All in all, HD/BD total movie sales isn't big enough yet to be considered as competing format to SD DVD, and this to me is a bigger worry than the HD vs. BD. I'm hoping Hi-Def formats would become little more affordable in the hardware pricing by the [y]ear end. ....
Bite, it doesn't matter how affordable HD becomes, average (WalMart) consumers are going to stay away from the HD formats because they feel that right now SD-DVD is "good enough" and who in their right mind buys into something when there's a format war. Personally I wish one of the HD formats would just GO AWAY immediately! Right now, that looks like HD-DVD because of lack of studio support.
Why not? Do you think the studios have come anywhere near exhausting their catalogs? There are many tens of thousands of movies available in their back catalogs. The few hundred they'll release this year will barely make a dent in that. Even with the blistering pace of SD DVD releases, there is a massive chunk of movies that have yet to see the light of a laser pickup, many of which are cult classics that quite a few people have been clamoring for for years. Not to mention an even larger pool of TV shows, although those are less suited to HD because they're not widescreen.
Now that's silly. Of course there will be a successor to DVD. It's just a matter of time. This isn't like the SACD debacle where CDs already exceed the limits of most people's hearing. TVs are getting bigger, and DVDs just don't look that good at large screen sizes, upconverted or not.
What you say is like somebody from the 1970s saying "Nobody wants a 60" TV." The truth was few people wanted to pay $10,000 for one and that remains true today. IIRC, the first Advent front-projection set was $6,000 around 1975 and had only a few hundred buyers, the classic early adopters. But prices go down, and now the thought of 60" TVs in mainstream living rooms doesn't seem so outlandish anymore, does it? The same will happen with HD. Do you think the TV networks would have spent tons their money investing in all this HD broadcast and production equipment if they weren't sure there was going to be a market? Nobody in their right mind expected HD discs to displace DVDs immediately any more than they expect the networks to suddenly dump all their SD broadcasts.
Good luck. But maybe this is a sign. Time to get a Wii! Rehab and have fun at the same time.
Hmm... once again, you have missed the point. It's however expected from you. It's ironic that such comments are coming from a person with the stance on the format war being uncommitted or a spectator from sideline. BTW, have you heard a SACD played on a proper system?
Bite, it doesn't matter how affordable HD becomes, average (WalMart) consumers are going to stay away from the HD formats because they feel that right now SD-DVD is "good enough" and who in their right mind buys into something when there's a format war. Personally I wish one of the HD formats would just GO AWAY immediately! Right now, that looks like HD-DVD because of lack of studio support.
Temporarily true. I don't think your wish will come true, though. If you're interested in the HD format, then expect a long haul battle. My only fear is when no one wins. I however see it in little different angle. When HD format hardware players come down close to around $199 - $249 and the hi-def format movies are being sold at a same price range as the SD-DVD's, then even the J6P will probably get the Hi-Def format as a future proofing purchase decision. Hence, the price war of the format will determine the winner in th end.
cheers yeah.. wii or not to wii that is the question need to do a little more walking first but by then the PS3 will be out... so...whatch gonna do?
That's why you want the Wii. Sitting around with a PS3 isn't going to help you recover. Gotta get up and jump around like a fool. Who cares if it's a highly inefficient way to play? For instance, one employee at CNet figured out that swinging your fists like you're actually punching someone may feel good, but it doesn't work well in the boxing game. Better to rabbit punch quickly over and over, which wouldn't do anything to your opponent in the real world. But don't tell that to the Wii zealots who insist that the Wii gives you more exercise and is much more fun to play by using gross motions (yeah, it must be lots of fun to lose badly to your opponent, who's using the old standbys of finesse, timing and technique rather than brute force).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trendannoyer
a win is a win, is a win IS A WIN!
its STILL a WIN! good GROTH ALMIGHTY!
Well, this is Murch's take on it: "But they're CHEATING by having more studios!"
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
Never spoken in absolutes? how about...
Come spring I think Blu-Ray will be dead and buried, you can quote me on that.
I might have alzheimers, but I remembered that one.
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
That's bullshit. All of it. There is no real advantage for HD-DVD. I find it hysterically hypocritcal that YOU would actually someone a "cheerleader."
You opted in to HD-DVD and you're going to stick with it come hell or high water. That's what this is about. You'll use any data...any data whatsoever to try and show that things aren't looking so bad.
In reality, Blu-Ray is winning. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
That's bullshit. All of it. There is no real advantage for HD-DVD. I find it hysterically hypocritcal that YOU would actually someone a "cheerleader."
You opted in to HD-DVD and you're going to stick with it come hell or high water. That's what this is about. You'll use any data...any data whatsoever to try and show that things aren't looking so bad.
In reality, Blu-Ray is winning. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
Again..I never said I wouldn't own Blu-ray but I'm supporting the better format TODAY. Just because you keep saying something doesn't mean it's true. By the end of 2008 my goal is to have %100 access to packaged HD media.
Jules ...I don't know if I said that or not. Perhaps I'll search for it and see. It's not that I don't like Blu-ray it's that I don't like it as much as HD DVD. The value as far as technical specs isn't there for me. The only thing they have is content and a more expensive platform.
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
Again..I never said I wouldn't own Blu-ray but I'm supporting the better format TODAY. Just because you keep saying something doesn't mean it's true. By the end of 2008 my goal is to have %100 access to packaged HD media.
Jules ...I don't know if I said that or not. Perhaps I'll search for it and see. It's not that I don't like Blu-ray it's that I don't like it as much as HD DVD. The value as far as technical specs isn't there for me. The only thing they have is content and a more expensive platform.
Yeah, yeah, you've been spouting the same blather in points 1, 2 and 3 since 2005. You swore it was going go make Blu-ray disks far too expensive compared to HD DVD and they'd never get the disks out in quantity because they were too hard to make. Cut to 2007 and they're cheaper and out in larger quantities than HD DVD disks.
Yeah, I guess Blu-ray doesn't offer anything else other than content and a "more expensive platform." Well, maybe a more durable disk. What does HD DVD offer? Slightly cheaper players. Whoopee.
Simplicity isn't always a virtue. BD-J is more complicated, but there's also a much longer roadmap there. Just like the BD launch, it started slow but will eventually overtake HDi in terms of capability. When you want simple, you also generally sacrifice potential.
By the end of 2008, we'll all have 100% access to packaged HD media. Universal will have gone neutral and we'll be able to get everything on a single player. A Blu-ray player. Haste makes waste.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules
Never spoken in absolutes? how about...
Come spring I think Blu-Ray will be dead and buried, you can quote me on that.
I might have alzheimers, but I remembered that one.
But it's not spring yet! And he doesn't remember if he wrote this. Boy, he really is bipolar. Or maybe his Alzheimers is worse than yours.
Yeah, yeah, you've been spouting the same blather in points 1, 2 and 3 since 2005. You swore it was going go make Blu-ray disks far too expensive compared to HD DVD and they'd never get the disks out in quantity because they were too hard to make. Cut to 2007 and they're cheaper and out in larger quantities than HD DVD disks.
Yeah, I guess Blu-ray doesn't offer anything else other than content and a "more expensive platform." Well, maybe a more durable disk. What does HD DVD offer? Slightly cheaper players. Whoopee.
Simplicity isn't always a virtue. BD-J is more complicated, but there's also a much longer roadmap there. Just like the BD launch, it started slow but will eventually overtake HDi in terms of capability. When you want simple, you also generally sacrifice potential.
By the end of 2008, we'll all have 100% access to packaged HD media. Universal will have gone neutral and we'll be able to get everything on a single player. A Blu-ray player. Haste makes waste.
But it's not spring yet! And he doesn't remember if he wrote this. Boy, he really is bipolar. Or maybe his Alzheimers is worse than yours.
Wrong ..I never swore the discs would be more expensive. I knew before Blu-ray's launch that Sony was subsidizing disc production for the Majors. I knew then that consumers wouldn't see much of a difference if at all for Blu-ray vs HD DVD movies. However small studios like say....Adult Movie studios don't get the subsidy and looky at how they all jumped on HD DVD when the saw the "true" costs of having discs pressed.
LOL you post is shy on actual and spends too much time taking jabs at me. I didn't think you knew more about these platforms to me and it show. Your posts have no content just accusatory blathering. Come back and debate when you've learned more about the platform you keep cheerleading about. You didn't even get the launch dates right between HD DVD and Blu-ray.
this place is very strange i tell ya. everywhere i go, majority of news sources still have everything on the fence, if not saying bluray so far is a failure for sony.
i've seen it on g4 tv, at gizmodo, in forbes magazine, a bunch of other sites that bluray is seeing an increase in sales because of the ps3 but that this might die down very quickly. yet in here people are blowing their victory horns, kind of like sony has done before the ps3 or even bluray were released.
i mean we get people in here so pro ps3 but yet dont even own one, let a lone play games, or surf the gaming sites to see the shalacking the ps3 is gettign from the communty
this place is very strange i tell ya. everywhere i go, majority of news sources still have everything on the fence, if not saying bluray so far is a failure for sony.
i've seen it on g4 tv, at gizmodo, in forbes magazine, a bunch of other sites that bluray is seeing an increase in sales because of the ps3 but that this might die down very quickly. yet in here people are blowing their victory horns, kind of like sony has done before the ps3 or even bluray were released.
i mean we get people in here so pro ps3 but yet dont even own one, let a lone play games, or surf the gaming sites to see the shalacking the ps3 is gettign from the communty
\
Gizmodo? You think Gizmodo is a news source? They're infamous as one of the most anti-Blu-ray sites out there. Forbes' tech coverage is a joke. I've seen so many errors in there, it's not funny. You know, for every "source" you cite, I can cite another that says HD DVD is on the ropes, like Cnet and Gearlog, where they spent about 10 minutes discussing the fate of the HD war on one of their podcasts. Not one author pushing his own opinion without opposition, mind you, but several people discussing the topic. If you want people blowing victory horns prematurely, how about good old Murch himself, who wrote on 1/4/06:
Quote:
$499 HD DVD players. Game over! Bwahahahahaahaha
So it's 14 months later. Has the game been over that long now?
You're no better yourself. Four days later, you were fairly sure HD DVD players would drop to $200 to 300 by last summer.
Murch also wrote the greater durability of Blu-ray disks "cannot be proven." I'd say it's been proven pretty conclusively by product demonstrations and Netflix disks.
On 9/27/2005, Murch wrote:
Quote:
Only partially true. HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as DVD. They both employ similar Numerical Aperture this is why a DVD-9 Pressing Plant can be upgraded to HD-DVD for 150k (source Rick Marquardt industry vet)
Blu-Ray requires a whole new pressing plant estimated at 2 million capital outlay (source Rick Marquardt)
Any economy of scale that Blu-Ray sees will undoubtedly be seen by HD-DVD as well meaning HD-DVD should be the price leader for quite some time.
How long was "quite some time," since Blu-ray now matches or beats HD DVD prices in many cases? (Most cases, if eproductwars' graphs are right, with average Amazon price now being 4 bucks cheaper.)
I'm still waiting for Murch to "quickly correct me" that Universal isn't distributing any Blu-ray disks overseas. He threatened, no, promised to do so then shut up right quick when confronted with citations.
This just in from Digitalbits:
Quote:
Warner confirmed that it will continue to support both HD formats equally, and will release everything that's been issued already HD-DVD on Blu-ray Disc
So much for all the rumor-mongering in this thread that Warner would release lots of stuff exclusively on HD DVD because BD-J was "broken."
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
HD DVD will win/lose depending on the content. It's not Blu-ray that will win outright but win by proxy. I find that to be most interesting about the battle. If the content was exactly the same across platforms who would be winning this battle?
What I find interesting is that you assume this is a market where all things should be equal. It has been said for a long time, including by the major manufacturers, the death of HD-DVD is going to be by its lack of support. It lacks support from movie studios and it lacks support from CE companies and there are no signs that is going to change and increasingly it looks that following December's launch of products by the major players Blu-Ray's position is becoming more solid.
The reasons for that don't matter at the end of the day if you buy into HD-DVD you are buying into a format that is less supported.
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
What's with all the ad hominem attacks in this thread? It's a bloody disc format, guys.
What's with all the ad hominem attacks in this thread? It's a bloody disc format, guys.
Like women, 'geeks' cannot fathom the concept of being wrong in any way! This thread will thrive, handbags at dawn, until someone buys flowers and says sorry.
Note:
I jest. Geeks is used as a term of endearment and not a offensive slur (geek is chic and I consider myself one of the same).
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
Blu-ray with its protective covers is more 3 year old resistant than HD-DVD. This is is of no importance to the "HD loving consumer" if there is no cost difference. Given that there is no consumer price difference the advantage is with Blu-ray.
Quote:
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
So long as Blu-ray players play DVDs and CDs and are the same cost as HD-DVD players this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers". Given this will be the case moving forward - no advantage.
Quote:
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
So long as Blu-ray discs the same cost as HD-DVD discs this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers". Given this is the case - no advantage.
Quote:
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
PIP and other features will be mandatory after June with Profile 1.1. When Profile 2.0 is mandatory you'll also have network connectivity.
All Blu-ray players have 64KB of storage under Profile 1.0 and 256MB under Profile 1.1.
Currently HD-DVD has an advantage until June 2007. However the majority of Blu-ray players (the PS3) can be upgraded to Profile 2.0.
"Mandatory" 2 ch TrueHD is useless for movie playback.
Quote:
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
Given that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs will require QA to make sure the interactivity features work this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers" as the end result is debugged, compiled code or debugged working scripts and XML. Java is likely going to offer more interactivity features than HDi in the long run.
Either no advantage or advantage Blu-Ray.
Quote:
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
25k players purchased by early adoptors who know the score. So what? Presumably they did so in order to watch Blu-ray exclusive movies before everyone else.
In any case, for your 5 criteria only 1 is a HD-DVD advantage and that one only temporary for the "HD loving consumer". The long term advantages of hard coat far outweighs that. If the Java advantages that Gosling postulates pans out that's a long term advantage for HD consumers as well.
So your "reasons" are bunk. Your other points "less DRM" and "no region coding" might have merit for the consumer except that the HD-DVD Forum is looking at region coding (excuse me...Region Protection Coding) and both have managed copy. At least Blu-Ray is down to 3 regions. IIRC the HD-DVD forum will move to implement RPC this year.
"2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD)."
Then why doesn't the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 support CD's and yet the PS3 does?
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
Ah.... sound of desperation. If you can't have an open discussion bouncing opposing reasons back and forth without throwing a jab on every opportunity, this is a sign of a pre-adolescent.
Looking back few of your posts just show how angry you are and just ready to argue at every point instead of reasoning and replying in the form of a debate. So, your friends are fifth-graders?(no disrespect intended, just need to clear the status)
"2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD)."
Then why doesn't the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 support CD's and yet the PS3 does?
I think the CD play back may be related to software support than hardware. All standalone HD-DVD players play CD's & DVD's and also can upconvert SD video contents.
Comments
...
All in all, HD/BD total movie sales isn't big enough yet to be considered as competing format to SD DVD, and this to me is a bigger worry than the HD vs. BD. I'm hoping Hi-Def formats would become little more affordable in the hardware pricing by the [y]ear end. ....
Bite, it doesn't matter how affordable HD becomes, average (WalMart) consumers are going to stay away from the HD formats because they feel that right now SD-DVD is "good enough" and who in their right mind buys into something when there's a format war. Personally I wish one of the HD formats would just GO AWAY immediately! Right now, that looks like HD-DVD because of lack of studio support.
Why not? Do you think the studios have come anywhere near exhausting their catalogs? There are many tens of thousands of movies available in their back catalogs. The few hundred they'll release this year will barely make a dent in that. Even with the blistering pace of SD DVD releases, there is a massive chunk of movies that have yet to see the light of a laser pickup, many of which are cult classics that quite a few people have been clamoring for for years. Not to mention an even larger pool of TV shows, although those are less suited to HD because they're not widescreen.
Now that's silly. Of course there will be a successor to DVD. It's just a matter of time. This isn't like the SACD debacle where CDs already exceed the limits of most people's hearing. TVs are getting bigger, and DVDs just don't look that good at large screen sizes, upconverted or not.
What you say is like somebody from the 1970s saying "Nobody wants a 60" TV." The truth was few people wanted to pay $10,000 for one and that remains true today. IIRC, the first Advent front-projection set was $6,000 around 1975 and had only a few hundred buyers, the classic early adopters. But prices go down, and now the thought of 60" TVs in mainstream living rooms doesn't seem so outlandish anymore, does it? The same will happen with HD. Do you think the TV networks would have spent tons their money investing in all this HD broadcast and production equipment if they weren't sure there was going to be a market? Nobody in their right mind expected HD discs to displace DVDs immediately any more than they expect the networks to suddenly dump all their SD broadcasts.
Good luck. But maybe this is a sign. Time to get a Wii! Rehab and have fun at the same time.
Hmm... once again, you have missed the point. It's however expected from you. It's ironic that such comments are coming from a person with the stance on the format war being uncommitted or a spectator from sideline. BTW, have you heard a SACD played on a proper system?
Bite, it doesn't matter how affordable HD becomes, average (WalMart) consumers are going to stay away from the HD formats because they feel that right now SD-DVD is "good enough" and who in their right mind buys into something when there's a format war. Personally I wish one of the HD formats would just GO AWAY immediately! Right now, that looks like HD-DVD because of lack of studio support.
Temporarily true. I don't think your wish will come true, though. If you're interested in the HD format, then expect a long haul battle. My only fear is when no one wins. I however see it in little different angle. When HD format hardware players come down close to around $199 - $249 and the hi-def format movies are being sold at a same price range as the SD-DVD's, then even the J6P will probably get the Hi-Def format as a future proofing purchase decision. Hence, the price war of the format will determine the winner in th end.
cheers
That's why you want the Wii. Sitting around with a PS3 isn't going to help you recover. Gotta get up and jump around like a fool. Who cares if it's a highly inefficient way to play? For instance, one employee at CNet figured out that swinging your fists like you're actually punching someone may feel good, but it doesn't work well in the boxing game. Better to rabbit punch quickly over and over, which wouldn't do anything to your opponent in the real world. But don't tell that to the Wii zealots who insist that the Wii gives you more exercise and is much more fun to play by using gross motions (yeah, it must be lots of fun to lose badly to your opponent, who's using the old standbys of finesse, timing and technique rather than brute force).
a win is a win, is a win IS A WIN!
its STILL a WIN! good GROTH ALMIGHTY!
Well, this is Murch's take on it: "But they're CHEATING by having more studios!"
a win is a win, is a win IS A WIN!
its STILL a WIN! good GROTH ALMIGHTY!
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
Never spoken in absolutes? how about...
Come spring I think Blu-Ray will be dead and buried, you can quote me on that.
I might have alzheimers, but I remembered that one.
You're too busy cheeleading for one side and the only casualty is your character. My champion is HD loving consumers. If HD DVD pissed me off I'd cast them away just as fast. In the battle of "Lesser of two evils" I choose HD DVD as the format that is best for consumers.
Argueing with you folks is pointless really. You all care about being right more than anything. Kolchak won't buy a HD DVD at any price so says he. What kind of idiot blocks themselves from content in a turf battle they have no vested stake in?
My logic is quite clear. I support HD DVD because I believe it is the best platform for consumers.
Less DRM
More full featured players with interactivy and networking in every model.
cheaper prices
no region encoding
I chose it for what I consider to be logical reasons. Thus I fight for HD DVD not because I want to be right but because I believe in the format as it stands now. I've never said I wouldn't own a Blu-ray player and I do believe that amongst the Blu-ray players the PS3 is the best choice. I've never spoken in absolutes so any attempt to box me in a corner isn't going to work.
I know what I like and what I don't like about the respective platforms enough to articulate why I've made my decision. Even I realize the hypocrisy of me supporting Universal's stance on exclusivity which I accept because it keeps HD DVD viable although I abhor studios holding content for ransom.
That's bullshit. All of it. There is no real advantage for HD-DVD. I find it hysterically hypocritcal that YOU would actually someone a "cheerleader."
You opted in to HD-DVD and you're going to stick with it come hell or high water. That's what this is about. You'll use any data...any data whatsoever to try and show that things aren't looking so bad.
In reality, Blu-Ray is winning. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
That's bullshit. All of it. There is no real advantage for HD-DVD. I find it hysterically hypocritcal that YOU would actually someone a "cheerleader."
You opted in to HD-DVD and you're going to stick with it come hell or high water. That's what this is about. You'll use any data...any data whatsoever to try and show that things aren't looking so bad.
In reality, Blu-Ray is winning. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
Again..I never said I wouldn't own Blu-ray but I'm supporting the better format TODAY. Just because you keep saying something doesn't mean it's true. By the end of 2008 my goal is to have %100 access to packaged HD media.
Jules ...I don't know if I said that or not. Perhaps I'll search for it and see. It's not that I don't like Blu-ray it's that I don't like it as much as HD DVD. The value as far as technical specs isn't there for me. The only thing they have is content and a more expensive platform.
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
Again..I never said I wouldn't own Blu-ray but I'm supporting the better format TODAY. Just because you keep saying something doesn't mean it's true. By the end of 2008 my goal is to have %100 access to packaged HD media.
Jules ...I don't know if I said that or not. Perhaps I'll search for it and see. It's not that I don't like Blu-ray it's that I don't like it as much as HD DVD. The value as far as technical specs isn't there for me. The only thing they have is content and a more expensive platform.
Yeah, yeah, you've been spouting the same blather in points 1, 2 and 3 since 2005. You swore it was going go make Blu-ray disks far too expensive compared to HD DVD and they'd never get the disks out in quantity because they were too hard to make. Cut to 2007 and they're cheaper and out in larger quantities than HD DVD disks.
Yeah, I guess Blu-ray doesn't offer anything else other than content and a "more expensive platform." Well, maybe a more durable disk. What does HD DVD offer? Slightly cheaper players. Whoopee.
Simplicity isn't always a virtue. BD-J is more complicated, but there's also a much longer roadmap there. Just like the BD launch, it started slow but will eventually overtake HDi in terms of capability. When you want simple, you also generally sacrifice potential.
By the end of 2008, we'll all have 100% access to packaged HD media. Universal will have gone neutral and we'll be able to get everything on a single player. A Blu-ray player. Haste makes waste.
Never spoken in absolutes? how about...
Come spring I think Blu-Ray will be dead and buried, you can quote me on that.
I might have alzheimers, but I remembered that one.
But it's not spring yet!
Yeah, yeah, you've been spouting the same blather in points 1, 2 and 3 since 2005. You swore it was going go make Blu-ray disks far too expensive compared to HD DVD and they'd never get the disks out in quantity because they were too hard to make. Cut to 2007 and they're cheaper and out in larger quantities than HD DVD disks.
Yeah, I guess Blu-ray doesn't offer anything else other than content and a "more expensive platform." Well, maybe a more durable disk. What does HD DVD offer? Slightly cheaper players. Whoopee.
Simplicity isn't always a virtue. BD-J is more complicated, but there's also a much longer roadmap there. Just like the BD launch, it started slow but will eventually overtake HDi in terms of capability. When you want simple, you also generally sacrifice potential.
By the end of 2008, we'll all have 100% access to packaged HD media. Universal will have gone neutral and we'll be able to get everything on a single player. A Blu-ray player. Haste makes waste.
But it's not spring yet!
Wrong ..I never swore the discs would be more expensive. I knew before Blu-ray's launch that Sony was subsidizing disc production for the Majors. I knew then that consumers wouldn't see much of a difference if at all for Blu-ray vs HD DVD movies. However small studios like say....Adult Movie studios don't get the subsidy and looky at how they all jumped on HD DVD when the saw the "true" costs of having discs pressed.
LOL you post is shy on actual and spends too much time taking jabs at me. I didn't think you knew more about these platforms to me and it show. Your posts have no content just accusatory blathering. Come back and debate when you've learned more about the platform you keep cheerleading about. You didn't even get the launch dates right between HD DVD and Blu-ray.
i've seen it on g4 tv, at gizmodo, in forbes magazine, a bunch of other sites that bluray is seeing an increase in sales because of the ps3 but that this might die down very quickly. yet in here people are blowing their victory horns, kind of like sony has done before the ps3 or even bluray were released.
i mean we get people in here so pro ps3 but yet dont even own one, let a lone play games, or surf the gaming sites to see the shalacking the ps3 is gettign from the communty
this place is very strange i tell ya. everywhere i go, majority of news sources still have everything on the fence, if not saying bluray so far is a failure for sony.
i've seen it on g4 tv, at gizmodo, in forbes magazine, a bunch of other sites that bluray is seeing an increase in sales because of the ps3 but that this might die down very quickly. yet in here people are blowing their victory horns, kind of like sony has done before the ps3 or even bluray were released.
i mean we get people in here so pro ps3 but yet dont even own one, let a lone play games, or surf the gaming sites to see the shalacking the ps3 is gettign from the communty
Gizmodo? You think Gizmodo is a news source? They're infamous as one of the most anti-Blu-ray sites out there. Forbes' tech coverage is a joke. I've seen so many errors in there, it's not funny. You know, for every "source" you cite, I can cite another that says HD DVD is on the ropes, like Cnet and Gearlog, where they spent about 10 minutes discussing the fate of the HD war on one of their podcasts. Not one author pushing his own opinion without opposition, mind you, but several people discussing the topic. If you want people blowing victory horns prematurely, how about good old Murch himself, who wrote on 1/4/06:
$499 HD DVD players. Game over! Bwahahahahaahaha
So it's 14 months later. Has the game been over that long now?
You're no better yourself. Four days later, you were fairly sure HD DVD players would drop to $200 to 300 by last summer.
Murch also wrote the greater durability of Blu-ray disks "cannot be proven." I'd say it's been proven pretty conclusively by product demonstrations and Netflix disks.
On 9/27/2005, Murch wrote:
Only partially true. HD-DVD uses the same disc structure as DVD. They both employ similar Numerical Aperture this is why a DVD-9 Pressing Plant can be upgraded to HD-DVD for 150k (source Rick Marquardt industry vet)
Blu-Ray requires a whole new pressing plant estimated at 2 million capital outlay (source Rick Marquardt)
Any economy of scale that Blu-Ray sees will undoubtedly be seen by HD-DVD as well meaning HD-DVD should be the price leader for quite some time.
How long was "quite some time," since Blu-ray now matches or beats HD DVD prices in many cases? (Most cases, if eproductwars' graphs are right, with average Amazon price now being 4 bucks cheaper.)
I'm still waiting for Murch to "quickly correct me" that Universal isn't distributing any Blu-ray disks overseas. He threatened, no, promised to do so then shut up right quick when confronted with citations.
This just in from Digitalbits:
Warner confirmed that it will continue to support both HD formats equally, and will release everything that's been issued already HD-DVD on Blu-ray Disc
So much for all the rumor-mongering in this thread that Warner would release lots of stuff exclusively on HD DVD because BD-J was "broken."
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
HD DVD will win/lose depending on the content. It's not Blu-ray that will win outright but win by proxy. I find that to be most interesting about the battle. If the content was exactly the same across platforms who would be winning this battle?
What I find interesting is that you assume this is a market where all things should be equal. It has been said for a long time, including by the major manufacturers, the death of HD-DVD is going to be by its lack of support. It lacks support from movie studios and it lacks support from CE companies and there are no signs that is going to change and increasingly it looks that following December's launch of products by the major players Blu-Ray's position is becoming more solid.
The reasons for that don't matter at the end of the day if you buy into HD-DVD you are buying into a format that is less supported.
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
What's with all the ad hominem attacks in this thread? It's a bloody disc format, guys.
What's with all the ad hominem attacks in this thread? It's a bloody disc format, guys.
Like women, 'geeks' cannot fathom the concept of being wrong in any way! This thread will thrive, handbags at dawn, until someone buys flowers and says sorry.
Note:
I jest. Geeks is used as a term of endearment and not a offensive slur (geek is chic and I consider myself one of the same).
My champion is HD loving consumers.
1. HD DVD uses the same .6mm sandwiched disc. No "Durabis" or other protective covers needed.
Blu-ray with its protective covers is more 3 year old resistant than HD-DVD. This is is of no importance to the "HD loving consumer" if there is no cost difference. Given that there is no consumer price difference the advantage is with Blu-ray.
2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD).
So long as Blu-ray players play DVDs and CDs and are the same cost as HD-DVD players this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers". Given this will be the case moving forward - no advantage.
3. Because the file structure of HD DVD is similar to DVD existing DVD-9 plants can retrofit their line to support HD DVD. Or conversely adding a HD DVD line means you've added a DVD-9 capable line as well. Blu-ray requires a new line that ONLY presses BD ROM.
So long as Blu-ray discs the same cost as HD-DVD discs this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers". Given this is the case - no advantage.
4. With HD DVD you have a nice base set of features that are mandatory. Persistent storage is required in every player for storing bookmarks and whatever else you want. Every HD DVD player has two audio and video decoders. The PiP functions use this feature for the In Movie Experience on many discs. The secondary audio decoders couple with a built in mixer that allows the dialogue and soundtrack element levels to be modiefied in some players. Networking is mandatory..you cannot buy a HD DVD player without having a networking feature and standard open network protocol is supported. Mandatory lossless TrueHD (at least 2-channel) is in every player.
PIP and other features will be mandatory after June with Profile 1.1. When Profile 2.0 is mandatory you'll also have network connectivity.
All Blu-ray players have 64KB of storage under Profile 1.0 and 256MB under Profile 1.1.
Currently HD-DVD has an advantage until June 2007. However the majority of Blu-ray players (the PS3) can be upgraded to Profile 2.0.
"Mandatory" 2 ch TrueHD is useless for movie playback.
5. HDi interactivity is based on ecmascript, XML and a dynamic syntax. It is not a bytecode language like Java so there are no class libraries that need to be stored nor do you have to compile and then debug.
Given that both HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs will require QA to make sure the interactivity features work this is a non-issue for "HD loving consumers" as the end result is debugged, compiled code or debugged working scripts and XML. Java is likely going to offer more interactivity features than HDi in the long run.
Either no advantage or advantage Blu-Ray.
This is why I choose HD DVD. There's a reason why Blu-ray has a new 1.1 profile coming out for June that adds persistent storage and some other stuff taken from HD DVD. This also means that the 25k or so players out there that aren't PS3 are SoL.
25k players purchased by early adoptors who know the score. So what? Presumably they did so in order to watch Blu-ray exclusive movies before everyone else.
In any case, for your 5 criteria only 1 is a HD-DVD advantage and that one only temporary for the "HD loving consumer". The long term advantages of hard coat far outweighs that. If the Java advantages that Gosling postulates pans out that's a long term advantage for HD consumers as well.
So your "reasons" are bunk. Your other points "less DRM" and "no region coding" might have merit for the consumer except that the HD-DVD Forum is looking at region coding (excuse me...Region Protection Coding) and both have managed copy. At least Blu-Ray is down to 3 regions. IIRC the HD-DVD forum will move to implement RPC this year.
Vinea
Then why doesn't the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 support CD's and yet the PS3 does?
I think I'm going to have to stop reading your posts. Aside from the poor logic, the total lack of apparent writing skills gives me a headache. I actually showed a fifth-grader some of your posts some days ago. He honestly doesn't think you're an adult who can or has graduated high school. Pretty damning from a pre-adolescent.
Ah.... sound of desperation. If you can't have an open discussion bouncing opposing reasons back and forth without throwing a jab on every opportunity, this is a sign of a pre-adolescent.
Looking back few of your posts just show how angry you are and just ready to argue at every point instead of reasoning and replying in the form of a debate. So, your friends are fifth-graders?(no disrespect intended, just need to clear the status)
"2. Because the Numerical Aperture of HD DVD is similar to DVD you can use the same lens assembly to support both Blue and Red laser diodes. In contrast Blu-ray has to support two significantly different NA and that's a reason why the first generation Sony BD player did not support CD playback and DVD support was added at the last minute (prototypes didn't support DVD)."
Then why doesn't the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 support CD's and yet the PS3 does?
I think the CD play back may be related to software support than hardware. All standalone HD-DVD players play CD's & DVD's and also can upconvert SD video contents.