It would br nice to see what retailers are on the "Monthly Panel" and to see which ones that were among the others that were excluded.
The more I think about this, the more I get the feeling it's part of a marketing campaign. Without full disclosure, what's to stop NPD from taking the top 10 Zune performing retailers and making that the panel.
Yep without full disclosure of the retailers that were included, and the ones excluded, then this is just pure conjecture and BS!
How about the fact that they are one of the largest companies in this area, and they have many clients relying on their data who would drop them like a stone if what you said was true?
Tragic though, I can't help but feel *some* sympathy for SanDisk (they'll be alright with their good storage products), but iRiver, Creative especially, and who knows who else (I don't care because my first mp3 player was some china/taiwan rubbish a year later I bought an iPod mini thank the gods... now I have my "iPhone") so anyway....... good luck you other companies, Micro has come to Shaft you. \
Thank you for the post. I was wondering how many Zunes may be returned after consumers tried to use them. Going to be very interesting how many horrible experiences there will be Christmas day.
Gawds, it could be one of those scar-you-for-life childhood/ teenagehood experiences, 21st century style. When you open your present and.... OMFG it's a ZUNE !!! WTF ??? Then the humiliation of using it around your friends when they've all got iPod nanos and shuffles. I may not be a father yet, or be a good one, but at least my one redeeming point if I ever get to be a father (while mp3 players are still around), will be that I got my kid an iPod instead of a Zune for Christmas. Unless my kid was really twisted, and wanted a Zune because his cool friends are all anti-iPod.... Arhghgh parenting is such a bloody mess.!!!!
Its amazing you actually posted this, but hey its an Apple website so what do I expect....man I sure hope they figure out how to tie this thing into the Xbox360 fast or else ....Hell I did streaming from my Zune player to my xbox360 over thanksgiving...made playlists of good dinner music, had home movies playing as the music was playing and went into my pictures folder after that....it was real tough too. 3 check boxes and an OK
I think realistically there's no way in HELL that iPods will be tied in to xbox360, certainly not at this stage. AFAIK, and I guess depends what exactly we are talking about in terms of "tied in".
Anyways the iPod and Macs and iTV and perhaps iPhone, other products, will be strong enough an ecosystem going into 2007, and Apple has largely moved on its own momentum for most of this decade, setting up the ties with music and tv show companies, and now movies are close, Steve Jobs just needs to work a bit more RDF magic with the studio bigwigs.
The xbox360 will be "held back" enough, or "held in check" by the Wii and PS3, alongside the PS2 momentum.
Apple has learnt its lesson from the arrogance it had with the PowerPC. They'll be more nimble, and they are running a very good ship right now. My 2 cents.
I think realistically there's no way in HELL that iPods will be tied in to xbox360, certainly not at this stage. AFAIK, and I guess depends what exactly we are talking about in terms of "tied in".
Anyways the iPod and Macs and iTV and perhaps iPhone, other products, will be strong enough an ecosystem going into 2007, and Apple has largely moved on its own momentum for most of this decade, setting up the ties with music and tv show companies, and now movies are close, Steve Jobs just needs to work a bit more RDF magic with the studio bigwigs.
The xbox360 will be "held back" enough, or "held in check" by the Wii and PS3, alongside the PS2 momentum.
Apple has learnt its lesson from the arrogance it had with the PowerPC. They'll be more nimble, and they are running a very good ship right now. My 2 cents.
I seem to remember MS talking about the 360 being "compatable" with the iPod. I don't remember exactly what that meant, but I do remember MS making a public statement about it, saying that they though it was important that the XBox work with it.
Its amazing you actually posted this, but hey its an Apple website so what do I expect.
I don't know what you expect. I read your post, and I don't even know what your point is (I was able to sense some anger issues though.)
OK. Wow, the Zune works with an xBox. And? That's not what I was talking about.
I was talking about subverting the iPod from below, side, or whatever. Microsoft shouldn't have to think twice about this. I was saying they could've damaged the iPod seriously without even trying.
Instead, they are going head to head with the iPod and they're going to lose. Badly.
Instead, Microsoft literally tries to recreate the iPod story from stage one. They go ahead and create a big, clunky version with a 30GB HDD (which is actually a loss leader...so that's not like the iPod story). We may expect flash versions in the future, but why when that is Apple's most lucrative and largest market?
I was simply expressing my incredulity at Microsoft's club-footed, ham-fisted, bone-headedness. They can sure as hell weld bits of technology together, and they can sure as hell lose money on a product like no one else. But they seem organizationally incapable of doing anything with subtlety, elegance, and grace. (If they could, maybe their monopolistic arrogance would be easier to swallow.) Everything with them is an 800-lb gorilla swinging an oversized mallet while riding a pink elephant dancing with a bull in a china shop.
You're right in one sense. This is an Apple-centric website. I should be more than aware of Microsoft's track record and modus operandi. But sometimes...sometimes...they still manage to surprise and boggle the mind...
I thought this was Appleinsider, not SELL-OUT ZUNEsider... enough of the ZUNE comments. NOBODY CARES, particularly me... the statistics are pointless... the Zune is worthless... stop wasting web space talking about the zune.
thanks for the passion, you're right i don't care, i'd never buy it i tell people not to buy non apple mp3...i sold at least 5 additional ipods stearing people to the best. the zune is ilrelavent
and all this hubub is nothing more than shills pushing an inferior product. gee for 1 hour the zune was #2, does anyone have the return and keep rate???
at your suggestion i will now not use that word again on AI...
How about the fact that they are one of the largest companies in this area, and they have many clients relying on their data who would drop them like a stone if what you said was true?
I agree that it is extremely unlikely. I just don't trust an "end result" number thrown out there with nothing to back it up.
In the Post-Enron era, I don't have any faith in companies doing the right thing for themselves or their customers (even Apple, i.e. stock irregularities).
Look how many customers that Microsoft has and they certainly have done many things worse than what I have described.
I certainly can't dismiss the idea of Marketing Research for hire, where you get the results you pay for. Would it be worth a couple of million USD to Microsoft for the largest retail tracker to say that Zune stormed out of the gate and vaulted into 2nd place in the US? Could be.
If the research data is never published, just the paid for results, how would NPD's other customers catch wind of this, or get upset by it?
edit: Excuse my grammar and spelling, I am a prime example of the US public school system.
I agree that it is extremely unlikely. I just don't trust an "end result" number thrown out there with nothing to back it up.
In the Post-Enron era, I don't have any faith in companies doing the right thing for themselves or their customers (even Apple, i.e. stock irregularities).
Look how many customers that Microsoft has and they certainly have done many things worse than what I have described.
I certainly can't dismiss the idea of Marketing Research for hire, where you get the results you pay for. Would it be worth a couple of million USD to Microsoft for the largest retail tracker to say that Zune stormed out of the gate and vaulted into 2nd place in the US? Could be.
If the research data is never published, just the paid for results, how would NPD's other customers catch wind of this, or get upset by it?
edit: Excuse my grammar and spelling, I am a prime example of the US public school system.
Since you know that there is nothing to back it up, we can assume that you have bought, paid for, and read, the entire report?
Since you know that there is nothing to back it up, we can assume that you have bought, paid for, and read, the entire report?
Huh?
I am having trouble interpreting your (somewhat edgy, methinks) response to kresh. How did his hedged "I certainly can't dismiss the idea...." become your strident "Since you know...."?
I am having trouble interpreting your (somewhat edgy, methinks) response to kresh. How did his hedged "I certainly can't dismiss the idea...." become your strident "Since you know...."?
It wasn't the "I can't dismiss the idea" That I was responding to. It was the: "with nothing to back it up." remark that I was responding to.
It simply can't be said that there is nothing to back it up unless you have read a report that is expensive, and is intended for commercial customers. If someone is willing to buy that report, and comes back here and says that after reading, and thinking about it, that there was nothing to back up the conclusions, then fine. Otherwise, it can't be said.
Can you say that a book you haven't read, or even seen the reviews to, was good or bad, based on reading the synopsis on the back cover? I can't.
Comments
It would br nice to see what retailers are on the "Monthly Panel" and to see which ones that were among the others that were excluded.
The more I think about this, the more I get the feeling it's part of a marketing campaign. Without full disclosure, what's to stop NPD from taking the top 10 Zune performing retailers and making that the panel.
Yep without full disclosure of the retailers that were included, and the ones excluded, then this is just pure conjecture and BS!
How about the fact that they are one of the largest companies in this area, and they have many clients relying on their data who would drop them like a stone if what you said was true?
I'm confused. How exactly are you comparing an overall marketshare of an item to a percentage of sales in qauantity for a given time frame?
If you wrote that a bit differently, it would be easier to understand the question. I'm not sure what you consider Amazon's numbers to represent.
If you mean that they represent "a percentage of sales in qauantity for a given time frame?", that's is EXACTLY what marketshare means.
How would this have changed the fact that iPod was #1 and Zune was #2?
By percentage of sales. Perhaps the Zune would have been 6% instead of 8%.
The Zune is brown!!!1! Like poo!!11
They should have tied the thing to the 360 from the beginning.
I believe they did, but failed to mention that in the ads themselves.
Thank you for the post. I was wondering how many Zunes may be returned after consumers tried to use them. Going to be very interesting how many horrible experiences there will be Christmas day.
Gawds, it could be one of those scar-you-for-life childhood/ teenagehood experiences, 21st century style. When you open your present and.... OMFG it's a ZUNE !!! WTF ??? Then the humiliation of using it around your friends when they've all got iPod nanos and shuffles. I may not be a father yet, or be a good one, but at least my one redeeming point if I ever get to be a father (while mp3 players are still around), will be that I got my kid an iPod instead of a Zune for Christmas. Unless my kid was really twisted, and wanted a Zune because his cool friends are all anti-iPod.... Arhghgh parenting is such a bloody mess.!!!!
Its amazing you actually posted this, but hey its an Apple website so what do I expect....man I sure hope they figure out how to tie this thing into the Xbox360 fast or else
I think realistically there's no way in HELL that iPods will be tied in to xbox360, certainly not at this stage. AFAIK, and I guess depends what exactly we are talking about in terms of "tied in".
Anyways the iPod and Macs and iTV and perhaps iPhone, other products, will be strong enough an ecosystem going into 2007, and Apple has largely moved on its own momentum for most of this decade, setting up the ties with music and tv show companies, and now movies are close, Steve Jobs just needs to work a bit more RDF magic with the studio bigwigs.
The xbox360 will be "held back" enough, or "held in check" by the Wii and PS3, alongside the PS2 momentum.
Apple has learnt its lesson from the arrogance it had with the PowerPC. They'll be more nimble, and they are running a very good ship right now.
I think realistically there's no way in HELL that iPods will be tied in to xbox360, certainly not at this stage. AFAIK, and I guess depends what exactly we are talking about in terms of "tied in".
Anyways the iPod and Macs and iTV and perhaps iPhone, other products, will be strong enough an ecosystem going into 2007, and Apple has largely moved on its own momentum for most of this decade, setting up the ties with music and tv show companies, and now movies are close, Steve Jobs just needs to work a bit more RDF magic with the studio bigwigs.
The xbox360 will be "held back" enough, or "held in check" by the Wii and PS3, alongside the PS2 momentum.
Apple has learnt its lesson from the arrogance it had with the PowerPC. They'll be more nimble, and they are running a very good ship right now.
I seem to remember MS talking about the 360 being "compatable" with the iPod. I don't remember exactly what that meant, but I do remember MS making a public statement about it, saying that they though it was important that the XBox work with it.
Its amazing you actually posted this, but hey its an Apple website so what do I expect.
I don't know what you expect. I read your post, and I don't even know what your point is (I was able to sense some anger issues though.)
OK. Wow, the Zune works with an xBox. And? That's not what I was talking about.
I was talking about subverting the iPod from below, side, or whatever. Microsoft shouldn't have to think twice about this. I was saying they could've damaged the iPod seriously without even trying.
Instead, they are going head to head with the iPod and they're going to lose. Badly.
Instead, Microsoft literally tries to recreate the iPod story from stage one. They go ahead and create a big, clunky version with a 30GB HDD (which is actually a loss leader...so that's not like the iPod story). We may expect flash versions in the future, but why when that is Apple's most lucrative and largest market?
I was simply expressing my incredulity at Microsoft's club-footed, ham-fisted, bone-headedness. They can sure as hell weld bits of technology together, and they can sure as hell lose money on a product like no one else. But they seem organizationally incapable of doing anything with subtlety, elegance, and grace. (If they could, maybe their monopolistic arrogance would be easier to swallow.) Everything with them is an 800-lb gorilla swinging an oversized mallet while riding a pink elephant dancing with a bull in a china shop.
You're right in one sense. This is an Apple-centric website. I should be more than aware of Microsoft's track record and modus operandi. But sometimes...sometimes...they still manage to surprise and boggle the mind...
I thought this was Appleinsider, not SELL-OUT ZUNEsider... enough of the ZUNE comments. NOBODY CARES, particularly me... the statistics are pointless... the Zune is worthless... stop wasting web space talking about the zune.
thanks for the passion, you're right i don't care, i'd never buy it i tell people not to buy non apple mp3...i sold at least 5 additional ipods stearing people to the best. the zune is ilrelavent
and all this hubub is nothing more than shills pushing an inferior product. gee for 1 hour the zune was #2, does anyone have the return and keep rate???
at your suggestion i will now not use that word again on AI...
The Zune is brown!!!1! Like poo!!11
I am intrigued. Something like 418 out of your 419 posts have said the same thing. And I have no doubt you'll say it again.
What gives? You OK?
Everything with [MSFT] is an 800-lb gorilla swinging an oversized mallet while riding a pink elephant dancing with a bull in a china shop.
Touche. Can I quote you?
I am intrigued. Something like 418 out of your 419 posts have said the same thing. And I have no doubt you'll say it again. What gives? You OK?
ROFL
Touche. Can I quote you?
With compliments!
How about the fact that they are one of the largest companies in this area, and they have many clients relying on their data who would drop them like a stone if what you said was true?
I agree that it is extremely unlikely. I just don't trust an "end result" number thrown out there with nothing to back it up.
In the Post-Enron era, I don't have any faith in companies doing the right thing for themselves or their customers (even Apple, i.e. stock irregularities).
Look how many customers that Microsoft has and they certainly have done many things worse than what I have described.
I certainly can't dismiss the idea of Marketing Research for hire, where you get the results you pay for. Would it be worth a couple of million USD to Microsoft for the largest retail tracker to say that Zune stormed out of the gate and vaulted into 2nd place in the US? Could be.
If the research data is never published, just the paid for results, how would NPD's other customers catch wind of this, or get upset by it?
edit: Excuse my grammar and spelling, I am a prime example of the US public school system.
I agree that it is extremely unlikely. I just don't trust an "end result" number thrown out there with nothing to back it up.
In the Post-Enron era, I don't have any faith in companies doing the right thing for themselves or their customers (even Apple, i.e. stock irregularities).
Look how many customers that Microsoft has and they certainly have done many things worse than what I have described.
I certainly can't dismiss the idea of Marketing Research for hire, where you get the results you pay for. Would it be worth a couple of million USD to Microsoft for the largest retail tracker to say that Zune stormed out of the gate and vaulted into 2nd place in the US? Could be.
If the research data is never published, just the paid for results, how would NPD's other customers catch wind of this, or get upset by it?
edit: Excuse my grammar and spelling, I am a prime example of the US public school system.
Since you know that there is nothing to back it up, we can assume that you have bought, paid for, and read, the entire report?
Since you know that there is nothing to back it up, we can assume that you have bought, paid for, and read, the entire report?
Huh?
I am having trouble interpreting your (somewhat edgy, methinks) response to kresh. How did his hedged "I certainly can't dismiss the idea...." become your strident "Since you know...."?
Huh?
I am having trouble interpreting your (somewhat edgy, methinks) response to kresh. How did his hedged "I certainly can't dismiss the idea...." become your strident "Since you know...."?
It wasn't the "I can't dismiss the idea" That I was responding to. It was the: "with nothing to back it up." remark that I was responding to.
It simply can't be said that there is nothing to back it up unless you have read a report that is expensive, and is intended for commercial customers. If someone is willing to buy that report, and comes back here and says that after reading, and thinking about it, that there was nothing to back up the conclusions, then fine. Otherwise, it can't be said.
Can you say that a book you haven't read, or even seen the reviews to, was good or bad, based on reading the synopsis on the back cover? I can't.
It wasn't the "I can't dismiss the idea" That I was responding to. It was the: "with nothing to back it up." remark that I was responding to.
Ah..... now I see. My apologies, sir.