Apple could do a lot better with the desk top segment if it stopped playing the all in one games and offered a consumer tower. You want a pci slot you have to get a MacPro. This runs off folks.
Made true. Lucky for them notebooks is the largest growing sector otherwise Jobs wouldn't be popping the champagne
along the lines of the argument of a lower end tower...
Looking at it from a different perspective...
Apple needs to just make a machine around the same level as an iMac without an built in monitor. Having it upgradable is not for the end user as much, since yes most will never upgrade anything. Its more for Apple having to make less parts, and have more BTO options.
I know a few people including myself that would preorder a headless mid ranged mac in a heart beat. Id order a few actually. I dont need 4 or 8 cores, 2 is fine. a few gig of ram, a decent mid ranged video card... i already own 5 LCD monitors, 2 of which are bigger and better than the 24" imac built in screen. Id love the iMac if it didnt have the screen... Id replace my server and 3 main linux desktops with Macs if i could get something like that. Right now I'll just stick to having my Mac Laptop, and never buy a desktop...
Go look up just how many gaming machines Alienware sold last year.
Sales were a bit over $150 million in 2005.
That includes everything. Laptops, servers, low end, high end, peripherals, services.
If Apple had sold all of the gaming machines Alien made, it would be a small, a very small, blip.
Does anyone really think that Alienware accounts for 100% of the gaming market? Or, beyond that, that expandability at a reasonable price would appeal ONLY to gamers?
Not the greatest assumptions, mate. But methinks a lot of us will continue to reflexively go with the party line, until Apple finally releases a reasonably-priced minitower or somesuch.
No one is making any profits on their low end laptop sales. They are loss leaders that companies use to convince potential customers to upgrade from, once they walk into the store.
No one is asking Apple to enter the low-end notebook market. It would be good for them to be thoroughly involved in the MIDRANGE of the market, however, where's there's profit to be made and marketshare to pick up.
Right now, Apple's lowest-priced notebook is still priced ABOVE the AVERAGE notebook selling price. Apple seems to be at least somewhat interested in the midrange segment of the market in desktops, one wonders why they're behind the curve on that in laptops.
Apple needs to just make a machine around the same level as an iMac without an built in monitor. Having it upgradable is not for the end user as much, since yes most will never upgrade anything. Its more for Apple having to make less parts, and have more BTO options.
If it stops the whining then I'm all for it.
Somehow I think not though. The whining will just move on to Apple's choice in video card, or not being able to install off the shelf PC video cards or there being no Crossfire/SLI/OMG!!! solution LAME.
Join Alienware, Voodoo, even the Dell gaming rigs together. Still barely a blip.
Gamers IME build their own rigs. Apple sell complete systems, not parts.
There's really no way to quantify exactly how much of the market is gamers- it goes beyond counting up pure gaming systems. A gamer can easily be that guy who bought a stock Dell, and then added a high-end video card later. Or it could be the guy who chose the desktop with the somewhat better built-in vid card and upped the RAM, so he could play games once in awhile.
The very most hardcore gamers do often (but not always) build their own rigs or buy the 'gaming systems'. But hardcore gamers aren't the only gamers out there. There's plenty of guys who use their comps for work, primarily, and then game on the side. And they still want expandability.
Now add to that the fact that gamers tend to be pretty good customers, wanting higher-end, higher-profit systems, and I can't see why you wouldn't want to make some $$$ off them.
There's really no way to quantify exactly how much of the market is gamers
Of course there is. Game software sales, which is tiny and getting smaller despite the number of PCs getting larger. It's around a 200th of the number of PCs sold.
Somehow I think not though. The whining will just move on to Apple's choice in video card, or not being able to install off the shelf PC video cards or there being no Crossfire/SLI/OMG!!! solution LAME.
Wow. Asking in a reasonable way to have your needs met as a consumer is 'whining'? Guess the definition has changed since last I looked it up, eh?
Actually, reasonably-priced expandable Mac desktops would cut down on true 'whining', since you could just BTO them however you wanted, more or less.
Of course there is. Game software sales, which is tiny and getting smaller despite the number of PCs getting larger. It's around a 200th of the number of PCs sold.
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Of course, we are perhaps getting too carried away with the gamer aspect of this. We're talking expandibility, and that's something that appeals to more than just gamers, natch.
By the by- where'd you get the idea that game sales were only "around a 200th of the number of PCs sold." ?? By that count, 7.6 BILLION PCs would've had to have been sold last year. The real number is more like 200 million. Which means that games sales are more like 1/5th of the number of PCs sold.
"Apple sells 1.6 million Macs, nearly 1 million notebooks"
You'd think they were doomed, not that they'd sold more Macs than they'd ever sold.
No one's said they're doomed, just that they could be doing even better. 8)
Vista has been delayed to the point of comic hilarity. Windows is innundated with viruses, malware, spyware, and perhaps the bubonic plague and ebola as well. Due to the iPod, Apple has never looked more cool.
It's basically a 'perfect storm' of factors for marketshare-improvement on Apple's part. But the temptation during the good times is always to pad margins, which is what Apple did in the '80s/early '90s, much to its detriment. They ignored marketshare, and it came back to bite them in the ass. It was a near-death experience for the company.
Things today are not quite THAT bad, to be sure, and you do see some movements by Apple to gain share- the Mac Mini, $999 iMacs just recently - but let's be honest, they could be doing more here. It isn't about going low-end, more like being very strong in the midrange- sub $1K laptops, reasonably-priced expandable desktops, etc.
And if they did make that a priority, they'd probably post numbers that would not only make your jaw drop like the current ones, but go through the floor. And make Steve Ballmer throw some chairs out his office window.
Wow. Asking to have your needs met as a consumer is 'whining'? Guess the definition has changed since last I looked it up, eh?
But you're not asking Apple here, you're going on, and on, and on, and on to people who don't give a fudge. Somehow you think you're a typical consumer when you're not.
But you're not asking Apple here, you're going on, and on, and on, and on to people who don't give a fudge. Somehow you think you're a typical consumer when you're not.
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
And if they don't give a fudge, why do they keep debating?
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
Quote:
Irrelevant. How many Mac game sales were there?
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
Did I say I disagreed?
Did I say a midrange tower mac wouldn't get them more market share?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
.
Yeah, they can, and without having to attract gamers. Go figure
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Why jump into a shrinking market? In terms of sales numbers, PC gaming is World of Warcraft, and not much else - and World of Warcraft
already works on the Mac.
US PC Game Software Sales [2] [3][4]
* 1998 - $1.8 billion
* 1999 - $1.9 billion
* 2000 - $1.78 billion (84.9 million units)
* 2001 - $1.75 billion (83.6 million units)
* 2002 - $1.4 billion (61.5 million units)
* 2003 - $1.2 billion (52.8 million units)
* 2004 - $1.1 billion (45 million units)
* 2005 - $1.056 billion [5]
Consoles are the future, particularly when the PS3 will have full-blown linux. Sony is adding two layers of game interfaces, the expensive one where you get all the bells and whistles, and a free one which you can use to write your own games. PC gaming is dead - and the PS3 may also replace the PC altogether for a lot of people (web browsing, open office, video playback, etc, what else do you need?)
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
And if they don't give a fudge, why do they keep debating?
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
.
Still waiting for your minitower config and price. Perhaps even target audience.
And just what would they add that would get it to the top of a gamer's spectrum?
Comments
Shall I repeat the article title...
"Apple sells 1.6 million Macs, nearly 1 million notebooks"
You'd think they were doomed, not that they'd sold more Macs than they'd ever sold.
They're always doomed. You should know that.
But, now I've seen this:
"embattled computer maker Dell "
Here:
http://www.smartmoney.com/Techsmart/...story=20061013
Warms the cockles of my heart, whatever they are.
EDIT:
Ah, and I just saw this. The worm turns (don't quite get that either, but what the hell!)
(Apple) "The tech hardware giant"
http://www.forbes.com/2006/10/18/int...partner=alerts
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/11334/
Apple could do a lot better with the desk top segment if it stopped playing the all in one games and offered a consumer tower. You want a pci slot you have to get a MacPro. This runs off folks.
Made true. Lucky for them notebooks is the largest growing sector otherwise Jobs wouldn't be popping the champagne
Looking at it from a different perspective...
Apple needs to just make a machine around the same level as an iMac without an built in monitor. Having it upgradable is not for the end user as much, since yes most will never upgrade anything. Its more for Apple having to make less parts, and have more BTO options.
I know a few people including myself that would preorder a headless mid ranged mac in a heart beat. Id order a few actually. I dont need 4 or 8 cores, 2 is fine. a few gig of ram, a decent mid ranged video card... i already own 5 LCD monitors, 2 of which are bigger and better than the 24" imac built in screen. Id love the iMac if it didnt have the screen... Id replace my server and 3 main linux desktops with Macs if i could get something like that. Right now I'll just stick to having my Mac Laptop, and never buy a desktop...
Go look up just how many gaming machines Alienware sold last year.
Sales were a bit over $150 million in 2005.
That includes everything. Laptops, servers, low end, high end, peripherals, services.
If Apple had sold all of the gaming machines Alien made, it would be a small, a very small, blip.
Does anyone really think that Alienware accounts for 100% of the gaming market? Or, beyond that, that expandability at a reasonable price would appeal ONLY to gamers?
Not the greatest assumptions, mate. But methinks a lot of us will continue to reflexively go with the party line, until Apple finally releases a reasonably-priced minitower or somesuch.
Then it'll be "the greatest idea EVER."
.
Even their gnat sized destop sales outsell gaming machines by ten to one.
You don't have any good stats to make that assumption with, I'm afraid.
.
Does anyone really think that Alienware accounts for 100% of the gaming market?
Join Alienware, Voodoo, even the Dell gaming rigs together. Still barely a blip.
Gamers IME build their own rigs. Apple sell complete systems, not parts.
No one is making any profits on their low end laptop sales. They are loss leaders that companies use to convince potential customers to upgrade from, once they walk into the store.
No one is asking Apple to enter the low-end notebook market. It would be good for them to be thoroughly involved in the MIDRANGE of the market, however, where's there's profit to be made and marketshare to pick up.
Right now, Apple's lowest-priced notebook is still priced ABOVE the AVERAGE notebook selling price.
.
Apple needs to just make a machine around the same level as an iMac without an built in monitor. Having it upgradable is not for the end user as much, since yes most will never upgrade anything. Its more for Apple having to make less parts, and have more BTO options.
If it stops the whining then I'm all for it.
Somehow I think not though. The whining will just move on to Apple's choice in video card, or not being able to install off the shelf PC video cards or there being no Crossfire/SLI/OMG!!! solution LAME.
Join Alienware, Voodoo, even the Dell gaming rigs together. Still barely a blip.
Gamers IME build their own rigs. Apple sell complete systems, not parts.
There's really no way to quantify exactly how much of the market is gamers- it goes beyond counting up pure gaming systems. A gamer can easily be that guy who bought a stock Dell, and then added a high-end video card later. Or it could be the guy who chose the desktop with the somewhat better built-in vid card and upped the RAM, so he could play games once in awhile.
The very most hardcore gamers do often (but not always) build their own rigs or buy the 'gaming systems'. But hardcore gamers aren't the only gamers out there. There's plenty of guys who use their comps for work, primarily, and then game on the side. And they still want expandability.
Now add to that the fact that gamers tend to be pretty good customers, wanting higher-end, higher-profit systems, and I can't see why you wouldn't want to make some $$$ off them.
.
There's really no way to quantify exactly how much of the market is gamers
Of course there is. Game software sales, which is tiny and getting smaller despite the number of PCs getting larger. It's around a 200th of the number of PCs sold.
If it stops the whining then I'm all for it.
Somehow I think not though. The whining will just move on to Apple's choice in video card, or not being able to install off the shelf PC video cards or there being no Crossfire/SLI/OMG!!! solution LAME.
Wow. Asking in a reasonable way to have your needs met as a consumer is 'whining'? Guess the definition has changed since last I looked it up, eh?
Actually, reasonably-priced expandable Mac desktops would cut down on true 'whining', since you could just BTO them however you wanted, more or less.
.
Of course there is. Game software sales, which is tiny and getting smaller despite the number of PCs getting larger. It's around a 200th of the number of PCs sold.
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Of course, we are perhaps getting too carried away with the gamer aspect of this. We're talking expandibility, and that's something that appeals to more than just gamers, natch.
By the by- where'd you get the idea that game sales were only "around a 200th of the number of PCs sold." ?? By that count, 7.6 BILLION PCs would've had to have been sold last year. The real number is more like 200 million. Which means that games sales are more like 1/5th of the number of PCs sold.
.
Shall I repeat the article title...
"Apple sells 1.6 million Macs, nearly 1 million notebooks"
You'd think they were doomed, not that they'd sold more Macs than they'd ever sold.
No one's said they're doomed, just that they could be doing even better. 8)
Vista has been delayed to the point of comic hilarity. Windows is innundated with viruses, malware, spyware, and perhaps the bubonic plague and ebola as well. Due to the iPod, Apple has never looked more cool.
It's basically a 'perfect storm' of factors for marketshare-improvement on Apple's part. But the temptation during the good times is always to pad margins, which is what Apple did in the '80s/early '90s, much to its detriment. They ignored marketshare, and it came back to bite them in the ass. It was a near-death experience for the company.
Things today are not quite THAT bad, to be sure, and you do see some movements by Apple to gain share- the Mac Mini, $999 iMacs just recently - but let's be honest, they could be doing more here. It isn't about going low-end, more like being very strong in the midrange- sub $1K laptops, reasonably-priced expandable desktops, etc.
And if they did make that a priority, they'd probably post numbers that would not only make your jaw drop like the current ones, but go through the floor. And make Steve Ballmer throw some chairs out his office window.
.
Wow. Asking to have your needs met as a consumer is 'whining'? Guess the definition has changed since last I looked it up, eh?
But you're not asking Apple here, you're going on, and on, and on, and on to people who don't give a fudge. Somehow you think you're a typical consumer when you're not.
PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units
Irrelevant. How many Mac game sales were there?
But you're not asking Apple here, you're going on, and on, and on, and on to people who don't give a fudge. Somehow you think you're a typical consumer when you're not.
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
And if they don't give a fudge, why do they keep debating?
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
Irrelevant. How many Mac game sales were there?
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
.
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
Did I say I disagreed?
Did I say a midrange tower mac wouldn't get them more market share?
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
.
Yeah, they can, and without having to attract gamers. Go figure
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Why jump into a shrinking market? In terms of sales numbers, PC gaming is World of Warcraft, and not much else - and World of Warcraft
already works on the Mac.
US PC Game Software Sales [2] [3][4]
* 1998 - $1.8 billion
* 1999 - $1.9 billion
* 2000 - $1.78 billion (84.9 million units)
* 2001 - $1.75 billion (83.6 million units)
* 2002 - $1.4 billion (61.5 million units)
* 2003 - $1.2 billion (52.8 million units)
* 2004 - $1.1 billion (45 million units)
* 2005 - $1.056 billion [5]
Consoles are the future, particularly when the PS3 will have full-blown linux. Sony is adding two layers of game interfaces, the expensive one where you get all the bells and whistles, and a free one which you can use to write your own games. PC gaming is dead - and the PS3 may also replace the PC altogether for a lot of people (web browsing, open office, video playback, etc, what else do you need?)
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
And if they don't give a fudge, why do they keep debating?
Finally, I'm not the only person in this thread who's agreed with the general points I've made. I'm only the most prolific.
You're assuming that Apple can only appeal to folks who are ALREADY Mac gamers. That's a bit defeatist, don't you think? Recent sales figues point out that Apple can expand their market.
.
Still waiting for your minitower config and price. Perhaps even target audience.
And just what would they add that would get it to the top of a gamer's spectrum?
And just what would they add that would get it to the top of a gamer's spectrum?
Windows ?