Anyone who thinks they will offer movie downloads at anything less then DVD quality is crazy. So lets just dismiss that whole idea right now. Nobody (not even Apple) could command $15 for a 90 minute VHS quality video in this day and age. Especially since they already sell 45 minute TV episodes at that quality for only $1.99.
I have a feeling, like the guy above, that it will be 720p video. Afterall Apple has to offer something more if they are to sell at that price when brand new DVD's can be bought for $5-20 with packaging a special features.
At $15 for a movie in 720p I would buy it from the Apple media store. Especially if they gave me a good way to watch it on my computer or put it on my TV. But $15 for a DVD quality video, no thanks. I'll just got to the store.
I would agree. Apple sell music on the iTMS to people who are barely able tell of the low compression.
Why would Apple then release video to the masses to people who could see obvious artifacts?
Think Apple Lossless for video.
Of course there are those who are true audiophiles who import there CDs to a much higher bitrate and do not even use iTunes. The same could be said for movies.
iTunes has never been for the ultra high end audio/moviephile who spends thousands on a home entertainment system.
I would agree. Apple sell music on the iTMS to people who are barely able tell of the low compression.
Why would Apple then release video to the masses to people who could see obvious artifacts?
Think Apple Lossless for video.
Of course there are those who are true audiophiles who import there CDs to a much higher bitrate and do not even use iTunes. The same could be said for movies.
iTunes has never been for the ultra high end audio/moviephile who spends thousands on a home entertainment system.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Standard DV files are very big. Uncompressed HD is enormous.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Standard DV files are very big. Uncompressed HD is enormous.
Sure and if you import a CD at the highest bitrate how large would it be? More than 700 MBs depending on the length of the album. Does Apple compress their music like this for the iTMS? The Apple Lossless format is not uncompressed audio.
If anyone could make this look good it would be Apple.
Hey, we have a prior case here known as music from the iTunes Music Store. That's where Apple insists on using the 128k bitrate and calling it CD-quality, although many people dispute that characterization, and ask for more.
So for video, Apple will pick a quality that is just a bit below what most would call DVD quality and call it that. I'm sure the studios want lower quality for downloads, and Apple pushes for higher quality, and this is where they compromise for the price. If people buy from the store, it will largely be because of convenience.
I don't see why anyone should think Apple would stop being like Apple always is.
Sure and if you import a CD at the highest bitrate how large would it be? More than 700 MBs depending on the length of the album. Does Apple compress their music like this for the iTMS? The Apple Lossless format is not uncompressed audio.
If anyone could make this look good it would be Apple.
You're confusing audio and video. A CD has a very low bitrate of 150 KBs. That's what 1x speed means. The total SIZE of the CD file is maybe 700MB.
A DVD is already highly compressed. Even MPEG 2 compresses from 3 to10 times. MPEG 4 compresses several times as much.
If you uncompress a DVD, you will get a file that is a good 15GB in size. A Blu-Ray file at 1080p uncompressed from MPEG 2, or 4 can be many times that size..
Losseless encoding is NEVER better than about 2:1 on average. You would end up with a vast file, with such a large bitrate (it can be over 100MBs, uncompressed), that it couldn't be played.
Hey, we have a prior case here known as music from the iTunes Music Store. That's where Apple insists on using the 128k bitrate and calling it CD-quality, although many people dispute that characterization, and ask for more.
So for video, Apple will pick a quality that is just a bit below what most would call DVD quality and call it that. I'm sure the studios want lower quality for downloads, and Apple pushes for higher quality, and this is where they compromise for the price. If people buy from the store, it will largely be because of convenience.
I don't see why anyone should think Apple would stop being like Apple always is.
But maybe, just maybe they will surprise us!
I agree with you on this.
Another possibility is that Apple will market full-length movies for another product form factor.
In other words, iPod video is the ideal product to view downloaded TV shows on the go... If Apple introduces their new iPad™, as a streaming mobile video pad, bigger than the speculated "real" iPod video (and nearly identical to the Sony product whose name escapes me at this moment) so that every member of the family can wander about and outside the house, and even use the built-in iChat videoconferencing to replace the old home intercom. Mom and Dad can assign "viewing allowances" for the kids and restrict their channel access, and in the meantime they can catch up on regular TV or purchased movies from the "completely new" iTunes+Movies store.
The video/movie files would thus be larger than the current iPod videos, but still considerably smaller than HDTV quality... because they wouldn't need to be bigger.
This would be another example of Apple creating a new market, just like they did for iPod video, where there previously was none. This also makes the studios happy because they have totally new market for product that doesn't compete with their current and upcoming formats.
So, according to your definition, you could upsample the output of a VHS player and call it HDTV?
That seems to be what many of the broadcasters and cable companies are doing. HD is defined by the resolution. Is there part of the HD definition that excludes crappy encoding and low bitrates?
And I think you guys who think this will include a phone announcement are crazy. You really think apple is going to have a couple big movie related announcments, and then throw in a totally unrelated (huge) phone announcment with it? No way. Even if the phone was ready to go, they'd wait a couple weeks and give it its own event.
That seems to be what many of the broadcasters and cable companies are doing. HD is defined by the resolution. Is there part of the HD definition that excludes crappy encoding and low bitrates?
Mostly they are re-encoding the movie theater versions to 720p.
Quote:
And I think you guys who think this will include a phone announcement are crazy. You really think apple is going to have a couple big movie related announcments, and then throw in a totally unrelated (huge) phone announcment with it? No way. Even if the phone was ready to go, they'd wait a couple weeks and give it its own event.
Mostly they are re-encoding the movie theater versions to 720p.
I know. But my point is that in some cases, broadcasters are using really low bitrates with lots of artifacts that doesn't really show an improvement over regular ntsc.
Comments
Apple designed, and coded the Pixlet algorithm.
So Apple licenses it to Pixar?
What the hell happened to Pixlet? Or was it a fuzzy name for H.264?
I don't think so, H.264 is the industry standard, not just Apple's, not sure if it uses wavelet compression also.
Here it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264
And here is Pixlet info (accuracy could be shaky, this is Wikipedia after all):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixlet
Anyone who thinks they will offer movie downloads at anything less then DVD quality is crazy. So lets just dismiss that whole idea right now. Nobody (not even Apple) could command $15 for a 90 minute VHS quality video in this day and age. Especially since they already sell 45 minute TV episodes at that quality for only $1.99.
I have a feeling, like the guy above, that it will be 720p video. Afterall Apple has to offer something more if they are to sell at that price when brand new DVD's can be bought for $5-20 with packaging a special features.
At $15 for a movie in 720p I would buy it from the Apple media store. Especially if they gave me a good way to watch it on my computer or put it on my TV. But $15 for a DVD quality video, no thanks. I'll just got to the store.
I would agree. Apple sell music on the iTMS to people who are barely able tell of the low compression.
Why would Apple then release video to the masses to people who could see obvious artifacts?
Think Apple Lossless for video.
Of course there are those who are true audiophiles who import there CDs to a much higher bitrate and do not even use iTunes. The same could be said for movies.
iTunes has never been for the ultra high end audio/moviephile who spends thousands on a home entertainment system.
Apple designed, and coded the Pixlet algorithm.
That's interesting, considering that Pixar has very fine programmers, and has programmed all of their own specialty software.
But, even if Apple did do it, and I'm not disagreeing with you on that, who would own it?
If Apple was paid to do it for Pixar, then it wouldn't be theirs. They would have to license it.
Think Apple Lossless for video.
Impossible.
I would agree. Apple sell music on the iTMS to people who are barely able tell of the low compression.
Why would Apple then release video to the masses to people who could see obvious artifacts?
Think Apple Lossless for video.
Of course there are those who are true audiophiles who import there CDs to a much higher bitrate and do not even use iTunes. The same could be said for movies.
iTunes has never been for the ultra high end audio/moviephile who spends thousands on a home entertainment system.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Standard DV files are very big. Uncompressed HD is enormous.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Standard DV files are very big. Uncompressed HD is enormous.
Sure and if you import a CD at the highest bitrate how large would it be? More than 700 MBs depending on the length of the album. Does Apple compress their music like this for the iTMS? The Apple Lossless format is not uncompressed audio.
If anyone could make this look good it would be Apple.
So for video, Apple will pick a quality that is just a bit below what most would call DVD quality and call it that. I'm sure the studios want lower quality for downloads, and Apple pushes for higher quality, and this is where they compromise for the price. If people buy from the store, it will largely be because of convenience.
I don't see why anyone should think Apple would stop being like Apple always is.
But maybe, just maybe they will surprise us!
Sure and if you import a CD at the highest bitrate how large would it be? More than 700 MBs depending on the length of the album. Does Apple compress their music like this for the iTMS? The Apple Lossless format is not uncompressed audio.
If anyone could make this look good it would be Apple.
You're confusing audio and video. A CD has a very low bitrate of 150 KBs. That's what 1x speed means. The total SIZE of the CD file is maybe 700MB.
A DVD is already highly compressed. Even MPEG 2 compresses from 3 to10 times. MPEG 4 compresses several times as much.
If you uncompress a DVD, you will get a file that is a good 15GB in size. A Blu-Ray file at 1080p uncompressed from MPEG 2, or 4 can be many times that size..
Losseless encoding is NEVER better than about 2:1 on average. You would end up with a vast file, with such a large bitrate (it can be over 100MBs, uncompressed), that it couldn't be played.
Hey, we have a prior case here known as music from the iTunes Music Store. That's where Apple insists on using the 128k bitrate and calling it CD-quality, although many people dispute that characterization, and ask for more.
So for video, Apple will pick a quality that is just a bit below what most would call DVD quality and call it that. I'm sure the studios want lower quality for downloads, and Apple pushes for higher quality, and this is where they compromise for the price. If people buy from the store, it will largely be because of convenience.
I don't see why anyone should think Apple would stop being like Apple always is.
But maybe, just maybe they will surprise us!
I agree with you on this.
Another possibility is that Apple will market full-length movies for another product form factor.
In other words, iPod video is the ideal product to view downloaded TV shows on the go... If Apple introduces their new iPad™, as a streaming mobile video pad, bigger than the speculated "real" iPod video (and nearly identical to the Sony product whose name escapes me at this moment) so that every member of the family can wander about and outside the house, and even use the built-in iChat videoconferencing to replace the old home intercom. Mom and Dad can assign "viewing allowances" for the kids and restrict their channel access, and in the meantime they can catch up on regular TV or purchased movies from the "completely new" iTunes+Movies store.
The video/movie files would thus be larger than the current iPod videos, but still considerably smaller than HDTV quality... because they wouldn't need to be bigger.
This would be another example of Apple creating a new market, just like they did for iPod video, where there previously was none. This also makes the studios happy because they have totally new market for product that doesn't compete with their current and upcoming formats.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...endations.html
so they've already warped that definition to encompass something less than 720p.
the current iPod already does 640x360 to TV, when encoded with MPEG4.
i guess they can cheat further by having non-square pixels, say 480p
stretched anamorphically.
anything less than 480p is unsatisfying when rescaled to 1920x1080p,
the burgeoning living room screen standard.
apple store ipod kiosk movie dispensers, anyone?
-Movie Store. 480p. $9.99-$14.99 or $3 for a one time rental. No subscription fees.
-New iPod nanos. Still black and white. 2GB, 5GB and 10GB.
-iPhone. 2GB, 5GB and 10 GB.
-No 23" iMac.
-Airport AV. Front Row on your TV, wirelessly. Movies accessable from there.
apple's quicktime HD gallery exhibits 852x480p content:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...endations.html
so they've already warped that definition to encompass something less than 720p.
the current iPod already does 640x360 to TV, when encoded with MPEG4.
i guess they can cheat further by having non-square pixels, say 480p
stretched anamorphically.
anything less than 480p is unsatisfying when rescaled to 1920x1080p,
the burgeoning living room screen standard.
apple store ipod kiosk movie dispensers, anyone?
Technically, it IS HD. 852 x 480i is extended definition.
BUT, 852 x 480p is considered to be HD.
So, according to your definition, you could upsample the output of a VHS player and call it HDTV?
That seems to be what many of the broadcasters and cable companies are doing. HD is defined by the resolution. Is there part of the HD definition that excludes crappy encoding and low bitrates?
And I think you guys who think this will include a phone announcement are crazy. You really think apple is going to have a couple big movie related announcments, and then throw in a totally unrelated (huge) phone announcment with it? No way. Even if the phone was ready to go, they'd wait a couple weeks and give it its own event.
apple's quicktime HD gallery exhibits 852x480p content:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...endations.html
so they've already warped that definition to encompass something less than 720p.
the current iPod already does 640x360 to TV, when encoded with MPEG4.
i guess they can cheat further by having non-square pixels, say 480p
stretched anamorphically.
anything less than 480p is unsatisfying when rescaled to 1920x1080p,
the burgeoning living room screen standard.
apple store ipod kiosk movie dispensers, anyone?
Thus, the iPad™. See above.
By the way, I'm taking full credit for coining iTunes+Movies.
That seems to be what many of the broadcasters and cable companies are doing. HD is defined by the resolution. Is there part of the HD definition that excludes crappy encoding and low bitrates?
Mostly they are re-encoding the movie theater versions to 720p.
And I think you guys who think this will include a phone announcement are crazy. You really think apple is going to have a couple big movie related announcments, and then throw in a totally unrelated (huge) phone announcment with it? No way. Even if the phone was ready to go, they'd wait a couple weeks and give it its own event.
A would agree with that.
And I think you guys who think this will include a phone announcement are crazy.
Agreed.
Mostly they are re-encoding the movie theater versions to 720p.
I know. But my point is that in some cases, broadcasters are using really low bitrates with lots of artifacts that doesn't really show an improvement over regular ntsc.
So Apple licenses it to Pixar?
I don't think they have to.