Does anyone really think that Alienware accounts for 100% of the gaming market? Or, beyond that, that expandability at a reasonable price would appeal ONLY to gamers?
Not the greatest assumptions, mate. But methinks a lot of us will continue to reflexively go with the party line, until Apple finally releases a reasonably-priced minitower or somesuch.
Then it'll be "the greatest idea EVER."
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Of course not. But they were brought up as an example of the great gaming market. The other company that caters to that market is Voodoo, and they are even smaller. After that there are truly small companies, with sales in the tens of millions.
The point is that "game" machines probably account for no more than a couple of hundred million in sales in total. The rest of the gamers aren't interested, and just buy middle of the road machines that they use like anyone else.
Even if Apple did enter that market, they would only capture a small part of it. Hardly worth the bother for them. The way Apple does things, the development costs would be too great.
I do think there would be a market for an inexpensive tower. I always have.
Apple's new way of marketing the Mac Pro is very good. One model that can be moved around in features.
A tower could be centered on a $1,395 setup, with the ability to choose it to go for $995 to perhaps $1,795.
No one is asking Apple to enter the low-end notebook market. It would be good for them to be thoroughly involved in the MIDRANGE of the market, however, where's there's profit to be made and marketshare to pick up.
Right now, Apple's lowest-priced notebook is still priced ABOVE the AVERAGE notebook selling price. Apple seems to be at least somewhat interested in the midrange segment of the market in desktops, one wonders why they're behind the curve on that in laptops.
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Very much untrue.
You weren't here obviously right before apple released the Mac Book. The frenzy was all about Apple releasing a $799 to $899 model.
There was hope, desire, and even confidence that it would be done.
Even the non Mac sites were saying it.
It wasn't realistic, of course, after seeing how Apple had priced the other Intel machines, but that didn't seem to matter.
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Of course, we are perhaps getting too carried away with the gamer aspect of this. We're talking expandibility, and that's something that appeals to more than just gamers, natch.
By the by- where'd you get the idea that game sales were only "around a 200th of the number of PCs sold." ?? By that count, 7.6 BILLION PCs would've had to have been sold last year. The real number is more like 200 million. Which means that games sales are more like 1/5th of the number of PCs sold.
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Except that gamers don't buy two titles a year. They buy more.
The biggest selling games rarely exceed 5 million. And that's pretty good. Most gamers I know buy at least five titles a year. The "true" gaming comunitty is quite small, only a few million people. Most of them have average machines.
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
We'll make a deal then.
You stop posting on this, and we won't go on and on.
My friend (who was about to upgrade from a G4 450) put it this way:
"I have a monitor, and I want upgradability. What I do not have is $2,500."
He's going to build his own PC. Thanks Apple.
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
Does it not seem suspect, that all-at-once 'your' friend is now turning so geekish?
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
I'm not the guy so I can't say but the answer is "probably nothing," but what's that got to do with what he's going to buy next?
Your telling people who upgrade "well this is more powerful then what you used to have anyways(shoves mac mini at them) so this should be good enough."
Buddy that makes no sense.
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
Apple's new way of marketing the Mac Pro is very good. One model that can be moved around in features.
A tower could be centered on a $1,395 setup, with the ability to choose it to go for $995 to perhaps $1,795.
That's where it would have to sit.
Wow I never thought of that in the midrange that'd be perfect. It'd probably aile everyone's woes except those who go: "omg teh video card still sucks, and where's my SLI!!1?"
I'm not the guy so I can't say but the answer is "probably nothing," but what's that got to do with what he's going to buy next?
Your telling people who upgrade "well this is more powerful then what you used to have anyways(shoves mac mini at them) so this should be good enough."
Buddy that makes no sense.
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
I just find it suspect when someone who has been driving a Bug is going to build his own Corvette because the Porsche is too expensive. "That'll teach you, Dr. Ing!"
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
Does it not seem suspect, that all-at-once 'your' friend is now turning so geekish?
He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
His first computer was THE FIRST iMac from 1998. The hard drive and CD ROM drive failed in the thing, and he lamented taking the thing apart and not being able to afford a CD ROM drive that would fit in its place.
He did not have a CD ROM drive for 3 years, as he refused to put any money into "that damn POS".
He bought a used G4 450 and has had no problems. He upgraded to OS X 2 years ago.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.
I'm pissed because when he came to me for advice (since he's now going to start audio editing at home), I couldn't tell him to stick with the mac platform. He knows how much better than OS X is than XP, but it's just not worth paying an extra $1000 for stuff he doesn't need.
I should point out that for a lot of people, the Mac Mini isn't even all that cheap. If you want more than 80 gigs, you have to buy an external firewire storage unit or pay $200 extra for a measily 160GB (seriously). Firewire is slower than SATA or IDE.
For $160, you can get a 400GB SATA drive off newegg.com ... Can you understand why upgradability is key?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
Yes! that's exactly what he wants, but he wants it in 'tower' form. He'd even be willing to pay $1000 for the 2ghz model (more than it's worth).
He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.
I'm pissed because when he came to me for advice (since he's now going to start audio editing at home), I couldn't tell him to stick with the mac platform. He knows how much better than OS X is than XP, but it's just not worth paying an extra $1000 for stuff he doesn't need.
I've had multiple similar experiences over the years, and they bum me out too.
I think there's at least a half dozen people I know right now who I could probably convert to the Mac come their next computer purchase, if only Apple had some thing for them, vis-a-vis reasonably-priced expandability. It kinda galls me.
Instead of buying a PC comparable to the type of Mac he would like to buy he will build a DIY computer and a stolen copy of XP.
You honestly wonder why Apple would not put precious resources on the line to offer something for this type of person.
Actually I can sorta understand it, if its what I'm thinking. It could be called 'I dislike Microsoft and PC makers, they make a crappy product, so I'm not going to give them any money." Doesn't mean that he feels the same way about Apple. I've known one or two people like this.
Quote:
I do not understand this logic. Upgradability and money are mutually exclusive.
Upgradability is exponential. If you want a substantial boost in performance you gotta pay substantial money for it.
Doesn't really make any sense, as stated anyway. Logic doesn't have anything to do with it. And whoever told you that customers are logical in any case?
No, consumers think in terms of NEEDS. The guys' budget was such-and-such, so he NEEDED a computer that fit it. And for what he was doing (sound editing) he NEEDED a computer with expandability. Not so hard to understand, is it?
He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.…
Yes! that's exactly what he wants, but he wants it in 'tower' form. He'd even be willing to pay $1000 for the 2ghz model (more than it's worth).
As I said before, "I just find it suspect when someone who has been driving a Bug is going to build his own Corvette because the Porsche is too expensive. "That'll teach you, Dr. Ing!"
Or are we to expect that Dr. Ing should build Corvette Bugs so that our 'friends' could destroy his Porsches?
Why doesn't your friend should just go out and steal a MacPro and install his pirated copy of XP on it? He could save himself a thousand dollars that he probably needs for bail money now.
Comments
Does anyone really think that Alienware accounts for 100% of the gaming market? Or, beyond that, that expandability at a reasonable price would appeal ONLY to gamers?
Not the greatest assumptions, mate. But methinks a lot of us will continue to reflexively go with the party line, until Apple finally releases a reasonably-priced minitower or somesuch.
Then it'll be "the greatest idea EVER."
.
Of course not. But they were brought up as an example of the great gaming market. The other company that caters to that market is Voodoo, and they are even smaller. After that there are truly small companies, with sales in the tens of millions.
The point is that "game" machines probably account for no more than a couple of hundred million in sales in total. The rest of the gamers aren't interested, and just buy middle of the road machines that they use like anyone else.
Even if Apple did enter that market, they would only capture a small part of it. Hardly worth the bother for them. The way Apple does things, the development costs would be too great.
I do think there would be a market for an inexpensive tower. I always have.
Apple's new way of marketing the Mac Pro is very good. One model that can be moved around in features.
A tower could be centered on a $1,395 setup, with the ability to choose it to go for $995 to perhaps $1,795.
That's where it would have to sit.
You don't have any good stats to make that assumption with, I'm afraid.
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Actually, stats aren't necessary. You can go to the gaming sites yourself and see what they say. They complain about this all of the time.
No one is asking Apple to enter the low-end notebook market. It would be good for them to be thoroughly involved in the MIDRANGE of the market, however, where's there's profit to be made and marketshare to pick up.
Right now, Apple's lowest-priced notebook is still priced ABOVE the AVERAGE notebook selling price.
.
Very much untrue.
You weren't here obviously right before apple released the Mac Book. The frenzy was all about Apple releasing a $799 to $899 model.
There was hope, desire, and even confidence that it would be done.
Even the non Mac sites were saying it.
It wasn't realistic, of course, after seeing how Apple had priced the other Intel machines, but that didn't seem to matter.
Tiny? An odd thing for us Apple folks to say. PC game sales in '05 were 38 million units. Average gamer picks up say 2 titles a year, and you still have a market that's about as big as the entire Mac market. And Apple doesn't want to try to sell to them? Madness.
Of course, we are perhaps getting too carried away with the gamer aspect of this. We're talking expandibility, and that's something that appeals to more than just gamers, natch.
By the by- where'd you get the idea that game sales were only "around a 200th of the number of PCs sold." ?? By that count, 7.6 BILLION PCs would've had to have been sold last year. The real number is more like 200 million. Which means that games sales are more like 1/5th of the number of PCs sold.
.
Except that gamers don't buy two titles a year. They buy more.
The biggest selling games rarely exceed 5 million. And that's pretty good. Most gamers I know buy at least five titles a year. The "true" gaming comunitty is quite small, only a few million people. Most of them have average machines.
No, actually I'm responding to people who are going on and on. If they felt like moving on, I would too. Wouldn't be seemly to be talking to myself, now would it?
We'll make a deal then.
You stop posting on this, and we won't go on and on.
Ok?
We'll make a deal then.
You stop posting on this, and we won't go on and on.
Ok?
Sure, after I've replied to the recent round of posts. Kinda busy here at work right now.
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Agreed. A minimum $2500 entry fee to get a truly expandable desktop Mac is a tad ridiculous. And no doubt it is keeping some folks from switching.
Jesus H, is a resonably priced mini-tower too much to ask?
My friend (who was about to upgrade from a G4 450) put it this way:
"I have a monitor, and I want upgradability. What I do not have is $2,500."
He's going to build his own PC. Thanks Apple.
My friend (who was about to upgrade from a G4 450) put it this way:
"I have a monitor, and I want upgradability. What I do not have is $2,500."
He's going to build his own PC. Thanks Apple.
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
Does it not seem suspect, that all-at-once 'your' friend is now turning so geekish?
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
I'm not the guy so I can't say but the answer is "probably nothing," but what's that got to do with what he's going to buy next?
Your telling people who upgrade "well this is more powerful then what you used to have anyways(shoves mac mini at them) so this should be good enough."
Buddy that makes no sense.
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
Apple's new way of marketing the Mac Pro is very good. One model that can be moved around in features.
A tower could be centered on a $1,395 setup, with the ability to choose it to go for $995 to perhaps $1,795.
That's where it would have to sit.
Wow I never thought of that in the midrange that'd be perfect. It'd probably aile everyone's woes except those who go: "omg teh video card still sucks, and where's my SLI!!1?"
I'm not the guy so I can't say but the answer is "probably nothing," but what's that got to do with what he's going to buy next?
Your telling people who upgrade "well this is more powerful then what you used to have anyways(shoves mac mini at them) so this should be good enough."
Buddy that makes no sense.
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
I just find it suspect when someone who has been driving a Bug is going to build his own Corvette because the Porsche is too expensive. "That'll teach you, Dr. Ing!"
All most are asking for with a headless midranged max is more options, not every option.
I guess the question arises, what did his G4 450 have in it that a MacBook Pro, a MacBook or even one of the Mac Minis hooked up to his current monitor couldn't do faster and better.
Does it not seem suspect, that all-at-once 'your' friend is now turning so geekish?
He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
His first computer was THE FIRST iMac from 1998. The hard drive and CD ROM drive failed in the thing, and he lamented taking the thing apart and not being able to afford a CD ROM drive that would fit in its place.
He did not have a CD ROM drive for 3 years, as he refused to put any money into "that damn POS".
He bought a used G4 450 and has had no problems. He upgraded to OS X 2 years ago.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.
I'm pissed because when he came to me for advice (since he's now going to start audio editing at home), I couldn't tell him to stick with the mac platform. He knows how much better than OS X is than XP, but it's just not worth paying an extra $1000 for stuff he doesn't need.
I should point out that for a lot of people, the Mac Mini isn't even all that cheap. If you want more than 80 gigs, you have to buy an external firewire storage unit or pay $200 extra for a measily 160GB (seriously). Firewire is slower than SATA or IDE.
For $160, you can get a 400GB SATA drive off newegg.com ... Can you understand why upgradability is key?.
What if he wants exactly what an imac has to offer but doesn't want an all in one? That's geekish, or asking too much? Wow.
Yes! that's exactly what he wants, but he wants it in 'tower' form. He'd even be willing to pay $1000 for the 2ghz model (more than it's worth).
Sure, after I've replied to the recent round of posts. Kinda busy here at work right now.
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See? You're going on and on. The only way to leave it, is to leave it.
Just say you're through and leave as friends.
See? You're going on and on. The only way to leave it, is to leave it.
Just say you're through and leave as friends.
Sorry, but you seem to be missing the fact that I got buried under a ton of replies that I haven't been able to respond to yet, as I'm busy.
What you're saying is, "Ok, let me have the last word and we can part as friends." C'mon now. 8)
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He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.
I'm pissed because when he came to me for advice (since he's now going to start audio editing at home), I couldn't tell him to stick with the mac platform. He knows how much better than OS X is than XP, but it's just not worth paying an extra $1000 for stuff he doesn't need.
I've had multiple similar experiences over the years, and they bum me out too.
I think there's at least a half dozen people I know right now who I could probably convert to the Mac come their next computer purchase, if only Apple had some thing for them, vis-a-vis reasonably-priced expandability. It kinda galls me.
.
He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.
Instead of buying a PC comparable to the type of Mac he would like to buy he will build a DIY computer and a stolen copy of XP.
You honestly wonder why Apple would not put precious resources on the line to offer something for this type of person.
He does NOT have $2500, he WANTS upgradability.
I do not understand this logic. Upgradability and money are mutually exclusive.
Upgradability is exponential. If you want a substantial boost in performance you gotta pay substantial money for it.
Instead of buying a PC comparable to the type of Mac he would like to buy he will build a DIY computer and a stolen copy of XP.
You honestly wonder why Apple would not put precious resources on the line to offer something for this type of person.
Actually I can sorta understand it, if its what I'm thinking. It could be called 'I dislike Microsoft and PC makers, they make a crappy product, so I'm not going to give them any money." Doesn't mean that he feels the same way about Apple. I've known one or two people like this.
I do not understand this logic. Upgradability and money are mutually exclusive.
Upgradability is exponential. If you want a substantial boost in performance you gotta pay substantial money for it.
Doesn't really make any sense, as stated anyway. Logic doesn't have anything to do with it. And whoever told you that customers are logical in any case?
No, consumers think in terms of NEEDS. The guys' budget was such-and-such, so he NEEDED a computer that fit it. And for what he was doing (sound editing) he NEEDED a computer with expandability. Not so hard to understand, is it?
Que sera sera.
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He HAS a monitor, he WANTS upgradability. Therefore, laptops, imacs, and mac mini's wont do.
He does NOT have $2500, therefore, a Mac Pro won't do.
Now, he wants to buy a new computer. Apple sells nothing meeting the 3 simple requirements I mentioned earlier. He'll be switching to a homebuilt PC running a pirated copy of window XP corporate in probably 2 months.…
Yes! that's exactly what he wants, but he wants it in 'tower' form. He'd even be willing to pay $1000 for the 2ghz model (more than it's worth).
As I said before, "I just find it suspect when someone who has been driving a Bug is going to build his own Corvette because the Porsche is too expensive. "That'll teach you, Dr. Ing!"
Or are we to expect that Dr. Ing should build Corvette Bugs so that our 'friends' could destroy his Porsches?
Why doesn't your friend should just go out and steal a MacPro and install his pirated copy of XP on it? He could save himself a thousand dollars that he probably needs for bail money now.