But the current players will not be able to handle the third layer. It says so right in the original article. That would also include all of the Xbox 360's add-on drives. And while there may or may not have been problems with 700MB CD-Rs, remember that a great many drives can't handle 800MB discs. In fact, I don't know of any way to burn them on Macs.
And, of course, it all comes down to this: all the article says is that Toshiba submitted the new format to be approved on paper. It doesn't say anything about it actually existing or working, much less being able to be mass-produced.
Precisely. So even if those who think 2 million HD DVD players will be sold this year (highly unlikely given that the number of HD DVD units sold was around 200,000 around January which included the number of 360 add-ons), you'll have all your players not capable of playback with the new proposed HD DVD 51 GB disc. But I'm sure that will go over well with current consumers of HD DVD.
Even when they announced this at this year's CES, they didn't even have a working prototype. I believe the 45 GB triple layer disc was submitted as well, but where is that guy?
On the other hand, Blu-ray companies like Panasonic and TDK already have WORKING 100GB and 200 GB prototypes capable of 6X read.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs].
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs [Blu-ray 50 GB discs] sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs] right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7 [HD DVD 51 GB discs].
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs]. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute [Blu-ray Disc] folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes [HD DVD], we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs (which they have)]. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs]! I said 7 [HD DVD 51 GB discs]. Nobody's comin' up with 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs] . Who works out in 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs] minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's [HD DVD 51 GB discs] the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're f#@!in' fired!
Hahahahahaha! It seems all to parallel in logic for the HD DVD proponents.
Precisely. So even if those who think 2 million HD DVD players will be sold this year (highly unlikely given that the number of HD DVD units sold was around 200,000 around January which included the number of 360 add-ons), you'll have all your players not capable of playback with the new proposed HD DVD 51 GB disc. But I'm sure that will go over well with current consumers of HD DVD.
Even when they announced this at this year's CES, they didn't even have a working prototype. I believe the 45 GB triple layer disc was submitted as well, but where is that guy?
On the other hand, Blu-ray companies like Panasonic and TDK already have WORKING 100GB and 200 GB prototypes capable of 6X read.
The burden of proof is with you guys to prove that current players do NOT read TL discs. All you've provided is assumptions from articles. The 51GB discs have been submitted to the DVD Forum for approval. The results of this ratification will give us the definitive answer. The NEC datasheet for the drive that was in many A1 and maybe A2 showed TL45GB support.
As for 200 million players sold. Look at the amount of players available.
Toshiba
HD-A2/E1
HD-XA2/XE1
HD-A20 (coming soon)
Qosmio laptops
HP
HD100
HH drives in Multimedia PC
Microsoft
Xbox 360 HD DVD Drive
Fujitsu Siemens
Laptop w/HD DVD
Acer
Laptop w/HD DVD
Asus
Laptop w/HD DVD
End of Q2 the players based on the Microsoft CE/Broadcom platform should hit.
ED Digital
Alco/Venturer
Shinco
Lite On
Then we have Onkyo's entry this year in North America.
?Let?s say the software sales are about even, and you?ve got five times as much hardware on the Blu-ray side as you have on the HD DVD side,? said one executive. ?That means your attach rates for HD DVD are higher than your attach rates for Blu-ray,? he said, pointing to 1 million PlayStation 3 and stand-alone BD devices combined in homes, versus about 200,000 HD DVD players that have sold, including stand-alones and Xbox 360 add-on drives.
Retailers remain upbeat about HD DVD, and some say they are anticipating a $100 price cut from Toshiba on its second-generation players. That would bring the manufacturer?s basic model down to as low as $399.
?You?ll see the lower pricing in 30 to 60 days,? said one retail source. ?For Toshiba to hit the sell-through numbers that it wants, I expect to see a base level of $299 this fall.?
Toshiba?s Sally did not respond to questions about pricing by deadline.
But most retailers believe that current sales levels of HD DVD and BD are far too small to indicate real strength in either format.
(My emphasis added)
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
If I were a studio, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about "attach rates." All that determines is how much profit the hardware manufacturers make. The only thing that would be important to me is how many discs I sell. If I can sell 1 million discs in one format and 600,000 in another, it'd make no difference to me whether there are 10x more players in the first. 1 million is 1 million and 600,000 is 400,000 fewer discs on my bottom line.
The burden of proof is with you guys to prove that current players do NOT read TL discs. All you've provided is assumptions from articles. The 51GB discs have been submitted to the DVD Forum for approval. The results of this ratification will give us the definitive answer. The NEC datasheet for the drive that was in many A1 and maybe A2 showed TL45GB support.
As for 200 million players sold. Look at the amount of players available.
Toshiba
HD-A2/E1
HD-XA2/XE1
HD-A20 (coming soon)
Qosmio laptops
HP
HD100
HH drives in Multimedia PC
Microsoft
Xbox 360 HD DVD Drive
Fujitsu Siemens
Laptop w/HD DVD
Acer
Laptop w/HD DVD
Asus
Laptop w/HD DVD
End of Q2 the players based on the Microsoft CE/Broadcom platform should hit.
ED Digital
Alco/Venturer
Shinco
Lite On
Then we have Onkyo's entry this year in North America.
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
This is mumbo jumbo. Right now Blu-Ray is opening up a sizeable advantage. Some industry analysts are already calling it the format war over and done. I don't think so yet, but Blu-Ray is clearly winning at present. I also agree with Kolchak. The "attach rate" doesn't mean a goddamned thing. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Period.
........ erm.... isnt that EXACTLY what you just did?
if there are 1 million HD-DVD owners
and 2 million Blu-ray owners.... the MAXIMUM potential amount of discs you can sell in HD-DVD format is 1 million.... theres your limitation right there.
why do you think there is SO much PC software? bigger market.... i mean, dont you get that?
This is a good thing. I wouldn't expect 50GB discs to be as popular in the HD DVD arena as they are with Blu-ray. HD DVD has been about efficiency and delivering quality in 30GB. LotR and other long play movies require much more storage than the avg feature length film. This now gives producers the ability to store the whole movie on the whole disc with room for excellent video, interactivity and sound.
I'm assuming that we might see 34GB standard 2-layer discs should this be ratified. I'm glad they are submitting it now for approval as LotR is coming in 2008 and this disc tech would be something they'd be interested in.
It appears this was all BS...hmm much like the much rumored 45 GB triple layered disc...
A three-layer HD DVD disc with enough room for about 7 hours of high-definition video is still under development and hasn?t been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum, the standard?s governing body, despite reports to the contrary, Toshiba said Thursday.
The disc, which has a capacity of 51GB, was first unveiled at the International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas in January this year. It attracted much attention not just because it substantially raises the maximum capacity of an HD DVD disc but also because it beats that of the rival Blu-ray Disc format, albeit by just 1GB.
In the last few days a number of Web sites and blogs have reported the format has been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum and some have said that approval has been received, but Toshiba says nothing of the sort has happened.
?We?re puzzled ourself by where these reports came from,? said Junko Furuta, a spokeswoman for the company in Tokyo. She said Toshiba hasn?t made any further announcements about the disc since CES, and it wasn?t submitted to any steering committees during this week?s DVD Forum meetings in Tokyo.
When Toshiba first announced the disc in January, it said it hoped to get approval for the disc some time in 2007.
HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc are competing to become the de facto replacement for DVD for storing high-definition movies and other content. HD DVD is primarily backed by Toshiba, while Sony Corp. is the main backer of Blu-ray Disc. HD DVD can hold 15GB on a single disc, or 30GB on a dual layer disc, while Blu-ray Disc manages 25GB or 50GB on single or dual-layer discs respectively.
To fit 51GB on its prototype disc Toshiba added a third recording layer and increased the maximum storage capacity of each layer to 17GB.
And by "unveiled" as mentioned in the article they mean announced, as there was NO working prototype at CES in January, just an annoucement on a presentation slide. I just find it very hypocritical of HD DVD proponents who have long claimed that 30 GB is "more than enough" and how longer movies would be better handled via multiple discs, because then that way, the consumer was feeling like he/she was getting more. Wow, how quickly some of you change your tune. No matter, as the storage capacity department is still in Blu-ray's favor with WORKING and publicly DEMOED 100 GB and 200 GB discs.
The burden of proof, in reality, is to first verify you're posting accurate "apporval submission" information and then to verify whether or not 51 GB discs will indeed work with existing HD DVD players, as the 100 and 200 GB discs have about as much of a chance working with existing Blu-ray players as this "under development" 51 GB disc does in my opinion.
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
Hmm, okay. Let me get this straight. You by some unforseen consequence believe that HD DVD player sales will increase by a factor of 10 (going from 200,000 to 2,000,000) with their less than 50% studio support and one ce manufacturer in Toshiba while Blu-ray will only increase by a factor of 3 (going from 2,000,000 to only 6,000,000 - http://www.vgcharts.org/) with approximately 85-90% studio support and 7 ce manufacturers in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips Samsung, Sharp, and LG?
Looks pretty decent, especially with the pending launch in Europe which is sure to gobble up some of those 2 million shipped. :cool:
I think it is funny, for the article you posted:
Quote:
Things are not looking good for the videogame giants who have dominated the industry for the last ten years.
Basically the article is saying that while they have shipped 4 million, only half of those have been sold. 2 million are sitting at BBs, Walmarts, Kmarts, and other electronic outlets or in warehouses. If they aren't selling to the consumers, how exactly is that a good thing?
And to end this, a note posted over at doom9 a few days back:
Quote:
Continuing with HD news, it appears Blu-ray has caught up with HD DVD in terms of software sales. The article mentions a few pertinent things though: there are a lot more Blu-ray capable players, meaning Blu-ray owners buy less discs, and that in recent months, the Blu-ray camp has been churning out more discs. Let's analyze a bit, shall we: More players: That is if you count the PS3. But, the PS3 is a gaming console (not selling so terribly by the way) that Sony is using to cross promote Blu-ray. Hardly anybody buys a PS3 just to play Blu-ray (it might be a cheaper player but a noisy gaming console is no substitute for a player that fits in with your other equipment and which is quiet). Moreover, around Christmas people buy a lot of consoles - and that's where the novelty factor of Blu-ray comes in: While on your way from the PS3 pile and the register, you are likely to come across a bunch of Blu-ray discs, so you'll be tempted to pick up a couple discs just for the heck of it. Hey, I have a bunch of UMD movies for when I got a PSP and I'm not the only one - UMD even got considerable software support in the beginning but the format simply tanked after the novelty phase had worn off.. people much rather wanted to rip their DVDs and play them on their PSPs (the interest in making backup copies, unlike the interest in UMD) has not faded. I see the same thing in my http statistics.. around Christmas, people get new electronic gadgets, which results in a spike of interest in the matters we deal with on this site and the forum. With both HD formats still being in the early stages of the early adopter phase, the considerable increase in units sold in December and January (versus earlier months) may not continue that way as most people still stick back and let things develop.
The Blu-ray camp will argue many HD DVD players are just Xbox360 add-ons - which is true - but keep in mind that you don't buy a HD DVD drive for the Xbox360 (or your PC.. the device works on both) unless you care about the format in the first place, making every sale of a HD DVD add-on a lot more significant in the overall picture than the sale of a PS3 unit.
Now let's have a look at software: Blu-ray has the edge in studio support. But, recall DIVX? The two studios with a stake in the DVD format (Sony and Warner), supported DVD exclusively. Fox was DIVX only (so now not surprisingly they are in the BD camp since it has more stringent DRM), Disney, while officially supporting DVD, exhibited a very lackluster DVD commitment - and one of their main sellers, animated features, were DIVX only. The same thing can be said about Paramount. The only company firmly in both camps was Universal (now the only remaining exclusive HD DVD supporter). So, software wise, despite the two holdouts, I was always concerned that DIVX had an edge since the studios standing in both camps seemed to favor DIVX. In the end, studio support mattered little - all studios quickly fell in line and went down the road where there was money to be made (so they followed the lead of the customer). Hence, I disagree with assessments that the format war is over, or would be over if Universal caved. Paramount's decision to drop DIVX is often seen as the point where the scales tipped - so if one of the studios standing in both camps is going to drop support for one of the HD formats, that's when I'd get worried, but before that you shouldn't spend too much time worrying about the numbers the Blu-ray camps is throwing at you - it's just spin.
If I were a studio, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about "attach rates." All that determines is how much profit the hardware manufacturers make. The only thing that would be important to me is how many discs I sell. If I can sell 1 million discs in one format and 600,000 in another, it'd make no difference to me whether there are 10x more players in the first. 1 million is 1 million and 600,000 is 400,000 fewer discs on my bottom line.
Thank God you don't own a studio then. Attachrates are important. It doesn't matter if Sony is generation billions in revenue for the PS3 if those people aren't buying movies. If selling discs is important to you then knowing the avg attachrate and how many players have been sold allows you to calculate what you "should" be selling. Kolchak ..come on you're better than this.
This is mumbo jumbo. Right now Blu-Ray is opening up a sizeable advantage. Some industry analysts are already calling it the format war over and done. I don't think so yet, but Blu-Ray is clearly winning at present. I also agree with Kolchak. The "attach rate" doesn't mean a goddamned thing. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Period.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers. You mention a sizable advantage you I know that you have no more hard data than I do. It's clear that Blu-ray enjoys a lead right now in movie releases. However it's also clear from the same source (Amazon) that HD DVD is doing well.
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
Duh. Isn't that what I said, that the revenue of the hardware makers is irrelevant to the studios?
In the end, all that matters is what you ARE selling. Blu-ray titles are almost always outselling the same titles on HD DVD right now, and often by a substantial margin, judging from the eproductwars charts. Why would I care if the 50,000 discs I sell is for 1 million, 10 million or 100 million machines? As long as it's more than the 35,000 discs that the HD DVD edition is selling, that would make it more attractive for me to concentrate on the better-selling market. Not to mention it's also an even bigger potential market. I'd have to be a total dunce not to realize that with that one right title that everyone wants, all of a sudden, there's a huge pool of players which, while their owners may not have bought many discs before, may decide to splurge on my title, because -- guess what? -- the players are already in the homes, already paid for. I suspect one such popular title that this might happen with may be Spider-Man 3, and as a Columbia (Sony) production, it'll be Blu-ray only. Honestly, do you think all these young males who already own PS3s and really like this kind of action movie will decide that they'd rather have the DVD for a buck or two less than the Blu-ray edition given that they already have the ability to play the better version?
And Murchie, Murchie, Murchie. It's obvious to anyone without a chip on his shoulder that SDW was referring to the SOFTWARE sales, while you steadfastly cling to your hardware figures. eproductwars does indeed say that Blu-ray titles are easily outselling HD DVD titles, and they're doing so on an individual basis as well as an overall basis.
Hmm, okay. Let me get this straight. You by some unforseen consequence believe that HD DVD player sales will increase by a factor of 10 (going from 200,000 to 2,000,000) with their less than 50% studio support and one ce manufacturer in Toshiba while Blu-ray will only increase by a factor of 3 (going from 2,000,000 to only 6,000,000 - http://www.vgcharts.org/) with approximately 85-90% studio support and 7 ce manufacturers in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips Samsung, Sharp, and LG?
Wow, the delusions are rampant on this board.
You're forgetting that the 175k number at CES 2007 was North American sales only. The Euro launch hadn't happened and nor were the 50k or so Xbox add ons in the UK counted. As you can see from my post above with today's HD DVD player ranking...HD DVD is still selling solidly and that is despite a dearth of releases which is changing. The Digital Bits has a rumor about the titles coming from Universal. Many will be please.
So again lets reiterate.
2 million total players by years end for HD DVD worldwide. Oh yeah add Samsung to that list of laptop vendors shipping HD DVD product.
Now for that Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):
April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor
May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation
June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof
July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva
August - Heroes: Season One
September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People
Duh. Isn't that what I said, that the revenue of the hardware makers is irrelevant to the studios?
In the end, all that matters is what you ARE selling. Blu-ray titles are almost always outselling the same titles on HD DVD right now, and often by a substantial margin, judging from the eproductwars charts. Why would I care if the 50,000 discs I sell is for 1 million, 10 million or 100 million machines? As long as it's more than the 35,000 discs that the HD DVD edition is selling, that would make it more attractive for me to concentrate on the better-selling market. Not to mention it's also an even bigger potential market. I'd have to be a total dunce not to realize that with that one right title that everyone wants, all of a sudden, there's a huge pool of players which, while their owners may not have bought many discs before, may decide to splurge on my title, because -- guess what? -- the players are already in the homes, already paid for. I suspect one such popular title that this might happen with may be Spider-Man 3, and as a Columbia (Sony) production, it'll be Blu-ray only. Honestly, do you think all these young males who already own PS3s and really like this kind of action movie will decide that they'd rather have the DVD for a buck or two less than the Blu-ray edition given that they already have the ability to play the better version?
And Murchie, Murchie, Murchie. It's obvious to anyone without a chip on his shoulder that SDW was referring to the SOFTWARE sales, while you steadfastly cling to your hardware figures. eproductwars does indeed say that Blu-ray titles are easily outselling HD DVD titles, and they're doing so on an individual basis as well as an overall basis.
I believe he said "Period" and mentioned nothing about differentiating Hardware or Software. Software sales make sense. The only real blockbuster HD DVD has released lately has been The Departed which sales very well despite being 4 dollars more on Amazon.
I won't argue that content is Blu-ray's coup de grace. Without the content advantage Blu-ray would be finished as price really does trump all.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers.
It seems as the numbers change in favor of Blu-Ray folks decide that "no, really...THIS is the metric that is key".
It was inevitable that Blu-ray numbers would improve since they had an abysmal launch. Why would anyone think the current lower attach rates would be any different or any more significant to the discussion? There's no single all important metric and I'm guessing that personalities between movers and shakers are as much a factor in the game right now than any financial or technical measure.
Companies are run by people with their own biases and self interests. Until the numbers become meaningful they can indulge their biases. With so few machines and discs sold it's a market with potential but not that much reality behind it yet.
You're forgetting that the 175k number at CES 2007 was North American sales only. The Euro launch hadn't happened and nor were the 50k or so Xbox add ons in the UK counted. As you can see from my post above with today's HD DVD player ranking...HD DVD is still selling solidly and that is despite a dearth of releases which is changing. The Digital Bits has a rumor about the titles coming from Universal. Many will be please.
Murch,...it is painfully obvious you are grasping for straws here. Ok, lets try and jump into that mind of yours just for fun. Lets count the 175k number, plus the 50,000 or so 360s from the UK you've claimed without a link, and heck lets even throw in another 75,000 (25,000 from Asia and 25,000 from UK) for standalones worldwide and another 25,000 360s for Asia. That's still only 300,000 HD DVD players guy. And again you are trying to claim an increase of players from HD DVD by almost a factor of 10 for 2007 with a corresponding increase for Blu-ray by a factor of 3.
Doesn't make much sense when you look at it logically, given the amount of content and hardware support given to each format. Especially given the amount of player sales and software sales of the last couple of months from Nielsen which shows Blu-ray leading the competition by a good margin.
Quote:
So again lets reiterate.
2 million total players by years end for HD DVD worldwide. Oh yeah add Samsung to that list of laptop vendors shipping HD DVD product.
September of 2006 says hello. Yes, Samsung has a laptop with and HD DVD product, and it was announced around September of 2006. However, in November, Samsung stated this quite directly...
So, I wouldn't get too excited over the Samsung laptop drive there big guy. In regards to Universal's release schedule, it does indeed look nice, but lets see how many actually make it to production. I just can't get out of my head how HD DVD claimed they would have 200 movies out by the end of 2006, yet they managed only about a bit over half that. Now their claiming 300-400 titles out this year. Hmmhmm, I'll believe it when I see it, lets just leave it at that.
Note that the article you posted was from 11/13/2006 and note the date regarding the M55 with a HD DVD burner. That's 3/1/2007...which one do you think has the fresher content?
I do think HD DVD will deliver 2 million players. If true the Universal list is 60 titles strong out of the 100 exclusives they promised thus far. Warner and Paramount should be kicking in soon and Dreamworks looks ready to drop some movies. It really is going well for both formats. I think the studios will eventually realize that they have to mitigate their risks and find a way to deliver to both formats with one SKU. Warners Total HD is the first foray into this area.
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
Wait, did I miss something here? You spend an entire posting talking about how well HD DVD players are selling then turn around and compare the PS3 sales to the Wii and the 360 rather than to those HD DVD players. Isn't that a total non sequitur, going from talking about HD players to talking about gaming consoles? You're not even comparing it to the sales of the 360's HD DVD drive, just the base 360. And why would the Wii's success or failure have anything to do with how well HD DVD is doing? If we're to compare apples to apples, shouldn't the PS3 sales still be kicking HD DVD player sales' butt?
Now for that Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):
April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor
May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation
June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof
July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva
August - Heroes: Season One
September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People
Not a single blockbuster in the bunch. In fact, it's about bloody time they put out a decent version of Last Starfighter. Their DVD release of that was shamefully mastered, all murky and dark, worse than broadcast and worse than VHS. But still not a good enough movie to get me to buy an HD DVD player. You seem to arguing for HD DVD now the same way you accuse Blu-ray of claiming better sales. Where Universal's concerned, it's all about quantity of titles rather than quantity of sales of each title, right? Flood the market with mediocre movies and hope they can collectively bring up sales figures for the format? Heck, I've never even heard of some of these titles, much less want to buy them. Hot Fuzz, a film that according to IMDb is direct-to-video in the US market? Alpha Dog, a title that made all of $15 million at the theaters last year? And Legend, Tom Cruise's legendarily panned flop? Bwahahahah! People must be beating down the doors for those. These are incredible exclusives all right. I don't know why anyone would possibly want a Blu-ray player which can't play these titles.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers. You mention a sizable advantage you I know that you have no more hard data than I do. It's clear that Blu-ray enjoys a lead right now in movie releases. However it's also clear from the same source (Amazon) that HD DVD is doing well.
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
You're such a friggin' cheerleader. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Yes? It has an advantage. It has more studio support. In other words, it's "winning" right now. That's all I'm saying. But you can't accept it...because you're too busy thinking/saying "HD-DVD, It's the ve-ry best for me! HD -DVD-it's the very best for me!"
Comments
But the current players will not be able to handle the third layer. It says so right in the original article. That would also include all of the Xbox 360's add-on drives. And while there may or may not have been problems with 700MB CD-Rs, remember that a great many drives can't handle 800MB discs. In fact, I don't know of any way to burn them on Macs.
And, of course, it all comes down to this: all the article says is that Toshiba submitted the new format to be approved on paper. It doesn't say anything about it actually existing or working, much less being able to be mass-produced.
Precisely. So even if those who think 2 million HD DVD players will be sold this year (highly unlikely given that the number of HD DVD units sold was around 200,000 around January which included the number of 360 add-ons), you'll have all your players not capable of playback with the new proposed HD DVD 51 GB disc. But I'm sure that will go over well with current consumers of HD DVD.
Even when they announced this at this year's CES, they didn't even have a working prototype. I believe the 45 GB triple layer disc was submitted as well, but where is that guy?
On the other hand, Blu-ray companies like Panasonic and TDK already have WORKING 100GB and 200 GB prototypes capable of 6X read.
Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs [Blu-ray 50 GB discs]?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs [Blu-ray 50 GB discs]. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs].
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a video store, you see 8-Minute Abs [Blu-ray 50 GB discs] sittin' there, there's 7-Minute Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs] right beside it. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 7 [HD DVD 51 GB discs].
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs [HD DVD 51 GB discs]. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute [Blu-ray Disc] folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes [HD DVD], we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 6-Minute Abs [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs (which they have)]. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs]! I said 7 [HD DVD 51 GB discs]. Nobody's comin' up with 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs] . Who works out in 6 [100/200 GB Blu-ray Discs] minutes? You won't even get your heart goin, not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 7's [HD DVD 51 GB discs] the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're f#@!in' fired!
Hahahahahaha!
Precisely. So even if those who think 2 million HD DVD players will be sold this year (highly unlikely given that the number of HD DVD units sold was around 200,000 around January which included the number of 360 add-ons), you'll have all your players not capable of playback with the new proposed HD DVD 51 GB disc. But I'm sure that will go over well with current consumers of HD DVD.
Even when they announced this at this year's CES, they didn't even have a working prototype. I believe the 45 GB triple layer disc was submitted as well, but where is that guy?
On the other hand, Blu-ray companies like Panasonic and TDK already have WORKING 100GB and 200 GB prototypes capable of 6X read.
The burden of proof is with you guys to prove that current players do NOT read TL discs. All you've provided is assumptions from articles. The 51GB discs have been submitted to the DVD Forum for approval. The results of this ratification will give us the definitive answer. The NEC datasheet for the drive that was in many A1 and maybe A2 showed TL45GB support.
As for 200 million players sold. Look at the amount of players available.
Toshiba
HD-A2/E1
HD-XA2/XE1
HD-A20 (coming soon)
Qosmio laptops
HP
HD100
HH drives in Multimedia PC
Microsoft
Xbox 360 HD DVD Drive
Fujitsu Siemens
Laptop w/HD DVD
Acer
Laptop w/HD DVD
Asus
Laptop w/HD DVD
End of Q2 the players based on the Microsoft CE/Broadcom platform should hit.
ED Digital
Alco/Venturer
Shinco
Lite On
Then we have Onkyo's entry this year in North America.
Player pricing is supposed to be as low as $299
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6418854.html
?Let?s say the software sales are about even, and you?ve got five times as much hardware on the Blu-ray side as you have on the HD DVD side,? said one executive. ?That means your attach rates for HD DVD are higher than your attach rates for Blu-ray,? he said, pointing to 1 million PlayStation 3 and stand-alone BD devices combined in homes, versus about 200,000 HD DVD players that have sold, including stand-alones and Xbox 360 add-on drives.
Retailers remain upbeat about HD DVD, and some say they are anticipating a $100 price cut from Toshiba on its second-generation players. That would bring the manufacturer?s basic model down to as low as $399.
?You?ll see the lower pricing in 30 to 60 days,? said one retail source. ?For Toshiba to hit the sell-through numbers that it wants, I expect to see a base level of $299 this fall.?
Toshiba?s Sally did not respond to questions about pricing by deadline.
But most retailers believe that current sales levels of HD DVD and BD are far too small to indicate real strength in either format.
(My emphasis added)
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
The burden of proof is with you guys to prove that current players do NOT read TL discs. All you've provided is assumptions from articles. The 51GB discs have been submitted to the DVD Forum for approval. The results of this ratification will give us the definitive answer. The NEC datasheet for the drive that was in many A1 and maybe A2 showed TL45GB support.
As for 200 million players sold. Look at the amount of players available.
Toshiba
HD-A2/E1
HD-XA2/XE1
HD-A20 (coming soon)
Qosmio laptops
HP
HD100
HH drives in Multimedia PC
Microsoft
Xbox 360 HD DVD Drive
Fujitsu Siemens
Laptop w/HD DVD
Acer
Laptop w/HD DVD
Asus
Laptop w/HD DVD
End of Q2 the players based on the Microsoft CE/Broadcom platform should hit.
ED Digital
Alco/Venturer
Shinco
Lite On
Then we have Onkyo's entry this year in North America.
Player pricing is supposed to be as low as $299
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6418854.html
(My emphasis added)
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
This is mumbo jumbo. Right now Blu-Ray is opening up a sizeable advantage. Some industry analysts are already calling it the format war over and done. I don't think so yet, but Blu-Ray is clearly winning at present. I also agree with Kolchak. The "attach rate" doesn't mean a goddamned thing. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Period.
All you've provided is assumptions from articles.
........ erm.... isnt that EXACTLY what you just did?
if there are 1 million HD-DVD owners
and 2 million Blu-ray owners.... the MAXIMUM potential amount of discs you can sell in HD-DVD format is 1 million.... theres your limitation right there.
why do you think there is SO much PC software? bigger market.... i mean, dont you get that?
Comment I shall.
This is a good thing. I wouldn't expect 50GB discs to be as popular in the HD DVD arena as they are with Blu-ray. HD DVD has been about efficiency and delivering quality in 30GB. LotR and other long play movies require much more storage than the avg feature length film. This now gives producers the ability to store the whole movie on the whole disc with room for excellent video, interactivity and sound.
I'm assuming that we might see 34GB standard 2-layer discs should this be ratified. I'm glad they are submitting it now for approval as LotR is coming in 2008 and this disc tech would be something they'd be interested in.
It appears this was all BS...hmm much like the much rumored 45 GB triple layered disc...
Toshiba says 51GB HD DVD still under development
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03...hiba/index.php
A three-layer HD DVD disc with enough room for about 7 hours of high-definition video is still under development and hasn?t been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum, the standard?s governing body, despite reports to the contrary, Toshiba said Thursday.
The disc, which has a capacity of 51GB, was first unveiled at the International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas in January this year. It attracted much attention not just because it substantially raises the maximum capacity of an HD DVD disc but also because it beats that of the rival Blu-ray Disc format, albeit by just 1GB.
In the last few days a number of Web sites and blogs have reported the format has been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum and some have said that approval has been received, but Toshiba says nothing of the sort has happened.
?We?re puzzled ourself by where these reports came from,? said Junko Furuta, a spokeswoman for the company in Tokyo. She said Toshiba hasn?t made any further announcements about the disc since CES, and it wasn?t submitted to any steering committees during this week?s DVD Forum meetings in Tokyo.
When Toshiba first announced the disc in January, it said it hoped to get approval for the disc some time in 2007.
HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc are competing to become the de facto replacement for DVD for storing high-definition movies and other content. HD DVD is primarily backed by Toshiba, while Sony Corp. is the main backer of Blu-ray Disc. HD DVD can hold 15GB on a single disc, or 30GB on a dual layer disc, while Blu-ray Disc manages 25GB or 50GB on single or dual-layer discs respectively.
To fit 51GB on its prototype disc Toshiba added a third recording layer and increased the maximum storage capacity of each layer to 17GB.
And by "unveiled" as mentioned in the article they mean announced, as there was NO working prototype at CES in January, just an annoucement on a presentation slide. I just find it very hypocritical of HD DVD proponents who have long claimed that 30 GB is "more than enough" and how longer movies would be better handled via multiple discs, because then that way, the consumer was feeling like he/she was getting more. Wow, how quickly some of you change your tune. No matter, as the storage capacity department is still in Blu-ray's favor with WORKING and publicly DEMOED 100 GB and 200 GB discs.
The burden of proof, in reality, is to first verify you're posting accurate "apporval submission" information and then to verify whether or not 51 GB discs will indeed work with existing HD DVD players, as the 100 and 200 GB discs have about as much of a chance working with existing Blu-ray players as this "under development" 51 GB disc does in my opinion.
We can crack wise about the opposing formats but lets be honest. If you can only see things from one perspective in this war. If being right means more than being level headed then people reading have the right to rebuke your posts. I support HD DVD because it's the right format for me right now. I'd gladly support Blu-ray but right now the players from HD DVD have more features and cost less. If I support them with my money the content will most likely come around. There will be 2 million HD DVD players worldwide by the end of the year. There will likely be 6 million total Blu-ray players including the PS3. The attachrate of movies is going to loom important.
Hmm, okay. Let me get this straight. You by some unforseen consequence believe that HD DVD player sales will increase by a factor of 10 (going from 200,000 to 2,000,000) with their less than 50% studio support and one ce manufacturer in Toshiba while Blu-ray will only increase by a factor of 3 (going from 2,000,000 to only 6,000,000 - http://www.vgcharts.org/) with approximately 85-90% studio support and 7 ce manufacturers in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips Samsung, Sharp, and LG?
Wow, the delusions are rampant on this board.
http://www.vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=111
Looks pretty decent, especially with the pending launch in Europe which is sure to gobble up some of those 2 million shipped. :cool:
4 million PS3s Shipped, 2 million sold...
http://www.vgcharts.org/news/news.php?id=111
Looks pretty decent, especially with the pending launch in Europe which is sure to gobble up some of those 2 million shipped. :cool:
I think it is funny, for the article you posted:
Things are not looking good for the videogame giants who have dominated the industry for the last ten years.
Basically the article is saying that while they have shipped 4 million, only half of those have been sold. 2 million are sitting at BBs, Walmarts, Kmarts, and other electronic outlets or in warehouses. If they aren't selling to the consumers, how exactly is that a good thing?
And to end this, a note posted over at doom9 a few days back:
Continuing with HD news, it appears Blu-ray has caught up with HD DVD in terms of software sales. The article mentions a few pertinent things though: there are a lot more Blu-ray capable players, meaning Blu-ray owners buy less discs, and that in recent months, the Blu-ray camp has been churning out more discs. Let's analyze a bit, shall we: More players: That is if you count the PS3. But, the PS3 is a gaming console (not selling so terribly by the way) that Sony is using to cross promote Blu-ray. Hardly anybody buys a PS3 just to play Blu-ray (it might be a cheaper player but a noisy gaming console is no substitute for a player that fits in with your other equipment and which is quiet). Moreover, around Christmas people buy a lot of consoles - and that's where the novelty factor of Blu-ray comes in: While on your way from the PS3 pile and the register, you are likely to come across a bunch of Blu-ray discs, so you'll be tempted to pick up a couple discs just for the heck of it. Hey, I have a bunch of UMD movies for when I got a PSP and I'm not the only one - UMD even got considerable software support in the beginning but the format simply tanked after the novelty phase had worn off.. people much rather wanted to rip their DVDs and play them on their PSPs (the interest in making backup copies, unlike the interest in UMD) has not faded. I see the same thing in my http statistics.. around Christmas, people get new electronic gadgets, which results in a spike of interest in the matters we deal with on this site and the forum. With both HD formats still being in the early stages of the early adopter phase, the considerable increase in units sold in December and January (versus earlier months) may not continue that way as most people still stick back and let things develop.
The Blu-ray camp will argue many HD DVD players are just Xbox360 add-ons - which is true - but keep in mind that you don't buy a HD DVD drive for the Xbox360 (or your PC.. the device works on both) unless you care about the format in the first place, making every sale of a HD DVD add-on a lot more significant in the overall picture than the sale of a PS3 unit.
Now let's have a look at software: Blu-ray has the edge in studio support. But, recall DIVX? The two studios with a stake in the DVD format (Sony and Warner), supported DVD exclusively. Fox was DIVX only (so now not surprisingly they are in the BD camp since it has more stringent DRM), Disney, while officially supporting DVD, exhibited a very lackluster DVD commitment - and one of their main sellers, animated features, were DIVX only. The same thing can be said about Paramount. The only company firmly in both camps was Universal (now the only remaining exclusive HD DVD supporter). So, software wise, despite the two holdouts, I was always concerned that DIVX had an edge since the studios standing in both camps seemed to favor DIVX. In the end, studio support mattered little - all studios quickly fell in line and went down the road where there was money to be made (so they followed the lead of the customer). Hence, I disagree with assessments that the format war is over, or would be over if Universal caved. Paramount's decision to drop DIVX is often seen as the point where the scales tipped - so if one of the studios standing in both camps is going to drop support for one of the HD formats, that's when I'd get worried, but before that you shouldn't spend too much time worrying about the numbers the Blu-ray camps is throwing at you - it's just spin.
If I were a studio, I wouldn't give a rat's ass about "attach rates." All that determines is how much profit the hardware manufacturers make. The only thing that would be important to me is how many discs I sell. If I can sell 1 million discs in one format and 600,000 in another, it'd make no difference to me whether there are 10x more players in the first. 1 million is 1 million and 600,000 is 400,000 fewer discs on my bottom line.
Thank God you don't own a studio then. Attachrates are important. It doesn't matter if Sony is generation billions in revenue for the PS3 if those people aren't buying movies. If selling discs is important to you then knowing the avg attachrate and how many players have been sold allows you to calculate what you "should" be selling. Kolchak ..come on you're better than this.
This is mumbo jumbo. Right now Blu-Ray is opening up a sizeable advantage. Some industry analysts are already calling it the format war over and done. I don't think so yet, but Blu-Ray is clearly winning at present. I also agree with Kolchak. The "attach rate" doesn't mean a goddamned thing. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Period.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers. You mention a sizable advantage you I know that you have no more hard data than I do. It's clear that Blu-ray enjoys a lead right now in movie releases. However it's also clear from the same source (Amazon) that HD DVD is doing well.
The Toshiba A2 is ranked #208
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
The XA2 is ranked #1203
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-XA2...&s=electronics
The Samsung BD player is #1399
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P10...&s=electronics
Here's the top breakdown of player sales. Note how the top 4 players are HD DVD
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
Thus when we're talking about Blu-ray we're talking about the impact of the PS3 which
is #43 and well behind the Wii and Xbox 360 20GB consoles
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...743726-9333443
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
In the end, all that matters is what you ARE selling. Blu-ray titles are almost always outselling the same titles on HD DVD right now, and often by a substantial margin, judging from the eproductwars charts. Why would I care if the 50,000 discs I sell is for 1 million, 10 million or 100 million machines? As long as it's more than the 35,000 discs that the HD DVD edition is selling, that would make it more attractive for me to concentrate on the better-selling market. Not to mention it's also an even bigger potential market. I'd have to be a total dunce not to realize that with that one right title that everyone wants, all of a sudden, there's a huge pool of players which, while their owners may not have bought many discs before, may decide to splurge on my title, because -- guess what? -- the players are already in the homes, already paid for. I suspect one such popular title that this might happen with may be Spider-Man 3, and as a Columbia (Sony) production, it'll be Blu-ray only. Honestly, do you think all these young males who already own PS3s and really like this kind of action movie will decide that they'd rather have the DVD for a buck or two less than the Blu-ray edition given that they already have the ability to play the better version?
And Murchie, Murchie, Murchie. It's obvious to anyone without a chip on his shoulder that SDW was referring to the SOFTWARE sales, while you steadfastly cling to your hardware figures. eproductwars does indeed say that Blu-ray titles are easily outselling HD DVD titles, and they're doing so on an individual basis as well as an overall basis.
Hmm, okay. Let me get this straight. You by some unforseen consequence believe that HD DVD player sales will increase by a factor of 10 (going from 200,000 to 2,000,000) with their less than 50% studio support and one ce manufacturer in Toshiba while Blu-ray will only increase by a factor of 3 (going from 2,000,000 to only 6,000,000 - http://www.vgcharts.org/) with approximately 85-90% studio support and 7 ce manufacturers in Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips Samsung, Sharp, and LG?
Wow, the delusions are rampant on this board.
You're forgetting that the 175k number at CES 2007 was North American sales only. The Euro launch hadn't happened and nor were the 50k or so Xbox add ons in the UK counted. As you can see from my post above with today's HD DVD player ranking...HD DVD is still selling solidly and that is despite a dearth of releases which is changing. The Digital Bits has a rumor about the titles coming from Universal. Many will be please.
So again lets reiterate.
2 million total players by years end for HD DVD worldwide. Oh yeah add Samsung to that list of laptop vendors shipping HD DVD product.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/01...urner-upgrade/
Samung has been shipping the M55 with HD DVD for months now in Asia.
Here's Universals release schedule
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html#030107
Now for that Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):
April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor
May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation
June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof
July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva
August - Heroes: Season One
September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People
Duh. Isn't that what I said, that the revenue of the hardware makers is irrelevant to the studios?
In the end, all that matters is what you ARE selling. Blu-ray titles are almost always outselling the same titles on HD DVD right now, and often by a substantial margin, judging from the eproductwars charts. Why would I care if the 50,000 discs I sell is for 1 million, 10 million or 100 million machines? As long as it's more than the 35,000 discs that the HD DVD edition is selling, that would make it more attractive for me to concentrate on the better-selling market. Not to mention it's also an even bigger potential market. I'd have to be a total dunce not to realize that with that one right title that everyone wants, all of a sudden, there's a huge pool of players which, while their owners may not have bought many discs before, may decide to splurge on my title, because -- guess what? -- the players are already in the homes, already paid for. I suspect one such popular title that this might happen with may be Spider-Man 3, and as a Columbia (Sony) production, it'll be Blu-ray only. Honestly, do you think all these young males who already own PS3s and really like this kind of action movie will decide that they'd rather have the DVD for a buck or two less than the Blu-ray edition given that they already have the ability to play the better version?
And Murchie, Murchie, Murchie. It's obvious to anyone without a chip on his shoulder that SDW was referring to the SOFTWARE sales, while you steadfastly cling to your hardware figures. eproductwars does indeed say that Blu-ray titles are easily outselling HD DVD titles, and they're doing so on an individual basis as well as an overall basis.
I believe he said "Period" and mentioned nothing about differentiating Hardware or Software. Software sales make sense. The only real blockbuster HD DVD has released lately has been The Departed which sales very well despite being 4 dollars more on Amazon.
I won't argue that content is Blu-ray's coup de grace. Without the content advantage Blu-ray would be finished as price really does trump all.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers.
It seems as the numbers change in favor of Blu-Ray folks decide that "no, really...THIS is the metric that is key".
It was inevitable that Blu-ray numbers would improve since they had an abysmal launch. Why would anyone think the current lower attach rates would be any different or any more significant to the discussion? There's no single all important metric and I'm guessing that personalities between movers and shakers are as much a factor in the game right now than any financial or technical measure.
Companies are run by people with their own biases and self interests. Until the numbers become meaningful they can indulge their biases. With so few machines and discs sold it's a market with potential but not that much reality behind it yet.
Vinea
You're forgetting that the 175k number at CES 2007 was North American sales only. The Euro launch hadn't happened and nor were the 50k or so Xbox add ons in the UK counted. As you can see from my post above with today's HD DVD player ranking...HD DVD is still selling solidly and that is despite a dearth of releases which is changing. The Digital Bits has a rumor about the titles coming from Universal. Many will be please.
Murch,...it is painfully obvious you are grasping for straws here. Ok, lets try and jump into that mind of yours just for fun. Lets count the 175k number, plus the 50,000 or so 360s from the UK you've claimed without a link, and heck lets even throw in another 75,000 (25,000 from Asia and 25,000 from UK) for standalones worldwide and another 25,000 360s for Asia. That's still only 300,000 HD DVD players guy. And again you are trying to claim an increase of players from HD DVD by almost a factor of 10 for 2007 with a corresponding increase for Blu-ray by a factor of 3.
Doesn't make much sense when you look at it logically, given the amount of content and hardware support given to each format. Especially given the amount of player sales and software sales of the last couple of months from Nielsen which shows Blu-ray leading the competition by a good margin.
So again lets reiterate.
2 million total players by years end for HD DVD worldwide. Oh yeah add Samsung to that list of laptop vendors shipping HD DVD product.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/01...urner-upgrade/
Samung has been shipping the M55 with HD DVD for months now in Asia.
Here's Universals release schedule
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html#030107
September of 2006 says hello. Yes, Samsung has a laptop with and HD DVD product, and it was announced around September of 2006. However, in November, Samsung stated this quite directly...
Samsung Bets All on Blu-Ray Player
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/...7390411880.htm
So, I wouldn't get too excited over the Samsung laptop drive there big guy. In regards to Universal's release schedule, it does indeed look nice, but lets see how many actually make it to production. I just can't get out of my head how HD DVD claimed they would have 200 movies out by the end of 2006, yet they managed only about a bit over half that. Now their claiming 300-400 titles out this year. Hmmhmm, I'll believe it when I see it, lets just leave it at that.
I do think HD DVD will deliver 2 million players. If true the Universal list is 60 titles strong out of the 100 exclusives they promised thus far. Warner and Paramount should be kicking in soon and Dreamworks looks ready to drop some movies. It really is going well for both formats. I think the studios will eventually realize that they have to mitigate their risks and find a way to deliver to both formats with one SKU. Warners Total HD is the first foray into this area.
Here's the top breakdown of player sales. Note how the top 4 players are HD DVD
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
Thus when we're talking about Blu-ray we're talking about the impact of the PS3 which
is #43 and well behind the Wii and Xbox 360 20GB consoles
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...743726-9333443
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
Wait, did I miss something here? You spend an entire posting talking about how well HD DVD players are selling then turn around and compare the PS3 sales to the Wii and the 360 rather than to those HD DVD players. Isn't that a total non sequitur, going from talking about HD players to talking about gaming consoles? You're not even comparing it to the sales of the 360's HD DVD drive, just the base 360. And why would the Wii's success or failure have anything to do with how well HD DVD is doing? If we're to compare apples to apples, shouldn't the PS3 sales still be kicking HD DVD player sales' butt?
Here's Universals release schedule
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html#030107
Now for that Universal news. Let's start with HD-DVD. Specific dates are still TBA, but here's what the studio is prepping for high-definition over the summer (most of the April and May titles are already confirmed):
April - The Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Game, The Jerk, The Hitcher, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, The Nutty Professor
May - Alpha Dog, The 40-Year-Old Virgin: Unrated, Smokey and the Bandit, Hurricane, Skeleton Key, The River, Midnight Run, The Frighteners, The Big Lebowski, Dragonheart, Lost in Translation
June - Breach, Bruce Almighty, Liar Liar, Sneakers, Born on the 4th of July, Scent of a Women, Daylight, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, Meet Joe Black, Mallrats, Being John Malkovich, Mystery Men, American Me, The Watcher, Bulletproof
July - Billy Madison, The War, The Wedding Date, Dante's Peak, Cat in the Hat, Dead Silence, The Bourne Identity, The Nutty Professor 2, In Good Company, Streets of Fire, Hot Fuzz, Sea of Love, Darkman, Shaun of the Dead, Deliver Us from Eva
August - Heroes: Season One
September - The Last Starfighter, Legend, Battlestar Galactica: Season One, For the Love of the Game, Knocked Up, Evening, The Getaway: Unrated, Patch Adams, Cat People
Not a single blockbuster in the bunch. In fact, it's about bloody time they put out a decent version of Last Starfighter. Their DVD release of that was shamefully mastered, all murky and dark, worse than broadcast and worse than VHS. But still not a good enough movie to get me to buy an HD DVD player. You seem to arguing for HD DVD now the same way you accuse Blu-ray of claiming better sales. Where Universal's concerned, it's all about quantity of titles rather than quantity of sales of each title, right? Flood the market with mediocre movies and hope they can collectively bring up sales figures for the format? Heck, I've never even heard of some of these titles, much less want to buy them. Hot Fuzz, a film that according to IMDb is direct-to-video in the US market? Alpha Dog, a title that made all of $15 million at the theaters last year? And Legend, Tom Cruise's legendarily panned flop? Bwahahahah! People must be beating down the doors for those. These are incredible exclusives all right. I don't know why anyone would possibly want a Blu-ray player which can't play these titles.
You can call if what you want. But any logical person would realize that the reason why attachrate are tracked is in fact because it is important to content providers. You mention a sizable advantage you I know that you have no more hard data than I do. It's clear that Blu-ray enjoys a lead right now in movie releases. However it's also clear from the same source (Amazon) that HD DVD is doing well.
The Toshiba A2 is ranked #208
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
The XA2 is ranked #1203
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-XA2...&s=electronics
The Samsung BD player is #1399
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P10...&s=electronics
Here's the top breakdown of player sales. Note how the top 4 players are HD DVD
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go
Thus when we're talking about Blu-ray we're talking about the impact of the PS3 which
is #43 and well behind the Wii and Xbox 360 20GB consoles
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...743726-9333443
Amazing how your "Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD period" statement falls apart upon scrutiny. My suggestion to you is to go back to the Politics thread where you feel a bit more comfortable delivering specious arguments. In this arena you are the prey upon and not the predator.
You're such a friggin' cheerleader. Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD. Yes? It has an advantage. It has more studio support. In other words, it's "winning" right now. That's all I'm saying. But you can't accept it...because you're too busy thinking/saying "HD-DVD, It's the ve-ry best for me! HD -DVD-it's the very best for me!"