3) Finally, since I always like to come at a problem from a different direction (Think Different?), what if Apple doesn't produce a new ultra-light at all (now) BUT writes a software program that allows OSX to run natively and as fast on a wintel machine. I could then run OSX on that Sony TX or LG X1 that I have been lusting for! A reverse Parallels if you will. I have not thought through this enough yet regarding profitability, affect on global market share, a Vista/MS lockout etc,. But to me at least, it's an intriguing idea. In the mean time, Apple can further mature MT before it enters the market with its own ultra-light.
OSX doesn't run "natively and as fast on wintel machines" because Apple goes to great lenghts to prevent this. Apple has made it clear that its intentions are to keep OSX locked to its hardware as that is where it makes its profits. So unfortunately we will not see OSX running on on Sony's TX series.
But I do wish for small, sturdy, ultra-thin powerbook with multitouch-like features in the near future, although I do not think multitouch is that needed on a small laptop-style portable with a physical keyboard and trackpad.
But I do wish for small, sturdy, ultra-thin powerbook with multitouch-like features in the near future, although I do not think multitouch is that needed on a small laptop-style portable with a physical keyboard and trackpad.
MultiTouch and keyboards are not mutually exclusive. iGesture pads have been used for years on systems with keyboards. MultiTouch is far superior to single point trackpads. Apple took a small step forward when it brought two-finger scrolling to MacBook trackpads, but the full MT technology already provides a huge command set from your fingertips. However, I don't think MT would work very well in an ultralight's touchscreen. It works best if the surface is laying more or less horizontal, similar to a graphics tablet or the way one would hold an iPhone. With a near-vertical surface, it's too difficult to use all the fingers and thumb, instead requiring the wrist to be dorsally flexed.
Can you think of any knockout engineering issues with my idea of a "pop-out" like iGestures panel from the space currently occupied by the ODD in a laptop?
Hey, didn't you read that reply somebody else wrote earlier in the thread? Get to the gym and "man up" if you're too much of a wimp to carry a 5-pound laptop, it said.
Personally, I don't need it down to 2 pounds. 3 would be fine. 3.5 about the upper limit for all-day carry. Anyone who says 5+ pounds is fine has never had to lug one on a shoulder for most of a day and is just talking through his hat.
I don't feel a challenge to my masculinity, as that poster obviously does.
My point, and this applies only to me, as I'm not attempting to speak for anyone else, is that I would buy one if it didn't impinge upon my daily routine. That could only happen if it were small, and light enough for me not to notice it, when I'm involved in something else.
If I carry it in an over the shoulder case, it will be out of my way, and I'm more likely to take it with me. If it's bigger, and heavier, then it will become annoying after a while, and I'm likely to leave it home.
So, that's my reasoning. I know over the years just how much bothers me, and as I get older (I really hate saying that!), I'm bothered more easily.
Well, it's not new, but OK. I guess I can see the market for business travelers. To me though, there isn't a lot of difference between a 3lb 11" computer and one that is more fully featured and weighs 5 lbs. The only exception in my mind would be for those who take the train everyday or who fly frequently. But then again, if you're going to take a 1 week business trip, why not have a more fully featured machine to use at the hotel, at your meetings, etc?
Because, you're talking about business, and I've made the point clear that I'm not.
When we are talking business, then we are looking at a different world. If you have to carry, you do. The office won't care if it's 12 pounds, if they want you to have one, have one you will!
But, for personal use, where the machine is more of a dalliance than anything else, the smaller, and lighter, the better.
Just curious, are there any references for "OSX doesn't run natively and as fast on wintel machines"?
Thanks.
OS X does not run on Wintel machines without hacking. Even when you hack OS X to run on a Wintel, you still don't have graphics support unless you're using an identical card to one in a Mac. OS X without a graphics card is slow as molasses, because it's running the graphical desktop on the processor.
Just curious, are there any references for "OSX doesn't run natively and as fast on wintel machines"?
Thanks.
Driver support.
There are concrete and identifiable reasons why the underpinnings of Windows aren't that great (the registry, for one) and a big part of it is having to support 8000 million different possible computer configurations.
Now they could cut a deal with say Sony and run OS X just on Sony models or even on specific Sony models, but I doubt they want to support every possible Windows machine under the sun. Nor do I think they'll go that far anytime soon.
There are a few other reasons like Macs not using BIOS, but drivers is the big one. In the Windows world companies mostly write their own drivers for Microsoft but Windows still has to use them, and they usually suck. In Apple's case they usually have to write drivers for whatever they use (some exceptions) and so expanding the models they support means writing and supporting more drivers (software cost) as they're not big enough to compel companies to write drivers for them.
Sony has been producing the TX series for several years. At 1.25 kg., it is half the weight of a MacBook. This is all I want, but with the Mac OS. Oh, and the new ULV Core 2 Duo chips would be nice. But if Mac could produce this machine, with its 5 hour battery life, I would pay nearly any price.
Well right after I bought my Macbook, I accidently put it to sleep when I thought I shut it down (it turns out I put it to sleep in Mid Shutdown ) and came back in about 8 hours, and I think it dropped down to... well I don't think I lost any battery life actually. I can't quite remember though \
Sebastian
*hehs* Was visiting New Zealand back in 04, and left my PB at a friends house, didn't figure this out till I went through the xray machine and found there wasn't a laptop in its case. Friend mailed it back to me in Colorado - 3 day trip. Something like 20% battery left.
Can you think of any knockout engineering issues with my idea of a "pop-out" like iGestures panel from the space currently occupied by the ODD in a laptop?
Never having taken my iGesture pad apart (and not wanting to since it works flawlessly and I don't want to mess it up), I don't know how thick the actual working surface is. The iGesture is about 1/4 - 1/3" thick at the rim, not exactly superthin. Would I like it if Apple put it in? Hell, yeah! But I'm not holding my breath. Indeed, if they could put in the iGesture Numpad on the right side, it could give the dedicated cursor and numeric keypads many people have always wished laptops had, instead of forcing us to use the embedded numeric layout in the keyboard with its staggered keys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther Al
*hehs* Was visiting New Zealand back in 04, and left my PB at a friends house, didn't figure this out till I went through the xray machine and found there wasn't a laptop in its case. Friend mailed it back to me in Colorado - 3 day trip. Something like 20% battery left.
That jibes with the experiences I've always had with my 12" PB. Four days of sleep would drain the battery, but I could keep it running by plugging it back in any time before then. Keeps me on my toes keeping it charged nowadays. Trying to see how long I can get the uptime counter going. It's at almost 400 days right now. (Okay, I really should install 10.4.8 and the latest security updates, but mess up my uptime? Never!)
12" widescreen or less display, LED backlight (thinner, brighter, richer color)
ULV Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz
1GB RAM
50, 100 or 60, 120GB 1.8" HDD
Santa Rosa 800 MHz mobo
Intel integrated graphics (next generation)
512MB or 1GB flash memory (Robson)
AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
External SuperDrive, USB 2.0
0.75" thin, 2 lbs., 12 hour battery life.
These are the most reasonable, ship-this-summer specs in this thread. Thanks for returning us to reason, Rolo!
I see two options for an Apple product in the subnotebook space:
1) a current MacBook, trimmed to a more compact, sub-3 lbs size (like Rolo presents above), AND/OR
2) a combination of iPhone and MacBook features, akin to the eBook that Kormac used to discuss here; in other words, a device that is not a full-fledged Mac, but darn close and running OS X Lite like the iPhone.
My personal preference would be for option 1. But seeing the precedent that Apple has set with the iPod and iPhone, I think that option 2 is just as likely, if not more so.
That'd suit me fine. I'm a TV producer/director + I travel a lot and frequently have to rough it in small spaces on location. What I really want is a machine with something around this spec and a rugged, preferably rubberised, enclosure. The ibook polycarbonate enclosure is ok, but it still looks vulnerable to me - certainly more vulnerable than the old 2-tone clamshells (which were, in my opinion, still too big).
There's a huge potential market for a sub-notebook-sized, knock-resistant machine, not just amongst people who fly or train it a lot but people like me who work outdoors yet need ready access to documents and data: architects, builders, surveyors, landscapers... and students, who probably take their machines out doors more than anyone.
That'd suit me fine. I'm a TV producer/director + I travel a lot and frequently have to rough it in small spaces on location. What I really want is a machine with something around this spec and a rugged, preferably rubberised, enclosure. The ibook polycarbonate enclosure is ok, but it still looks vulnerable to me - certainly more vulnerable than the old 2-tone clamshells (which were, in my opinion, still too big).
There's a huge potential market for a sub-notebook-sized, knock-resistant machine, not just amongst people who fly or train it a lot but people like me who work outdoors yet need ready access to documents and data: architects, builders, surveyors, landscapers... and students, who probably take their machines out doors more than anyone.
Right now, the closest you can get are Panasonics ruggedized notebook models. They are designed for jobsites where there will be spills, and drops off workbebenckes and tables.
The thing that suprised me actually is that the 17" PB is surprisingly rugged. I picked up mine right before I was deployed to Iraq in 03-04, and out of the dozen or so computers we brought with us (Including one toughbook) mine was the only one that made it back. Still works now in fact, though the USB ports are dead. Dusty Enviroment? Check. Various wet stuff dumped on? Check. Surived a humvee getting zapped with a IED? Check.. though the hinge on one side is a little ate up, and the plastic over the superdrive (Both Drives had to be replaced last year) was broke off, but hey. I'd say the PB survived the toughness test.
Now... to get a new logic board, or save up my pennies for a new MacBook Pro.
My thoughts are that if Apple do release a sub notebook, they will use a new enclosure material in order to make thinner and smaller and maintain strength. I think Apple will at least match Sony in size and weight if not better them.
Some people consider leaving out the optical drive to be ok but I just thought of something else. You can't boot from your system disc without an external drive. So what you say? Well, that's fine for OS X but Windows doesn't boot from external USB or firewire drives. I tried booting the installer CD in my external firewire drive and it was having none of it. Maybe it's dependent on the particular model of drive but still, it's flakey.
Some people consider leaving out the optical drive to be ok but I just thought of something else. You can't boot from your system disc without an external drive. So what you say? Well, that's fine for OS X but Windows doesn't boot from external USB or firewire drives. I tried booting the installer CD in my external firewire drive and it was having none of it. Maybe it's dependent on the particular model of drive but still, it's flakey.
Some people consider leaving out the optical drive to be ok but I just thought of something else. You can't boot from your system disc without an external drive. So what you say? Well, that's fine for OS X but Windows doesn't boot from external USB or firewire drives. I tried booting the installer CD in my external firewire drive and it was having none of it. Maybe it's dependent on the particular model of drive but still, it's flakey.
It may be a firmware thing, I don't know. I've seen Windows-based notebooks that do boot from an external optical drive. I think mine can but it's through a dock connector with an adapter that lets me put the drive module into it. I haven't needed it because it has a modular optical drive bay.
Later model Wintels can boot from a keydisk if you have the right BIOS version. Google "windows bootsble keydisk". I have one which I take on the road with me.
Comments
3) Finally, since I always like to come at a problem from a different direction (Think Different?), what if Apple doesn't produce a new ultra-light at all (now) BUT writes a software program that allows OSX to run natively and as fast on a wintel machine. I could then run OSX on that Sony TX or LG X1 that I have been lusting for! A reverse Parallels if you will. I have not thought through this enough yet regarding profitability, affect on global market share, a Vista/MS lockout etc,. But to me at least, it's an intriguing idea. In the mean time, Apple can further mature MT before it enters the market with its own ultra-light.
OSX doesn't run "natively and as fast on wintel machines" because Apple goes to great lenghts to prevent this. Apple has made it clear that its intentions are to keep OSX locked to its hardware as that is where it makes its profits. So unfortunately we will not see OSX running on on Sony's TX series.
But I do wish for small, sturdy, ultra-thin powerbook with multitouch-like features in the near future, although I do not think multitouch is that needed on a small laptop-style portable with a physical keyboard and trackpad.
But I do wish for small, sturdy, ultra-thin powerbook with multitouch-like features in the near future, although I do not think multitouch is that needed on a small laptop-style portable with a physical keyboard and trackpad.
MultiTouch and keyboards are not mutually exclusive. iGesture pads have been used for years on systems with keyboards. MultiTouch is far superior to single point trackpads. Apple took a small step forward when it brought two-finger scrolling to MacBook trackpads, but the full MT technology already provides a huge command set from your fingertips. However, I don't think MT would work very well in an ultralight's touchscreen. It works best if the surface is laying more or less horizontal, similar to a graphics tablet or the way one would hold an iPhone. With a near-vertical surface, it's too difficult to use all the fingers and thumb, instead requiring the wrist to be dorsally flexed.
Just curious, are there any references for "OSX doesn't run natively and as fast on wintel machines"?
Thanks.
Can you think of any knockout engineering issues with my idea of a "pop-out" like iGestures panel from the space currently occupied by the ODD in a laptop?
Thanks.
Hey, didn't you read that reply somebody else wrote earlier in the thread? Get to the gym and "man up" if you're too much of a wimp to carry a 5-pound laptop, it said.
Personally, I don't need it down to 2 pounds. 3 would be fine. 3.5 about the upper limit for all-day carry. Anyone who says 5+ pounds is fine has never had to lug one on a shoulder for most of a day and is just talking through his hat.
I don't feel a challenge to my masculinity, as that poster obviously does.
My point, and this applies only to me, as I'm not attempting to speak for anyone else, is that I would buy one if it didn't impinge upon my daily routine. That could only happen if it were small, and light enough for me not to notice it, when I'm involved in something else.
If I carry it in an over the shoulder case, it will be out of my way, and I'm more likely to take it with me. If it's bigger, and heavier, then it will become annoying after a while, and I'm likely to leave it home.
So, that's my reasoning. I know over the years just how much bothers me, and as I get older (I really hate saying that!), I'm bothered more easily.
Remember, this isn't something I need.
Well, it's not new, but OK. I guess I can see the market for business travelers. To me though, there isn't a lot of difference between a 3lb 11" computer and one that is more fully featured and weighs 5 lbs. The only exception in my mind would be for those who take the train everyday or who fly frequently. But then again, if you're going to take a 1 week business trip, why not have a more fully featured machine to use at the hotel, at your meetings, etc?
Because, you're talking about business, and I've made the point clear that I'm not.
When we are talking business, then we are looking at a different world. If you have to carry, you do. The office won't care if it's 12 pounds, if they want you to have one, have one you will!
But, for personal use, where the machine is more of a dalliance than anything else, the smaller, and lighter, the better.
drmoto,
Just curious, are there any references for "OSX doesn't run natively and as fast on wintel machines"?
Thanks.
OS X does not run on Wintel machines without hacking. Even when you hack OS X to run on a Wintel, you still don't have graphics support unless you're using an identical card to one in a Mac. OS X without a graphics card is slow as molasses, because it's running the graphical desktop on the processor.
drmoto,
Just curious, are there any references for "OSX doesn't run natively and as fast on wintel machines"?
Thanks.
Driver support.
There are concrete and identifiable reasons why the underpinnings of Windows aren't that great (the registry, for one) and a big part of it is having to support 8000 million different possible computer configurations.
Now they could cut a deal with say Sony and run OS X just on Sony models or even on specific Sony models, but I doubt they want to support every possible Windows machine under the sun. Nor do I think they'll go that far anytime soon.
There are a few other reasons like Macs not using BIOS, but drivers is the big one. In the Windows world companies mostly write their own drivers for Microsoft but Windows still has to use them, and they usually suck. In Apple's case they usually have to write drivers for whatever they use (some exceptions) and so expanding the models they support means writing and supporting more drivers (software cost) as they're not big enough to compel companies to write drivers for them.
Well right after I bought my Macbook, I accidently put it to sleep when I thought I shut it down (it turns out I put it to sleep in Mid Shutdown
Sebastian
*hehs* Was visiting New Zealand back in 04, and left my PB at a friends house, didn't figure this out till I went through the xray machine and found there wasn't a laptop in its case. Friend mailed it back to me in Colorado - 3 day trip. Something like 20% battery left.
Can you think of any knockout engineering issues with my idea of a "pop-out" like iGestures panel from the space currently occupied by the ODD in a laptop?
Never having taken my iGesture pad apart (and not wanting to since it works flawlessly and I don't want to mess it up), I don't know how thick the actual working surface is. The iGesture is about 1/4 - 1/3" thick at the rim, not exactly superthin. Would I like it if Apple put it in? Hell, yeah! But I'm not holding my breath. Indeed, if they could put in the iGesture Numpad on the right side, it could give the dedicated cursor and numeric keypads many people have always wished laptops had, instead of forcing us to use the embedded numeric layout in the keyboard with its staggered keys.
*hehs* Was visiting New Zealand back in 04, and left my PB at a friends house, didn't figure this out till I went through the xray machine and found there wasn't a laptop in its case. Friend mailed it back to me in Colorado - 3 day trip. Something like 20% battery left.
That jibes with the experiences I've always had with my 12" PB. Four days of sleep would drain the battery, but I could keep it running by plugging it back in any time before then. Keeps me on my toes keeping it charged nowadays. Trying to see how long I can get the uptime counter going. It's at almost 400 days right now. (Okay, I really should install 10.4.8 and the latest security updates, but mess up my uptime? Never!)
12" widescreen or less display, LED backlight (thinner, brighter, richer color)
ULV Core 2 Duo 2.2 GHz
1GB RAM
50, 100 or 60, 120GB 1.8" HDD
Santa Rosa 800 MHz mobo
Intel integrated graphics (next generation)
512MB or 1GB flash memory (Robson)
AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
External SuperDrive, USB 2.0
0.75" thin, 2 lbs., 12 hour battery life.
These are the most reasonable, ship-this-summer specs in this thread. Thanks for returning us to reason, Rolo!
I see two options for an Apple product in the subnotebook space:
1) a current MacBook, trimmed to a more compact, sub-3 lbs size (like Rolo presents above), AND/OR
2) a combination of iPhone and MacBook features, akin to the eBook that Kormac used to discuss here; in other words, a device that is not a full-fledged Mac, but darn close and running OS X Lite like the iPhone.
My personal preference would be for option 1. But seeing the precedent that Apple has set with the iPod and iPhone, I think that option 2 is just as likely, if not more so.
There's a huge potential market for a sub-notebook-sized, knock-resistant machine, not just amongst people who fly or train it a lot but people like me who work outdoors yet need ready access to documents and data: architects, builders, surveyors, landscapers... and students, who probably take their machines out doors more than anyone.
That'd suit me fine. I'm a TV producer/director + I travel a lot and frequently have to rough it in small spaces on location. What I really want is a machine with something around this spec and a rugged, preferably rubberised, enclosure. The ibook polycarbonate enclosure is ok, but it still looks vulnerable to me - certainly more vulnerable than the old 2-tone clamshells (which were, in my opinion, still too big).
There's a huge potential market for a sub-notebook-sized, knock-resistant machine, not just amongst people who fly or train it a lot but people like me who work outdoors yet need ready access to documents and data: architects, builders, surveyors, landscapers... and students, who probably take their machines out doors more than anyone.
Right now, the closest you can get are Panasonics ruggedized notebook models. They are designed for jobsites where there will be spills, and drops off workbebenckes and tables.
Now... to get a new logic board, or save up my pennies for a new MacBook Pro.
Some people consider leaving out the optical drive to be ok but I just thought of something else. You can't boot from your system disc without an external drive. So what you say? Well, that's fine for OS X but Windows doesn't boot from external USB or firewire drives. I tried booting the installer CD in my external firewire drive and it was having none of it. Maybe it's dependent on the particular model of drive but still, it's flakey.
Another reason not to use Windows.
Some people consider leaving out the optical drive to be ok but I just thought of something else. You can't boot from your system disc without an external drive. So what you say? Well, that's fine for OS X but Windows doesn't boot from external USB or firewire drives. I tried booting the installer CD in my external firewire drive and it was having none of it. Maybe it's dependent on the particular model of drive but still, it's flakey.
It may be a firmware thing, I don't know. I've seen Windows-based notebooks that do boot from an external optical drive. I think mine can but it's through a dock connector with an adapter that lets me put the drive module into it. I haven't needed it because it has a modular optical drive bay.