Apple is a hardware company who, accidently, provides a pretty good OS in the mix for free.
It has nothing to do with hardware dictatorship, it's their bussines selling hardware.
If they sell more hardware by making excellent software than they are probably the only company who understands how things should work.
Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.
Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.
Only Dell and possibly HP do that though. Everyone else is either loosing money, happy with ultra slim margins or just not bothering with that market and concentrating on the ones that do make money. You can't really blame Apple for that.
Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.
...Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
Somehow I don't think throwing a precious princess tantrum is going to do it.
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.
Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?
If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.
Vinea
I know what windows is like. I'd probably give linux a look. I haven't ever used it so perhaps I wouldn't like that experience.
Right now my pc laptop at work ( I don't use it hardly at all) is running like crap. Real slow and stuttering. Ran my spy detection software and have 50! infections. The license ran out on my software so while I can run diagnostics I can't get rid if them until I renew. When I've some free time I'll sit down and do it but I'm not looking forward to it.
Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?
If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.
It's another frying pan instead of a new fire?
The OP seems to enjoy fiddling with computer hardware to a point most of us that value things working would find distracting. There's nothing quite like building you're own box-o-crap and running Linux on it for distracting a nerd from getting work done.
You can even suggest it's productive work since you're actually achieving something instead of just fiddling with your computer playing whack-a-mole with the updates that pop up in the system tray every time I turn away from my Windows box. Some people think this is work too but I think it's just there to stop people playing Solitaire or Minesweeper.
Have you much experience with Windows? Having switched back to Macs I can tell you that you're in for a serious *relearning* experience. I've pcs at work and it's a painful experience to use them. Good luck and I won't think less of you if you decide to come back to the Mac community.
I never really quit using Windows, I use it on my workbench, Mac at my desk. One thing that I hate about the Mac OS is even when all controls are supposedly set to be accessible to keyboards by tabbing though them, too often there are a few controls that really aren't. I think it's irritating and inefficient to have to touch a mouse to activate a control when a tab + enter would do the job.
You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.
Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.
What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.
There is a lot of low cost or free software to do nearly anything, that's usually good enough for most people without having to spend a lot of money. I do buy software, but slowly and usually not the very expensive apps.
Just so Mordak doesn't get confused/offended, Melgross means that you can stick new quad-core chips in your MacPro, fairly "easy" replacement along the lines of: http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/09/....core.mac.pro/
Just so Mordak doesn't get confused/offended, Melgross means that you can stick new quad-core chips in your MacPro, fairly "easy" replacement along the lines of: http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/09/....core.mac.pro/
It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.
Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.
Bought one from dabs.com. All aluminium, 2.5" drive USB 2.0. Been perfect. Cost £9.
It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.
Nobody would do that right away. After having the machine for a year, it might prove to be a good idea. The chips will be less expensive then as well.
Besides this isn't surgery. Everything can be placed back just as it was, as long as you kept your original chips.
You could be waiting a long time. There's no indication Apple are going to dip into the low margin end of the desktop market and with desktop sales in the consumer sector declining, why would they?
Apple are already making computers for this market in the form of the iMac. I want an iMac but just in a different form i.e minus the display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
Ah, the tyranny of choice. Dells, Dells everywhere but not an OS that doesn't stink.
That's exactly the point we're making. Apple know they have a good OS but they don't put in the effort on the hardware side that they could. This is why it's a bad system for the consumer. Once Apple tie you into using their system, you don't have a choice but to use their hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
XPS 210 Headless? Pity they don't let you pick any card other than the X1300. To do that you've got to buy one of their crappy monitors.
It's still a better card than the Mini has by a long way and even though you maybe can't replace the card at the purchase stage, you could quite easily do it yourself. The fact is that you cannot do anything with the Mini in that respect at all. You either buy it or don't. That's not enough choice for a lot of people and so they can only choose not to buy it. I have to buy it because I use Apple software and it's the only machine I'm willing to buy. Like I say, I would love an iMac spec but not in the shape of the iMac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
You also get a tiny small form factor and almost silent operation which you don't from Dell. And you bought the ram and HD upgrade from Apple? Are you nuts? You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.
That's what I did - same with an external firewire burner because superdrives are rip-offs too but I'm comparing BTO options like for like. Dell are better is all I'm saying. It's true the Mini has the small form factor and the quiet operation but I'd sacrifice a bit of size to get a more flexible machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
You won't get a 17" screen as good as the iMac's screen for less than £150-170 so I'd beg to differ. Many of the cheap widescreen 17"s flooding the market are based on 6bit panels which sell to gamers based on over-inflated OMG!!! 2ms speed claims glossing over the fact they cant display colour accurately when their frag fest has finished.
I use CRT displays. LCDs don't cut it in color reproduction. They don't display black properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
Of course, there's nothing stopping attaching ANOTHER screen. Apart from that, it's also a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo with an X1600 GPU.
True but I don't want a display built into my computer because when the display dies, my computer is worthless until I spend hundreds of pounds on a repair. With a separate display, the most I'll pay is the cost of a 3rd party display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
You do know you can swap out the Mac Mini's CPU for a Core 2 Duo CPU don't you? They're pin compatible. Just as you could on the Dell.
Where's the sense in paying more for a Mini to then spend more money buying a CPU to equal the spec of a cheaper Dell? Apple just need to stop concentrating on their phones and TV devices and give us Mac updates. All I hear from Apple is iphone this and Apple TV that or something to do with the ipod. I don't care about any of that. One thing you can say about other computer manufacturers is that they focus on the customer base that makes them the most money.
To me it's as if they think they can do whatever they like because they know we are going nowhere due the OS/hardware lock-in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
Yes, Apple are overdue a refresh on the Mini but the only refresh that really makes sense is to wait for Intel's next GMA laptop chipset and that's only just trickling out. A Core 2 Duo upgrade alone makes very little sense.
Well, it brings the mini into alignment with all the other products and they should be offering the 1.83GHz chip at the low end like the Macbook given that it's the same price as the 1.66 GHz. As you say, it's as easy as pushing the new chip into place, Apple just want to make their Mini look less appealling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
The hard drive clunk is a function of the brand of laptop drive used. When it powers down it sometimes clunks. If you don't want it making that noise, set the drive to not ever sleep in the energy saver prefs. Or replace it with a different brand. Or just get used to it. It's not like Apple are the only ones with this brand of drive.
This isn't an energy thing because I keep all my drives on. It's a problem whereby the servo mechanism gets screwed up and makes the drive head bang repeatedly against the mechanical stop. It happens if the machine is left on for long periods of time and starts at random and doesn't stop until you sleep the machine and wake it up. That resets the control. It may be caused by temperature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
I agree with you about getting inside a Mini though. It doesn't really have to be so difficult. Same thing with the iMac. I've a Rev A G5 and it's IMHO Apple's best ever design for accessibility in the non-PowerMac models.
Yes, I love the iMac for that but it could be just as easy to open a Mini if they had used a few screws on the bottom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
If they'd made it easier, perhaps the cries for mid towers would be less. The Mac Mini could have been a nice Kurobox style community dev platform.
I think that would be the case if they were slightly more expandable. One PCI-e slot for example.
Comments
Why should Apple let Dell have the hardware sale?
Apple is a hardware company who, accidently, provides a pretty good OS in the mix for free.
It has nothing to do with hardware dictatorship, it's their bussines selling hardware.
If they sell more hardware by making excellent software than they are probably the only company who understands how things should work.
Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.
Let me clarify myself... the only reason I wish OS X would run on Dell is simply because Dell gives me more options at a much better price - at least when it comes to the tower-type hardware. I would rather say, "I wish Apple offered more configuration options at a Dell-level price", but I know that aint happening.
Only Dell and possibly HP do that though. Everyone else is either loosing money, happy with ultra slim margins or just not bothering with that market and concentrating on the ones that do make money. You can't really blame Apple for that.
Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.
I'm not in any way a Windows/MS fanboy. I've been a Mac lover for the last 20 years.
Experience with Windows?... Here's an excerpt from my resume:
TECHNICAL SKILLS
LAN / WAN Administration
? Understanding of concepts, technologies, and best practices essential to LAN / WAN design
? Configuration of Cisco hardware such as routers, firewalls, switches and bridges
? Data Center and Disaster Recovery Center design, research, engineering and construction
? Installation and administration of Exchange email servers, Active Directory domain controllers, and SQL
? Administration of Microsoft Windows Server 2003/2000/XP, Mac OS X, Linux, HPUX, and FreeBSD
? Provisioning of wide and local area networks utilizing Frame Relay, T1, VPN, OC, MPLS and wireless
? Maintenance and execution of backup schedules and media rotation for servers and databases
? Installation and repair of CAT5e/6, fiber optic, coaxial cable, and wireless network infrastructure
? Management of network services such as TCP/IP, HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, SMTP, DNS and DHCP
Computer Hardware
? Evaluation, acquisition, and upgrades of Dell and HP rack-mount server hardware
? Troubleshooting, diagnostics, and repair of faulty workstation and server hardware
? Testing and installation of printers, scanners, modems, wired / wireless network adapters
Computer Software
? Evaluation and testing of software in test environments before deploying to live systems
? Remote installation and management of operating systems, software, device drivers, etc.
? License management and detailed record keeping of software and license compliance
? Software security and virus management and removal using enterprise-level virus mitigation tools
Help Desk & End User Support
? Implementation and maintenance of help desk system to keep track of work order status and resolution
? Clear, effective, and timely communication with management, co-workers, customers, and vendors
? Unobtrusive troubleshooting of software, hardware, and network errors both remotely and on-site
EXPERIENCE
Network Administrator, (Financial Industry / Southern Oregon), July 2004 ? June 2006
? Designed, configured, implemented and administered Local and Wide Area Networks for credit union
? Supported end users and maintained all workstations, printers, scanners, servers and core systems
? Worked with team to develop and manage Information Security Management System and related policies
? Rolled out network and communications infrastructure for new credit union branch offices.
? Designed, managed and maintained credit union data center infrastructure and systems.
? Received training and experience on Harland Financial Solutions? FSP, Ultradata and Ultrafis
? Performed nightly data processing tasks, backup procedures, etc.
Network Technician, (Telecom Industry / Southern Oregon), December 1999 ? January 2002
? Implemented and administered corporate LAN, workstations, printers, servers, cabling and phone systems
? Researched, designed, built and managed ISP offering dialup and wireless ISP services
? Supported and resolved technical and accounting issues for customers, staff and departments
Your gonna need that experience!
If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.
...Plus, IMHO it'd cheapen the brand and have knock on effects elsewhere in their business.
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
Somehow I don't think throwing a precious princess tantrum is going to do it.
Your gonna need that experience!
If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.
Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?
If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.
Vinea
Cheapen the brand or not... if Apple doesn't figure out how to give me what I want I'm switching platforms. Period. Oh wait, I just did! When Apple comes around on this I will consider switching back.
What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.
Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?
If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.
Vinea
I know what windows is like. I'd probably give linux a look. I haven't ever used it so perhaps I wouldn't like that experience.
Right now my pc laptop at work ( I don't use it hardly at all) is running like crap. Real slow and stuttering. Ran my spy detection software and have 50! infections. The license ran out on my software so while I can run diagnostics I can't get rid if them until I renew. When I've some free time I'll sit down and do it but I'm not looking forward to it.
Why? Why bother moving from the one niche unix platform to another niche unix platform?
If you're going to switch then Windows is the way to go...all other whining aside.
It's another frying pan instead of a new fire?
The OP seems to enjoy fiddling with computer hardware to a point most of us that value things working would find distracting. There's nothing quite like building you're own box-o-crap and running Linux on it for distracting a nerd from getting work done.
You can even suggest it's productive work since you're actually achieving something instead of just fiddling with your computer playing whack-a-mole with the updates that pop up in the system tray every time I turn away from my Windows box. Some people think this is work too but I think it's just there to stop people playing Solitaire or Minesweeper.
Have you much experience with Windows? Having switched back to Macs I can tell you that you're in for a serious *relearning* experience. I've pcs at work and it's a painful experience to use them. Good luck and I won't think less of you if you decide to come back to the Mac community.
I never really quit using Windows, I use it on my workbench, Mac at my desk. One thing that I hate about the Mac OS is even when all controls are supposedly set to be accessible to keyboards by tabbing though them, too often there are a few controls that really aren't. I think it's irritating and inefficient to have to touch a mouse to activate a control when a tab + enter would do the job.
You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.
Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.
Your gonna need that experience!
If I were to move from the Mac platform I would look at linux, but that's me.
Linux has even fewer apps. It's nearly a perfect server but not so good as a desktop.
What a waste of money on software you have to purchase (almost) every time you switch platforms.
There is a lot of low cost or free software to do nearly anything, that's usually good enough for most people without having to spend a lot of money. I do buy software, but slowly and usually not the very expensive apps.
Uh, yeah.
It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.
Huh? I don't trust an external drive enclosure that's twice that price maybe not three times that price, I've had too many bad experiences with cheap enclosures.
Bought one from dabs.com. All aluminium, 2.5" drive USB 2.0. Been perfect. Cost £9.
They appear to be £7.99 now inc VAT.
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx...avigationKey=0
Forget the 8 core MacPro. I just want a MacPro for under $1000 - even if it's only a dual core.
Buy a used one. You might find it for a bit more than $1,000.
It is replaceable, but one concern is doing it then having problems getting warranty support if something goes wrong later. The drives, memory and cards are considered user replaceable, but not so much with the processors.
Nobody would do that right away. After having the machine for a year, it might prove to be a good idea. The chips will be less expensive then as well.
Besides this isn't surgery. Everything can be placed back just as it was, as long as you kept your original chips.
Bought one from dabs.com. All aluminium, 2.5" drive USB 2.0. Been perfect. Cost £9.
They appear to be £7.99 now inc VAT.
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx...avigationKey=0
I suppose that's an exception to the rule.
You could be waiting a long time. There's no indication Apple are going to dip into the low margin end of the desktop market and with desktop sales in the consumer sector declining, why would they?
Apple are already making computers for this market in the form of the iMac. I want an iMac but just in a different form i.e minus the display.
Ah, the tyranny of choice. Dells, Dells everywhere but not an OS that doesn't stink.
That's exactly the point we're making. Apple know they have a good OS but they don't put in the effort on the hardware side that they could. This is why it's a bad system for the consumer. Once Apple tie you into using their system, you don't have a choice but to use their hardware.
XPS 210 Headless? Pity they don't let you pick any card other than the X1300. To do that you've got to buy one of their crappy monitors.
It's still a better card than the Mini has by a long way and even though you maybe can't replace the card at the purchase stage, you could quite easily do it yourself. The fact is that you cannot do anything with the Mini in that respect at all. You either buy it or don't. That's not enough choice for a lot of people and so they can only choose not to buy it. I have to buy it because I use Apple software and it's the only machine I'm willing to buy. Like I say, I would love an iMac spec but not in the shape of the iMac.
You also get a tiny small form factor and almost silent operation which you don't from Dell. And you bought the ram and HD upgrade from Apple? Are you nuts? You could have saved yourself £75-100 just there and had a spare drive left over to stick in a £10 external drive case for backup.
That's what I did - same with an external firewire burner because superdrives are rip-offs too but I'm comparing BTO options like for like. Dell are better is all I'm saying. It's true the Mini has the small form factor and the quiet operation but I'd sacrifice a bit of size to get a more flexible machine.
You won't get a 17" screen as good as the iMac's screen for less than £150-170 so I'd beg to differ. Many of the cheap widescreen 17"s flooding the market are based on 6bit panels which sell to gamers based on over-inflated OMG!!! 2ms speed claims glossing over the fact they cant display colour accurately when their frag fest has finished.
I use CRT displays. LCDs don't cut it in color reproduction. They don't display black properly.
Of course, there's nothing stopping attaching ANOTHER screen. Apart from that, it's also a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo with an X1600 GPU.
True but I don't want a display built into my computer because when the display dies, my computer is worthless until I spend hundreds of pounds on a repair. With a separate display, the most I'll pay is the cost of a 3rd party display.
You do know you can swap out the Mac Mini's CPU for a Core 2 Duo CPU don't you? They're pin compatible. Just as you could on the Dell.
Where's the sense in paying more for a Mini to then spend more money buying a CPU to equal the spec of a cheaper Dell? Apple just need to stop concentrating on their phones and TV devices and give us Mac updates. All I hear from Apple is iphone this and Apple TV that or something to do with the ipod. I don't care about any of that. One thing you can say about other computer manufacturers is that they focus on the customer base that makes them the most money.
To me it's as if they think they can do whatever they like because they know we are going nowhere due the OS/hardware lock-in.
Yes, Apple are overdue a refresh on the Mini but the only refresh that really makes sense is to wait for Intel's next GMA laptop chipset and that's only just trickling out. A Core 2 Duo upgrade alone makes very little sense.
Well, it brings the mini into alignment with all the other products and they should be offering the 1.83GHz chip at the low end like the Macbook given that it's the same price as the 1.66 GHz. As you say, it's as easy as pushing the new chip into place, Apple just want to make their Mini look less appealling.
The hard drive clunk is a function of the brand of laptop drive used. When it powers down it sometimes clunks. If you don't want it making that noise, set the drive to not ever sleep in the energy saver prefs. Or replace it with a different brand. Or just get used to it. It's not like Apple are the only ones with this brand of drive.
This isn't an energy thing because I keep all my drives on. It's a problem whereby the servo mechanism gets screwed up and makes the drive head bang repeatedly against the mechanical stop. It happens if the machine is left on for long periods of time and starts at random and doesn't stop until you sleep the machine and wake it up. That resets the control. It may be caused by temperature.
I agree with you about getting inside a Mini though. It doesn't really have to be so difficult. Same thing with the iMac. I've a Rev A G5 and it's IMHO Apple's best ever design for accessibility in the non-PowerMac models.
Yes, I love the iMac for that but it could be just as easy to open a Mini if they had used a few screws on the bottom.
If they'd made it easier, perhaps the cries for mid towers would be less. The Mac Mini could have been a nice Kurobox style community dev platform.
I think that would be the case if they were slightly more expandable. One PCI-e slot for example.