That's just another example of Sony looking out for Sony...
Of the three Apple is most consumer friendly (except on price where MS wins).
But I was speaking from a studio perspective rather than consumer perspective. Playsforsure is one where MS royally shafted an entire third party ecosystem to further their own strategic goals of competing with Sony and Apple by releasing an incompatible Zune.
DRM is something the studios favor anyway...so the root kit fiasco is neutral to them I would guess. A plus because Sony has their same concerns...a minus that they got caught and there was some DRM backlash.
Yep, that is exactly my situation too. I was planning on buying a blu-ray player around Christmas, especially if sales or price drops materialize. But now I'm not sure. I'll probably wait another 6 months and see how things play out.
You and a bunch of other folks. In some ways this helps Blu-Ray (PS3 will continue to sell regardless) but mostly it just hurts HD adoption as a whole.
On the plus side, its a gain for Apple. If they can finally shake out 720p downloads on iTunes while the fiasco continues the whole physical HD thing might end up like SACD/DVDA as a niche product.
The only way I'm getting a HD player is when the war is over or its included in some other hardware I buy (laptop, Mac Mini, ATV v2, XBox 360 or PS3) as a gimme.
Transformers director says no to sequel over HD DVD Blu-ray spat
Quote:
Michael Bay not happy about format support or lack of it
21 August 2007 14:12 GMT - Michael Bay, the director of Hollywood blockbusters such as The Rock and Bad Boys, has waded into the HD DVD Blu-ray format war by saying that he will not sign up to direct Transformers 2 because of Paramount's move to only support HD DVD.
"I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me!" Bay said in a forum posting on his official webite.
The move is thought to be the first time a director has openly criticised a studio for its choice of what formats it releases its movies on.
Industry experts Pocket-lint spoke to are seeing it as a brave move by Bay, and something that could cause problems for the studio if other high profile directors followed suit.
Even Michael Bay can see Paramount's move was ill advised and the wrong thing to do.
It would be interesting if more directors follow suit, and Paramount finds itself in a new twist of problems.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
Transformers director says no to sequel over HD DVD Blu-ray spat
Even Michael Bay can see Paramount's move was ill advised and the wrong thing to do.
It would be interesting if more directors follow suit, and Paramount finds itself in a new twist of problems.
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice.
Confusing the format war further means giving both MS and Apple the time to promote digital distribution vs physical distribution.
The shift to digital distribution of films is going to happen anyway.
We know this, the studios know this and the whole CE industry knows this.
However, it's not going to be commonplace for awhile and studios are using the interim to make some quick cash on discs. Even after the switch to DD, there will still be a market for disc purchasing (albeit a smaller one.)
The timing for Redmond and Cupertino's entry into HD distribution doesn't depend on HD disc adoption, it has much more to do with technical factors like 10-fold broadband speed increases and such.
Digital and Physical distribution will likely co-exist for a long while. Even now, the music industry has almost all product available digitally and still the CD persists as a distribution platform.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
Frank777 has a point. Where was Michael Bay when Disney/Fox/MGM/Columbia and Lionsgate announced Exclusive support. Bay needs to realize he's not THAT good of a Director. You could insert 10 other Directors and they'd do an equal job to what Bay can do. Paramount kicked Tom Cruise to the curb...Michael Bay would be 10x as easy.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
But it still makes no sense.
From the quote shown, Bay isn't arguing that Blu-Ray was a better format. ("They were progressive by having two formats.") He's arguing that the film should have been released in BOTH formats.
I'd respect the opinion if he said he needed extra storage or some other Blu-Ray feature to make a better movie. But all he seems to be saying is that he's ticked off that Paramount didn't choose his choice of shiny plastic frisbee, so he's not going to play with them at all.
I think this is blow to High Definition home media as a whole. I don't think either HD-DVD, or Blu-Ray is going to get off the ground now. The only thing that could help now is for a unified format which is not going to happen. What a catastrophic move against consumers.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
"making a stand for movie watchers everywhere"?.... They aren't HiDif geeks. Most will be happy with SD-DVD and I just don't see how this niche HD-DVD/Blu-Ray formats can cause such retarded out burst from a movie director. Please link the source......... if credible.
You boys twist it so hard that some may believe Paramount will only release HD-DVD version......... SD-DVD is still here and will be for long time.
That is the most retarded thing I have heard in a long time.
So he's not going to make a movie because the studio doesn't favour his choice of optical media?
Does he also stipulate whether they use Firewire or USB 2.0 for their hard drives?
Seriously people, while this format war is interesting, it's really just about two different kinds of shiny plastic frisbees.
Read what he writes! He's not pissed because he favours Blu-ray - he's pissed because his movie isn't released on all formats and locking out 2/3 of the HD crowd.
"making a stand for movie watchers everywhere"?.... They aren't HiDif geeks. Most will be happy with SD-DVD and I just don't see how this niche HD-DVD/Blu-Ray formats can cause such retarded out burst from a movie director. Please link the source......... if credible.
You boys twist it so hard that some may believe Paramount will only release HD-DVD version......... SD-DVD is still here and will be for long time.
You boys?
Seems like you must have an axe to grind. If you hadn't noticed, I'm not even a proponent of Blu-ray.
How did the topic get so vicious anyway? Why such hate for Bay and apparently others here in this thread?
The shift to digital distribution of films is going to happen anyway.
We know this, the studios know this and the whole CE industry knows this.
However, it's not going to be commonplace for awhile and studios are using the interim to make some quick cash on discs. Even after the switch to DD, there will still be a market for disc purchasing (albeit a smaller one.)
The timing for Redmond and Cupertino's entry into HD distribution doesn't depend on HD disc adoption, it has much more to do with technical factors like 10-fold broadband speed increases and such.
Digital and Physical distribution will likely co-exist for a long while. Even now, the music industry has almost all product available digitally and still the CD persists as a distribution platform.
True, but the window will be shorter for BR/HD-DVD and uptake on DD will occur faster if the format war persists. 10-fold broadband speed increases are here now that the RBOCs have stopped dragging their heels. Price is still high but dropping and really...15 Mbps for $49.99 ain't bad. $175 for 30 MBps is pretty insane but that's more or less a 10 fold increase on the 3 Mbps we got from cable a few years ago (or top end DSL today). Deployment is spreading as rapidly as the RBOCs can afford to lay fiber.
I guess the point is for the studios the format war is dumb. The only winners are Apple, Microsoft, AT&T and cable companies and to a lesser extent Sony and Nintendo because they too have a potential DD base.
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice.
I am sure he meant that if he goes, others may/will too. If there aren't directors (or at least good ones) to make the movie, then you don't have a movie.
Frank777, I don't see where Michael Bay says he has a hard on for Blu-Ray, he wants it on all formats (or at least the ones selling better). He isn't just sticking up for HDgeeks, I was going to buy Transformers, now I won't. I don't want a SD version, I want it on Blu-Ray. I truly hope there is more backlash to all this money grubbing.
My best guess. Sales go 50:50 this Christmas between blue ray and HD DVD. This will pretty much assure HD DVD survival. Then the studios will all go neutral and offer titles in both formats. Blue Ray could have got the knock out this year at Christmas. I don't see that now.
There will be NO winner.
Who knows. One possible outcome is it could delay blu-ray's victory. Or, both could survive...but I don't see that at all. If no one wins, they both lose.
Of course, this could actually shorten the format war. Imagine if a year from now sales haven't changed and blu-ray is still winning 2 to 1. That will be the end for HD-DVD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam'ron
It doesn't mean HD-DVD players go into Blu-Ray owners homes, it mean more SD purchases until things change (or just rental, thus affecting sales negatively). I will continue to purchase Blu-Ray and rip/burn the dvd versions of movies I would have bought on Blu-Ray but cannot. I wonder how many people are in that boat. Weren't the studios trying to end piracy? This neutrality won't help, who the hell wants to buy two players?
Agreed. People who own blu-ray players aren't going to buy HD-DVD players now. It's just going to stop HD adoption..or slow it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777
I'm telling you...the conspiracy theory is interesting, but totally unproven.
What the Blu-Ray boys have always failed to grasp is that Blu-Ray is Sony's baby, and while Sony is a CE maker, they are also a major movie studio.
From a business standpoint, it has never made sense for Sony's competitors - such as Paramount, to have their business tied in such an intimate way with a rival studio. In effect, a high-def blockbuster for Paramount would have the secondary effect of paying disc royalties to one of their biggest competitors.
This has always been Universal's objection to the Blu-Ray format. While I'm sure there was a financial component, I think Paramount realized HD-DVD was in dire straits, stared into the abyss of being solely tied to Blu-Ray and then decided to jump ship.
$150 million. That's the rumor. Look it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Um no. There comes a point where owners are going to see $149 HD DVD players and think "That's only 6 movies" and ante up. You can continue to prolong your psychosis by clinging stubbornly to Blu-ray dogma but some of us that bought HDTV want to watch HD content and if that means two players then as long as they aren't cost prohibitive. Continue to believe that the rest of the world gives a shit about owning only one player.
I won't do that until I am convinced there is a winner. If that's HD-DVD, so be it. I'll say this...at least it will be interesting now. I was starting to get bored with the format war.
Read what he writes! He's not pissed because he favours Blu-ray - he's pissed because his movie isn't released on all formats and locking out 2/3 of the HD crowd.
But by almost everyone's calculations, that's 2/3 of almost nothing. Only early, early adopters have bought players at this point.
Even some of the principal advocates of either platform in this thread haven't bought a player yet.
While Blu-Ray advocates are couching their disapproval of Paramount's choice in terms of feeling sorry for potential sales lost, I suspect that what they are really worried about is that Toshiba has pulled off a coup here.
With easier to understand consumer branding coupled with much lower prices, HD-DVD now has a shot at winning the game outright.
It's still early to see if they can follow through though.
Focus on the other half of the sentence you quoted.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
I understand your point, but when we certainly weren't hearing a lot of that sentiment when titles were being announced exclusive to Blu-Ray.
Love it or hate it, yesterday's events did re-invigorate this whole debate, didn't it?
Comments
Errr... rootkit?
That's just another example of Sony looking out for Sony...
Of the three Apple is most consumer friendly (except on price where MS wins).
But I was speaking from a studio perspective rather than consumer perspective. Playsforsure is one where MS royally shafted an entire third party ecosystem to further their own strategic goals of competing with Sony and Apple by releasing an incompatible Zune.
DRM is something the studios favor anyway...so the root kit fiasco is neutral to them I would guess. A plus because Sony has their same concerns...a minus that they got caught and there was some DRM backlash.
Vinea
Yep, that is exactly my situation too. I was planning on buying a blu-ray player around Christmas, especially if sales or price drops materialize. But now I'm not sure. I'll probably wait another 6 months and see how things play out.
You and a bunch of other folks. In some ways this helps Blu-Ray (PS3 will continue to sell regardless) but mostly it just hurts HD adoption as a whole.
On the plus side, its a gain for Apple. If they can finally shake out 720p downloads on iTunes while the fiasco continues the whole physical HD thing might end up like SACD/DVDA as a niche product.
The only way I'm getting a HD player is when the war is over or its included in some other hardware I buy (laptop, Mac Mini, ATV v2, XBox 360 or PS3) as a gimme.
Of that set, only the 360 is a likely purchase.
Vinea
But I was speaking from a studio perspective rather than consumer perspective.
Ah, that makes much more sense now. I was reading it from a consumer perspective and not from a studio perspective.
Michael Bay not happy about format support or lack of it
21 August 2007 14:12 GMT - Michael Bay, the director of Hollywood blockbusters such as The Rock and Bad Boys, has waded into the HD DVD Blu-ray format war by saying that he will not sign up to direct Transformers 2 because of Paramount's move to only support HD DVD.
"I want people to see my movies in the best formats possible. For them to deny people who have Blu-ray sucks! They were progressive by having two formats. No Transformers 2 for me!" Bay said in a forum posting on his official webite.
The move is thought to be the first time a director has openly criticised a studio for its choice of what formats it releases its movies on.
Industry experts Pocket-lint spoke to are seeing it as a brave move by Bay, and something that could cause problems for the studio if other high profile directors followed suit.
Even Michael Bay can see Paramount's move was ill advised and the wrong thing to do.
It would be interesting if more directors follow suit, and Paramount finds itself in a new twist of problems.
Transformers director says no to sequel over HD DVD Blu-ray spat...
That is the most retarded thing I have heard in a long time.
So he's not going to make a movie because the studio doesn't favour his choice of optical media?
Does he also stipulate whether they use Firewire or USB 2.0 for their hard drives?
Seriously people, while this format war is interesting, it's really just about two different kinds of shiny plastic frisbees.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
Transformers director says no to sequel over HD DVD Blu-ray spat
Even Michael Bay can see Paramount's move was ill advised and the wrong thing to do.
It would be interesting if more directors follow suit, and Paramount finds itself in a new twist of problems.
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice.
Confusing the format war further means giving both MS and Apple the time to promote digital distribution vs physical distribution.
The shift to digital distribution of films is going to happen anyway.
We know this, the studios know this and the whole CE industry knows this.
However, it's not going to be commonplace for awhile and studios are using the interim to make some quick cash on discs. Even after the switch to DD, there will still be a market for disc purchasing (albeit a smaller one.)
The timing for Redmond and Cupertino's entry into HD distribution doesn't depend on HD disc adoption, it has much more to do with technical factors like 10-fold broadband speed increases and such.
Digital and Physical distribution will likely co-exist for a long while. Even now, the music industry has almost all product available digitally and still the CD persists as a distribution platform.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
Frank777 has a point. Where was Michael Bay when Disney/Fox/MGM/Columbia and Lionsgate announced Exclusive support. Bay needs to realize he's not THAT good of a Director. You could insert 10 other Directors and they'd do an equal job to what Bay can do. Paramount kicked Tom Cruise to the curb...Michael Bay would be 10x as easy.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
But it still makes no sense.
From the quote shown, Bay isn't arguing that Blu-Ray was a better format. ("They were progressive by having two formats.") He's arguing that the film should have been released in BOTH formats.
I'd respect the opinion if he said he needed extra storage or some other Blu-Ray feature to make a better movie. But all he seems to be saying is that he's ticked off that Paramount didn't choose his choice of shiny plastic frisbee, so he's not going to play with them at all.
So in your mind, it is "retarded" to stand up for others? Go stand in the corner until you can play nice.
Bay is apparently making a stand for movie watchers everywhere. If other directors would do the same, the media companies wouldn't be jerking us around like they are.
"making a stand for movie watchers everywhere"?.... They aren't HiDif geeks. Most will be happy with SD-DVD and I just don't see how this niche HD-DVD/Blu-Ray formats can cause such retarded out burst from a movie director. Please link the source......... if credible.
You boys twist it so hard that some may believe Paramount will only release HD-DVD version......... SD-DVD is still here and will be for long time.
That is the most retarded thing I have heard in a long time.
So he's not going to make a movie because the studio doesn't favour his choice of optical media?
Does he also stipulate whether they use Firewire or USB 2.0 for their hard drives?
Seriously people, while this format war is interesting, it's really just about two different kinds of shiny plastic frisbees.
Read what he writes! He's not pissed because he favours Blu-ray - he's pissed because his movie isn't released on all formats and locking out 2/3 of the HD crowd.
"making a stand for movie watchers everywhere"?.... They aren't HiDif geeks. Most will be happy with SD-DVD and I just don't see how this niche HD-DVD/Blu-Ray formats can cause such retarded out burst from a movie director. Please link the source......... if credible.
You boys twist it so hard that some may believe Paramount will only release HD-DVD version......... SD-DVD is still here and will be for long time.
You boys?
Seems like you must have an axe to grind. If you hadn't noticed, I'm not even a proponent of Blu-ray.
How did the topic get so vicious anyway? Why such hate for Bay and apparently others here in this thread?
The shift to digital distribution of films is going to happen anyway.
We know this, the studios know this and the whole CE industry knows this.
However, it's not going to be commonplace for awhile and studios are using the interim to make some quick cash on discs. Even after the switch to DD, there will still be a market for disc purchasing (albeit a smaller one.)
The timing for Redmond and Cupertino's entry into HD distribution doesn't depend on HD disc adoption, it has much more to do with technical factors like 10-fold broadband speed increases and such.
Digital and Physical distribution will likely co-exist for a long while. Even now, the music industry has almost all product available digitally and still the CD persists as a distribution platform.
True, but the window will be shorter for BR/HD-DVD and uptake on DD will occur faster if the format war persists. 10-fold broadband speed increases are here now that the RBOCs have stopped dragging their heels. Price is still high but dropping and really...15 Mbps for $49.99 ain't bad. $175 for 30 MBps is pretty insane but that's more or less a 10 fold increase on the 3 Mbps we got from cable a few years ago (or top end DSL today). Deployment is spreading as rapidly as the RBOCs can afford to lay fiber.
I guess the point is for the studios the format war is dumb. The only winners are Apple, Microsoft, AT&T and cable companies and to a lesser extent Sony and Nintendo because they too have a potential DD base.
Vinea
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice.
I am sure he meant that if he goes, others may/will too. If there aren't directors (or at least good ones) to make the movie, then you don't have a movie.
Frank777, I don't see where Michael Bay says he has a hard on for Blu-Ray, he wants it on all formats (or at least the ones selling better). He isn't just sticking up for HDgeeks, I was going to buy Transformers, now I won't. I don't want a SD version, I want it on Blu-Ray. I truly hope there is more backlash to all this money grubbing.
My best guess. Sales go 50:50 this Christmas between blue ray and HD DVD. This will pretty much assure HD DVD survival. Then the studios will all go neutral and offer titles in both formats. Blue Ray could have got the knock out this year at Christmas. I don't see that now.
There will be NO winner.
Who knows. One possible outcome is it could delay blu-ray's victory. Or, both could survive...but I don't see that at all. If no one wins, they both lose.
Of course, this could actually shorten the format war. Imagine if a year from now sales haven't changed and blu-ray is still winning 2 to 1. That will be the end for HD-DVD.
It doesn't mean HD-DVD players go into Blu-Ray owners homes, it mean more SD purchases until things change (or just rental, thus affecting sales negatively). I will continue to purchase Blu-Ray and rip/burn the dvd versions of movies I would have bought on Blu-Ray but cannot. I wonder how many people are in that boat. Weren't the studios trying to end piracy? This neutrality won't help, who the hell wants to buy two players?
Agreed. People who own blu-ray players aren't going to buy HD-DVD players now. It's just going to stop HD adoption..or slow it.
I'm telling you...the conspiracy theory is interesting, but totally unproven.
What the Blu-Ray boys have always failed to grasp is that Blu-Ray is Sony's baby, and while Sony is a CE maker, they are also a major movie studio.
From a business standpoint, it has never made sense for Sony's competitors - such as Paramount, to have their business tied in such an intimate way with a rival studio. In effect, a high-def blockbuster for Paramount would have the secondary effect of paying disc royalties to one of their biggest competitors.
This has always been Universal's objection to the Blu-Ray format. While I'm sure there was a financial component, I think Paramount realized HD-DVD was in dire straits, stared into the abyss of being solely tied to Blu-Ray and then decided to jump ship.
$150 million. That's the rumor. Look it up.
Um no. There comes a point where owners are going to see $149 HD DVD players and think "That's only 6 movies" and ante up. You can continue to prolong your psychosis by clinging stubbornly to Blu-ray dogma but some of us that bought HDTV want to watch HD content and if that means two players then as long as they aren't cost prohibitive. Continue to believe that the rest of the world gives a shit about owning only one player.
I won't do that until I am convinced there is a winner. If that's HD-DVD, so be it. I'll say this...at least it will be interesting now. I was starting to get bored with the format war.
Read what he writes! He's not pissed because he favours Blu-ray - he's pissed because his movie isn't released on all formats and locking out 2/3 of the HD crowd.
But by almost everyone's calculations, that's 2/3 of almost nothing. Only early, early adopters have bought players at this point.
Even some of the principal advocates of either platform in this thread haven't bought a player yet.
While Blu-Ray advocates are couching their disapproval of Paramount's choice in terms of feeling sorry for potential sales lost, I suspect that what they are really worried about is that Toshiba has pulled off a coup here.
With easier to understand consumer branding coupled with much lower prices, HD-DVD now has a shot at winning the game outright.
It's still early to see if they can follow through though.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
I understand your point, but when we certainly weren't hearing a lot of that sentiment when titles were being announced exclusive to Blu-Ray.
Love it or hate it, yesterday's events did re-invigorate this whole debate, didn't it?