As I have mentioned a number of times on this forum, unless you have some application that will take advantage of the 8-cores or 4-cores for that matter, don't get all excited and expect a huge performance boost.
Example:
PS3 running in the Intel native mode on dual 3.0 xeon (4-cores) with 8 gigs of ram
Resize 1.3 gig image cymk image CPU usage 20%
Rotate same image 2 degrees - CPU usage 7% (took about 6 minutes)
In either case PS3 never used more than 1.8 gigs of the available ram
Unless there is going to be some huge difference between PS3 beta and the final release, I don't see any real advantage to 8-cores, least not for Photoshop. Maybe Leopard will help some.
I still maintain you are wrong. Suppose an application is only designed to handle four cores. In that case it the processor will send its instructions to those two cores. Now, while that program is executing (maybe rendering something in 3d or rendering a video file) you still have all those other cores available for instructions sent by other programs. Hence, huge performance boost for using other programs.
Yep, that pretty well is the most stupid thing ever written.
Well, duh, I guess I was too subtle.
My point was that we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except the iPhone (and the AirPort Extreme), as well as the iPod mini shrink, and the Macbook a year ago. I understad that it takes a while to perfect a design, but it's looking more and more like they can't work on things in parallel.
Here's to hoping for some interesting new designs before July!
Does anyone know what size the PS is, in the mac pro?
Supposedly, it's 1kW. The standard model (2.66/1GB/ATI) doesn't take a quarter of that at max CPU. At max CPU, I think it draws 250W from the wall, PSU output is probably just a touch over 200W at that point. There's plenty of headroom. It's not a machine I keep under my desk during the summer, right now, it's on a high shelf. During the winter, I move it below my desk.
Each CPU shares cache between it's cores, I was under the impression that os x actually assigns the thread to one of the 2 cores on the same cpu it was previously on. This wouldn't thrash the cache at all if this is 100% the case. As I said, under the impression... I can't back that up.
My problem is that that is not what I've seen on my quad. Sure, a dual core chip shares cache between the cores, but that's just not true for the quads.
You can have illustrator using 2 cores, PS using 4 cores, finder / web browser / etc using the other 2 cores. You can now multitask between applications without your computer being slowed down by the other processes.
Fortunately that is not how it works. All applications should use all cores at all times.
If an application is being a hog then it shows up in the activity window as "Nice" which really should be "Not Nice" because it indicates that the programmer decided to ignore sharing the cpu. iDVD is a perfect example of an application which hogs the CPU with a high "Nice%" yet it still cannot use any more than 40%.
My problem is that that is not what I've seen on my quad. Sure, a dual core chip shares cache between the cores, but that's just not true for the quads.
Since Apple has made the choice to limit the upgradable line to the Mac Pro, and give card manufacturers no incentive to make cards for us, then it's also Apple's responsibibity to have a fairly broad line, and keep it up to date, even if it costs them money to do so.
Presumably Apple is waiting for nVidia to get their drivers sorted out before making their announcement!
My point was that we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except the iPhone (and the AirPort Extreme), as well as the iPod mini shrink, and the Macbook a year ago. I understad that it takes a while to perfect a design, but it's looking more and more like they can't work on things in parallel.
Here's to hoping for some interesting new designs before July!
It's amazing how people seem to expect a new form factor every 3 to 6 months now. Apple has NEVER changed form factors at that rate, not on a singular product, which is why the other part of your post makes this a funny position for you to take.
"...we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except..."
As soon as you say "except" the general relevance of your previous statement loses most of its import unless you prefaced the comment somehow. Every product in the Apple line up has a cycle to its development and form factor design... call them iterations.
And, tower design is always the longest of them all as there isn't a tremendous amount ot be changed when you are buidling to accomodate raw power and expandability. The current iteration of the Mac Pro tower is only a little over a year old internally and two years externally (as the case is carried over from the last G5 configuration).
The next large form factor redesign is most likely the monitor line-up, particularly when we consider the price cuts implemented today. Shortly after that, I would speculate that there will be a new design for the Video iPod, probably at or soon after the release of the iPhone. I would also expect to see redesigns of the current server line-up around the Developer's conference in June and some form of special event in the last quarter of the year for newly redesigned iMacs.
But, that's just my best guess based on all the relevant information I have at my disposal.
Now, while that program is executing (maybe rendering something in 3d or rendering a video file) you still have all those other cores available for instructions sent by other programs. Hence, huge performance boost for using other programs.
When I work with BIG files, be they PS or FCP, I usually want the task at hand to be completed as quickly as possible. I guess I'm not the kind of user that starts rendering a movie and then goes out surfing the web while it works in the background. That's why I have a V8 in my SUV. If I'm towing a boat, I'm not concerned with fuel economy.
I take any program where it is known that only one thread does the heavy work. Run it on a single, dual and four core system and its CPU utilization for each will be 100%, 50% and 25%, respectively. I just read it off on the per-core readout in Activity Monitor, so it's not exact, but usually good enough to show it within 5-10%. If the OS kept tasks to a core pair, then you would probably see two cores with 50% and two at close to 0%.
I take any program where it is known that only one thread does the heavy work. Run it on a single, dual and four core system and its CPU utilization for each will be 100%, 50% and 25%, respectively. I just read it off on the per-core readout in Activity Monitor, so it's not exact, but usually good enough to show it within 5-10%. If the OS kept tasks to a core pair, then you would probably see two cores with 50% and two at close to 0%.
And who knows how Leopard is planning to handle 8 cores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai1999
Presumably Apple is waiting for nVidia to get their drivers sorted out before making their announcement!
The next large form factor redesign is most likely the monitor line-up, particularly when we consider the price cuts implemented today. Shortly after that, I would speculate that there will be a new design for the Video iPod, probably at or soon after the release of the iPhone. I would also expect to see redesigns of the current server line-up around the Developer's conference in June and some form of special event in the last quarter of the year for newly redesigned iMacs.
But, that's just my best guess based on all the relevant information I have at my disposal.
3-6 months? The iPod is well over 1 1/2 year, the MacPro enclosure is almost four (though it has gone through a significant redesign inside), the Macbook Pro enclosure is more than four, with some subtle changes, the iMac is almost a year and a half, if you count the iSight revision as new and so on.
The Xserves are even older, and I don't expect any radical aestethical departure in that area.
I'm just wondering what they are doing. They seem to be hoarding new designs for post leopard computers and accessories, from what we've been hearing.
I'm not at all dissatisfied with what we have, but I believe Apple has a pretty effective design team, so I just want to know how they work.
Game cards don't beat pro cards in pro 3D work, just as pro cards don't beat game cards in games.
The software on the cards is different in just enough ways as to ensure that the cards do best in the markets they are sold in. You can't look at raw specs. That's never worked.
Just like your dual-superturbo Mustang GT isn't going to beat my Lamborghini Diablo on a windy road.
Heh, Haven't you been close for 2 years? You do realize that your Alienware is now Dell
Why not just build your own box? Take some pride in customization. It's funner, get quality parts, cheaper, etc.
No my Alienware is still pretty decent. They say you should upgrade your computer if the speed has been doubled. Do cores count as doubling speeds? I went with benchmarks, and my speed had not been doubled two years ago.
Comments
i cannot find Xeon 3.0 Ghz Quad Core here, am i missing something here?
120W per CPU, Mc Pro one hot cake
As I have mentioned a number of times on this forum, unless you have some application that will take advantage of the 8-cores or 4-cores for that matter, don't get all excited and expect a huge performance boost.
Example:
PS3 running in the Intel native mode on dual 3.0 xeon (4-cores) with 8 gigs of ram
Resize 1.3 gig image cymk image CPU usage 20%
Rotate same image 2 degrees - CPU usage 7% (took about 6 minutes)
In either case PS3 never used more than 1.8 gigs of the available ram
Unless there is going to be some huge difference between PS3 beta and the final release, I don't see any real advantage to 8-cores, least not for Photoshop. Maybe Leopard will help some.
I still maintain you are wrong. Suppose an application is only designed to handle four cores. In that case it the processor will send its instructions to those two cores. Now, while that program is executing (maybe rendering something in 3d or rendering a video file) you still have all those other cores available for instructions sent by other programs. Hence, huge performance boost for using other programs.
http://www.intel.com/products/proces...chart/xeon.htm
i cannot find Xeon 3.0 Ghz Quad Core here, am i missing something here?
120W per CPU, Mc Pro one hot cake
Does anyone know what size the PS is, in the mac pro?
Yep, that pretty well is the most stupid thing ever written.
Well, duh, I guess I was too subtle.
My point was that we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except the iPhone (and the AirPort Extreme), as well as the iPod mini shrink, and the Macbook a year ago. I understad that it takes a while to perfect a design, but it's looking more and more like they can't work on things in parallel.
Here's to hoping for some interesting new designs before July!
Does anyone know what size the PS is, in the mac pro?
Supposedly, it's 1kW. The standard model (2.66/1GB/ATI) doesn't take a quarter of that at max CPU. At max CPU, I think it draws 250W from the wall, PSU output is probably just a touch over 200W at that point. There's plenty of headroom. It's not a machine I keep under my desk during the summer, right now, it's on a high shelf. During the winter, I move it below my desk.
Each CPU shares cache between it's cores, I was under the impression that os x actually assigns the thread to one of the 2 cores on the same cpu it was previously on. This wouldn't thrash the cache at all if this is 100% the case. As I said, under the impression... I can't back that up.
My problem is that that is not what I've seen on my quad. Sure, a dual core chip shares cache between the cores, but that's just not true for the quads.
You can have illustrator using 2 cores, PS using 4 cores, finder / web browser / etc using the other 2 cores. You can now multitask between applications without your computer being slowed down by the other processes.
Fortunately that is not how it works. All applications should use all cores at all times.
If an application is being a hog then it shows up in the activity window as "Nice" which really should be "Not Nice" because it indicates that the programmer decided to ignore sharing the cpu. iDVD is a perfect example of an application which hogs the CPU with a high "Nice%" yet it still cannot use any more than 40%.
My problem is that that is not what I've seen on my quad. Sure, a dual core chip shares cache between the cores, but that's just not true for the quads.
How are you testing this?
Since Apple has made the choice to limit the upgradable line to the Mac Pro, and give card manufacturers no incentive to make cards for us, then it's also Apple's responsibibity to have a fairly broad line, and keep it up to date, even if it costs them money to do so.
Presumably Apple is waiting for nVidia to get their drivers sorted out before making their announcement!
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/periphera...ted-241478.php
We'll just have to wait and see what NAB brings forth!
Well, duh, I guess I was too subtle.
My point was that we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except the iPhone (and the AirPort Extreme), as well as the iPod mini shrink, and the Macbook a year ago. I understad that it takes a while to perfect a design, but it's looking more and more like they can't work on things in parallel.
Here's to hoping for some interesting new designs before July!
It's amazing how people seem to expect a new form factor every 3 to 6 months now. Apple has NEVER changed form factors at that rate, not on a singular product, which is why the other part of your post makes this a funny position for you to take.
"...we haven't seen anything much in the ways of new design lately, except..."
As soon as you say "except" the general relevance of your previous statement loses most of its import unless you prefaced the comment somehow. Every product in the Apple line up has a cycle to its development and form factor design... call them iterations.
And, tower design is always the longest of them all as there isn't a tremendous amount ot be changed when you are buidling to accomodate raw power and expandability. The current iteration of the Mac Pro tower is only a little over a year old internally and two years externally (as the case is carried over from the last G5 configuration).
The next large form factor redesign is most likely the monitor line-up, particularly when we consider the price cuts implemented today. Shortly after that, I would speculate that there will be a new design for the Video iPod, probably at or soon after the release of the iPhone. I would also expect to see redesigns of the current server line-up around the Developer's conference in June and some form of special event in the last quarter of the year for newly redesigned iMacs.
But, that's just my best guess based on all the relevant information I have at my disposal.
Now, while that program is executing (maybe rendering something in 3d or rendering a video file) you still have all those other cores available for instructions sent by other programs. Hence, huge performance boost for using other programs.
When I work with BIG files, be they PS or FCP, I usually want the task at hand to be completed as quickly as possible. I guess I'm not the kind of user that starts rendering a movie and then goes out surfing the web while it works in the background. That's why I have a V8 in my SUV. If I'm towing a boat, I'm not concerned with fuel economy.
http://www.intel.com/products/proces...chart/xeon.htm
i cannot find Xeon 3.0 Ghz Quad Core here, am i missing something here?
120W per CPU, Mc Pro one hot cake
Intel hasn't announced the Xeon 3.0 Ghz Quad Core yet.
- but apparently it takes 150W
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38724
Also, it's impressive that the FSB is running at 1333MHz
- i.e. they haven't had to drop it to 1066MHz when they went Quad Core.
How are you testing this?
I take any program where it is known that only one thread does the heavy work. Run it on a single, dual and four core system and its CPU utilization for each will be 100%, 50% and 25%, respectively. I just read it off on the per-core readout in Activity Monitor, so it's not exact, but usually good enough to show it within 5-10%. If the OS kept tasks to a core pair, then you would probably see two cores with 50% and two at close to 0%.
I take any program where it is known that only one thread does the heavy work. Run it on a single, dual and four core system and its CPU utilization for each will be 100%, 50% and 25%, respectively. I just read it off on the per-core readout in Activity Monitor, so it's not exact, but usually good enough to show it within 5-10%. If the OS kept tasks to a core pair, then you would probably see two cores with 50% and two at close to 0%.
And who knows how Leopard is planning to handle 8 cores.
Presumably Apple is waiting for nVidia to get their drivers sorted out before making their announcement!
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/periphera...ted-241478.php
We'll just have to wait and see what NAB brings forth!
Awesome news. That just about confirms Apple's intentions for NAB. I was pretty close to ordering a BOXX, or another Alenware. Thanks for sharing.
The next large form factor redesign is most likely the monitor line-up, particularly when we consider the price cuts implemented today. Shortly after that, I would speculate that there will be a new design for the Video iPod, probably at or soon after the release of the iPhone. I would also expect to see redesigns of the current server line-up around the Developer's conference in June and some form of special event in the last quarter of the year for newly redesigned iMacs.
But, that's just my best guess based on all the relevant information I have at my disposal.
3-6 months? The iPod is well over 1 1/2 year, the MacPro enclosure is almost four (though it has gone through a significant redesign inside), the Macbook Pro enclosure is more than four, with some subtle changes, the iMac is almost a year and a half, if you count the iSight revision as new and so on.
The Xserves are even older, and I don't expect any radical aestethical departure in that area.
I'm just wondering what they are doing. They seem to be hoarding new designs for post leopard computers and accessories, from what we've been hearing.
I'm not at all dissatisfied with what we have, but I believe Apple has a pretty effective design team, so I just want to know how they work.
They have to have a 23" and 30" with HDMI, Component Video, iSight, Microphone, USB and Firewire in it with VESA mount support for us Apple TV guys.
Video conferencing in the living room.
Game cards don't beat pro cards in pro 3D work, just as pro cards don't beat game cards in games.
The software on the cards is different in just enough ways as to ensure that the cards do best in the markets they are sold in. You can't look at raw specs. That's never worked.
Just like your dual-superturbo Mustang GT isn't going to beat my Lamborghini Diablo on a windy road.
Ok, well I don't have one.... Yet.
Awesome news. That just about confirms Apple's intentions for NAB. I was pretty close to ordering a BOXX, or another Alenware. Thanks for sharing.
Heh, Haven't you been close for 2 years? You do realize that your Alienware is now Dell
Why not just build your own box? Take some pride in customization. It's funner, get quality parts, cheaper, etc.
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Two 3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
So you can have Two Dual-Core Intel Xeons, and Two Quad-Core Intel Xeons. Why the hell can't you have One Quad-Core?
Sebastian
Heh, Haven't you been close for 2 years? You do realize that your Alienware is now Dell
Why not just build your own box? Take some pride in customization. It's funner, get quality parts, cheaper, etc.
No my Alienware is still pretty decent. They say you should upgrade your computer if the speed has been doubled. Do cores count as doubling speeds? I went with benchmarks, and my speed had not been doubled two years ago.