Apple iTV availability to escape Macworld Expo

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  • Reply 41 of 188
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post


    That's too bad, because I get broadband through my cable, and my router sits right next to my TV.



    Heh...I think I prefer that my computer has the ethernet connection than my TV...and at 15Mbps I'm somewhat happier than I was with Comcast... $10 for an extra 10 Mbps was kinda a nice to have and only $4 more than what I was paying Comcast for 6Mbps.



    Vinea
  • Reply 42 of 188
    Hehe, yeah, I hate Comcast. The latency lately has been ridiculous. I was just being a bit of a dick because obviously everyone has very different setups



    But I think lots of people have both cable and phone ports near their TVs.
  • Reply 43 of 188
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wilco View Post


    Yes there is.



    I think that person meant "other than so you can continue being an ass".
  • Reply 44 of 188
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    If we assume that the article is correct and a software glitch is holding up iTV, wouldn't that be an indication that the iPhone is going to be delayed? Isn't also going to have a 'light' version of OSX?
  • Reply 45 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    If we assume that the article is correct and a software glitch is holding up iTV, wouldn't that be an indication that the iPhone is going to be delayed? Isn't also going to have a 'light' version of OSX?



    I seems more realistic to think of it as beefed up iPod rather than a dumbed down Mac. I can't imagine why anyone thinks that a simple appliance, like the iTV, would have an "OS X lite".
  • Reply 46 of 188
    jvbjvb Posts: 210member
    It definitely won't have "OSX Lite". It will have a simple interface probably along the detail level of the iPod. The iTV depends entirely upon either a Mac or PC in the household. There is no use for advanced functions on the actual device. Unless they surprise us and reveal that iTV will incorporate web browsing or something.
  • Reply 47 of 188
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    If we assume that the article is correct and a software glitch is holding up iTV, wouldn't that be an indication that the iPhone is going to be delayed? Isn't also going to have a 'light' version of OSX?



    Who knows?



    The OS for a phone is likely to be very different than for a media machine though.



    They could be on two completely different development tracks.
  • Reply 48 of 188
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I seems more realistic to think of it as beefed up iPod rather than a dumbed down Mac. I can't imagine why anyone thinks that a simple appliance, like the iTV, would have an "OS X lite".



    It would depend on what Apple intends for it.



    Don't forget that todays iPod is much more sophisticated than the original.
  • Reply 49 of 188
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jvb View Post


    It definitely won't have "OSX Lite". It will have a simple interface probably along the detail level of the iPod. The iTV depends entirely upon either a Mac or PC in the household. There is no use for advanced functions on the actual device. Unless they surprise us and reveal that iTV will incorporate web browsing or something.



    " Unless they surprise us"



    Well, now, that's what Apple is all about, isn't it?



    They may have big plans for this.



    I wouldn't be surprised if they already have models in the idea box for 2015!



    If so, they would want to make this so that the future models build upon it rather than having to start over again with each model.



    How better to do that than to control it with an OS and use software features?



    Of course, that would mean a basic cpu and support chips as well, and at the price...



    Well, we'll see.
  • Reply 50 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It would depend on what Apple intends for it.



    Don't forget that todays iPod is much more sophisticated than the original.





    It seems obvious that it is simply a media extender. A way to get your media content to your living room. A Front Row type interface is all that is needed atop an iPod-like OS. After all, this is Apple we are talking about and simple is always at their core.



    There will be no DVR.

    There will be no Blu-ray.

    There won't even be a DVD/CD drive. These functions are best handled by a full fledged PC, not a living room appliance.



    I bet my internet porn watching, blog reading, Mac-related website scouring lack-of-a-life on it.
  • Reply 51 of 188
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It seems obvious that it is simply a media extender. A way to get your media content to your living room. A Front Row type interface is all that is needed atop an iPod-like OS. After all, this is Apple we are talking about and simple is always at their core.



    There will be no DVR.

    There will be no Blu-ray.

    There won't even be a DVD/CD drive. These functions are best handled by a full fledged PC, not a living room appliance.



    I bet my internet porn watching, blog reading, Mac-related website scouring lack-of-a-life on it.



    The basic idea is for a media "extender" for sure.



    But what makes you think that anyone here has predicted that it will include anything else you mentioned?



    It might include the ABILITY to utilise those formats, but not to have the physical hardware.



    Wow, doesn't sound like you are betting anything worthwhile. I'll put two bucks up against it!
  • Reply 52 of 188
    I think the iTV is better thought of as an Apple take on the Networked Media Player (NMP) concept, but with a local disk cache.



    I have a JVC/AVeL ProHD SRDVD-100U NMP at home that I'm testing out. 802.11g just doesn't cut it today - I experience serious drop-outs and pregnant pauses when trying to stream media to the device over wireless, especially HD media like DivX 6 HD content (I have the BBC's "Planet Earth" TV series in this format - 1440x1080i DivX 6 HD AVI files). These same files play just fine when I burn them to DVD-R and play them directly inside the player (which, unlike many NMP's, has a disc tray - but no internal hard drive). Short of 802.11n providing a steady 100 Mbit-or-higher bandwidth link, existing wireless just isn't going to work. If iTV doesn't have 802.11n, I think what Apple will have to do is set up the iTV so that it can easily interface to your Mac elsewhere to download content from (via iTunes or whathaveyou) to the local caching internal hard drive, and then use Front Row to play said content from there. With Toshiba's MK1011GAH 1.8" disk reaching 100 GB in size, using it as a local disk cache for streamed media is a reasonably practical solution.



    I've been looking at Mac-friendly NMP's with internal disks (but no disc trays) like the $249 TViX M-4000P and the $450 Pixel Magic Systems MB100/MB200 series (which, as of the just-released firmware rev. 1.3.5a, now have support for HFS+ formatted internal drive volumes, btw), and basically consider an internal hard drive to be a necessity, given the issues with streaming over wireless. My living room is 50 feet from my computer room and I have an old house without Ethernet wiring (and I don't want to tear it apart to get it wired), so that's not an option for me. To me, having a local disk cache is the best of all worlds - it guarantees that playback will not be affected by network issues. I'd rather stream my media over wireless to the internal hard drive, not directly to the screen.



    Another issue to consider with the iTV is what video circuitry it will have. Will it contain an ATi or nVidia chipset, like regular Macs, with software decoding of the various video media codecs? Or will it use hardware decoder chips, and with support for a range of media types that will force Apple to use the Sigma chipsets (such as the new Sigma Designs EM8622L chipset) like most of the other NMP's do? I don't know about you, but I care about video quality (I have a Denon and an Oppo for DVD players), and using what would be, effectively, the equivalent of VLC playing through an existing Mac connected to a TV via DVI just doesn't cut it with me. If Apple isn't going to support some of the codecs that the Sigma chipsets support (such as DivX 6 HD) then maybe they should go the Oppo route and use a Faroudja DCDi FLI 2310 chip for premium quality video output.
  • Reply 53 of 188
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd? View Post


    I think the iTV is better thought of as an Apple take on the Networked Media Player (NMP) concept, but with a local disk cache.



    I have a JVC/AVeL ProHD SRDVD-100U NMP at home that I'm testing out. 802.11g just doesn't cut it today - I experience serious drop-outs and pregnant pauses when trying to stream media to the device over wireless, especially HD media like DivX 6 HD content (I have the BBC's "Planet Earth" TV series in this format - 1440x1080i DivX 6 HD AVI files). These same files play just fine when I burn them to DVD-R and play them directly inside the player (which, unlike many NMP's, has a disc tray). Short of 802.11n providing a steady 100 Mbit-or-higher bandwidth link, existing wireless just isn't going to work. If iTV doesn't have 802.11n, I think what Apple will have to do is set up the iTV so that it can easily interface to your Mac elsewhere to download content from (via iTunes or whathaveyou) to the local caching internal hard drive, and then use Front Row to play said content from there. With Toshiba's MK1011GAH 1.8" disk reaching 100 GB in size, using it as a local disk cache for streamed media is a reasonably practical solution.



    I've been looking at Mac-friendly NMP's with internal disks (but no disc trays) like the $249 TViX M-4000P and the $450 Pixel Magic Systems MB100/MB200 series (who just released a firmware rev. that now has support for HFS+ formatted volumes this last week, btw), and basically consider an internal hard drive to be a necessity, given the issues with streaming over wireless. My living room is 50 feet from my computer room and I have an old house without Ethernet wiring (and I don't want to tear it apart to get it wired), so that's not an option for me. To me, having a local disk cache is the best of all worlds - it guarantees that playback will not be affected by network issues. I'd rather stream my media over wireless to the internal hard drive, not directly to the screen.



    Another issue to consider with the iTV is what video circuitry it will have. Will it contain an ATi or nVidia chipset, like regular Macs, with software decoding of the various video media codecs? Or will it use hardware decoder chips, and with support for a range of media types that will force Apple to use the Sigma chipsets (such as the new Sigma Designs EM8622L chipset) like most of the other NMP's do?



    some good questions!



    I wish I had time to respond properly, but I've got to run out for a few hours. \
  • Reply 54 of 188
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post


    Where 'Apple's format' is to be read as 'anything QuickTime plays, including a myriad of Windows codecs if you have the plugins, ala Perian'. If Apple is going to go to all the trouble to write a 'embedded OS X', and have QuickTime running on it (and they'd be insane not to), then you can be pretty damned certain that it'll have the same plugin architecture.



    The only major thing I wouldn't expect it to play would be DRM'd WMV files for which there is *no* Mac codec.



    Why, what were you expecting? MPEG-4 + FairPlay and that's all? Talk about a product killer.



    Ah, but you missed my point. It all depends on the OS. If its more iPod-like then computer-like, and, as such, there's no direct access to the computer/OS, you're not getting any windows codecs in the machine except for what apple "approves". And Quicktime/Apple doesn't like WMA/WMV. Never have, never will (ipod still doesn't play it, does it?).



    And as for other formats, Apple hasn't been embracing those, either. For if they did, you wouldn't need to get Perian or the likes.



    But what other movies/videos except those from the iTMS are you all expecting this thing to be playing? Because I can't really see the point in ripping all my DVDs onto my Mac just because I might decide at some point to watch one of them, or desire to flip between them quickly (unlike music).
  • Reply 55 of 188
    louzerlouzer Posts: 1,054member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    I believe the USB port on the back of iTV is for attaching external storage.

    I have a strong feeling that Apple is going to start selling external hard drives soon.

    Perhaps even a small RAID unit designed for the SOHO market.



    Time Machine could back up files to this networked RAID which is optionally attached to an iTV.

    iTV could also access the contents of the RAID unit for always available content even when no laptops are home.



    Man, I hope that's not what Apple is planning on that USB port for. Who the hell wants to start attaching extra components/hard drives to the entertainment center? (Well, except Apple, who apparently believes all users want external storage, and internal storage is like so 1990s).



    And then consumers, who've already spent the $250 for the iTV, then the $150 for the Apple-branded external drive, need to spend another $500+ for some RAID system? Exactly when does this thing become cost-effective?
  • Reply 56 of 188
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    And Quicktime/Apple doesn't like WMA/WMV.



    That certainly isn't one sided MS doesn't even bother make WM player for the Mac.



    Quote:

    Man, I hope that's not what Apple is planning on that USB port for. Who the hell wants to start attaching extra components/hard drives to the entertainment center?



    What's the problem with offering the option?



    Quote:

    And then consumers, who've already spent the $250 for the iTV, then the $150 for the Apple-branded external drive, need to spend another $500+ for some RAID system?



    Now you are reaching for complaints. Why would Apple bother with such a simple device with so many hard drive manufacturers out there.
  • Reply 57 of 188
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    Man, I hope that's not what Apple is planning on that USB port for. Who the hell wants to start attaching extra components/hard drives to the entertainment center?



    Pretty much all the network media players on the market have a USB port. It is a handy feature with little additional cost and no added interface complexity.



    It is convenient to cary a bus-powered drive between my house and the houses of friend's with home theaters. Heck, even an iPod will work. We can share movies and music with great ease. I've also loaded it up with high-res images from my house restoration. It was quite convenient to play them back on a friend's network media player from the comfort of their couch. I think that this type of usage could explode with kids and college students. Surprisingly, a sneaker-net still offers the highest resolution and reliability for video playback. Although I do think that usb support is just auxiliary functionality when compared with network media playback.



    Also, I haven't finished pulling cat-6 everywhere in my house yet. In the mean time, I've used the usb drive to hold a few seasons of shows. Every week or so I take five minutes to load up some new seasons or episodes.



    Of course, not everyone will need the USB port. But plenty of other people do need it and it costs so little.
  • Reply 58 of 188
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    It'll be a dead duck for Europeans, <snip> Lack of downloadable video content. If they don't offer content (and don't support easy additions of your own content - aka DVDs) then why buy it?



    Agreed. Same goes for Australia/NZ. For this reason, I'm hoping DVD-Jon's system for allowing 3rd parties to sell content direct to iTunes/iPods/iTV will get around this.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    I'm very excited about Mac OS X Lite.

    The iTV could become the first Mac that many people purchase.

    It could become another gateway drug to future Mac purchases.

    The iTV could further enhance the halo effect.



    I hope that the iTV treats Windows-iTunes with equal respect as OSX-iTunes. Either way, every Mac user is a potential iTV customer.... but it would be better for Apple if every iTunes user was a potential iTV customer. We may need iPhoto for Windows to help there, too.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    Back when this was originally reported there was some discussion about whether <Disney's CEO> knows what he's talking about. He sounded like a non-techy making up an explanation of how the system _might_ work..



    I agree. Having it's own hard disk could be his interpretation of cache when he was told "well, it's kinda like having it's own hard disk". I do think (hope?) flash based storage is on the cards.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    I believe the USB port on the back of iTV is for attaching external storage..



    I always figured it was for a USB TV Tuner Of course, little point if there's no local storage. In my dreams, I'd love to see the system record FTA TV in addition to downloading shows (subscribe or rent, not buy). It'd need to recompress the FTA to a smaller h264 file in its downtime of course. This would replace most need for any cable TV setup.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    If we assume that the article is correct and a software glitch is holding up iTV, wouldn't that be an indication that the iPhone is going to be delayed? Isn't also going to have a 'light' version of OSX?



    It depends on which rumours you read. My best rumour interpretation is that there are 2 iPhones. One is an full redesigned amazing phone that Apple is having trouble completing but is due later this year. The other is a simpler design working with traditional principles, far easier to make, and cheaper (due real soon)...
  • Reply 59 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Louzer View Post


    Ah, but you missed my point. It all depends on the OS. If its more iPod-like then computer-like, and, as such, there's no direct access to the computer/OS, you're not getting any windows codecs in the machine except for what apple "approves". And Quicktime/Apple doesn't like WMA/WMV. Never have, never will (ipod still doesn't play it, does it?).



    And as for other formats, Apple hasn't been embracing those, either. For if they did, you wouldn't need to get Perian or the likes.



    But what other movies/videos except those from the iTMS are you all expecting this thing to be playing? Because I can't really see the point in ripping all my DVDs onto my Mac just because I might decide at some point to watch one of them, or desire to flip between them quickly (unlike music).



    I can play all AVIs and Windows Media files in Quicktime and iTunes without issue. If you need a list of these codecs, let us know.



    I expect the decoding (and authentication of iTS content) will take place on the computer the same way Front Row works... only over the network.



    Same goes for your DVDs. Just place the disc in the optical drive and iTV will play from its Front Row DVD menu. I beleive that MPEG-2 DVD have a max of about 10mb/sec. Which is easy for 802.11g, assuming that the iTV's port number(s) are given highest priority... which I'm sure Apple will do.
  • Reply 60 of 188
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post


    I hope that the iTV treats Windows-iTunes with equal respect as OSX-iTunes. Either way, every Mac user is a potential iTV customer.... but it would be better for Apple if every iTunes user was a potential iTV customer. We may need iPhoto for Windows to help there, too.



    Of all questions about the iTV, that is the one I think about the most. It seems like a great way for Apple to finally get the rest of the WIndows community to "see the light". But how well will would it work with WIndows out of the box? Will Apple create software that introduces iPhoto (like you said), Bonjour zero-config. networking, and DVD playback to Windows? This seems like a very big undertaking.





    EDIT: I just noticed that there is QT Picture Viewer app in Windows under Program Files/Quicktime.
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