In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
Um, first off, the iPhone software isn't even close to being done. Ergo, whatever testing they've done on it has been limited at best (why else do you think no one could even touch the device but Steve himself?). \\
And testing the iPhone or iPod, which are completely closed platforms, can be done in house. But with an OS that's going to be running a myriad of programs, accessing hordes of peripherals, and working on all sorts of variations of hardware, you just can't test it well in-house. Nothing beats public testing.
The only way the 'top secret' features can be included without full-fledge testing through the betas is if they are NOT OS features, but add-on applications and such that don't require integration into other programs.
The thought that its a UI change seems far-fetched, because if you're screwing with the UI, shouldn't you make sure that your developer's apps will work well with the new UI changes? Of course, you'd also think they'd do this so they could get some input from others besides the know-it-alls at apple who think they know how a good UI is supposed to work (and that's how we got the current finder, the incessant changes to iTunes, the Aqua and Brushed metal fiascos, etc).
I sure hope this is ready by June! It sounds dismal. And realistically, when will they reveal the new features (like an upgraded Finder) to developers?
One would think they should have shown them at MWSF. I get this feeling that Leopard is months behind schedule.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6! \
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
10.1 was free for some owners. Others still had to pay $20 shipping and handling since you could only get the free version at your not-so-local apple store.
And you only have to wait until 10.5.3 or 10.5.4 for the bugs to be ironed out. And you'll like it!
New CoreAnimation effects? I'm not sure what you mean. I thought CoreAnimation was an added layer to OpenGL to simplify 3D work by require less coding than using pure OpenGL. I didn't notice anything in that video or in the original Leopard presentation that showed it added effects not already possible using OpenGL.
It's an API that makes creating animation *dramatically* easier, and -- I'm speculating now -- I believe could also allow for certain animations to be much more easily dynamically generated by the OS itself. It's not that it wasn't possible to do this before, exactly, but it's so much easier to do with Core Animation (something like 10x less the code is required) that IMO it's unthinkable that Apple would introduce this and not use it, *especially* when their competition finally has a savvy graphics compositing system and is all blinged out.
I believe the "Top Secret" stuff will give Steve an excuse to show off the stuff at WWDC then turn around and say, "Since these features are so cool and we want to get them right so the release is being delayed to the end of summer."
I'm afraid that is exactly what's going to happen. If it's either late or the secret features were just hype it's going to look bad for Apple. If it arrives after Vista SP1, it's going to look doubly bad.
There's a good possiblity that much of the very foundation of OS X (kernel and core services) will be completely swapped out in the final builds, and an 11th-hour swap will be made to keep the lid on things until then.
Having said that, though, I still consider a release this month as very unlikely... and as much as I'd be thrilled for it to happen, I'd rather Leopard be rock-solid upon release. With it's immediate and direct comparison to Vista, it needs to be as flawless as possible.
On the contrary, you don't want to be mucking with the kernel and core services at the last minute. The secret features that steve has up his sleeve will most likely be cosmetic and superficial so as not to require a whole lot of external testing.
You can't swap out kernels or file systems without serious testing as these components will have far reaching ramifications for every component of the system.
I believe we will see a redesigned Finder, a replacement for the Aqua GUI and a new mapping application based on Google Earth.
It would certainly be far less lame than MS's method of working the X in XP... "it stands for XPerience" - c'mon.
Nice pirate expletive, too, BTW.
tcl, please forgive me if you already know this, but the "XP" stands for Chi-Rho ( Cairo ). I suspect the reason they didn't promote this is that they might have gotten some backlash of some people thinking they were making light of the "Labarum" symbol of christ.
OK that's enough thinking about Microsoft for the day... I feel dirty.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6! \
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
I'd agree with that. OS X didn't really become what I'd call 'everyday usable' until Jaguar (10.2)... 10.1 and 10.0 were simply too slooow. \
That said, everything since then has been pretty much muy bueno... Leopard will have a few bugs upon release, sure, but likely nothing like a Microsoft OS, which you don't want to touch with a ten-foot pole until Service Pack 2...
Not trying to pick on you here Johnny but, what makes you think that?
Redesigned Finder
Almost everyone will agree that the Finder needs serious work. But so far the public betas of Leopard have shown little to no attention paid to the Finder. Why? Because they aren't updating THAT Finder anymore. We will see the new Finder in Leopard.
Replacement for Aqua GUI
Aqua was originally introduced in 2000 pinstripes and all. It has evolved over time and Microsoft copied a little of it in XP and a lot of it in Vista. In Tiger Apple introduced the concept of resolution independent GUI and has been prepping developers for the switchover. Steve will be unveiling the replacement of Aqua which will be resolution independent and make Vista look dated.
Mapping Application
One of the biggest gapping holes in Mac OS X software is consumer GPS mapping software. Microsoft makes Streets and Trips and there are many third party solutions to choose from. There was 1 choice for similar GPS software on the Mac until Route 66 was discontinued. Currently there is no Mac native solution. The iPhone includes mapping capabilities and Leopard will likely include a full blown version of the same app. It will integrate with other applications such as AddressBook and iPhoto.
tcl, please forgive me if you already know this, but the "XP" stands for Chi-Rho ( Cairo ).
Internally... but not how they marketed to the public (who would have certainly not gotten the reference).
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr
I suspect the reason they didn't promote this is that they might have gotten some backlash of some people thinking they were making light of the "Labarum" symbol of christ.
Plus it would have had all the statisticians in a tizzy Not to mention the fact that WinFS was a designated feature of Cairo that didn't ship until Vis... oh, wait... that still hasn't shipped :O
To run Mac OS X Leopard, you must have a Macintosh computer:
Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 or G5 processor
or an iPhone?
;-)
Just for the record there is no way in hell Leopard is going to be done by June even. Apple leaves the same bugs in that existed with the WWDC preview.
I swear Apple is using it's own broken XCode 3 to write parts of Leopard.
OK, after reading these posts, along with looking at the surprises mac has unleashed in the past, I am going along with the following.
The seeded version is a paired down version of Leopard, missing many enhancements. The interface design still looks the same in the seeded version. I truly believe, after seeing Time Machine as well as front row, that mac will be pushing a 3d interface. Think, folders on different z positions. Also, how many designers, including microsoft, jumped on the aqua interface bandwagon, incorporating it into their designs? I'm certain Mac has something hidden up their sleeve that will shift the thinking of design. I design sites using XHTML and CSS, and it doesn't take me more than a few hours to reskin a site. I'm sure the pro developers at Mac can do this. And what a way to catch Microsoft, and the rest of us, off guard. MS design their Aqua OS, which by the way is pretty impressive in looks - and I'm a Mac guy, and Mac flips the design industry by coming out with something completely different. Even switch the skin of the site. Now that would be impact!
Looking at Time Machine, for instance, reminds me of a background image from Mortal Kombat. I hope this was a temporary image to show off the product rather than the final.
As for a lot of features corrupting files and freezing Safari. This, pure speculation, could be due to the fact that they require the support of top secret features. Do you really think that Mac would be seeding an OS with so many bugs, especially if they plan on releasing Leopard in the next couple of months. Although, as good as they are about holding to deadlines, take a look at Apple TV and the rumored Final Cut Extreme.
So I truly believe that Mac will bring forth a revolutionary product. Will it be completely bug free? Probably not. Heck, we glorify Volvo, but even they have recalls http://www.automotive.com/used-cars/...lvo/index.html. As for timetables, I truly believe we NEED to be patient. I would rather Mac spend the next 6 months getting their product "Right", than to rush it based on our impatience. Finally, all in all, I think Mac knows what they are doing. Running out seeds to developers, giving Microsoft a run for their money, as well as their placement in one of the top brands in the world definitely go to show that "Mac Means Business".
How exactly do they test the secret features while still keeping them secret?
Certain Developers who actually do test the development frameworks extensively, both across the spectrum and deeply in each group, are the ones that bang on the system long before they go to general developer consumption. They'll be the ones that get to see the "secret features" and sign a legal contract that will give them no case if they violate it.
I really think they are going to bring on a new UI (see rumours about "illuminuous" or smth like that). Rumours say it is going to be a more black-oriented UI, more like we see in the full screen mode in iPhoto. That would be cool I guess. March seems too early for me too.
That would be cool, a new gui with tons of outstanding new features that blow the doors off Redmond. Why not just release OSXI (OS Eleven) Apple and really suprise us all.
In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
Good chance that what developers are getting is old code as you stated, also that some of the instability issues maybe caused by the stripping process.
However a June 21 rollout would have significant impact on the hardware and pro software that seems to be coming in the next 3 months. Delaying those due to Leopard running later, would have significant impact on the quaterly totals.
I hope you are right and that Leopard is almost ready.
Good chance that what developers are getting is old code as you stated, also that some of the instability issues maybe caused by the stripping process.
Hey, I hope not! I'm in the middle (ok, one third of the way through) downloading some 5+ GB of Leopard, all set to try it out on my new test machine and do some thorough testing. I hope I'm not going to all that effort for nothing :-)
Comments
In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
Um, first off, the iPhone software isn't even close to being done. Ergo, whatever testing they've done on it has been limited at best (why else do you think no one could even touch the device but Steve himself?). \\
And testing the iPhone or iPod, which are completely closed platforms, can be done in house. But with an OS that's going to be running a myriad of programs, accessing hordes of peripherals, and working on all sorts of variations of hardware, you just can't test it well in-house. Nothing beats public testing.
The only way the 'top secret' features can be included without full-fledge testing through the betas is if they are NOT OS features, but add-on applications and such that don't require integration into other programs.
The thought that its a UI change seems far-fetched, because if you're screwing with the UI, shouldn't you make sure that your developer's apps will work well with the new UI changes? Of course, you'd also think they'd do this so they could get some input from others besides the know-it-alls at apple who think they know how a good UI is supposed to work (and that's how we got the current finder, the incessant changes to iTunes, the Aqua and Brushed metal fiascos, etc).
I sure hope this is ready by June! It sounds dismal. And realistically, when will they reveal the new features (like an upgraded Finder) to developers?
One would think they should have shown them at MWSF. I get this feeling that Leopard is months behind schedule.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6!
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
10.1 was free for some owners. Others still had to pay $20 shipping and handling since you could only get the free version at your not-so-local apple store.
And you only have to wait until 10.5.3 or 10.5.4 for the bugs to be ironed out. And you'll like it!
New CoreAnimation effects? I'm not sure what you mean. I thought CoreAnimation was an added layer to OpenGL to simplify 3D work by require less coding than using pure OpenGL. I didn't notice anything in that video or in the original Leopard presentation that showed it added effects not already possible using OpenGL.
It's an API that makes creating animation *dramatically* easier, and -- I'm speculating now -- I believe could also allow for certain animations to be much more easily dynamically generated by the OS itself. It's not that it wasn't possible to do this before, exactly, but it's so much easier to do with Core Animation (something like 10x less the code is required) that IMO it's unthinkable that Apple would introduce this and not use it, *especially* when their competition finally has a savvy graphics compositing system and is all blinged out.
I believe the "Top Secret" stuff will give Steve an excuse to show off the stuff at WWDC then turn around and say, "Since these features are so cool and we want to get them right so the release is being delayed to the end of summer."
I'm afraid that is exactly what's going to happen. If it's either late or the secret features were just hype it's going to look bad for Apple. If it arrives after Vista SP1, it's going to look doubly bad.
There's a good possiblity that much of the very foundation of OS X (kernel and core services) will be completely swapped out in the final builds, and an 11th-hour swap will be made to keep the lid on things until then.
Having said that, though, I still consider a release this month as very unlikely... and as much as I'd be thrilled for it to happen, I'd rather Leopard be rock-solid upon release. With it's immediate and direct comparison to Vista, it needs to be as flawless as possible.
On the contrary, you don't want to be mucking with the kernel and core services at the last minute. The secret features that steve has up his sleeve will most likely be cosmetic and superficial so as not to require a whole lot of external testing.
You can't swap out kernels or file systems without serious testing as these components will have far reaching ramifications for every component of the system.
I believe we will see a redesigned Finder, a replacement for the Aqua GUI and a new mapping application based on Google Earth.
I believe we will see a redesigned Finder, a replacement for the Aqua GUI and a new mapping application based on Google Earth.
Not trying to pick on you here Johnny but, what makes you think that?
LOL
It would certainly be far less lame than MS's method of working the X in XP... "it stands for XPerience" - c'mon.
Nice pirate expletive, too, BTW.
tcl, please forgive me if you already know this, but the "XP" stands for Chi-Rho ( Cairo ). I suspect the reason they didn't promote this is that they might have gotten some backlash of some people thinking they were making light of the "Labarum" symbol of christ.
OK that's enough thinking about Microsoft for the day... I feel dirty.
Heh, if that's true then it looks like I'll be holding off on an upgrade until 10.6!
I think I speak for many a Mac user when I say that OS 9 was far more "compelling" at that particular point in history. The quickly followed release of 10.1 (and moreover its free availability to 10.0 owners) speaks volumes about how "compelling" 10.0 really was...
I'd agree with that. OS X didn't really become what I'd call 'everyday usable' until Jaguar (10.2)... 10.1 and 10.0 were simply too slooow.
That said, everything since then has been pretty much muy bueno... Leopard will have a few bugs upon release, sure, but likely nothing like a Microsoft OS, which you don't want to touch with a ten-foot pole until Service Pack 2...
.
One would think they should have shown them at MWSF. I get this feeling that Leopard is months behind schedule.
I've got confidence we'll have it by the end of spring. If it was really "months" behind schedule, their website wouldn't still say "spring 2007"
Not trying to pick on you here Johnny but, what makes you think that?
Redesigned Finder
Almost everyone will agree that the Finder needs serious work. But so far the public betas of Leopard have shown little to no attention paid to the Finder. Why? Because they aren't updating THAT Finder anymore. We will see the new Finder in Leopard.
Replacement for Aqua GUI
Aqua was originally introduced in 2000 pinstripes and all. It has evolved over time and Microsoft copied a little of it in XP and a lot of it in Vista. In Tiger Apple introduced the concept of resolution independent GUI and has been prepping developers for the switchover. Steve will be unveiling the replacement of Aqua which will be resolution independent and make Vista look dated.
Mapping Application
One of the biggest gapping holes in Mac OS X software is consumer GPS mapping software. Microsoft makes Streets and Trips and there are many third party solutions to choose from. There was 1 choice for similar GPS software on the Mac until Route 66 was discontinued. Currently there is no Mac native solution. The iPhone includes mapping capabilities and Leopard will likely include a full blown version of the same app. It will integrate with other applications such as AddressBook and iPhoto.
Making me believe that the modest 2MP iPhone camera is gonna blow your socks off (not joking!): http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2108
Apple must have added this little thingie for a reason ?
Haleluja! :O
tcl, please forgive me if you already know this, but the "XP" stands for Chi-Rho ( Cairo ).
Internally... but not how they marketed to the public (who would have certainly not gotten the reference).
I suspect the reason they didn't promote this is that they might have gotten some backlash of some people thinking they were making light of the "Labarum" symbol of christ.
Plus it would have had all the statisticians in a tizzy
Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 or G5 processor
or an iPhone?
;-)
Just for the record there is no way in hell Leopard is going to be done by June even. Apple leaves the same bugs in that existed with the WWDC preview.
I swear Apple is using it's own broken XCode 3 to write parts of Leopard.
The seeded version is a paired down version of Leopard, missing many enhancements. The interface design still looks the same in the seeded version. I truly believe, after seeing Time Machine as well as front row, that mac will be pushing a 3d interface. Think, folders on different z positions. Also, how many designers, including microsoft, jumped on the aqua interface bandwagon, incorporating it into their designs? I'm certain Mac has something hidden up their sleeve that will shift the thinking of design. I design sites using XHTML and CSS, and it doesn't take me more than a few hours to reskin a site. I'm sure the pro developers at Mac can do this. And what a way to catch Microsoft, and the rest of us, off guard. MS design their Aqua OS, which by the way is pretty impressive in looks - and I'm a Mac guy, and Mac flips the design industry by coming out with something completely different. Even switch the skin of the site. Now that would be impact!
Looking at Time Machine, for instance, reminds me of a background image from Mortal Kombat. I hope this was a temporary image to show off the product rather than the final.
As for a lot of features corrupting files and freezing Safari. This, pure speculation, could be due to the fact that they require the support of top secret features. Do you really think that Mac would be seeding an OS with so many bugs, especially if they plan on releasing Leopard in the next couple of months. Although, as good as they are about holding to deadlines, take a look at Apple TV and the rumored Final Cut Extreme.
So I truly believe that Mac will bring forth a revolutionary product. Will it be completely bug free? Probably not. Heck, we glorify Volvo, but even they have recalls http://www.automotive.com/used-cars/...lvo/index.html. As for timetables, I truly believe we NEED to be patient. I would rather Mac spend the next 6 months getting their product "Right", than to rush it based on our impatience. Finally, all in all, I think Mac knows what they are doing. Running out seeds to developers, giving Microsoft a run for their money, as well as their placement in one of the top brands in the world definitely go to show that "Mac Means Business".
How exactly do they test the secret features while still keeping them secret?
Certain Developers who actually do test the development frameworks extensively, both across the spectrum and deeply in each group, are the ones that bang on the system long before they go to general developer consumption. They'll be the ones that get to see the "secret features" and sign a legal contract that will give them no case if they violate it.
*Ahem*
Maybe we should wait another year or two before that happens. It's not that late, you know.
It's on schedule. To say it is "not that late" is a misstatement.
I really think they are going to bring on a new UI (see rumours about "illuminuous" or smth like that). Rumours say it is going to be a more black-oriented UI, more like we see in the full screen mode in iPhoto. That would be cool I guess. March seems too early for me too.
That would be cool, a new gui with tons of outstanding new features that blow the doors off Redmond. Why not just release OSXI (OS Eleven) Apple and really suprise us all.
In house. The tested all the iPhone software in house, with no testing outside Apple. If they can do that, I'm sure the build these developers are getting is the build Apple was working on over 6 months ago.
Good chance that what developers are getting is old code as you stated, also that some of the instability issues maybe caused by the stripping process.
However a June 21 rollout would have significant impact on the hardware and pro software that seems to be coming in the next 3 months. Delaying those due to Leopard running later, would have significant impact on the quaterly totals.
I hope you are right and that Leopard is almost ready.
Good chance that what developers are getting is old code as you stated, also that some of the instability issues maybe caused by the stripping process.
Hey, I hope not! I'm in the middle (ok, one third of the way through) downloading some 5+ GB of Leopard, all set to try it out on my new test machine and do some thorough testing. I hope I'm not going to all that effort for nothing :-)
-Rolf