Apple to re-enter the sub-notebook market

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  • Reply 181 of 248
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Michael_Moriarty View Post


    While I can see the exclusion of the optical drive useful for conserving battery, this does come at a disadvantage:



    - How do you install software that is on a CD/DVD?

    - How do you reinstall the OS from its DVDs?



    You would need to get an external drive to do both.



    Yes, you would need to get an external drive or Apple could let you ethernet to it. So what? How often do you install soft ware or an OS by DVD? Most software and soon backups are done online. Welcome to 2007, MM!
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  • Reply 182 of 248
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sthiede View Post


    a lot of people (including me) like tactile response when im typing.



    I do as well, but I bet you haven't tried typing on a virtual keyboard long enough to really make that assessment. Besides, Apple has patents for map-able keyboards so that you really don't need more than 30 keys to do everything, if you can re-map the keys to numbers and functions, etc.



    Lastly if business folks and kids can figure out and be addicted to text messaging on phones, then I think we can adapt to virtual keyboards even easier. If you have seen the TED video on the latest in multi-touch, you would see that the virtual keyboard not only could move with a persons hand movements to compensate for the wandering fingers that tactile keyboards help with, but they can compensate for mistyping on the fly. That may be more important for some (maybe not you) than the warm fuzzy feelings some get with the clicking keys.



    It is time to expand our ideas of input beyond the keyboard. Most people do not like keyboards, no matter how efficient they are for word processing they may be. Most people not at work or geeking out online, do not need word processing to that level.



    Now my assumption is that a subnotebook WOULD have a real keyboard, but the next new device will not.
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  • Reply 183 of 248
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post


    Yes, you would need to get an external drive or Apple could let you ethernet to it. So what? How often do you install soft ware or an OS by DVD? Most software and soon backups are done online. Welcome to 2007, MM!



    How about a Dock connector that has one?



    Sebastian
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  • Reply 184 of 248
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post


    It is time to expand our ideas of input beyond the keyboard. Most people do not like keyboards, no matter how efficient they are for word processing they may be. Most people not at work or geeking out online, do not need word processing to that level.



    Now my assumption is that a subnotebook WOULD have a real keyboard, but the next new device will not.



    I don't use a Keyboard mainly for Word Processing (not that I have a choice at the moment, NeoOffice keeps crashing every time I open it, and sometimes when I close it ), I'm very addicted to Quicksilver and TextMate. Hell, I'm teaching myself the Terminal a bit at a time, so prying me off a Keyboard would be like removing my Eyes and Ears. 8)



    Multi Touch alone isn't going to do the trick. A Touch panel just isn't efficient enough for everyone, and nobody wants to remap every one of their keys (like that one Keyboard with removable keys) just to type and give commands.



    Multi Touch with usable Speech to Text and System Level Speech Commands may work. But until you can get it system level for administration purposes (basic maintenance like Network management) then it's just not going to work yet. That's leaving out the amount of work you'd have to put in for Basic Human error correction.



    I am however, willing to give up my Keyboard for a version of Quicksilver with Speech



    Sebastian
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  • Reply 185 of 248
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    I'm going to violently change the direction here, so my apologies in advance.



    I've noticed over the years that there is a great deal of enthusiasm here for a sub-notebook. Back in the day (as they say) there was a thread called Powerbook 2400 Dreams or what not. I've never really particpated in the topic, and haven't on this thread until now.



    So here it is: I really don't understand the enthusiasm for such a product. I'm sure Apple has done their research and I'm not claiming it will fail, is not a good idea, etc. I just don't see it.



    One of the prime arguments has been portability. That makes little sense to me as the Macbook is very portable and relatively light. I can see a pro model perhaps at that size. My ex had two ibooks...a G3 and a G4, and I just can't imagine the need for something even smaller and lighter.



    Who this notebook is targeted at is an issue for me too. It can't possibly be powerful enough for a college student, as such a user is likely to want some half decent graphics capability, music and video storage, etc.



    The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. I know the article speculated on Japan, but it would seem odd for Apple to target one country with a major product like that.



    Could someone elighten me on this further? What are the other markets? My apologies for not reading through the entire thread first.



    Thanks



    SDW
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  • Reply 186 of 248
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,606member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. Thanks



    SDW



    Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! It is for the travler that needs portability (use your 15 MBP on an Airplane in Coach, I DARE ya!) or the business guy on the go. I am both.
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  • Reply 187 of 248
    Quote:

    If it's a Mac Book I'd want:

    11'' Widescreen running 1280x800 (approximately)

    1.66 GHz C2D

    512MB Ram (however if its released with Leopard I'd suggest 1 GB.

    Combo-drive

    Ports: 2-USB 2.0, 1-FireWire 400, Power, expresscard 34, ethernet 10/100, Mini-DVI, kensigton security slot. I'm willing to lose a USB port if theres not enough room.

    Price Point - $799.00



    Well, I'd say these are reasonable specs. The combo-drive may or may not be present. However, I think your price estimate is all wrong. =( Smaller computers like this are costly, sorry to say, and I'd guess twice that.

    Quote:

    If its a Mac Book Pro:

    13.3'' Widescreen 1280x900

    2 GHz - 2.16 GHz C2D

    1GB Ram

    Superdrive

    Ports: probably same as current MB ports but with addition of a firewire 800 port.

    Price Point: 1699.00



    I'd love to see this. I would really love to see this. I don't know if this would qualify as a subnotebook though. I think the rumor is referring to something more like the Sony TX series.



    Quote:

    Please make the glossy screen an option. not everyone likes them.



    YES PLEASE! Honestly, I hate the glossy screen. Maximum anti-glare for me please. This is a computer for taking everywhere, hence people needing to able to see it as clearly as possible everywhere. I don't buy a small laptop for its incredible glossy colors to improve DVD viewing; that's what my TV and desktop are for.



    Edited to add... A response to SDW. I think there are two different markets being represented on this thread.



    The first is for the ultra-portable, super long battery life, no frills, ultralight workstation. This sort of computer usually has a ULV (ultra low voltage) processor, meaning no Core 2 Duo, no discrete graphics, and possibly no combo drive. This sort of computer will have a long battery life, weight around 3 lbs, be around an inch thick, and have an 11" screen or thereabouts. It will handle things like word processing, powerpoint presentations, and surfing the internet just fine. A good example is the Sony TX series. This is mainly for the business folks who travel light.



    The other type of laptop that people seem to be after is what I'm in the market for. A smallish laptop that weighs about 4.5 lbs, has a 12" or 13" screen, discrete graphics, a powerful processor, and a superdrive. Think Dell M1210. I want a secondary computer that's light and has decent battery life, but I want to be able to do more intense things on it when I'm away. I'm willing to sacrifice a few hours battery life, a few lbs, and an inch or so to get the processor, superdrive, and graphics card.



    I think that laptops of 12" or smaller are rarely going to be purchased as a primary computer; most people are going to get one to complement their desktop. I guess it comes down to if you are more interested in battery life and superlight weight, or slightly less portable power.



    *shrugs*
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  • Reply 188 of 248
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!! It is for the travler that needs portability (use your 15 MBP on an Airplane in Coach, I DARE ya!) or the business guy on the go. I am both.





    Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?
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  • Reply 189 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slewis View Post


    The only reason I ever used my Optical Drive was to get Xcode off the Install Discs.



    However, for your Periphreals:

    Bluetooth, WiFi, Bluetooth, and USB in that order



    Sebastian





    I will manage my peripherals, thanks.



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  • Reply 190 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?



    Read (a new concept?) the whole thread and you will see what we are discussing.



    Anybody who has a job that requires them to travel a lot and give presentations needs something more portable than a MB. I had the PB 12 and it was too big.



    Train and airplane travel can be quite cramped, not to mention some Tokyo coffee shops are standing room only on a typical afternoon.



    Business hotels all have TVs that often have S cable connectors. Some newer hotels in Japan have LCD screens with HDMI connectors (aren't we lucky!). If you want to relax with a big screen, plug in. You are going too carry the cables anyways for your presentation.



    Just give me portable power.
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  • Reply 191 of 248
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,606member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Yeah, but you need something more portable than 13.3" Macbook?



    Yeah. My 12" iBook G4 is too big, and I mean too big!! I dont need horsepower, just enough to get me by to present, edit doc's, dom some quotes, and write. Business crap that doesn't need a 24" iMac to look at!
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  • Reply 192 of 248
    rolorolo Posts: 686member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slewis View Post


    TOO THICK!!

    My own Macbook is just over an inch thick, 3/4 of an Inch is too large, especially with a 12" screen. It takes the hold point of a Sub notebook away.

    You're still suggesting Moving parts, and that's plain crazy. It even at 3/4" it would be too fragile. To make it successful it has to be really thin, but if it uses any parts that are too large for a thin environment then it just makes it fragile (another reason I decided against Moving parts)

    Your idea suggest Santa Rosa, but you make no mention of WiMax. And there is no 2.2Ghz Core 2 Duo.



    Sebastian



    The ULV 2.2 GHz chip I dreamt up isn't available yet since it's intended for the 800 MHz FSB of the Santa Rosa platform. An ultra low voltage chip affords a longer battery life but it's more expensive.



    Another energy saving feature is Robson which uses some flash memory to save HD access time.



    As for thickness, a standard Ethernet port is a hair more than 3/8" high. Maybe it can be 5/8" thin with the lid closed.
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  • Reply 193 of 248
    please, please, please, please make this subnote book have NO builtin camera.



    it's been the major stumbling block to replacing my ibook w/

    a more modern apple laptop.



    camera's are simply verboten where i work
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  • Reply 194 of 248
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    Read (a new concept?) the whole thread and you will see what we are discussing.



    Anybody who has a job that requires them to travel a lot and give presentations needs something more portable than a MB. I had the PB 12 and it was too big.



    Train and airplane travel can be quite cramped, not to mention some Tokyo coffee shops are standing room only on a typical afternoon.



    Business hotels all have TVs that often have S cable connectors. Some newer hotels in Japan have LCD screens with HDMI connectors (aren't we lucky!). If you want to relax with a big screen, plug in. You are going too carry the cables anyways for your presentation.



    Just give me portable power.



    Thanks for being an asshole right off the bat. I'm done with you.
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  • Reply 195 of 248
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    Yeah. My 12" iBook G4 is too big, and I mean too big!! I dont need horsepower, just enough to get me by to present, edit doc's, dom some quotes, and write. Business crap that doesn't need a 24" iMac to look at!



    Why is it too big? Too big for what?
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  • Reply 196 of 248
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,067member
    Cheddar:



    Quote:

    The other type of laptop that people seem to be after is what I'm in the market for. A smallish laptop that weighs about 4.5 lbs, has a 12" or 13" screen, discrete graphics, a powerful processor, and a superdrive. Think Dell M1210.



    Or think...Macbook. Not much difference in what you described.
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  • Reply 197 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    Cheddar:







    Or think...Macbook. Not much difference in what you described.



    Discrete Graphics is a big selling point for me. Macbook doesn't have that.



    Put a proper graphics card in a 13.3" Macbook and I'll settle for that, though I'd prefer more ports and a slightly smaller screen size.
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  • Reply 198 of 248
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    I'm going to violently change the direction here, so my apologies in advance.



    I've noticed over the years that there is a great deal of enthusiasm here for a sub-notebook. Back in the day (as they say) there was a thread called Powerbook 2400 Dreams or what not. I've never really particpated in the topic, and haven't on this thread until now.



    So here it is: I really don't understand the enthusiasm for such a product. I'm sure Apple has done their research and I'm not claiming it will fail, is not a good idea, etc. I just don't see it.



    One of the prime arguments has been portability. That makes little sense to me as the Macbook is very portable and relatively light. I can see a pro model perhaps at that size. My ex had two ibooks...a G3 and a G4, and I just can't imagine the need for something even smaller and lighter.



    Who this notebook is targeted at is an issue for me too. It can't possibly be powerful enough for a college student, as such a user is likely to want some half decent graphics capability, music and video storage, etc.



    The only thing I can come up with is business users. Having a super light mobile work station might make sense for travelers. I know the article speculated on Japan, but it would seem odd for Apple to target one country with a major product like that.



    Could someone elighten me on this further? What are the other markets? My apologies for not reading through the entire thread first.



    Thanks



    SDW



    I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I know exactly why I want one.



    Imagine an ultra small ultra thin Notebook you can whip out ANYWHERE. It doesn't even have to be your Main computer, but a companion computer. Since it would have the basics of the Current Macbook family, Bluetooth EDR, WiFi, there would still be that no wires feeling, and more importantly, WiMax, so I might be able to connect to a decent Wireless service on the go without worrying about losing my connection. In fact, if I were to move from one WiMax network to the next, I believe one of the fundamental things about WiMax is that a change in networks on the go is Invisible, though I'm pulling a rather vague memory from something I read in CPU so I may not be entirely correct in that. But again, I expect by the next round of revisions, all Macbooks and Macbook Pros will have WiMax, while I don't believe Santa Rosa will make an appearence exactly as people think, they'll probably end up following the Santa Rosa Pardigm anyways, or most of it, and the single most important feature I can see on that is WiMax.



    Currently ISPs are thinking about using it for the "Last Mile" for connecting people, and if this was city wide, then I would have an Ultra Portable Notebook, smaller and much easier to carry around then my Macbook that would have the power of Mac OS X.



    The best part would be if it had no moving parts, HDDs are slow, and Optical Drives are near useless, and these are 2 of the most fragile things in any given Laptop. But with no HDD, the Battery life would also be saved. Sure it would have less storage, but I'd probably end up using it as a companion for another Mac, or as an extension of my network.



    Now we're probably going to be going a bit into the psychological side of things. I simply hate being slowed down by ANYTHING! Whether it's slightly longer startup and load times, slightly slower connection speeds, or this damn wire I have to attach to my computer. A Dock connector and Optional Magsafe in my opinon would be a much better solution then having to unravel a wire and plugging it into a wall. Also there's the clumsiness of putting my Macbook in my Bag, taking it out, etc. And speaking of not being slowed down, I hate having to carry around anything more then I want. If I go somewhere with my Mac and spend more then 3 hours out, I have to carry my Magsafe with me. With longer battery times, I wouldn't have to constantly charge it.



    Then there is the very idea of wires. Spending anymore time messing around with Wires then simply creating a network or adding something to a network is completely unnecessary. In a couple of weeks I was thinking of buying a USB hub and plugging all of my USB devices into that, then whenever I need to sync anyone of those Devices I could just plug one wire in and be done with it.



    So an Ultraportable would do this for me:

    It wouldn't slow me down by being too large

    It wouldn't slow me down by being too heavy

    It wouldn't slow me down by having to be carried in a Bag (with the sizes I'm talking about, I'd never consider it)

    It wouldn't slow me down with an extra unneeded Wire (speaking of which, I was thinking of looking into Wireless Electricity, but I think even that requires an attachment)

    It wouldn't slow me down looking for a WiFi network (because WiMax would serve this purpose better once it's widely deployed)

    It wouldn't slow me down during Startup because it would be Flash based

    It woudln't slow me down by needing to be charged every 3-4 hours or so

    It wouldn't slow me down with this insane Multi Touch Panel that I can barely type on

    It wouldn't slow me down by having more buttons then what is actually needed

    It wouldn't slow me down by having Fragile and Unneeded Parts



    The iPhone is already a Gift from Zeus and Odin, allowing me to be connected to my 2 main forms of Communication 100% of the time (Cell Phone and Email) and I won't have to fuss with Multiple Devices because it will also be my first iPod (unless I do end up opting for a Shuffle sometime soon... still not sure)



    Sebastian
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  • Reply 199 of 248
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rolo View Post


    The ULV 2.2 GHz chip I dreamt up isn't available yet since it's intended for the 800 MHz FSB of the Santa Rosa platform. An ultra low voltage chip affords a longer battery life but it's more expensive.



    Another energy saving feature is Robson which uses some flash memory to save HD access time.



    As for thickness, a standard Ethernet port is a hair more than 3/8" high. Maybe it can be 5/8" thin with the lid closed.



    You know, I don't think you need an Ethernet port in this thing. It's come in handy only once, and that was when Apple screwed up with Software Update and I was force to change my 2WIRE settings over to WPA2 (which as it turns out is better then WEP) which I could've done on my PC but I was lazy and it was easier to just take the Ethernet cord from my Airport Express and change them.



    Sebastian
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  • Reply 200 of 248
    slewisslewis Posts: 2,081member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lcubed View Post


    please, please, please, please make this subnote book have NO builtin camera.



    it's been the major stumbling block to replacing my ibook w/

    a more modern apple laptop.



    camera's are simply verboten where i work



    Sorry, but the way things are going now, in a year or 2 you won't be able to buy a single Laptop anywhere without one unless you buy an Old Laptop off of eBay or something.



    Sebastian
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