Spring in the US, where Apple is incorporated, and makes most of its major announcements, takes place from March 21st through June 20th.
Call it what you may from where you live, those are the relevant dates.
All right, that's what I was asking.
I'm sure you can understand how I wondered if, even though those are the official dates, maybe people _in the US_ informally consider "spring" to be, for example, March-May, so that is what Apple may have meant, too?dates anywhere outside the US never were the issue. That is all.
(My wondering is understandable, considering the disagreement* there is on the subject, and that was what I was trying to illustrate?nothing more: I only wanted someone to say, ?Yeah, I see your point on how meteorologically it's arguable. In fact, everyone in the US understands ?spring? as being [date A] through [date B].??nothing more. I could've done without the gratuitous aggression, though.)
*
"In the United States, Memorial Day, in late May, is the unofficial kickoff for summer..."
"Summer is defined by convention in meteorology as the whole months of June, July, and August, in the Northern Hemisphere..."
A thread about the announced date of the WWDC turns into an argument about the seasons?
I stand back in awe.
Hahaha
I just want to know when I can get my Leopard--I didn't ask for hostility! But damn if I'm not gonna jump at the opportunity for a fight over technicalities. No, really, I just wanted to get to what "spring" means.
Forget about what Steve said. When do you feel Leopard is coming? I feel March myself.
That'd be great, but isn't it impossible, what with them big features coming? I think it might come toward the end of the time cited (which is why I want to know when "spring" ends), but I guess we just don't know--I wouldn't be surprised if it came late-March.
I don't want to get astronomical, but the day the month begins is arbitrary. Starting the season there makes no sense.
What sense does it make having any set date at all, the seasons start and end when they do, we can all see the sun/moon and feel when it is warm or cold.
I did not ask what the sense was in starting at the beginning of a month or middle or end, nor did I mean to imply any sillines on the part of USA for doing it this way, I was just asking to find out if there was any other reason for it to happen that way in your home land.
Here in Australia we state that summer begins on 1 December and ends on 28 Feb (or 29 with a leap year) but it makes no difference to what the weather is actually doing, it is just an easy way to mark a calander.
I'm sure you can understand how I wondered if, even though those are the official dates, maybe people _in the US_ informally consider "spring" to be, for example, March-May, so that is what Apple may have meant, too?dates anywhere outside the US never were the issue. That is all.
(My wondering is understandable, considering the disagreement* there is on the subject, and that was what I was trying to illustrate?nothing more: I only wanted someone to say, ?Yeah, I see your point on how meteorologically it's arguable. In fact, everyone in the US understands ?spring? as being [date A] through [date B].??nothing more. I could've done without the gratuitous aggression, though.)
*
"In the United States, Memorial Day, in late May, is the unofficial kickoff for summer..."
"Summer is defined by convention in meteorology as the whole months of June, July, and August, in the Northern Hemisphere..."
What sense does it make having any set date at all, the seasons start and end when they do, we can all see the sun/moon and feel when it is warm or cold.
I did not ask what the sense was in starting at the beginning of a month or middle or end, nor did I mean to imply any sillines on the part of USA for doing it this way, I was just asking to find out if there was any other reason for it to happen that way in your home land.
Here in Australia we state that summer begins on 1 December and ends on 28 Feb (or 29 with a leap year) but it makes no difference to what the weather is actually doing, it is just an easy way to mark a calander.
Scott
It may not matter any more, but it's tradition. People find it hard to lose their traditions, and this is one of the oldest of all.
It's also convenient to use the season as a delineator, esp. in countries where there is a big difference. The closer one gets to the equator, the less it matters. the same is true for some countries whose weather is determined by the ocean weather to a great extent.
In New York, where I live, winter is very different from spring or fall.
Btw, the following website is what the BBC has to say about the change of seasons. Doesn't seem to support any of the alternate "theories" being floated on this forum.
Btw, the following website is what the BBC has to say about the change of seasons. Doesn't seem to support any of the alternate "theories" being floated on this forum.
That may be because the website is designed for simplicity and clarity rather than for complete accuracy.
example:
Quote:
Summer
The day the north pole is nearest the Sun is called the 'summer solstice'.
Actually, with the earths elliptical orbit, the entire planet is closer to the sun when it is winter in the northern hemisphere. I believe its closest point (perihelion) is in January. The entire planet is about 4 million miles closer to the sun than in July.
I certainly wouldn't look to that website for a difinitive answer...
June 21 is the solstice, not the equinox. And yes, that is the start of summer ? on the Northern Hemisphere that is. (With the possible exception of the UK apparently...)
I have it on good authority that one of the new features in Leopard will be a widget that tells people when their frickin' seasons start and end..
I hope it's localised, otherwise we'll have to wait for June for Summer here and we'll never have an Autumn. And think how many Australians will be confused!
Over here in the UK, it's the middle of summer. If someone was asked what season any day in June was here, they'd say 'Summer'. June 21 is the equinox or 'Midsummer'.
British Summer Time officially starts on Sunday 25th March 2007 until Sunday 28th October 2007. I think that's just us being optimistic though as everyone knows the British Summer lasts about 3 days in July.
So winter ends in March and summer begins the next day, when is spring? Here in NY summer last till the end of september.
It's a bit frustrating to have people argue things that can easily be looked up first.
You've just _got_ to be kidding me.
I'd hoped we'd let it go, but you had to say something like this.
1. As is obscenely obvious from my rants above, I did indeed look it up, and well
2. Informal, unspoken conventions such as this aren't "easily looked up," as evidenced by other people's posts in this thread; they are, however, very easily clarified
3. What is certainly least "frustrating" is to avoid artificial, misunderstanding-based and likely unenlightened-emotions-driven arguments like the ones you insist upon
I propose we call it a misunderstanding, and respectfully disagree, as gentlemen (I am certainly not a gentleman, but I think we can fake it and get away with). This, of course, means no accusations or attacks (however implicit). Cheers.
Comments
So can any of you Americans explain why your seasons begin mid month rather than
the start of months?
Just a question for curiosity sake
Scott
They (seasons) all begin on a solar event - either solstice or equinox.
So can any of you Americans explain why your seasons begin mid month rather than
the start of months?
Just a question for curiosity sake
Scott
Because that's when seasons begin?
Seasons aren't determined by months. They're determined by the Earth's rotation. The Vernal Equinox is March 21st, ergo, spring starts on March 21st.
Ok, the last time for me.
Spring in the US, where Apple is incorporated, and makes most of its major announcements, takes place from March 21st through June 20th.
Call it what you may from where you live, those are the relevant dates.
All right, that's what I was asking.
I'm sure you can understand how I wondered if, even though those are the official dates, maybe people _in the US_ informally consider "spring" to be, for example, March-May, so that is what Apple may have meant, too?dates anywhere outside the US never were the issue. That is all.
(My wondering is understandable, considering the disagreement* there is on the subject, and that was what I was trying to illustrate?nothing more: I only wanted someone to say, ?Yeah, I see your point on how meteorologically it's arguable. In fact, everyone in the US understands ?spring? as being [date A] through [date B].??nothing more. I could've done without the gratuitous aggression, though.)
*
"In the United States, Memorial Day, in late May, is the unofficial kickoff for summer..."
"Summer is defined by convention in meteorology as the whole months of June, July, and August, in the Northern Hemisphere..."
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer
...and several more...
A thread about the announced date of the WWDC turns into an argument about the seasons?
I stand back in awe.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
A thread about the announced date of the WWDC turns into an argument about the seasons?
I stand back in awe.
Hahaha
I just want to know when I can get my Leopard--I didn't ask for hostility! But damn if I'm not gonna jump at the opportunity for a fight over technicalities. No, really, I just wanted to get to what "spring" means.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
A thread about the announced date of the WWDC turns into an argument about the seasons?
I stand back in awe.
Forget about what Steve said. When do you feel Leopard is coming? I feel March myself.
Forget about what Steve said. When do you feel Leopard is coming? I feel March myself.
That'd be great, but isn't it impossible, what with them big features coming? I think it might come toward the end of the time cited (which is why I want to know when "spring" ends), but I guess we just don't know--I wouldn't be surprised if it came late-March.
So can any of you Americans explain why your seasons begin mid month rather than
the start of months?
Just a question for curiosity sake
Scott
I don't want to get astronomical, but the day the month begins is arbitrary. Starting the season there makes no sense.
I don't want to get astronomical, but the day the month begins is arbitrary. Starting the season there makes no sense.
What sense does it make having any set date at all, the seasons start and end when they do, we can all see the sun/moon and feel when it is warm or cold.
I did not ask what the sense was in starting at the beginning of a month or middle or end, nor did I mean to imply any sillines on the part of USA for doing it this way, I was just asking to find out if there was any other reason for it to happen that way in your home land.
Here in Australia we state that summer begins on 1 December and ends on 28 Feb (or 29 with a leap year) but it makes no difference to what the weather is actually doing, it is just an easy way to mark a calander.
Scott
All right, that's what I was asking.
I'm sure you can understand how I wondered if, even though those are the official dates, maybe people _in the US_ informally consider "spring" to be, for example, March-May, so that is what Apple may have meant, too?dates anywhere outside the US never were the issue. That is all.
(My wondering is understandable, considering the disagreement* there is on the subject, and that was what I was trying to illustrate?nothing more: I only wanted someone to say, ?Yeah, I see your point on how meteorologically it's arguable. In fact, everyone in the US understands ?spring? as being [date A] through [date B].??nothing more. I could've done without the gratuitous aggression, though.)
*
"In the United States, Memorial Day, in late May, is the unofficial kickoff for summer..."
"Summer is defined by convention in meteorology as the whole months of June, July, and August, in the Northern Hemisphere..."
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer
...and several more...
It's a bit frustrating to have people argue things that can easily be looked up first.
What sense does it make having any set date at all, the seasons start and end when they do, we can all see the sun/moon and feel when it is warm or cold.
I did not ask what the sense was in starting at the beginning of a month or middle or end, nor did I mean to imply any sillines on the part of USA for doing it this way, I was just asking to find out if there was any other reason for it to happen that way in your home land.
Here in Australia we state that summer begins on 1 December and ends on 28 Feb (or 29 with a leap year) but it makes no difference to what the weather is actually doing, it is just an easy way to mark a calander.
Scott
It may not matter any more, but it's tradition. People find it hard to lose their traditions, and this is one of the oldest of all.
It's also convenient to use the season as a delineator, esp. in countries where there is a big difference. The closer one gets to the equator, the less it matters. the same is true for some countries whose weather is determined by the ocean weather to a great extent.
In New York, where I live, winter is very different from spring or fall.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/s...escience.shtml
Btw, the following website is what the BBC has to say about the change of seasons. Doesn't seem to support any of the alternate "theories" being floated on this forum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/s...escience.shtml
That may be because the website is designed for simplicity and clarity rather than for complete accuracy.
example:
Summer
The day the north pole is nearest the Sun is called the 'summer solstice'.
Actually, with the earths elliptical orbit, the entire planet is closer to the sun when it is winter in the northern hemisphere. I believe its closest point (perihelion) is in January. The entire planet is about 4 million miles closer to the sun than in July.
I certainly wouldn't look to that website for a difinitive answer...
June 21 is the solstice, not the equinox. And yes, that is the start of summer ? on the Northern Hemisphere that is. (With the possible exception of the UK apparently...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer
No you are right. 21 Jun is the first day of summer, the summer solstice and the longest day of the year.
I have it on good authority that one of the new features in Leopard will be a widget that tells people when their frickin' seasons start and end..
I hope it's localised, otherwise we'll have to wait for June for Summer here and we'll never have an Autumn. And think how many Australians will be confused!
Officially? in the USA?
Over here in the UK, it's the middle of summer. If someone was asked what season any day in June was here, they'd say 'Summer'. June 21 is the equinox or 'Midsummer'.
British Summer Time officially starts on Sunday 25th March 2007 until Sunday 28th October 2007. I think that's just us being optimistic though as everyone knows the British Summer lasts about 3 days in July.
So winter ends in March and summer begins the next day, when is spring? Here in NY summer last till the end of september.
It's a bit frustrating to have people argue things that can easily be looked up first.
You've just _got_ to be kidding me.
I'd hoped we'd let it go, but you had to say something like this.
1. As is obscenely obvious from my rants above, I did indeed look it up, and well
2. Informal, unspoken conventions such as this aren't "easily looked up," as evidenced by other people's posts in this thread; they are, however, very easily clarified
3. What is certainly least "frustrating" is to avoid artificial, misunderstanding-based and likely unenlightened-emotions-driven arguments like the ones you insist upon
I propose we call it a misunderstanding, and respectfully disagree, as gentlemen (I am certainly not a gentleman, but I think we can fake it and get away with). This, of course, means no accusations or attacks (however implicit). Cheers.
It's OK. Steve called and said the WWDC has been cancelled. Something about Mac users having lost their fucking minds.
Hahaha