can't meet your peak demand.
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
??? Who are you replying to?
btw, remember the september 5 High Security Freight Delivery? I'm not on the 'in' on how the industry manages it's logistics system, but HSFD sounds like an unannounced product or product update to me.
What does everyone else think?
Apple isn't gonna announce something it doesn't have, it's as simple as that! You yourself have given the FACT that the Core 2 Duo isn't shipping until this month and Apple isn't gonna announce a consumer product without being able to deliver it within a few days. It takes a couple of weeks to create an inventory of stock. As well Apple isn't going to change over to the new processor at it's peak sales period. It would be stupid. You can't get stock for an announcement when your manufacturers can't meet your peak demand.
Wait till the end of September and you'll see new Core 2 Duo Macs.
And not calling a Xeon a Core 2 Duo, is just semantics. It's the same chip with a larger L2 cache and a faster bus.
According to Intel Core 2 Duo desktop chips were shipping to customers (Dell, Gateway, HP, and presumably Apple) since before July 27th, the date of the announcement (see link above). As far as I know Dell has already begun shipping them, but I cannot confirm this.
The laptop chips were due to ship this month and Intel expected laptops to be shipping to customers with this new chip by the end of August, which is almost here.
Now Apple has not announced a system using an available chip, the Core 2 Duo desktop variant. There may be many reasons for this from lack sufficient supply from Intel to delays in the custom mother board that Apple needs for their systems, to a marketing decision from Apple to delay the release so that the press concentrates on the Mac Pro to maximize exposure to this system's release. None of these bode well for Apple in my opinion, though the last reason is probably the least worrying if it is the reason. I think that if Apple continues to lag in announcing new systems then part of their image as an innovator, at least on the hardware front, is tarnished since they will be late to market with systems using the new chips. The switch to Intel demands a change in their marketing strategy in this regard so that they are not "following the leader" with new systems as Intel releases new chips.
January was pretty good, Intel's announcement was quickly followed up with MacWorld and the release of the iMac and MBP. However, the Mac Pro was announced a month after Intel announced the chip was shipping, and the same can be said for the Core 2 Duo. The laptops are understandable since that chip is not shipping yet, but by all accounts the desktop chip is shipping. One can only wonder why Apple has not announced the new systems when others are supposed to be shipping systems using these chips already.
As to my comments on the Xeon I follow the marketing. The chip is referred to as a Xeon on both Dell's and Apple's marketing material and not a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo, or Core 2. They may be the same family of processors but the same could be said of the G4 and G5. These processors are not in the same class and are marketed different.
Fact, the Mac Pro uses a Xeon family processor not a Core 2 Duo.
Fact, all of Apple's computer's except the Xserve use the Core Duo processor which was released last January.
Wrong. The Mac Pro does not use Core Duo. The second sentence contradicts the first. Also, the Mac Pro uses Woodcrest, a more powerful version of the exact same core used in the Core 2 Duo, so Multimedia's point is still valid. Your "gotcha" attempt failed.
Fact, the Core 2 Duo family of processors was released at the end of last month, with the desktop systems shipping at the beginning of August and notebooks at the end of August.
Fact, Apple has yet to announce a system using the Core 2 Duo line of chips.
That's true, but Woodcrest is faster than Conroe, uses the same core and is available right now.
Now, what I was saying is that to stay competitive Apple needs to release systems at a rate that is more consistent with the rest of the hardware industry in the markets that they are catering to.
I agree, but Apple just completed the Intel transition ahead of schedule. The Mac Pro allows customization equal to Dell or HP. No major OEM has Merom products. Apple laptops are fully competitive with what the rest of the industry has to offer. I wouldn't want Apple to suffer from the same sort of debacle now affecting Dell, which can't ship Core 2 Duo systems announced last month because of motherboard heat issues. The ETA for those systems is mid October. I agree that the iMac needs to be refreshed ASAP but if Apple wants to use Merom it is not yet available. They could use Conroe but it would consume more power and generate more heat. The iMac should remain a quiet computer.
You can't accuse Apple of a crime it hasn't commited. And just because Apple has previously announced their products at media events doesn't mean that they always have to do it that way. Jobs broke the "one more thing" tradition (which was stale) at the WWDC and the MacBook was also announced without all the hoopla. Patience, please.
??? Who are you replying to?
btw, remember the september 5 High Security Freight Delivery? I'm not on the 'in' on how the industry manages it's logistics system, but HSFD sounds like an unannounced product or product update to me.
What does everyone else think?
hmmm . . . no official announcement of a press event and 12 days to go? I can't help but be a little skeptical about this.
Wrong. The Mac Pro does not use Core Duo. The second sentence contradicts the first. Also, the Mac Pro uses Woodcrest, a more powerful version of the exact same core used in the Core 2 Duo, so Multimedia's point is still valid. Your "gotcha" attempt failed.
What I meant to say was that all other [meaning that the Mac Pro and Xserve] systems except the Xserve use Core Duo processors. The Woodcrest is a Core architecture, but it is not part of the Core Duo line, and are not marketed as part of that line, just look at Apple, Intel's and Dell's web sights. A G4 and G5 are both Power PC but they are in an entirely different class, its the same for the Core 2 Duo and the Xeon 5100.
That's true, but Woodcrest is faster than Conroe, uses the same core and is available right now.
Based off of Intel's press release the desktop Core 2 Duo, aka Conroe, has been shipping to manufacturers since at least July 27th.
I wouldn't want Apple to suffer from the same sort of debacle now affecting Dell, which can't ship Core 2 Duo systems announced last month because of motherboard heat issues. The ETA for those systems is mid October. I agree that the iMac needs to be refreshed ASAP but if Apple wants to use Merom it is not yet available. They could use Conroe but it would consume more power and generate more heat. The iMac should remain a quiet computer.
I agree, and I believe that I stated that I understood caution on Apple's part in announcing systems using the Morem.
You can't accuse Apple of a crime it hasn't commited. And just because Apple has previously announced their products at media events doesn't mean that they always have to do it that way. Jobs broke the "one more thing" tradition (which was stale) at the WWDC and the MacBook was also announced without all the hoopla. Patience, please.
I wasn't trying to accuse Apple of a crime. I was trying to point out a few reasons for delays and what I believe are the adverse consequences of them. I don't think that it will hurt Apple to wait a reasonable amount of time to release new systems, but I think that it will be hard for Apple to maintain a reputation as a technology leader in their hardware when they are continually a month or more behind the rest of the industry to adopt the new chips for their systems.
As to my comments on the Xeon I follow the marketing. The chip is referred to as a Xeon on both Dell's and Apple's marketing material and not a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo, or Core 2. They may be the same family of processors but the same could be said of the G4 and G5. These processors are not in the same class and are marketed different.
Wrong! You are as ignorant as you are stubborn. G4 and G5 use different cores. Woodcrest, Conroe (Core 2 Duo for desktops) and Merom (Core 2 Duo for laptops) are based on the same core. For your edification, I refer you to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C...roarchitecture
and this one:
http://www.intel.com/technology/arch...icro/index.htm
As you can see, Woodcrest (Xeon 5100 series) is a faster version of the same core used for Conroe and Merom.
I was trying to point out a few reasons for delays and what I believe are the adverse consequences of them. I don't think that it will hurt Apple to wait a reasonable amount of time to release new systems, but I think that it will be hard for Apple to maintain a reputation as a technology leader in their hardware when they are continually a month or more behind the rest of the industry to adopt the new chips for their systems.
Wrong! Apple was the first to use Core Duo, among the first to use Woodcrest and will probably be among the first to use Merom. So your argument that Apple is "a month or more behind the rest of the industry" is not supported by the facts.
Wrong! You are as ignorant as you are stubborn. G4 and G5 use different cores. Woodcrest, Conroe (Core 2 Duo for desktops) and Merom (Core 2 Duo for laptops) are based on the same core. For your edification, I refer you to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_C...roarchitecture
and this one:
http://www.intel.com/technology/arch...icro/index.htm
As you can see, Woodcrest (Xeon 5100 series) is a faster version of the same core used for Conroe and Merom.
Maybe the G3 and G4 would have been a better example, but the point is the same. Although they use the same architecture and core they are different chips, and it is not just that one is faster than the other. The Woodcrest has other things that differentiate it from the rest of the Core family, such as being MP capable. This is a higher end chip and is not marketed as a Core Duo chip by Intel, who sells it under the name Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® processor 5100 series. It is not listed under the family of Core Duo chips on Intel's website. Call me ignorant, and I will admit that I am not a hardware engineer, but the processor in the Mac Pro is not of the Core Duo line even if it uses the same microarchetecture and is a member of the Core family of processors. This is how Intel lists it, and it is what I said, the chip is not a Core 2 Duo processor (and I think that I have been pretty methodical to always refer to it as a Core Duo or Core 2 Duo processor, and not simply stating that it is a part of the Core family of processors). If you can show me documentation where Intel refers to it as a Core 2 Duo then post the link.
Wrong! Apple was the first to use Core Duo, among the first to use Woodcrest and will probably be among first to use Merom. So your argument that Apple is "a month or more behind the rest of the industry" is not supported by the facts.
Apple announced the iMac a week after Intel announced the release of the processor. At or about that same time other companies announced support for this chip. I believe that by the time that Apple announced the iMac you could go on Dell's web site and configure a Core Duo computer...as I recall Gateway had them as well and I configured one for comparison. I don't know if Apple was the first to actually ship a Core Duo system to customers but I doubt it. The Woodcrest was announced a month before Apple announced the Mac Pro's, and as I understand it other manufacturers were shipping computers using this chip before Apple announced the Mac Pro. The same can now be said for the Core 2 Duo (aka Conroe) desktop chips, again a month after the release and other computer manufacturers shipping units (or at least scheduled to) and Apple has not announced a system using this chip. So Apple started out the year with announcements close to the rest of the industry, in their typical fashion are falling further and further behind. I know a pessimistic view based on the bad old days of the G4/G5 processor but I see the same pattern happening...its not new and it wasn't limited only to the G4 and G5 processors, the same thing happened back in the Clone days when Apple was almost always last to ship the latest and greatest chips, at times well over a month after the less expensive Power Computing models had been on the market and shipping.
hmmm . . . no official announcement of a press event and 12 days to go? I can't help but be a little skeptical about this.
not sure when I read it, but apparently Apple has a habbit of making PR announcements on either Friday or Monday immediatly preceeding the PR event.
what was theannouncement timeframe for OMT in january?
Who could not be there at the developers wwdc 06
I have to muce time, to do good things so if you have an boring resurch nead.
Hardwaer is somthing I can look up.
Help me send my time doing somthing to make me a better me.
I like the new hardwaer.
Core due is a modifided p3 with a large cash and is the cmp vershon of the core.
*core solo one chip
*core due two chips on one
Is it just me, or does this post look disturbingly like the majority of the messages in my SPAM box?
Steve jobes is letting some one elses give the Keynote to present the core 2 chips.
Who could not be there at the developers wwdc 06
I don't even begin to understand your post.