Seems like you must have an axe to grind. If you hadn't noticed, I'm not even a proponent of Blu-ray.
How did the topic get so vicious anyway? Why such hate for Bay and apparently others here in this thread?
Nah... no axe...
I just thought people are over reacting as usual.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
Both you and Frank have voiced this sentiment.
I suppose it is true... but only if your exposure to the format war is exclusively a forum argument between a handful of fan-boys.
Out in the "normal" world, consumers don't like exclusive titles. You should see the rage on joe six pack's face when he discovers that half his favorite movies aren't available for his brand-new HD player.
It makes sense if he had a feeling the Transformers 2 wasn't his anyway. It was still an iffy thing whether he'd get Transformers 2 and he had been lobbying heavy for it. This way, if there's no movie or when it goes to someone else he doesn't lose face since he gave it up "on principle".
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
...Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain...
Note that the deal doesn't include Spielberg. Amusing thing about kicking Cruise to the curb is that it seems to have annoyed Spielberg too...and he can take his toys with him if going HD-DVD exclusive with Dreamworks is yet another annoyance after the other annoyances...like Paramount's criticism of Eastwoods marketing of Flags of Our Fathers and claiming Dreamgirls as a Paramount picture (which sure made Geffen really happy too).
If Paramount loses Dreamworks that $150M will be really stupid money because while it obviously won't be the KEY issue it would have been yet another annoyance to someone that doesn't have to put up with it since DreamWorks isn't sucking at the moment like it was in 2005.
Paramount wouldn't be in a happy place without Blades of Glory (*sigh*) and Transformers and Snider and Spielberg brought those to Paramount/DreamWorks. And Paramount doesn't own Shrek or anything out of DreamWorks Animation that...owns the name DreamWorks and isn't owned by Viacom. If Spielberg jumps likely DWA will move to a new distributor as well...and hey DWA got the $100M piece of the pie. Katzenberg > Grey.
Focus on the other half of the sentence you quoted.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
Well...no...exclusives are great if it ends the format war. If everyone went HD-DVD that would be as awesome as if everyone went Blu-Ray.
Going exclusive to continue the format war is not great.
If Toshiba actually gets to $99 this Xmas that would be great. But they aren't so who cares?
I really don't want to get back into this discussion but here goes...
The format wars continuing or getting thicker is good for consumers. The only bad it causes is for the people that have already purchased players... but they KNEW about the war before they purchased.
Blu-ray having a competitor forced them to start using better codecs, because hd-dvd did have (on average) slightly better quality (with less memory). HD-DVD upped (or is upping) to 50gb discs because of Blu-ray existing. Having two competitors in a market is nothing but good for consumers. Apple vs M$, Intel vs AMD, ATI vs Nvidia. Technology and innovation and performance goes around and around between these sets of companies. Each put pressure on the other to improve quality / user experience. Why is that a bad thing?
If anything HD-DVD improving will force Blu-ray marketers to suggestion more innovation instead of pocketing profit. Perhaps prices will be driven down more? $30 for a movie? Are you kidding me? I know there are sales on HD discs around 13-20 but the average cost of an hd movie is $25-$30. It's ridiculous and needs to change. I predict these two competing, the next step will be drops in pricing.
All I see in the future is dual format players. Kind of like DVD-R vs DVD+R. The original Pioneer dvd players couldn't read DVD+R discs. As a result of DVD-R and DVD+R being out, they drove each other's prices down... for media and players. They drove the prices lower than CD burners if you want to talk strictly burners.
If dual format players become more popular and their pricing improves, what would be so bad about having HD-DVD & Blu-ray sharing shelf space?
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
It was a good thing because all signs were pointing towards the choice of one format over the other, now there is a mixed bag again. No one wants that... except Microsoft.
Focus on the other half of the sentence you quoted.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
That's my point. I don't see either gaining enough traction now. It's a bad move on the consumer level. I don't see HIgh Definition home video getting off the ground in the mind of consumers at all now. A Unified HD/Blu-Ray Player for under $200 what these two are going to be waiting for b/c High Definition Home Video just took about ten steps backwards.
But by almost everyone's calculations, that's 2/3 of almost nothing. Only early, early adopters have bought players at this point.
Even some of the principal advocates of either platform in this thread haven't bought a player yet.
While Blu-Ray advocates are couching their disapproval of Paramount's choice in terms of feeling sorry for potential sales lost, I suspect that what they are really worried about is that Toshiba has pulled off a coup here.
With easier to understand consumer branding coupled with much lower prices, HD-DVD now has a shot at winning the game outright.
It's still early to see if they can follow through though.
Give me a break guys. Seriously. "Toshiba has pulled off a coup here." They "now have a shot at winning the game outright? Really? With one more studio on their side with which makes 2 exclusive studios compared to 5 exclusive studios on Blu-ray. Really? Give me some of what your smokin, cause they still don't have a shot at winning this outright, and here is the reason...
Consider this. Blu-ray has beaten HD DVD to a pulp all year long and that is without FOX and MGM. Sure the Paramount loss is bad for Blu-ray, but with one less studio, comes one more to the Blu-ray fold releasing 29 titles for this year alone with Fox. I think that the ratio of sales would have increased to like 3:1 or 3.5:1 in favor of Blu-ray with Paramount still on board, but by losing them, I still see Blu-ray sustaining a 2:1 to 2.5 to 1 advantage through the holidays. It may even get to 3:1 or 3.5:1 if Blu-ray standalones come closer to price parity with the HD DVD players. I can easily see this with $299 Blu-ray standalones and a $399 PS3. At $399, Sony would effectively double their 4 million Blu-ray players out there in a heartbeat.
So, to say that HD DVD has a shot at winning this reminds me of Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber...
Frank777: What are the chances of HD DVD winning this outright?
Marzy: Well, that's pretty difficult to say.
Frank: Hit me with it! I've come a long way and have read a lot of HD DVD propaganda, Marzy. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Marzy: Not good.
Frank777: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice
Do you understand how the industry works? Defections of one studio certainly don't equate to winning a war, get over your giddyness and see clearly for once.
And I'm so glad you brought up Spielberg, because it has been confirmed that he a huge supporter of Blu-ray...
Exclusive: Spielberg "Big Supporter" of Blu-ray, But Future High-Def Releases Uncertain
Confirming mounting speculation, we've got exclusive word this morning that Steven Spielberg is indeed "a big supporter" of Blu-ray, and that yesterday's carve out in the Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD announcement was designed to allow the legendary director to release future titles on Blu-ray.
With many of his early blockbusters distributed by Universal Pictures ('E.T.,' 'Jurassic Park' and 'Jaws,' among them), it was once assumed that the combination of Steven Spielberg's classic titles and Universal's exclusive HD DVD support would be one of format's biggest weapons against rival Blu-ray, but a series of developments have led many to speculate that perhaps Spielberg himself has other ideas.
The first hint of trouble for HD DVD came back in February when the HD DVD promo group issued a public apology to Spielberg after listing several of his titles in a "Coming Soon" list that was apparently never approved by the director.
Then, just last month came news that the very first Spielberg high-def title -- a 30th anniversary edition of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' -- would be released on Blu-ray, not HD DVD. (That release is due November 13, day and date with the standard-def DVD edition.)
Finally, yesterday's stunner of a Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD exclusivity press release included a conspicuous one line carve-out, stating that Spielberg's DreamWorks films would be exempt from the terms of the HD DVD exclusivity arrangement, opening the door to the possible future release of more recent Spielberg blockbusters on Blu-ray.
So what's the deal? We put that question to the source for all things Spielberg -- his longtime spokesman and DreamWorks marketing exec Marvin Levy. Speaking exclusively with High-Def Digest, Levy confirmed Spielberg's active support of Blu-ray with the selection of 'Close Encounters' for his next-gen debut.
"It was important to Steven that if any of his films were to be released [first] on high-definition, that it would be a classic," said Levy. "Steven is big supporter of Blu-ray, and chose 'Close Encounters' to be the first of his films on either format."
Spielberg approved the new high-def transfer made for the film, and among the Blu-ray's supplements is a new introduction recorded by the director specifically for the release, as well as a storyboard comparison.
Levy further clarified the Paramount/DreamWorks press release, saying that "...his movies, like 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'War of the Worlds,' are not included in that deal. They are not exclusive to HD DVD, nor [are they] planned for that format at this time.'"
Levy went on emphasize that beyond 'Close Encounters,' Spielberg has no other films in the high-def pipeline on either format. "At this moment, there are no plans for something further [on either format]. Anything in the future will be decided on a title-by-title basis. There certainly won't be more titles in 2007."
Hmm, ouch bud. Now, are you going to begin telling us how much Speilberg sucks now? Good luck on ever getting Jurrassic Park, Jaws, or Back to the Future there pal.
Michael Bay is a very good director BTW, the simple fact of his numerous blockbusters pretty much confirm this, no matter how you differ in opinion. Otherwise, his movies wouldn't sell.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
Well, hopefully this will help you undestand the difference...
Boy... crazy day today, huh? As you may have noticed, the site's been up and down today because of all the traffic, but it should level out again soon. Nothing like a format war to liven things up around here.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand," goes the quote. Abraham Lincoln, of course, was talking about the fledgling United States back in 1858, but his words apply surprisingly well today, when reflecting upon the current state of the high-definition format war.
On that note, we've got tons of follow-up e-mails and phone calls out this afternoon to the all various studios and industry observers associated with said format war. And I'll tell you, based on some of the conversations we've had today (both on and off-the-record) with insiders in both camps and in between, when it comes to this morning's high-def news, there's a LOT more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye. You have NO idea. If you think the situation is as cut and dried as the press releases (or Harry's entertaining latest post over at AICN, not to mention the 'talk backs' that follow it) would make it seem, you're kidding yourself. Hollywood's on fire right now - at least the studio home video portion of it. And the retailers... and the manufacturers...
Like it or not, things are going to get VERY interesting in the next few days and in the weeks ahead. You're going to see a lot of reports on all this in the media, like this one at the Wall Street Journal, in which DreamWorks chief Jeffrey Katzenberg basically acknowledges that his company received financial incentives to go HD-DVD exclusive - incentives which included "both cash payments and soft incentives such as marketing promotions" according to the story.
By the way, a quick side comment here. A number of HD-DVD fans have e-mailed us to cry fowl over our issue with Microsoft offering financial incentives to studios to go HD-DVD only, when (they say) Sony must surely be doing the same thing on the Blu-ray Disc side. Here's the difference, and it's why we continue to flag it: Sony pumping money to various studios and parties to promote Blu-ray Disc make logical sense to us. Toshiba doing the same thing to promote HD-DVD, that makes logical sense too. Sony was involved in creating Blu-ray and has a financial stake in it. Likewise, Toshiba created HD-DVD and has a financial stake there. Where does Microsoft's interests lie? Microsoft did not create HD-DVD. Until not so very long ago (prior to these formats coming to market), as they themselves acknowledge, they actually supported both formats. So why are they putting so much money into HD-DVD now? Not only are they putting money into HD-DVD, they're basically the only party that's keeping the format alive. Left to their own financial means, we find it hard to believe that Toshiba would be able to keep pricing its hardware so low - especially given the fact that they've had to adjust their sales projections for the format downward in recent months. And without the "financial incentives" offered by Microsoft, would ANY of the HD-DVD exclusive studios still be HD-DVD exclusive? We doubt it. So what does Microsoft have to gain from all this? That's the question that keeps sticking in our minds. By making these deals with the studios, aren't they getting exclusive access to new high-def transfers that they'll be able to turn around and offer on Xbox Live - transfers that they themselves are encoding in VC-1 for the studios at a discounted rate or even for free? And as we've said many times now, doesn't Microsoft's download service stand to gain if this format war continues long enough to discourage most consumers from adopting high-def discs at all? That's the difference between Sony and Microsoft - Sony is heavily supporting their own format for obvious reasons. Microsoft is heavily supporting someone else's format for their own reasons, some of which are obvious (VC-1, HDi) and some not so much.
Anyway, there are going to be lots of quotes from studio suits about all this high-def news in the next few days and weeks. Some of it will true and some will be bullshit, and much of it will be a combination both. Yeah, I know... a lot of you guys are as sick of reading about this format war as we are of writing about it. But you can bet there will be reaction to (and even fallout from) today's announcements, and lots more testy exchanges in the media between the two camps, and we're right in the thick of it. So watch this space, folks
Hmm, ouch bud. Now, are you going to begin telling us how much Speilberg sucks now? Good luck on ever getting Jurrassic Park, Jaws, or Back to the Future there pal.
Back to the Future is directed by Robert Zemeckis.
Michael Bay is a very good director BTW, the simple fact of his numerous blockbusters pretty much confirm this, no matter how you differ in opinion. Otherwise, his movies wouldn't sell.
You lost me, Marz. By this logic, Adam Sandler is a very good actor, Britney Spears is a very good musician, and Van Gogh was a horrendous failure of an artist.
Mainstream acceptance often has little to do with genuine quality.
Back to the Future is directed by Robert Zemeckis.
With Spielberg as one of the executive producers. And, like Jurassic Park and E.T., ironically one of the movies distributed by Universal Pictures but mainly produced by Amblin, Spielberg's company. It's a pretty sure bet no Amblin films will be on HD DVD in the foreseeable future.
As for the talk of universal players being the future, it's stupid. It's forcing people to go to two formats for no good reason. This is not comparable to DVD-R vs DVD+R. Those had the exact same functions, namely burning several gigabytes of data to a disk. Even today, I can still buy only DVD-R discs (and in fact I do) and not have a problem. If studios are going to stay exclusive forever, then there is no direct competition between the two because you really have no choice but to support both formats to get all the movies you want. The right way would have been to standardize on a single format, but unfortunately, those jackasses at MS got their grubby fingers into the mix again. Will somebody please nuke Redmond? It's obvious they have weapons of mass distraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloss
Mainstream acceptance often has little to do with genuine quality.
Except the studios care little about "quality." They'd much rather have $200 million gross than a billion praises. It's crass and it's commercial, but it's business and it's Hollywood.
As for the talk of universal players being the future, it's stupid. It's forcing people to go to two formats for no good reason. ....... The right way would have been to standardize on a single format, but unfortunately, those jackasses at MS got their grubby fingers into the mix again..
I don't think universal players are stupid at all. From a consumer standpoint it makes great sense to me. Do I care that it will cost the studios more to support two formats? Umm.... no. They're stupid for prolonging this and making the whole matter confusing to consumers. I say a pox on all the studios for the way they've handled this.
As for MS, no amount of pain, suffering and financial loss is too great for the way they've behaved.
I don't think universal players are stupid at all. From a consumer standpoint it makes great sense to me.
It makes no sense because it will never be as cheap as a single-format player. This isn't like DVD±R. These are two very different technologies and shoehorning both of them into one player costs big money, as the combo players have already shown. Is it good for the consumer to be forced to pay more for a player because the studios wanted to play games with each other?
It makes no sense because it will never be as cheap as a single-format player. This isn't like DVD±R. These are two very different technologies and shoehorning both of them into one player costs big money, as the combo players have already shown. Is it good for the consumer to be forced to pay more for a player because the studios wanted to play games with each other?
Well I would prefer to have a combo player rather than pick one or the other and be wrong. With MS now joining the fray in a major way it's hard to pick a winner. They are willing to loose BILLIONS of dollars just to win a fight. Who else can do that?
Well I would prefer to have a combo player rather than pick one or the other and be wrong. With MS now joining the fray in a major way it's hard to pick a winner. They are willing to loose BILLIONS of dollars just to win a fight. Who else can do that?
You run just as much of a risk of being stuck with the wrong format discs in the future with a combo player as you do with just committing to one format. Say you buy a combo player, and start buying films in both blu-ray and HD DVD; if and when one of the formats wins, the only place you're going to be able to play your extinct format discs is in that combo player you bought. Is that combo player going to last you the lifespan of the format? Probably not. Will there be combo players for sale in 5 years if one format dies? Nope. Your Mac, your game console, and your future DVD players will all utilize whichever format wins, and you'll have discs that are of the wrong format which won't play in any of them.
Unless neither format goes away (highly unlikely), a combo player still leaves you with unplayable discs in the future.
Comments
You boys?
Seems like you must have an axe to grind. If you hadn't noticed, I'm not even a proponent of Blu-ray.
How did the topic get so vicious anyway? Why such hate for Bay and apparently others here in this thread?
Nah... no axe...
I just thought people are over reacting as usual.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
Both you and Frank have voiced this sentiment.
I suppose it is true... but only if your exposure to the format war is exclusively a forum argument between a handful of fan-boys.
Out in the "normal" world, consumers don't like exclusive titles. You should see the rage on joe six pack's face when he discovers that half his favorite movies aren't available for his brand-new HD player.
But it still makes no sense.
It makes sense if he had a feeling the Transformers 2 wasn't his anyway. It was still an iffy thing whether he'd get Transformers 2 and he had been lobbying heavy for it. This way, if there's no movie or when it goes to someone else he doesn't lose face since he gave it up "on principle".
...Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain...
Note that the deal doesn't include Spielberg. Amusing thing about kicking Cruise to the curb is that it seems to have annoyed Spielberg too...and he can take his toys with him if going HD-DVD exclusive with Dreamworks is yet another annoyance after the other annoyances...like Paramount's criticism of Eastwoods marketing of Flags of Our Fathers and claiming Dreamgirls as a Paramount picture (which sure made Geffen really happy too).
If Paramount loses Dreamworks that $150M will be really stupid money because while it obviously won't be the KEY issue it would have been yet another annoyance to someone that doesn't have to put up with it since DreamWorks isn't sucking at the moment like it was in 2005.
Paramount wouldn't be in a happy place without Blades of Glory (*sigh*) and Transformers and Snider and Spielberg brought those to Paramount/DreamWorks. And Paramount doesn't own Shrek or anything out of DreamWorks Animation that...owns the name DreamWorks and isn't owned by Viacom. If Spielberg jumps likely DWA will move to a new distributor as well...and hey DWA got the $100M piece of the pie. Katzenberg > Grey.
Vinea
Focus on the other half of the sentence you quoted.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
Well...no...exclusives are great if it ends the format war. If everyone went HD-DVD that would be as awesome as if everyone went Blu-Ray.
Going exclusive to continue the format war is not great.
If Toshiba actually gets to $99 this Xmas that would be great. But they aren't so who cares?
Vinea
The format wars continuing or getting thicker is good for consumers. The only bad it causes is for the people that have already purchased players... but they KNEW about the war before they purchased.
Blu-ray having a competitor forced them to start using better codecs, because hd-dvd did have (on average) slightly better quality (with less memory). HD-DVD upped (or is upping) to 50gb discs because of Blu-ray existing. Having two competitors in a market is nothing but good for consumers. Apple vs M$, Intel vs AMD, ATI vs Nvidia. Technology and innovation and performance goes around and around between these sets of companies. Each put pressure on the other to improve quality / user experience. Why is that a bad thing?
If anything HD-DVD improving will force Blu-ray marketers to suggestion more innovation instead of pocketing profit. Perhaps prices will be driven down more? $30 for a movie? Are you kidding me? I know there are sales on HD discs around 13-20 but the average cost of an hd movie is $25-$30. It's ridiculous and needs to change. I predict these two competing, the next step will be drops in pricing.
All I see in the future is dual format players. Kind of like DVD-R vs DVD+R. The original Pioneer dvd players couldn't read DVD+R discs. As a result of DVD-R and DVD+R being out, they drove each other's prices down... for media and players. They drove the prices lower than CD burners if you want to talk strictly burners.
If dual format players become more popular and their pricing improves, what would be so bad about having HD-DVD & Blu-ray sharing shelf space?
Nah... no axe...
I just thought people are over reacting as usual.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
It was a good thing because all signs were pointing towards the choice of one format over the other, now there is a mixed bag again. No one wants that... except Microsoft.
Focus on the other half of the sentence you quoted.
People unhappy with Paramount aren't neccessarily blu-ray supporters. Instead, many feel that titles exclusive to _any_ single format are a bad thing for us consumers and movie watchers.
That's my point. I don't see either gaining enough traction now. It's a bad move on the consumer level. I don't see HIgh Definition home video getting off the ground in the mind of consumers at all now. A Unified HD/Blu-Ray Player for under $200 what these two are going to be waiting for b/c High Definition Home Video just took about ten steps backwards.
But by almost everyone's calculations, that's 2/3 of almost nothing. Only early, early adopters have bought players at this point.
Even some of the principal advocates of either platform in this thread haven't bought a player yet.
While Blu-Ray advocates are couching their disapproval of Paramount's choice in terms of feeling sorry for potential sales lost, I suspect that what they are really worried about is that Toshiba has pulled off a coup here.
With easier to understand consumer branding coupled with much lower prices, HD-DVD now has a shot at winning the game outright.
It's still early to see if they can follow through though.
Give me a break guys. Seriously. "Toshiba has pulled off a coup here." They "now have a shot at winning the game outright? Really? With one more studio on their side with which makes 2 exclusive studios compared to 5 exclusive studios on Blu-ray. Really? Give me some of what your smokin, cause they still don't have a shot at winning this outright, and here is the reason...
Consider this. Blu-ray has beaten HD DVD to a pulp all year long and that is without FOX and MGM. Sure the Paramount loss is bad for Blu-ray, but with one less studio, comes one more to the Blu-ray fold releasing 29 titles for this year alone with Fox. I think that the ratio of sales would have increased to like 3:1 or 3.5:1 in favor of Blu-ray with Paramount still on board, but by losing them, I still see Blu-ray sustaining a 2:1 to 2.5 to 1 advantage through the holidays. It may even get to 3:1 or 3.5:1 if Blu-ray standalones come closer to price parity with the HD DVD players. I can easily see this with $299 Blu-ray standalones and a $399 PS3. At $399, Sony would effectively double their 4 million Blu-ray players out there in a heartbeat.
So, to say that HD DVD has a shot at winning this reminds me of Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber...
Frank777: What are the chances of HD DVD winning this outright?
Marzy: Well, that's pretty difficult to say.
Frank: Hit me with it! I've come a long way and have read a lot of HD DVD propaganda, Marzy. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Marzy: Not good.
Frank777: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Marzy: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Frank777: So you're telling me there's a chance.
LOL Marzetta7 do you even understand how the industry works? Directors are generally contracted. Michael Bay doesn't own the rights to Transformers. Paramount will just get another Director. Now if you're like Spielberg where you're Directing and Producing you have more juice because you exist higher up in the food chain.
More Directors will not do this because it's stupid to burn your bridges with a Major Studio over something trivial. I'd take Zack Snyder over Michael Bay, for Transformer 2, quicker than minute rice
Do you understand how the industry works? Defections of one studio certainly don't equate to winning a war, get over your giddyness and see clearly for once.
And I'm so glad you brought up Spielberg, because it has been confirmed that he a huge supporter of Blu-ray...
Exclusive: Spielberg "Big Supporter" of Blu-ray, But Future High-Def Releases Uncertain
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Uncertain/878
Confirming mounting speculation, we've got exclusive word this morning that Steven Spielberg is indeed "a big supporter" of Blu-ray, and that yesterday's carve out in the Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD announcement was designed to allow the legendary director to release future titles on Blu-ray.
With many of his early blockbusters distributed by Universal Pictures ('E.T.,' 'Jurassic Park' and 'Jaws,' among them), it was once assumed that the combination of Steven Spielberg's classic titles and Universal's exclusive HD DVD support would be one of format's biggest weapons against rival Blu-ray, but a series of developments have led many to speculate that perhaps Spielberg himself has other ideas.
The first hint of trouble for HD DVD came back in February when the HD DVD promo group issued a public apology to Spielberg after listing several of his titles in a "Coming Soon" list that was apparently never approved by the director.
Then, just last month came news that the very first Spielberg high-def title -- a 30th anniversary edition of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' -- would be released on Blu-ray, not HD DVD. (That release is due November 13, day and date with the standard-def DVD edition.)
Finally, yesterday's stunner of a Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD exclusivity press release included a conspicuous one line carve-out, stating that Spielberg's DreamWorks films would be exempt from the terms of the HD DVD exclusivity arrangement, opening the door to the possible future release of more recent Spielberg blockbusters on Blu-ray.
So what's the deal? We put that question to the source for all things Spielberg -- his longtime spokesman and DreamWorks marketing exec Marvin Levy. Speaking exclusively with High-Def Digest, Levy confirmed Spielberg's active support of Blu-ray with the selection of 'Close Encounters' for his next-gen debut.
"It was important to Steven that if any of his films were to be released [first] on high-definition, that it would be a classic," said Levy. "Steven is big supporter of Blu-ray, and chose 'Close Encounters' to be the first of his films on either format."
Spielberg approved the new high-def transfer made for the film, and among the Blu-ray's supplements is a new introduction recorded by the director specifically for the release, as well as a storyboard comparison.
Levy further clarified the Paramount/DreamWorks press release, saying that "...his movies, like 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'War of the Worlds,' are not included in that deal. They are not exclusive to HD DVD, nor [are they] planned for that format at this time.'"
Levy went on emphasize that beyond 'Close Encounters,' Spielberg has no other films in the high-def pipeline on either format. "At this moment, there are no plans for something further [on either format]. Anything in the future will be decided on a title-by-title basis. There certainly won't be more titles in 2007."
Hmm, ouch bud. Now, are you going to begin telling us how much Speilberg sucks now? Good luck on ever getting Jurrassic Park, Jaws, or Back to the Future there pal.
Michael Bay is a very good director BTW, the simple fact of his numerous blockbusters pretty much confirm this, no matter how you differ in opinion. Otherwise, his movies wouldn't sell.
Nah... no axe...
I just thought people are over reacting as usual.
It's just ironic that when Blu-Ray claims exclusivity with rental stores, retail stores(imaginary target), and studios(Sony, Fox & Disney).... it was a good thing, but when Paramount goes HD-DVD it's a bad thing?....
I just can't condone such logic. Obviously, this HiDef format war never had cosumers' interest in mind.... Hence the early exclusivity of Blu-Ray (Sony, Disney, Fox ) and HD-DVD (Universal) from the start..... with Warner & Paramount on neutural side for last 18 months or so.
Well.... whatever happened happened.... no crying over a spilled beer..... time to move on.
Well, hopefully this will help you undestand the difference...
http://www.digitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Boy... crazy day today, huh? As you may have noticed, the site's been up and down today because of all the traffic, but it should level out again soon. Nothing like a format war to liven things up around here.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand," goes the quote. Abraham Lincoln, of course, was talking about the fledgling United States back in 1858, but his words apply surprisingly well today, when reflecting upon the current state of the high-definition format war.
On that note, we've got tons of follow-up e-mails and phone calls out this afternoon to the all various studios and industry observers associated with said format war. And I'll tell you, based on some of the conversations we've had today (both on and off-the-record) with insiders in both camps and in between, when it comes to this morning's high-def news, there's a LOT more going on behind-the-scenes than meets the eye. You have NO idea. If you think the situation is as cut and dried as the press releases (or Harry's entertaining latest post over at AICN, not to mention the 'talk backs' that follow it) would make it seem, you're kidding yourself. Hollywood's on fire right now - at least the studio home video portion of it. And the retailers... and the manufacturers...
Like it or not, things are going to get VERY interesting in the next few days and in the weeks ahead. You're going to see a lot of reports on all this in the media, like this one at the Wall Street Journal, in which DreamWorks chief Jeffrey Katzenberg basically acknowledges that his company received financial incentives to go HD-DVD exclusive - incentives which included "both cash payments and soft incentives such as marketing promotions" according to the story.
By the way, a quick side comment here. A number of HD-DVD fans have e-mailed us to cry fowl over our issue with Microsoft offering financial incentives to studios to go HD-DVD only, when (they say) Sony must surely be doing the same thing on the Blu-ray Disc side. Here's the difference, and it's why we continue to flag it: Sony pumping money to various studios and parties to promote Blu-ray Disc make logical sense to us. Toshiba doing the same thing to promote HD-DVD, that makes logical sense too. Sony was involved in creating Blu-ray and has a financial stake in it. Likewise, Toshiba created HD-DVD and has a financial stake there. Where does Microsoft's interests lie? Microsoft did not create HD-DVD. Until not so very long ago (prior to these formats coming to market), as they themselves acknowledge, they actually supported both formats. So why are they putting so much money into HD-DVD now? Not only are they putting money into HD-DVD, they're basically the only party that's keeping the format alive. Left to their own financial means, we find it hard to believe that Toshiba would be able to keep pricing its hardware so low - especially given the fact that they've had to adjust their sales projections for the format downward in recent months. And without the "financial incentives" offered by Microsoft, would ANY of the HD-DVD exclusive studios still be HD-DVD exclusive? We doubt it. So what does Microsoft have to gain from all this? That's the question that keeps sticking in our minds. By making these deals with the studios, aren't they getting exclusive access to new high-def transfers that they'll be able to turn around and offer on Xbox Live - transfers that they themselves are encoding in VC-1 for the studios at a discounted rate or even for free? And as we've said many times now, doesn't Microsoft's download service stand to gain if this format war continues long enough to discourage most consumers from adopting high-def discs at all? That's the difference between Sony and Microsoft - Sony is heavily supporting their own format for obvious reasons. Microsoft is heavily supporting someone else's format for their own reasons, some of which are obvious (VC-1, HDi) and some not so much.
Anyway, there are going to be lots of quotes from studio suits about all this high-def news in the next few days and weeks. Some of it will true and some will be bullshit, and much of it will be a combination both. Yeah, I know... a lot of you guys are as sick of reading about this format war as we are of writing about it. But you can bet there will be reaction to (and even fallout from) today's announcements, and lots more testy exchanges in the media between the two camps, and we're right in the thick of it. So watch this space, folks
Hmm, ouch bud. Now, are you going to begin telling us how much Speilberg sucks now? Good luck on ever getting Jurrassic Park, Jaws, or Back to the Future there pal.
Back to the Future is directed by Robert Zemeckis.
I just thought people are over reacting as usual.
Its all in your head
Its all in your head
haha......you fanboy!....
Michael Bay is a very good director BTW, the simple fact of his numerous blockbusters pretty much confirm this, no matter how you differ in opinion. Otherwise, his movies wouldn't sell.
You lost me, Marz. By this logic, Adam Sandler is a very good actor, Britney Spears is a very good musician, and Van Gogh was a horrendous failure of an artist.
Mainstream acceptance often has little to do with genuine quality.
Back to the Future is directed by Robert Zemeckis.
With Spielberg as one of the executive producers. And, like Jurassic Park and E.T., ironically one of the movies distributed by Universal Pictures but mainly produced by Amblin, Spielberg's company. It's a pretty sure bet no Amblin films will be on HD DVD in the foreseeable future.
As for the talk of universal players being the future, it's stupid. It's forcing people to go to two formats for no good reason. This is not comparable to DVD-R vs DVD+R. Those had the exact same functions, namely burning several gigabytes of data to a disk. Even today, I can still buy only DVD-R discs (and in fact I do) and not have a problem. If studios are going to stay exclusive forever, then there is no direct competition between the two because you really have no choice but to support both formats to get all the movies you want. The right way would have been to standardize on a single format, but unfortunately, those jackasses at MS got their grubby fingers into the mix again. Will somebody please nuke Redmond? It's obvious they have weapons of mass distraction.
Mainstream acceptance often has little to do with genuine quality.
Except the studios care little about "quality." They'd much rather have $200 million gross than a billion praises. It's crass and it's commercial, but it's business and it's Hollywood.
As for the talk of universal players being the future, it's stupid. It's forcing people to go to two formats for no good reason. ....... The right way would have been to standardize on a single format, but unfortunately, those jackasses at MS got their grubby fingers into the mix again..
I don't think universal players are stupid at all. From a consumer standpoint it makes great sense to me. Do I care that it will cost the studios more to support two formats? Umm.... no. They're stupid for prolonging this and making the whole matter confusing to consumers. I say a pox on all the studios for the way they've handled this.
As for MS, no amount of pain, suffering and financial loss is too great for the way they've behaved.
I don't think universal players are stupid at all. From a consumer standpoint it makes great sense to me.
It makes no sense because it will never be as cheap as a single-format player. This isn't like DVD±R. These are two very different technologies and shoehorning both of them into one player costs big money, as the combo players have already shown. Is it good for the consumer to be forced to pay more for a player because the studios wanted to play games with each other?
It makes no sense because it will never be as cheap as a single-format player. This isn't like DVD±R. These are two very different technologies and shoehorning both of them into one player costs big money, as the combo players have already shown. Is it good for the consumer to be forced to pay more for a player because the studios wanted to play games with each other?
Well I would prefer to have a combo player rather than pick one or the other and be wrong. With MS now joining the fray in a major way it's hard to pick a winner. They are willing to loose BILLIONS of dollars just to win a fight. Who else can do that?
Well I would prefer to have a combo player rather than pick one or the other and be wrong. With MS now joining the fray in a major way it's hard to pick a winner. They are willing to loose BILLIONS of dollars just to win a fight. Who else can do that?
You run just as much of a risk of being stuck with the wrong format discs in the future with a combo player as you do with just committing to one format. Say you buy a combo player, and start buying films in both blu-ray and HD DVD; if and when one of the formats wins, the only place you're going to be able to play your extinct format discs is in that combo player you bought. Is that combo player going to last you the lifespan of the format? Probably not. Will there be combo players for sale in 5 years if one format dies? Nope. Your Mac, your game console, and your future DVD players will all utilize whichever format wins, and you'll have discs that are of the wrong format which won't play in any of them.
Unless neither format goes away (highly unlikely), a combo player still leaves you with unplayable discs in the future.