I really think they are going to bring on a new UI (see rumours about "illuminuous" or smth like that). Rumours say it is going to be a more black-oriented UI, more like we see in the full screen mode in iPhoto. That would be cool I guess. March seems too early for me too.
We shouldn't forget that Apple denied that it kept a version of OS X for Intel processors a secret for years. This build is probably just smoke and mirrors.
I really think they are going to bring on a new UI (see rumours about "illuminuous" or smth like that). Rumours say it is going to be a more black-oriented UI, more like we see in the full screen mode in iPhoto. That would be cool I guess. March seems too early for me too.
I started that rumor, let's just wait and see shall we? Look at the iPhone, that should give you some decent hints of the Leopard UI.
With reports like this, we would be lucky to have Leopard shipping this WWDC.
I believe the "Top Secret" stuff will give Steve an excuse to show off the stuff at WWDC then turn around and say, "Since these features are so cool and we want to get them right so the release is being delayed to the end of summer."
I mean really, you're going to give developer a state-of-the-union at the same time you release to their customers??? That's not right.
We shouldn't forget that Apple denied that it kept a version of OS X for Intel processors a secret for years. This build is probably just smoke and mirrors.
You have to ask why though. The Intel version was kept secret for a reason. What is the reason to keep Leopard a secret? I can understand keeping out secret features but we're talking about core system features causing kernel panics. These releases are intended for developers testing their software against. I see no reason why they would deliberately give their developers unstable builds.
The argument is compelling but only for the reason that we expect more from Apple not because there is any probability that it's true. I'm going to have to join the camp of people saying a WWDC release. I don't want to but the reality is that Apple are not keeping up. We're still waiting on product updates, they've delayed the Apple TVs and now we see Leopard in this state. It's just one disappointment after another.
You have to ask why though. The Intel version was kept secret for a reason. What is the reason to keep Leopard a secret? I can understand keeping out secret features but we're talking about core system features causing kernel panics. These releases are intended for developers testing their software against. I see no reason why they would deliberately give their developers unstable builds.
The reason to keep a new UI for Leopard a secret for as long as possible is very simple: they want as much of a competitive advantage on Microsoft as possible (who are working on Vista SP1 -- and beginning to plan Vienna -- as we speak). Thus, Apple is carefully waiting to unveil the secret elements of Leopard until close to release (say around 60 days), which will probably be late spring, or even early summer.
As for unstable developer releases, c'mon. They're developer releases. Things are shifting around all the time, and there's going to be glitches, bugs, and quirks. All the current state of seeds indicate that Leopard isn't going to be released in March... but anyone who's been following the seeds has known that for some time now.
Apple is farther ahead in the development cycle then we think. The builds that are released to developers are just that, developer builds. They are not meant to test the OS itself like the smaller updates (10.4.9 for example) but to test the developers products.
That being said, I have no idea when to expect Leopard
I just can't wait to see something official from Apple revealing these new secret features.
For all the effort that has been put into this release I certainly hope it's as dramatic a step as Steve has hinted at.
I'm wondering if, just as Microsoft took Apple's play on the X and worked it into XP, Apple will release this as OS X.V to make the direct 'V'ista challenge
There's certainly been talk about changing the naming convention, and this would make some sense.
Really? That gets pretty, er... Roman after awhile, doesn't it?
"What build you on? OS X.VII... but I'm waiting for OS X.IX before I upgrade. Let's hope OS XI is good, and doesn't have problems upon shipping so that we have to wait for XI.III before upgrading. In other news, I've horsewhipped my slaves and have changed my name to Centurion Smith."
I don't expect it would be a continuing theme, nor even how it would be identified by the system... rather what's stamped on the box and the DVDs/CDs for this specific release.
It would certainly be far less lame than MS's method of working the X in XP... "it stands for XPerience" - c'mon.
Nice pirate expletive, too, BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Really? That gets pretty, er... Roman after awhile, doesn't it?
"What build you on? OS X.VII... but I'm waiting for OS X.IX before I upgrade. Let's hope OS XI is good, and doesn't have problems upon shipping so that we have to wait for XI.III before upgrading. In other news, I've horsewhipped my slaves and have changed my name to Centurion Smith."
In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
For that to work well, the Apple employees have to be representative of their diverse user base. It can happen, but it's not easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machead2007
Pssst, March 24th but you didn't hear anything from me...
Or probably not. Rumors are that if a date has been leaked, with or without authorization, they tend to scrub it and hold it on another date.
New CoreAnimation effects? I'm not sure what you mean. I thought CoreAnimation was an added layer to OpenGL to simplify 3D work by require less coding than using pure OpenGL. I didn't notice anything in that video or in the original Leopard presentation that showed it added effects not already possible using OpenGL.
Leopard will remind us all of the first OS X: "10.0 Cheetah" because of the issues it will have.
But it will be so compelling that you'll live with the bugginess and not care a whit.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6! \
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
My Theory - I'm sure there are a lot of issues and problems in the stripped down, feature barren releases that Apple is letting outside of its doors. Remember that this is the same company that is so guarded about its secrets that it created fake iPhone prototypes to throw off partners and people inside the company while developing that product. Leopard isn't any different. Steve Jobs has already said that there are these "top secret" features to the new OS and we've not seen any of those - indicating to me that they're stripping these from the beta software that they're giving to developers. I'm sure there is another set of code around the Cupertino campus which includes the full set of features and probably a lot less bugs. I could be wrong, but that's my theory. 8)
Sorry, that's a bad theory. Ignoring the whole stripped out 'secret' features, there's no reason for apple to strip out bug fixes for all these components. Since the releases are for testing your software (and to test the OS itself), how can you be sure your software will work if you can't even access network shares reliably, or certain conditions always cause a crash?
And who are they trying to throw off? The only competitor is MS, and are they sitting around going "Hey, Leopard still is buggy, we can goof off for a week...Wait! Its been released??? Arrrgggghhhh! We're screwed now!
Comments
Unveiled at a special event with a refreshed UI and some secret stuff... very possibly. Released.... no.
I really think they are going to bring on a new UI (see rumours about "illuminuous" or smth like that). Rumours say it is going to be a more black-oriented UI, more like we see in the full screen mode in iPhoto. That would be cool I guess. March seems too early for me too.
I started that rumor, let's just wait and see shall we? Look at the iPhone, that should give you some decent hints of the Leopard UI.
Look at the iPhone, that should give you some decent hints of the Leopard UI.
Agreed.
There's also a thoughtful blog entry discussing possible Leopard UI directions (as gleaned from recent Apple interface trends) here.
Think that.... plus new CoreAnimation effects.
Take all the time you need Apple.
1. Vista really isn't forcing you to release early.
2. Your new machines to run this thing haven't arrived.
3. Just make it right and release it when you are completely ready.
hear! hear! (or maybe a UK poster can correct me--is it "here! here!" ?)
hear! hear! (or maybe a UK poster can correct me--is it "here! here!" ?)
You were right the first time. It's Hear! Hear!
With reports like this, we would be lucky to have Leopard shipping this WWDC.
I believe the "Top Secret" stuff will give Steve an excuse to show off the stuff at WWDC then turn around and say, "Since these features are so cool and we want to get them right so the release is being delayed to the end of summer."
I mean really, you're going to give developer a state-of-the-union at the same time you release to their customers??? That's not right.
We shouldn't forget that Apple denied that it kept a version of OS X for Intel processors a secret for years. This build is probably just smoke and mirrors.
You have to ask why though. The Intel version was kept secret for a reason. What is the reason to keep Leopard a secret? I can understand keeping out secret features but we're talking about core system features causing kernel panics. These releases are intended for developers testing their software against. I see no reason why they would deliberately give their developers unstable builds.
The argument is compelling but only for the reason that we expect more from Apple not because there is any probability that it's true. I'm going to have to join the camp of people saying a WWDC release. I don't want to but the reality is that Apple are not keeping up. We're still waiting on product updates, they've delayed the Apple TVs and now we see Leopard in this state. It's just one disappointment after another.
You have to ask why though. The Intel version was kept secret for a reason. What is the reason to keep Leopard a secret? I can understand keeping out secret features but we're talking about core system features causing kernel panics. These releases are intended for developers testing their software against. I see no reason why they would deliberately give their developers unstable builds.
The reason to keep a new UI for Leopard a secret for as long as possible is very simple: they want as much of a competitive advantage on Microsoft as possible (who are working on Vista SP1 -- and beginning to plan Vienna -- as we speak). Thus, Apple is carefully waiting to unveil the secret elements of Leopard until close to release (say around 60 days), which will probably be late spring, or even early summer.
As for unstable developer releases, c'mon. They're developer releases. Things are shifting around all the time, and there's going to be glitches, bugs, and quirks. All the current state of seeds indicate that Leopard isn't going to be released in March... but anyone who's been following the seeds has known that for some time now.
Perhaps they should rename Leopard into Longhorn...
Nah, not appropriate unless the release date slips to 2012 or so.
.
That being said, I have no idea when to expect Leopard
I just can't wait to see something official from Apple revealing these new secret features.
For all the effort that has been put into this release I certainly hope it's as dramatic a step as Steve has hinted at.
I'm wondering if, just as Microsoft took Apple's play on the X and worked it into XP, Apple will release this as OS X.V to make the direct 'V'ista challenge
There's certainly been talk about changing the naming convention, and this would make some sense.
Really? That gets pretty, er... Roman after awhile, doesn't it?
"What build you on? OS X.VII... but I'm waiting for OS X.IX before I upgrade. Let's hope OS XI is good, and doesn't have problems upon shipping so that we have to wait for XI.III before upgrading. In other news, I've horsewhipped my slaves and have changed my name to Centurion Smith."
Yeargh.
.
How exactly do they test the secret features while still keeping them secret?
Does Apple beta test any of their other software, like iLife or Final Cut Pro before releasing it?
(Don't say Aperture or I's kill you)
I don't expect it would be a continuing theme, nor even how it would be identified by the system... rather what's stamped on the box and the DVDs/CDs for this specific release.
It would certainly be far less lame than MS's method of working the X in XP... "it stands for XPerience" - c'mon.
Nice pirate expletive, too, BTW.
Really? That gets pretty, er... Roman after awhile, doesn't it?
"What build you on? OS X.VII... but I'm waiting for OS X.IX before I upgrade. Let's hope OS XI is good, and doesn't have problems upon shipping so that we have to wait for XI.III before upgrading. In other news, I've horsewhipped my slaves and have changed my name to Centurion Smith."
Yeargh.
.
In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
For that to work well, the Apple employees have to be representative of their diverse user base. It can happen, but it's not easy.
Pssst, March 24th but you didn't hear anything from me...
Or probably not. Rumors are that if a date has been leaked, with or without authorization, they tend to scrub it and hold it on another date.
Think that.... plus new CoreAnimation effects.
New CoreAnimation effects? I'm not sure what you mean. I thought CoreAnimation was an added layer to OpenGL to simplify 3D work by require less coding than using pure OpenGL. I didn't notice anything in that video or in the original Leopard presentation that showed it added effects not already possible using OpenGL.
Leopard will remind us all of the first OS X: "10.0 Cheetah" because of the issues it will have.
But it will be so compelling that you'll live with the bugginess and not care a whit.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6!
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
My Theory - I'm sure there are a lot of issues and problems in the stripped down, feature barren releases that Apple is letting outside of its doors. Remember that this is the same company that is so guarded about its secrets that it created fake iPhone prototypes to throw off partners and people inside the company while developing that product. Leopard isn't any different. Steve Jobs has already said that there are these "top secret" features to the new OS and we've not seen any of those - indicating to me that they're stripping these from the beta software that they're giving to developers. I'm sure there is another set of code around the Cupertino campus which includes the full set of features and probably a lot less bugs. I could be wrong, but that's my theory. 8)
Sorry, that's a bad theory. Ignoring the whole stripped out 'secret' features, there's no reason for apple to strip out bug fixes for all these components. Since the releases are for testing your software (and to test the OS itself), how can you be sure your software will work if you can't even access network shares reliably, or certain conditions always cause a crash?
And who are they trying to throw off? The only competitor is MS, and are they sitting around going "Hey, Leopard still is buggy, we can goof off for a week...Wait! Its been released??? Arrrgggghhhh! We're screwed now!
Perhaps they should rename Leopard into Longhorn...
*Ahem*
Maybe we should wait another year or two before that happens. It's not that late, you know.