Personal Vista Review

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  • Reply 41 of 126
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,542member
    gov, I for one think you're nuts. I'm not using Vista, granted, but I know in XP I CANNOT STAND the interface. The lack of Expose drives me bonkers, for example. Even the appearance of everything looks so similar, everything kind of blends together. I often have to type the first letter of the folder I am looking for to see amongst a list. I'm not sure why...it just doesn't stand out. Perhaps it's the yellowish color in the classic interface, which I need to use for performance reasons. Vista looks like it's better, I'll grant you that. I just know that as someone that uses both platforms almost every day, I have a lot of trouble with Windows and very little with Max OS X.



    Beyond the visual aspects and "finding stuff" aspect, I find that XP sucks at multitasking, particularly for iTunes and downloading updates. What would you say about Vista in tis regard (I know, you can't comment on iTunes right now)?



    How is putting the system into Standby? My Dell D610 is very quirky.



    External displays? Mirroring? Mine is operable but, again, quirky.



    Load time of apps? Not so good on this end.



    I realize we're talking different hardware, of course. I'm interested as to what you think of Vista's improvements in these areas.
  • Reply 42 of 126
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    On my machine the performance is either similar or better. The UI is snappier thanks to GPU acceleration.



    Multi-tasking is fine when I don't have iTunes open.
  • Reply 43 of 126
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    If I had pirated it I am the last person in the world to hide that. I pirate all kinds of stuff. I have a stupid amount of pirated movies, software, and music. ?MS Employee Hookup? isn?t a euphemism, it?s the truth, and it really isn?t important to the discussion.



    It is relevant. What's with all the weasel wording? Just say you have a $399 piece of software that you "got" for nothing from an MS employee.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    In Vista I have 7 different view options (Tiles, Details, List, Small/Medium/Large/Extra-Large Icon). That is flexibility.

    There is a nice breadcrumb trail at the top (clickable at every point).

    I have a graphical representation of the filesystem to the left that I can shrink and expand. I can put any file in the window anywhere in the OS simply by dragging and navigating spring-loaded windows.

    In detail view I have 8 different sorting criteria (which I can turn on and off).

    I can right-click cut-or-copy/paste documents anywhere.



    Not even a drop in the bucket compared to what Path Finder can do, Gee-Rat. For example, can you see a preview of any file (text, numeric, graphic,etc.) in a preview pane when that file is selected in your file manager? Can you edit that text file right inside your file manager? How about a complete metadata summary of that file in another simultaneously viewed pane? Can you "cut and paste" 11 or 32 or 68 distinct files in distant parts of your file sytem and put them in one newly created folder without moving out of your file manager? Can you burn that new folder still staying in your File Manager? Can you compress those files in that new folder and email them to your MS Hookup buddy, still not moving out of your file manager view? No, huh? Too bad.

    And that's only a smidgeon of what you can easily do with PF.
  • Reply 44 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    On my machine the performance is either similar or better. The UI is snappier thanks to GPU acceleration.



    Multi-tasking is fine when I don't have iTunes open.



    About your iTunes slowness/problems: I read somewhere today that the current iTunes version can get a corrupted library/database, did you try building a new library/starting from scratch?
  • Reply 45 of 126
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Quote:

    can you see a preview of any file (text, numeric, graphic,etc.) in a preview pane when that file is selected in your file manager?



    Yes.



    Quote:

    Can you edit that text file right inside your file manager?



    No.



    Quote:

    How about a complete metadata summary of that file in another simultaneously viewed pane?



    Yes.



    Quote:

    Can you "cut and paste" 11 or 32 or 68 distinct files in distant parts of your file sytem and put them in one newly created folder without moving out of your file manager?



    Yes.



    Quote:

    Can you burn that new folder still staying in your File Manager?



    Yes.



    Quote:

    Can you compress those files in that new folder and email them to your MS Hookup buddy, still not moving out of your file manager view?



    An e-mail window will open up, but yes.





    dutch pear:



    I haven’t tried rebuilding. I can’t imagine why it would be corrupted already.
  • Reply 46 of 126
    grov kept thinking that people who paid 399 for that piece of junk will be satisfied. YOU might be satisfied because you have your microsoft hookups and for some other people who pirate it, it doesn't matter either but be in the shoes on a person who paid 399 for a piece of junk software...

    yeah...
  • Reply 47 of 126
    lfe2211lfe2211 Posts: 507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by illutionz View Post


    here we go

    grov kept thinking that people who paid 399 for that piece of junk will be satisfied. YOU might be satisfied because you have your microsoft hookups and for some other people who pirate it, it doesn't matter either but be in the shoes on a person who paid 399 for a piece of junk software...

    yeah...



    I have no idea what you are trying to say. Can someone please translate it for me?
  • Reply 48 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    I have no idea what you are trying to say. Can someone please translate it for me?



    what i'm saying is the original poster keep thinking that vista is so great that people who paid 399 for it will be satisfied. I do not think people who paid 399 will be satisfied on that software.

    that's all
  • Reply 49 of 126
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    Too bad you have such a narrow minded view on this issue. No operating system is perfect. For 20 bucks, you're missing out on one the best apps ever written for OSX. Path Finder v 4.6 blows the doors off of the new Vista Explorer. It has file management features that Vista Explorer will never come close to. I suggest you read the Explorer analyses by such Vista luminairies as Mary Joe Foley, Mark Manasi, Ed Bott or Paul Thurrott.



    Path Finder also has other capabilities that go beyond file management but you'll never know since you've closed your mind on the topic because you "hate" the antiquated OSX Finder. It's akin to saying I won't use XP because IE 6 stinks (it does) and I'll never use Firefox (which is great) since it's not part of the Windows OS. What kind of fractured logic is that?



    Path Finder is pretty cool. Thanks for the "hookup"...
  • Reply 50 of 126
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lfe2211 View Post


    I strongly,strongly,strongly disagree. Grisoft's AVG is not at all intrusive, is very small, runs fast and is free. Norton is a mega-memory hog supreme and often slows down the operating system to a crawl. When I had Norton, I'd shut it down until night time when I wasn't using the computer much. Not a safe situation for running windows but it was such an anchor on overall operations, I had to do this to preserve my sanity.



    Well I thought I would give AVG another chance. Since my 7.1 version was no longer supported I tried to upgrade to 7.5. It promptly crashed the system. Tried to uninstall and further crashage ensued. Damn I hate windows. Exactly how is this better than OSX again? I just don't see it.(ps last comments are directed to Groverat and anyone else who thinks windows is better)
  • Reply 51 of 126
    If you wish to talk about vista visit a pc forum & sastisfy yourselves there
  • Reply 52 of 126
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    For what I do, Windows has the best applications and I prefer the file browser.



    Word 2007 is better than any word processor I've used on the Mac.

    Firefox is the best browser of all and the Windows version is better than the OSX version.

    uTorrent is the best BT application I've used.

    Outlook 2007 is the best e-mail client I've used.

    foobar2k is the best music player I've used.

    Media Player Classic is the most flexible video player I've used.



    Now, I do miss two apps every time I'm not on my Powerbook:

    1) Adium - Hands down the best IM app out there. I love it and Windows has no real multi-protocol IM client that I like (trillian is OK).

    2) Handbrake - Simple and powerful h.264 encoder. MeGUI for Windows is far more complicated.



    I really would be fine with either OS, though to have OSX be my only OS I would probably be forced to spring for a Finder replacement like Path Finder. For now I just use my Windows machine to handle my file management.
  • Reply 53 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    For what I do, Windows has the best applications and I prefer the file browser.



    Word 2007 is better than any word processor I've used on the Mac.

    Firefox is the best browser of all and the Windows version is better than the OSX version.

    uTorrent is the best BT application I've used.

    Outlook 2007 is the best e-mail client I've used.

    foobar2k is the best music player I've used.

    Media Player Classic is the most flexible video player I've used.



    Now, I do miss two apps every time I'm not on my Powerbook:

    1) Adium - Hands down the best IM app out there. I love it and Windows has no real multi-protocol IM client that I like (trillian is OK).

    2) Handbrake - Simple and powerful h.264 encoder. MeGUI for Windows is far more complicated.



    I really would be fine with either OS, though to have OSX be my only OS I would probably be forced to spring for a Finder replacement like Path Finder. For now I just use my Windows machine to handle my file management.



    I do agree on many of your statement but Office 2007 is not good... i still hope that for office 2008 mac they do not include the absurd interface on office 2007
  • Reply 54 of 126
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    I have downloaded Path Finder, just to check it out on my Powerbook here. I don't know how you get it to edit text inside Path Finder, though.



    I also don't understand why I should have to pay $20 to get Explorer-level functionality in OSX. The Finder is perhaps the most important compnent of the operating system. Why is it such garbage?



    illuitonz:



    Office 2007 is the first version of MIcrosoft Office that I do not actively hate.



    The ribbon UI is quite intuitive, in my opinion, as it does away with the menu horror that Office has traditionally been.
  • Reply 55 of 126
    spindlerspindler Posts: 713member
    I love the Mac GUI as much as one can, but I agree with Groverat that the Finder is very limited in terms of moving files around. It is great for the little that it does but it doesn't offer enough.



    Let's say you want to move folders from one folder to another. Let's say you want to move them UP two levels. There should be a way to pop off a second finder window, THAT IS SET TO THE SAME PLACE AS THE FIRST, and then move up the two levels. then hit ONE key to put them BOTH in icon mode to easily drag them from one to the other.



    OTOH, I don't want a big old mess where you have TOO MANY options, like Windows. Some people who have very good eye coordination skills might be able to look among so many features and use them quickly, but for me, it just gets in the way.
  • Reply 56 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by illutionz View Post


    what i'm saying is the original poster keep thinking that vista is so great that people who paid 399 for it will be satisfied. I do not think people who paid 399 will be satisfied on that software.

    that's all



    I bought Vista and love it.



    I agree what Grover has said. I would post more but would rather sit back and laugh at all the slams I am about to get.



    Let the bashing begin.



    P.S. All of my guys in my group at work run Vista. Have since beta. They are happy. Soooo I guess you are wrong.
  • Reply 57 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trailmaster308 View Post


    I bought Vista and love it.



    I agree what Grover has said. I would post more but would rather sit back and laugh at all the slams I am about to get.



    Let the bashing begin.



    P.S. All of my guys in my group at work run Vista. Have since beta. They are happy. Soooo I guess you are wrong.



    like i said your mileage may vary... i know a lot of people who hates vista even when they get it at a discounted price or lower
  • Reply 58 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by illutionz View Post


    like i said your mileage may vary... i know a lot of people who hates vista even when they get it at a discounted price or lower



    No you said "I do not think people who paid 399 will be satisfied on that software.

    that's all"



    And I am saying I know lots of people who are satisfied. So even if we are the last people on earth who are satisfied with Vista...you are still wrong.
  • Reply 59 of 126
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    I want to move my files around. I want to rename them. I want to sort them with various options (date modified, size, filetype, whatever). Get the hell out of my way and let me do this.

    Why can?t I have a real list view?



    In Vista I have 7 different view options (Tiles, Details, List, Small/Medium/Large/Extra-Large Icon). That is flexibility.

    There is a nice breadcrumb trail at the top (clickable at every point).

    I have a graphical representation of the filesystem to the left that I can shrink and expand. I can put any file in the window anywhere in the OS simply by dragging and navigating spring-loaded windows.

    In detail view I have 8 different sorting criteria (which I can turn on and off).

    I can right-click cut-or-copy/paste documents anywhere.



    Apple should have a better file system navigator than Microsoft, and it is inexcusable that they don?t. I shouldn?t be in OSX thinking ?Man, I wish I could use Explorer right now?, but I do, constantly.



    1) Groverat, please politely ignore (as you have been doing) those who are trying to send you off to a PC forum. The discussion here comparing Vista and OS X features is one of the more civilized I have seen and I am enjoying it. Kudos to you for your manners, as well as to the polite Mac advocates.



    2) A preference is just a preference, and if you prefer how Explorer works for you, that's fine. But I would like to understand better your stated reasons for your preferences, and I also wonder if you have played with all of the OS X view options available to you. The following items are more specific questions about your quotes.



    3) "In Vista I have 7 different view options (Tiles, Details, List, Small/Medium/Large/Extra-Large Icon). That is flexibility."

    Not to be pedantic, but that just looks like 4 options to me. The Icon sizes are just suboptions.



    In OS X, you have 3 view options. I will call them Icon, List Details, and Column.



    a) The Icon view is comparable to Vista?s, but instead of 4 size options you have 28 sizes selectable from a slider in View->Show View Options. This is customizable to apply to all folders or different settings & sizes for each individual folder. Also the folder view background can be white, any color, or even a picture. There are other View options for Icons, such as check boxes for ?Snap to Grid?, ?Show Item info? (photo size, or # items in folder), ?Show icon preview? (useful for pictures), or ?Keep Arranged by? with optiions for date, size, etc. This seems plenty flexible to me.



    Vista may have some similar flexibility in its folder viewing options, and perhaps you prefer being able to select the 4 typical icon sizes more directly in each window. For myself, I prefer using one icon size for most of my windows, but I like being able to customize a window to default to a larger size (say for pictures with preview turned on).



    b) The OS X ?List Details? view is like Vista or XP ?Details? view. You say ?In detail view I have 8 different sorting criteria (which I can turn on and off).? So does OS X. From View-> Show View Options, you can also enable/disable 7 optional sorting criteria (the 8th, or first really, Name, is always enabled). The typical window shows Name, Date Modified, Kind, and Size. But you can also show Date Created, Version, Comments, and Label. You can also choose a small or large Icon to sit beside the Name. From within the Details window, you can drag the 7 optional columns around to show in any order. You click on a column to sort, then again to reverse sort, just like in XP (and presumably Vista).



    Bonus feature: The Date Modified column in OS X smartly reformats as the column width changes. At a wide setting, it may say August 18, 2006, 2:00 PM. As you shrink the column width, it abbreviates the month ?Aug 18, 2006, 2:00 PM? then changes to more compact notation ?8/18/06 , 2:00 PM?, then finally just shows the date ?8/18/06?. This is nicer than just truncating the string. What does Vista do?



    You can also select the option to show folder sizes in the detail view (handy for checking for disk space bloat) or not (reliving the CPU of that chore for faster viewing response).



    I?m not just trying to just tally features here. You said Vista is flexible, and I am just trying to demonstrate that OS X is as well.



    c) The OS X Column View, as originally developed for ?NeXT?, is an interesting alternative. It shows folders and files with a new column for each level of descent into the file system folders. It seems like it would be very efficient for moving around the file system quickly. I don?t actually use it much, but neither do I generally like the list view in XP. I just prefer the ?details? list for most browsing. But this is, in fact, a view method that many people like, and I don?t believe it has a Windows equivalent.



    d) Vista/XP List view. I presume you mean the option of just listing the names. I see that there is benefit in this for looking at folders containing many files. In OS X, you could virtually get the same effect by setting Icon view icon size to smallest setting and set to arrange by name. Yes, I know this is not the same as being able to quickly tioggle between Icon and ?List? views. But again, I am not really a fan of List View in my XP at work, and if I had a folder with many files, I would want small icons in Icon view anyway, so I would set it this way. All the same, your point is accepted, that this feature is not directly available in OS X.



    e) Tiles. This seems like just another equivalent of OS X Icon view with ?preview? and ?Show item info? enabled. The Vista ?Extended Tiles? view does have more info than OS X Icon view can provide, but do you really use this?



    4) ?There is a nice breadcrumb trail at the top (clickable at every point).?

    Nice feature. Always visible path to where you are. I can see how you get used to it.



    In Mac OS X, I set the Toolbar for all windows to include the ?Path? Icon. I click it and it shows me the ?breadcrumb trail? also clickable at every point. One click instead of the path being always visible, bu t I don?t find that a big deal. Longtime Mac users also know you can get the same info by holding the Command key down while clicking on the folder name at the top (Title bar) of the Finder window.



    5) ?I have a graphical representation of the filesystem to the left that I can shrink and expand. I can put any file in the window anywhere in the OS simply by dragging and navigating spring-loaded windows.?

    Nice feature. But I see the same capabilities in OS X, just arranged differently. In OS X List Details view, you can shrink and expand the folders in just the same way as Vista?s graphical representation. Vista?s approach is a hybrid of the OS X List Details view and Column view. Vista uses 2 columns of sorts, with the folders on the left column and the file list for a particular folder on the right. OS X List Details puts them all in one column, and Column view puts one column for each directory level. Vista?s approach is OK,but I would hesitate to claim it is clearly better. It?s more just what you are used to.

    Of course, OS X uses a sidebar that is much like Vista?s ?Favorite Links? shown in the image you posted. I think I prefer this approach, allowing more space for the ?favorites? than using it for the folders of the whole system. And of course all the folders in all the views and sidebars are spring-loaded in OS X as well.



    Thinking about it some more, I see how this feature can be handy. I get the same functionality by opening 2 windows to move files around, and Vista sort of gives you 2 windows in one. Hmmm... Still just seems different, not better. Maybe I?d change my mind if I used it, but it?s not what I would call essential.



    6) ?I can right-click cut-or-copy/paste documents anywhere.?

    In Mac OS X you can ?Control-Click? Copy/Paste documents anywhere, though not Cut/Paste. I honestly hadn?t noticed the lack of Cut/Paste for files because I always drag and drop.



    7) Question: Has Vista fixed the manual ?refresh view? nonsense in XP? In other words, if I move a file into folder in XP, it may not immediately show up in the view of that folder. I have to manually select ?Refresh view?. Also, if I edit a file in a folder and then I look in the ?Details? view for that folder, it is gone .... no it is just at the BOTTOM of the LIST and out of the sorted order !!! Manually refresh view to fix it. Big pain. I hope Vista fixed this.



    It?s late. Good night.



    Steve
  • Reply 60 of 126
    eboyeboy Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    It definitely works, without a doubt. I use 10.4 every day on my Powerbook and I haven’t thrown it out the window once, but it’s extremely bulky UI-wise and it’s not as flexible as Windows Explorer. I simply prefer Explorer and think of Finder as someone that I can work with but I really don’t like. Actually, I really just hate the Finder. I really wish bad things for it in its little software life.



    “Here’s this great OS! It’s fast, it’s beautiful, it’s really nice to use! Oh, and here’s its inbred cousin that’s going to sit on your couch and break all of your dishes while talking about how much he wants to sleep with your sister.”



    I want to move my files around. I want to rename them. I want to sort them with various options (date modified, size, filetype, whatever). Get the hell out of my way and let me do this.

    Why can’t I have a real list view?



    In Vista I have 7 different view options (Tiles, Details, List, Small/Medium/Large/Extra-Large Icon). That is flexibility.

    There is a nice breadcrumb trail at the top (clickable at every point).

    I have a graphical representation of the filesystem to the left that I can shrink and expand. I can put any file in the window anywhere in the OS simply by dragging and navigating spring-loaded windows.

    In detail view I have 8 different sorting criteria (which I can turn on and off).

    I can right-click cut-or-copy/paste documents anywhere.







    Apple should have a better file system navigator than Microsoft, and it is inexcusable that they don’t. I shouldn’t be in OSX thinking “Man, I wish I could use Explorer right now”, but I do, constantly.



    I just found out this thread, and I think I can share my 2 cents on Vista.



    To be honest, I expect more from Vista than XP because this OS had been develop for a prolong amount of time, and obviously it's not as exciting as it should be.



    The first thing is the rearrangement and renaming of all the familier functions, drive me crazy to looks things up. Control panels, just like in XP, have a XP version and the classic view, which both have so many misgivings... in the new view, you see in categories but never really know what's under the that category... because... user will never know where MS think a function should categorise under... then you go back to classic view... and funny that it's still the same classic view that you find yourself looking for that control panel every single time but not able to get it "right away", because the control panel icons reload everytime your window size change, so the location of that icon always change... damn... do they really know what's wrong with that? They only need a fix taht make sense to users, not a re-design that still not getting the problem!



    As other reviewers pointed, Vista spread function control all over the places, it take you forever to look for one culprit in your network, that's what I called bad interface design.



    And Groverat's point about 7 views in Vista is completely exaggeration. The 3 views of Vista are the same 3 views of XP, tile, list, detail. Not much different from OS X. The so call Big , medium, and small icon view is nothing compare to OS X's pixel level scale icon views, from 16 up to 128 from the OS X finder...



    Vista's Windows now give you the path on the top bar and you can access each point of the path right at the point, I find it a good idea (at least the intention is a good one). But it's not superior to OS X yet, in OS X you can always cmd-click on "any" window's name and you already know where you are and go anywhere you want from that pont, and this even goes to application level! And remind you that: this powerful navigation is already in Mac prior to OS X, it's there since OS 9! You can even drag the file icon in that window top and bring it anywhere you can see without even go through the finder file navigation! Now this is superior.



    Cut and paste file is just one of the way OS X use to move files, spring load folder is always there since OS 9 too... nothing new from a Mac user point of view. I can understand why it's good to have a vertical file management system in Windows, but I still not sure the usefulness when a system is so complicate, where do you think you should drag your file to if you cannot even see it? the little folder might buried in 5 levels deep from your vertical bar that is below the height of your opened window... so you drag... and then hold... think... goes up and down that bar with your mouse down holding the file... and then guess.. hunt.. just to find that directory ... well... you know...



    that means... cut and paste make more sense... spring-load.. no way...



    Anyhow... I still think Vista is a better breed of Windows, it still the same old Windows, the problem is still the problem, MS still bad at interface design. Aero adn glass looks good, but if you discount OS X's 6 years old Aqua interface, then same goes to this new Glass from Vista. Vista also run pretty snappy although it does require fast machine to run well.



    Sigh... when you say the new IE is better... I really cannot agree... IE 7 is one of the app in Vista I think it's stupid in design. They hide the toolbar by default, from the top have 3 row's of icon base bars that do various web functions and search (more or less it's for their Window Live service), then all you left to use for your IE function is the back and forward button!!! MS's explanation is they streamline the functions of IE so it's easier to use... just whole bunch of bull... when you find yourself need all the functions on the toolbar, you end up activate it, and your got 4 rows of buttons right above your browser!!! Talk about chaos, inefficiency and lost of screen real estate!!!



    I can go on and on.. and I realy don't know where to stop...
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