Apple to target Vista at retail stores

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 128
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,409member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Well, something's going on. In the last year or so there has been a sharp uptick of people who apparently don't have much use for Apple going out of their way to register at an Apple enthusiasts site and post about how contemptible the "Apple fan boys" are.



    Just to put things in perspective, imagine if an Apple fan registered at one of the PC enthusiast sites and started posting about how deluded and blind they all were, that PCs were OK for what they did but anybody that didn't get why OS X was teh win was just sad.



    Think the "non-fan boy" world of PC enthusiasts would politely consider his points? Or even show them the fairly low key dissent that has been shown here?



    They would run his ass out on a rail, and we all know it.



    Fan boy is as fan boy does.



    I'm with you. So let us Apple fans (I am too old to be a fanboy lol, started with Apple ][) kick them out. If we complain to moderators or click the red exclamation mark maybe something will happen. Mean time tell all Mac fans to ignore them.
  • Reply 102 of 128
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I'm with you. So let us Apple fans (I am too old to be a fanboy lol, started with Apple ][) kick them out. If we complain to moderators or click the red exclamation mark maybe something will happen. Mean time tell all Mac fans to ignore them.





    Just because other disagree that does not make them trolls. There have been no personal attacks in this thread only debates. All you have done is pat people on the back that you agree with and call the ones you don't trolls.



    You haven't made a single point worth anything. There is nothing wrong with debating or disagreeing on topics, grow up if you can't handle people that disagree with your point of view you don't need to be on the internet, for that matter might as well lock yourself in house and turn off the tv.



    Must be sad to have the personality that you have to ignore ones that offer a difference of opinion.
  • Reply 103 of 128
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    Just because other disagree that does not make them trolls. There have been no personal attacks in this thread only debates. All you have done is pat people on the back that you agree with and call the ones you don't trolls.



    Well, as far as personal attacks go, didn't you say that Steve Jobs was on meds? 8O



    However, Jobs ain't here, far as I know, so I guess its ok. And your point about folks yelling "troll" everytime they don't agree with someone is well taken. I myself have been called a troll here for daring to disagree with the Apple Apologista Squad (TM) on various matters, such as Apple's pricing and product line-up. Even though its pretty obvious that I'm a bigtime Apple fan.



    That said, you do seem unusually interested in all things Apple for a PC fan. I guess things are pretty Dullsville on the Dark Side?



    Seriously though, I don't think you should be banned or your posts removed, unless you decide to get personal or go into some tired PC fanboy anti-Apple rant. Those are useless, and we've heard them all before.



    So, as long as you're on your manners, I'm happy to have you here, extreme. Even if I don't agree wit' ya much. 8)



    .
  • Reply 104 of 128
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Well, as far as personal attacks go, didn't you say that Steve Jobs was on meds? 8O



    However, Jobs ain't here, far as I know, so I guess its ok. And your point about folks yelling "troll" everytime they don't agree with someone is well taken. I myself have been called a troll here for daring to disagree with the Apple Apologista Squad (TM) on various matters, such as Apple's pricing and product line-up. Even though its pretty obvious that I'm a bigtime Apple fan.



    That said, you do seem unusually interested in all things Apple for a PC fan. I guess things are pretty Dullsville on the Dark Side?



    Seriously though, I don't think you should be banned or your posts removed, unless you decide to get personal or go into some tired PC fanboy anti-Apple rant. Those are useless, and we've heard them all before.



    So, as long as you're on your manners, I'm happy to have you here, extreme. Even if I don't agree wit' ya much. 8)



    .



    LOL. That would be personal attacks on other members. Attacking Steve Jobs or Bill Gates is a given its expected given there status kind of like Dems attacking the Republicans.



    Its okay to attack the topic or the idea just not another member of the forum which I guess sometimes happens when people get their feathers ruffled.



    The troll thing is dumb, im sure this foum has had them all forums get them but even some of your long time members express there displeasure on certain apple/mac issues. To just start calling peopld trolls because they offer a difference of opinion is just plain silly. Im 39, I have better thing to do than troll a forum.



    You and I have had a good debate and we were able to do so without attacking each other, doesnt mean we are always going to agree and thats actually a good thing, wouldnt it be rather boring if everyone just blindly agreed on the same topic?



    I actually agree with many of your points and im sure you don't believe that pcs or ms are as evil as the devil.



    In the long run good solid competition between both companies will benifit you and I and every end user.



    Let me add one other thing just so we understand where im coming from. Ive worked in the tech industry since I was 19 so going on 20 years. Ive used so many software products over my life I can't even remember most of them. I currently have my gaming system core 2 duo 6800, a 24" iMac and I still even run a system with OS2 warp for fun. In fact about 15 years ago OS2 warp was awesome and was great for dual boot networks.



    I do currently work for IBM but try not to hold that against me..lol.
  • Reply 105 of 128
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Yay! A voice of reason in the wilderness. Good post, Guinness. 8)





    .



    Um...I didn't bother to comment but I do recall that the Model T was moderately successful...



    Vinea
  • Reply 106 of 128
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post




    Must be sad to have the personality that you have to ignore ones that offer a difference of opinion.



    There's difference of opinion and there's suggesting that Mac users are morons that can't use computers.



    And then there's inflating the price of a product by $100 while slamming it. I don't know how $599 becomes $700.



    I think I can go on, but those are pretty good in reinforcing my point.



    If you don't want to be considered a troll, don't try to be so inflammatory.
  • Reply 107 of 128
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Well, something's going on. In the last year or so there has been a sharp uptick of people who apparently don't have much use for Apple going out of their way to register at an Apple enthusiasts site and post about how contemptible the "Apple fan boys" are.



    Just to put things in perspective, imagine if an Apple fan registered at one of the PC enthusiast sites and started posting about how deluded and blind they all were, that PCs were OK for what they did but anybody that didn't get why OS X was teh win was just sad.



    Think the "non-fan boy" world of PC enthusiasts would politely consider his points? Or even show them the fairly low key dissent that has been shown here?



    They would run his ass out on a rail, and we all know it.



    Fan boy is as fan boy does.



    I think this is just the after-burn from all of the switchers...I can only speak for me, so here goes



    I made a huge monitery investment (from my prospective) in the switch: getting the Mac, the subsequent tiger upgrade, and some other odds-and-ends like Office...now I look at my Mac Mini saying "gee, a 2 year old PC could just be upgraded to 2GB of ram and a newer GPU (all-be-it still AGP, but that isnt a huge problem) to gain the proformance that I really want"



    and the next person that says to me "shut up and buy a macpro," is going to get a rolled-up Macworld Magazine to the head..."pro-sumers" do not need a server dressed up like a tower (i.e. a high end workstation class unit)



    Apple knows exactly what this segment wants and refuses to sell such an animal...I love the OS, but if they can not sell me what I am willing to pay a large premium for then forget it...



    I still love and recommend apple laptops though.



    Appl is a great platform, their desktop selection just blows.
  • Reply 108 of 128
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post




    and the next person that says to me "shut up and buy a macpro," is going to get a rolled-up Macworld Magazine to the head..."pro-sumers" do not need a server dressed up like a tower (i.e. a high end workstation class unit)



    I agree on the first part, but I really don't think the second part is a fully reasonable statement. Several other companies have been dressing up "server" parts as workstations for quite some time. It's been considered a legitimate configuration for about a decade now. The only difference is that Apple's not offering lesser tower configurations, which is the part that's truly the problem.
  • Reply 109 of 128
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Software protection and scanners

    Use common sence no one wants to grow your penis by three inches, bill gates isnt giving free trips to disney land and so on

    Safty via hardware like NAT routing

    Expertiese...I am an IT professional so I have an advantage over 95% of the windows market.



    S - Sold out

    U - Under novell

    S - Soon

    E - Extinct



    Okay...moderately lame but as a distro SUSE seems to me on the same path as Caldera as a distro...and we all know that Caldera ended badly. Not that I'm a FSF fan. The latest FSF posturing on Novell is IMHO as reprehesible as what SCO attempted to do.



    Personally I'd give FSF the finger and transistion the userland to BSD atop a linux kernel for 99.99% compatibility with Linux. It would be an odd duck though. Almost as odd as OSX but I think Mach gives OSX the wierdness advantage in any discussion.



    But I digress...



    Vinea
  • Reply 110 of 128
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Okay...moderately lame but as a distro SUSE seems to me on the same path as Caldera as a distro...and we all know that Caldera ended badly. Not that I'm a FSF fan. The latest FSF posturing on Novell is IMHO as reprehesible as what SCO attempted to do.



    Personally I'd give FSF the finger and transistion the userland to BSD atop a linux kernel for 99.99% compatibility with Linux. It would be an odd duck though. Almost as odd as OSX but I think Mach gives OSX the wierdness advantage in any discussion.



    I hear that Ubuntu's supposed to be pretty good. I haven't had a chance to try it.



    FSF is a bunch of quacks but their stuff is a relatively small fraction of what's on a Linux boot CD.
  • Reply 111 of 128
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    The only difference is that Apple's not offering lesser tower configurations, which is the part that's truly the problem.



    Bingo! You can get a pretty killer expandable PC desktop for $1000-1500 these days. And Vista, while not the equal of even Tiger, will be considered by many to be 'good enough'.



    So where's the Apple product to compete with this? Cue Apple Apologista Squad:



    1- "Go get a Mac Pro then."- Uhh... bullsheeite. Many folks don't want to pay $2500. Next.



    2- "Most people never use the expandability their systems have." - True. But many folks still LIKE THE IDEA of being able to expand/upgrade their systems, and buy based partly on that. If Apple doesn't think these folks' money is as green as folks who truly need expandability, they are smoking something powerful they should share with me. \



    3- "Go buy a Windows box then." - This is just, plain d-u-m-b. There are many disaffected Windows users out there, who would be happy to switch given a reasonable alternative. We're getting some of them now, but we could get many more. And the key to getting many more is NOT to have a "my way or the highway" type attitude. Give the consumer what they want, and they will beat a path to your door. It's a cardinal rule of business.



    Why Apple is so glacially slow to change its bad old 'milk the fixed base' ways in the days of the Windows switcher tidal wave, I'll never know. C'mon Steve, this is Apple Inc. now... Think Different. 8)



    .
  • Reply 112 of 128
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    I made a huge monitery investment (from my prospective) in the switch: getting the Mac, the subsequent tiger upgrade, and some other odds-and-ends like Office...now I look at my Mac Mini saying "gee, a 2 year old PC could just be upgraded to 2GB of ram and a newer GPU (all-be-it still AGP, but that isnt a huge problem) to gain the proformance that I really want"



    Um...as a technically competent person you bought a SFF computer and then are dissapointed that its not as expandable as a tower?



    The 2 year old PC doesn't offer the same ease of use as the mini.



    /shrug



    What CAN'T your mini run today? Other than bootcamp? Its not like you won't be able to run Leopard (assuming you're at 1GB) either so its not like needing to upgrade that 2 year old PC with 2GB ram and GPU to run Vista.



    Quote:

    and the next person that says to me "shut up and buy a macpro," is going to get a rolled-up Macworld Magazine to the head..."pro-sumers" do not need a server dressed up like a tower (i.e. a high end workstation class unit)



    Apple knows exactly what this segment wants and refuses to sell such an animal...I love the OS, but if they can not sell me what I am willing to pay a large premium for then forget it...



    I still love and recommend apple laptops though.



    Appl is a great platform, their desktop selection just blows.



    Effectively Apple doesn't offer any traditional desktops...just laptops and workstations in various configurations some less mobile than others.



    As far as "this segment"...well Apple doesn't address all segments. Pro-sumers can largely be addressed with the iMac.



    Yes, yes, you're locked into a display. So what? I have 3 CRT monitors along with 3 old PCs gathering dust in my basement that I'm too much of a packrat to throw away. An iMac gathering dust there in 5 years time is no different. A 19-20" WS display is what? $200?



    And a 17" iMac + 24" Ultrasharp is $20 less than the 24" iMac so if it bothered you that much for the 24" you have an alternative that would let you gift your 17" iMac to a relative when you're done and keep your spiffy 24" for your next machine...and dual screens is useful enough for most "pro-sumers" to be worth the hassle. Dual 24s would of course be better but most folks today have dual 20s if they dual at all.



    Perhaps a tad odd looking with a 24-17 dual but I dual between a 30" ACD and a 17" MBP from time to time and that's even more awkward.



    Vinea
  • Reply 113 of 128
    Being a website developer I decided this past fall that I would buy a Macbook to use for browser compatibility testing. So I read the Apple forums and all of the disasters related to Random Shutdown and waited for the Core 2 Duo's to come out. I found it astonishing the amount of delay it took Apple to update the CPU?s to Core 2 Duo?s. When I spend my money on a brand new computer I want the latest and faster components? available to me. Frankly every computer in the store was already out of date and needed to be refreshed with new CPU?s. If Apple is going to play with the big boys at Intel they need to be in sync with Intel. The day Intel announces new chips Dell and others have models ready to ship the same day. But where is Apple? One Month, two months, three months later they finally release a new updated model, only after a Steve ?Dog and Pony? show. Meanwhile the inventory in the store is old and outdated.



    So now the new model is available. I go to the Apple store at The Grove in LA, a very big store. All of the little fancy placards displaying the Model name, price and features are removed from the store. Why? This is an Apple Store! Well you see if you did not know to ask for the newer model you would have left the store with the old one. You HAD TO ASK for the new model kept in the stockroom. This is an Apple store shouldn?t the latest and greatest be available the same day without having to ask? Why aren?t the old models moved out of the store and sold off at a discount. Again this is the Apple store I expect the latest products to be sold to me without having to ask where are the new models.



    I made my purchase with little help from the "dude" in the store. I think they think they don't have to make an effort t to sell these computers. As a newbie he made no effort to show my why the computer was "better". I wanted to add 2GB in my new Macbook and nothing more, but no! I would have to purchase the new RAM and loose the difference in price. Why have these stores? This is an Apple store right? Lame!



    Here is my take on all this, after all of the hype I feel completely duped and ripped off. Being a Windows users for years I found the MAC O/S not to be easier to use but more confusing and had the need to buy a book so I could understand how to do things that I usually do on a PC. I find that it is not as intuitive as they claim and all this crap about not having to reboot ever is a lie. A flat out lie. They even boast a big sign in the Apple store ?Never Reboot Again?, well this is simply not true, of course you have to reboot if you update your computer. I have had to do this many times. And all I have on this Macbook is the installed apps and Firefox?oh and yeah Safari is a terrible browser.



    I think Apple is very deceptive and if you don?t stay on top of what they are doing via sites like this and other sources you will forever have buyer?s remorse with Apple products more so they any other technology product. I think their commercials only aggravate and piss people off making them take a further stance on their operating system of choice.



    And why did I have to pay $1.99 for the 802.11n driver update for hardware I just paid $1,500.00 for? Don?t make up mumbo jumbo account BS lies?I bought the hardware, you finally have a driver ready, just update it and let have warm fuzzy feelings but no, I have to pay for it. It's the point, not the money. Oh did I mention how many times AirPort froze and caused the computer to crash before it could work properly on an 802.11n wireless network?



    After reading the Apple.com User forums all I have to say is my experience is that the Apple users always place blame on everyone else for their Mac woes. When you car breaks down you don?t say my BMW is awesome but ever since they started using parts from GermanAutoWerkx the cars have problems. No, you say that damn BMW and you go back to the dealer to get it fixed. I think it's worse actually worse because Apple is 100% in control of the hardware and how the software is loaded and pre-configured. Are you really saying that Apple can?t configure hardware with it's operating system and Intel was not the way to go over those outdated PowerPC chips?



    And upgrade, please. With each major change to the MAC O/S you had to buy a new computer. Apple made your hardware completely obsolete. Oh and why can?t I have the new search feature in my fairly new 60B iPod via a software update? Why do I have to buy a new one to get the feature. I thought the concept was the ability to update your computer via simple software updates.



    This is my reality and I will stick with Vista! My Macbook is a glorified computer used just for browser testing. Vista sure does make the Mac O/S X look really old and tired.



    All of these actions just prove Apple is more paranoid then ever of the competition. It's a sad marketing tactic that is dong nothing but backfiring in their face.



    People will figure out the truth soon enough.
  • Reply 114 of 128
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Viscott View Post


    PC fanboy rant, disguised as disgruntled Mac customer.(80% probability). Trick #3 in Troll Handbook, given away by the "Vista sure makes OS/X look old and tired" line, among others.



    PC fanboy rant gets a 5.0, 6.0, and a 6.5 from the judge from Romania.



    You're obviously on the wrong forum.



    Really, if I wanted to, I could run to a PC forum and make a post very similar to yours about all the things I can't stand about Windows and PCs, and how much they disappoint me. And the difference is, mine would be real. But what would be the point? I made my decision, Macs are way better for me. PCs may be better for you. Go with what you like.



    But whining and crying on a forum for a product you really have no interest in? C'mon dude, that's God's way of saying you have too much free time.



    .
  • Reply 115 of 128
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    You're obviously on the wrong forum.



    Really, if I wanted to, I could run to a PC forum and make a post very similar to yours about all the things I can't stand about Windows and PCs, and how much they disappoint me. And the difference is, mine would be real. But what would be the point? I made my decision, Macs are way better for me. PCs may be better for you. Go with what you like.



    But whining and crying on a forum for a product you really have no interest in? C'mon dude, that's God's way of saying you have too much free time.



    .



    Your response proves the point of my post. You have nothing to say about my experience other then to make it a personal attack. Therfore you must agree that there is truth and honesty in what I have said.
  • Reply 116 of 128
    doh123doh123 Posts: 323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Viscott View Post


    Being a website developer.....



    Now there is a troll with a post full of half truths
  • Reply 117 of 128
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Viscott View Post


    Your response proves the point of my post. You have nothing to say about my experience other then to make it a personal attack. Therfore you must agree that there is truth and honesty in what I have said.



    If you wish to believe that my response proves your point, so be it. If you wish to believe that you know kung fu and are dating a supermodel, so be it. If you wish to believe that you can fly to Mars under your own power, right on. Who am I to interfere with your insanity?



    Its just that I've seen posts exactly like yours on other forums, and 8 times out of 10, they are total BS. If you are not a PC fanboy troll with a made up story, then good on you, though the logic of why you'd want to run crying to a Mac forum doesn't make much sense.



    Hey, you're breathing. That proves MY point. Wow, you're right... nonsense IS fun.



    .
  • Reply 118 of 128
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Weird. We start talking about the odd phenomena of a rising tide of Apple bashing on an Apple enthusiast site and immediately someone shows up with their first post and runs the whole "I tried to use a Mac but it drove me away screaming" thing from the troll handbook.



    Is there, like, some kind of bot that monitors Apple sites for signs of disgruntlement so a FUD guy can be dispatched post haste?



    Note to trolls-- try not to include too many flat-out made up stuff about the Mac (and Apple's) shortcomings, it damages your claims to having ever used a Mac at all.
  • Reply 119 of 128
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    There's difference of opinion and there's suggesting that Mac users are morons that can't use computers.



    And then there's inflating the price of a product by $100 while slamming it. I don't know how $599 becomes $700.



    I think I can go on, but those are pretty good in reinforcing my point.



    If you don't want to be considered a troll, don't try to be so inflammatory.



    You're right, now that I read back I came off a bit too strong at times. However its not like I havent made very valid points. I admit I could use to tone it down a bit...
  • Reply 120 of 128
    doh123doh123 Posts: 323member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Viscott View Post


    Being a website developer I decided this past fall that I would buy a Macbook to use for browser compatibility testing. So I read the Apple forums and all of the disasters related to Random Shutdown and waited for the Core 2 Duo's to come out. I found it astonishing the amount of delay it took Apple to update the CPU?s to Core 2 Duo?s. When I spend my money on a brand new computer I want the latest and faster components? available to me. Frankly every computer in the store was already out of date and needed to be refreshed with new CPU?s. If Apple is going to play with the big boys at Intel they need to be in sync with Intel. The day Intel announces new chips Dell and others have models ready to ship the same day. But where is Apple? One Month, two months, three months later they finally release a new updated model, only after a Steve ?Dog and Pony? show. Meanwhile the inventory in the store is old and outdated.



    What? where did you read this junk, or is your expectations completely unreal? Sure Dell announced and was shipping Core 2 Duo desktop versions early on. Dell announced mobile versions of Core 2 Duos about 2 months before they ever actually shipped any. Apple updated the Macbook Pro to Core 2 Duos and shipped them before Dell shipped any, and shipped Macbook Core 2 Duos right around the same time Dell was shipping them. Dell tricks people by advertising how great their new laptop is, but when you go to order it they give you a ship date thats like a month away.



    Quote:

    So now the new model is available. I go to the Apple store at The Grove in LA, a very big store. All of the little fancy placards displaying the Model name, price and features are removed from the store. Why? This is an Apple Store! Well you see if you did not know to ask for the newer model you would have left the store with the old one. You HAD TO ASK for the new model kept in the stockroom. This is an Apple store shouldn?t the latest and greatest be available the same day without having to ask? Why aren?t the old models moved out of the store and sold off at a discount. Again this is the Apple store I expect the latest products to be sold to me without having to ask where are the new models.



    Apple did not have enough C2D Macbooks to stock their stores. If a salesperson at one tried to rip you off, you should complain about that person, but it sounds more like you were jumping to conclusions on your own. They were supposed to keep the old models up as display models until they had new C2D display models in. They (your store might have messed up) put up C2D spec signs with CD laptops. If you wanted to buy a CD version, they had them, but if you wanted to just buy what you saw there on the shelf, they were supposed to tell you it was going to be ordered (if they didnt have one in stock) or possibly offer you an older model (in some stores) for a slight discount. No store was supposed to be selling the old models by trying to trick anyone starting on the day the C2D Macbook was announced.



    Quote:

    I made my purchase with little help from the "dude" in the store. I think they think they don't have to make an effort t to sell these computers. As a newbie he made no effort to show my why the computer was "better". I wanted to add 2GB in my new Macbook and nothing more, but no! I would have to purchase the new RAM and loose the difference in price. Why have these stores? This is an Apple store right? Lame!



    so you are mad they aren't pushy or acting like 'used car' salesmen? Yeah, it sucks they dont offer CTO options in stores unless the store ordered some special ones that way on purpose. Usually the retail stores only sell whats in the box, if you want a custom order you have to tell them you want it custom ordered and built and shipped, or do it yourself online. Its to do with how their serial number and tracking and inventory works mainly.

    Quote:

    Here is my take on all this, after all of the hype I feel completely duped and ripped off. Being a Windows users for years I found the MAC O/S not to be easier to use but more confusing and had the need to buy a book so I could understand how to do things that I usually do on a PC. I find that it is not as intuitive as they claim and all this crap about not having to reboot ever is a lie. A flat out lie. They even boast a big sign in the Apple store ?Never Reboot Again?, well this is simply not true, of course you have to reboot if you update your computer. I have had to do this many times. And all I have on this Macbook is the installed apps and Firefox?oh and yeah Safari is a terrible browser.



    if all you know is Windows, and your used to how Windows works, sure you'll take a lot of time learning OSX, because your expecting a "computer" to work just like you've always seen them work.... you expect it to work like Windows. You would have the same problem if you used OSX a few years than went to Windows for the first time. I have never seen an Apple ad that said Never Reboot Again, so i cant comment on that. Rebooting is very rare though, only for certain updates and 3rd party software. Safari is not a terrible browser. Cant argue much because you dont put any reasons up. I like it better than I like Firefox and IE and Opera.

    Quote:

    I think Apple is very deceptive and if you don?t stay on top of what they are doing via sites like this and other sources you will forever have buyer?s remorse with Apple products more so they any other technology product. I think their commercials only aggravate and piss people off making them take a further stance on their operating system of choice.



    The same for any company on any product, even other computer companies.



    Quote:

    And why did I have to pay $1.99 for the 802.11n driver update for hardware I just paid $1,500.00 for? Don?t make up mumbo jumbo account BS lies?I bought the hardware, you finally have a driver ready, just update it and let have warm fuzzy feelings but no, I have to pay for it. It's the point, not the money. Oh did I mention how many times AirPort froze and caused the computer to crash before it could work properly on an 802.11n wireless network?



    the charge for 802.11n firmware and driver update is pretty absurd. Apple did do it for account reasons though, they just didn't explain it well. It was totally their fault with bad accounting that they charged for it later. After having to be reviewed (and still are being) they are playing safe. Yes it was accounting reasons they charged, but the account reasons were only a factor because of Apples own fault. They should have fixed it so they could do the update for free.



    Quote:

    After reading the Apple.com User forums all I have to say is my experience is that the Apple users always place blame on everyone else for their Mac woes. When you car breaks down you don?t say my BMW is awesome but ever since they started using parts from GermanAutoWerkx the cars have problems. No, you say that damn BMW and you go back to the dealer to get it fixed. I think it's worse actually worse because Apple is 100% in control of the hardware and how the software is loaded and pre-configured. Are you really saying that Apple can?t configure hardware with it's operating system and Intel was not the way to go over those outdated PowerPC chips?



    Computers arent cars, and people really need to stop using that as an example. And yes if your car fails you blame the person who made it... and if you find out its from a faulty part from a certain manufacturer, you blame that manufacturer as well. on some of the forums people are discussing the actual problems and root causes, they aren't just complaint sites. Some people want to know more than just "fix it!"

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    And upgrade, please. With each major change to the MAC O/S you had to buy a new computer. Apple made your hardware completely obsolete. Oh and why can?t I have the new search feature in my fairly new 60B iPod via a software update? Why do I have to buy a new one to get the feature. I thought the concept was the ability to update your computer via simple software updates.



    what do you call a major change? the change to OSX from OS9 I'm guessing? That did not require a new computer for all previous computers. sure some didnt work with OSX, but others did. There has been very few new OS versions that totally killed all previous hardware before it, and nothing like that in many many years. And your iPod might not be capable of it, or some werent. Don't expect new features to be added to older models, no idea why you would even expect that.

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    This is my reality and I will stick with Vista! My Macbook is a glorified computer used just for browser testing. Vista sure does make the Mac O/S X look really old and tired.



    well, if it works for you, then use it. you are entiled to your opinion. wouldnt the world be boring if everyone thought exactly the same? I like the way OSX looks and works much better than Vista.
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