It's not as simple as that. Two separate dual core is better than a single dual-dual in some cases because each socket has its own independent bus, offering a lot less opportunities for contention, four cores per FSB, or two cores per FSB. The difference isn't earth shattering, but for many uses, there is a difference.
Other makers allow you to spec out their workstations with only one chip though, so you could just buy one dual-dual core chip and leave the other socket unused, and you can populate the second socket at some other time. One problem with that is that the price of some competing workstations is such that you can get both sockets populated in the Mac Pro for the same price for similar spec chips, just fewer chip choices.
There's probably not much difference in power efficiency because the dies are mostly the same difference, a quad core Clovertown has two Woodcrests stitched together into the same package rather than one each in two separate packages.
Sadly you have a point, until it comes time to divvy up the RAM. Then those Dual Dual Cores seem to be a little less flexible then that.
Further, the only reason there is a second Front Side Bus is because there is another chip. Considering it's the Front Side Buses job to transfer information between the CPU and other pieces of the motherboard, that's irrelevant because the only thing those 2 Front Side Buses are doing is transfering information between 2 different chips and the rest of the Motherboard, and that means those 2 Front Side Buses probably have to transfer information between those 2 CPUs meaning less is being communicated between the CPUs, and the rest of the board.
I think I like the idea of Fewer Chips and more flexibility between the chips that are there.
Sadly you have a point, until it comes time to divvy up the RAM. Then those Dual Dual Cores seem to be a little less flexible then that.
Further, the only reason there is a second Front Side Bus is because there is another chip. Considering it's the Front Side Buses job to transfer information between the CPU and other pieces of the motherboard, that's irrelevant because the only thing those 2 Front Side Buses are doing is transfering information between 2 different chips and the rest of the Motherboard, and that means those 2 Front Side Buses probably have to transfer information between those 2 CPUs meaning less is being communicated between the CPUs, and the rest of the board.
There's more to it than the memory though. The memory system can be a little faster than the FSB, and then there's still the other IO, like the drives and video, I think there's still a speed advantage to having it be two separate chips. I don't think the CPUs need to communicate with each other that much.
I was hopeing for 32gb or ram, i know its completly not practicle or needed. Most other computers max out ram at something like 4gb at higher speeds so to have 16gb or ram is rather crazy and to have 32 gb of ram would be unbeleiveable.
The only resonable thing i wanted was a 5600 in there. Everyone esle seems to want a 8800 but so what, it is not the fastest card for 3d aplications and if your a gammer, you probably dont use a mac. I do think the ATI 2800 would be nice, i dont even think its out yet, since it is more powerful than the 8800 and maybe would lure some gamers to buy a mac even if they run windows.
I was hopeing for 32gb or ram, i know its completly not practicle or needed. Most other computers max out ram at something like 4gb at higher speeds so to have 16gb or ram is rather crazy and to have 32 gb of ram would be unbeleiveable.
The only resonable thing i wanted was a 5600 in there. Everyone esle seems to want a 8800 but so what, it is not the fastest card for 3d aplications and if your a gammer, you probably dont use a mac. I do think the ATI 2800 would be nice, i dont even think its out yet, since it is more powerful than the 8800 and maybe would lure some gamers to buy a mac even if they run windows.
I want to see the Nvidia 128 core card in there. If it's price isn't totally rediculous I'm getting it. If not the 5600 will have to do.
So here goes... I just ordered an Asus P5W Deluxe motherboard for my hackintosh.... Gonna team that up with a e6700. I have been frequenting the insanelymac.com forums today. You wouldn't believe how many of those guys have gone that route because apple won't. For all of those nay sayers that a prosumer mac wouldn't sell. There are hundreds of these guys who went through the pain and suffering of building their own because apple doesn't offer such a computer. People say that this prosumer mac would cannibalize iMac sales... apple isn't even selling computers to these guys. I'm jumping on board with them. I'm tired of waiting on apple to make a reasonable computer for my needs.
So here goes... I just ordered an Asus P5W Deluxe motherboard for my hackintosh.... Gonna team that up with a e6700. I have been frequenting the insanelymac.com forums today. You wouldn't believe how many of those guys have gone that route because apple won't. For all of those nay sayers that a prosumer mac wouldn't sell. There are hundreds of these guys who went through the pain and suffering of building their own because apple doesn't offer such a computer. People say that this prosumer mac would cannibalize iMac sales... apple isn't even selling computers to these guys. I'm jumping on board with them. I'm tired of waiting on apple to make a reasonable computer for my needs.
As you say-"hundreds". Hundreds do not make a market. Hundreds of thousands begin to.
While I would like to see one myself, Apple must think there is a good reason for not having one.
Compared to most folks, you guys aren't reasonable. You're driven. There isn't anything wrong with that, but most people don't care enough.
I think the market for xMac is larger than we think. The options simply aren't good.
Low end -
Mac mini- integrated graphics, small and cute but capable. Dual monitor challenged.
Midrange-
iMac. Nice integration, discrete graphics, dual mon capable, not upgradable
High end-
Mac Pro- extendable, powerful, expensive,
Apple simply has nothing for a computer enthusiast that fits. I love the iMac and I'd love to own one but it's a laptop on a stick. I'm a bit frustrated that it's abundantly clear that the GPU is taking on an increasingly important role in processing once Leopard hits. Where is Apple weak? The GPU ....the irony.
Why not give us an option that hovers in the $1000 to 1500 range that at least gives us the ability to upgrade the GPU since they aren't just about games anymore.
Apple consumers have made the company healthy and wealthy. Throw us a freakin bone here.
I think the market for xMac is larger than we think. The options simply aren't good.
...
Apple simply has nothing for a computer enthusiast that fits.
This is a gory market in which Apple is very reluctant to compete. The Cube experience left such a sore taste. \
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
I'm a bit frustrated that it's abundantly clear that the GPU is taking on an increasingly important role in processing once Leopard hits. Where is Apple weak? The GPU ....the irony.
The next integrated graphics generation is supposed to be much better that the current one. Not to the level of other solutions, but we will see.
This is a gory market in which Apple is very reluctant to compete. The Cube experience left such a sore taste. \
The next integrated graphics generation is supposed to be much better that the current one. Not to the level of other solutions, but we will see.
The proposed Intel price cuts in April and July on Conroe and Woodcrest are a perfect opportunity to create an extensible Mac at $1499 tops. A 2.66Ghz Conroe chip will be $180. Hell you can ship the base unit with X3000 graphics if you want and let others BTO or add the GPU they need later but dammit man give me a chance build a capable Mac system that doesn't cost me my firstborn.
The iMacs will continue to sell. Many people like the built in screen and easy setup. What I'd love to see is a simple squat box with one optical drive, 4 dimm sockets, 2 drive bays and a 16x and 4x PCI Express bus. Should be easy to accomplish.
Clearly not considering he used that piece of information inside of another joke.. it screwed up the joke because he did that. If it was sarcasm he's obviously not accustomed to humor.
Important info missing for those who just don't appreciaate the chicken and egg adage.
"The 8-core Mac Pro gives pro software developers a platform to prepare new versions of their applications for the future, when 8-core technology is more prevalent on the desktop," an Apple spokesperson told Macworld.
The proposed Intel price cuts in April and July on Conroe and Woodcrest are a perfect opportunity to create an extensible Mac at $1499 tops. A 2.66Ghz Conroe chip will be $180. Hell you can ship the base unit with X3000 graphics if you want and let others BTO or add the GPU they need later but dammit man give me a chance build a capable Mac system that doesn't cost me my firstborn.
The iMacs will continue to sell. Many people like the built in screen and easy setup. What I'd love to see is a simple squat box with one optical drive, 4 dimm sockets, 2 drive bays and a 16x and 4x PCI Express bus. Should be easy to accomplish.
It's been a perfect opportunity for years, or so we like to think, but Apple doesn't agree.
When the G5 tower first came out, some here might remember, I proposed an idea for a $999 model, that even my friends in Apple engineering thought was a good one, but told me would never happen.
Clearly not considering he used that piece of information inside of another joke.. it screwed up the joke because he did that. If it was sarcasm he's obviously not accustomed to humor.
Seeing as you were the one that thought he was ferrealz, and everyone else got the joke, maybe it's *your* sarcasm...dar that needs to be re-tuned.
Seeing as you were the one that thought he was ferrealz, and everyone else got the joke, maybe it's *your* sarcasm...dar that needs to be re-tuned.
Lose the ego sir, I'm sure you can tell when everyone else thought it was a joke especially when nobody even commented on it.Keep replying to prove how ignorant and egocentric you are.
Comments
It's not as simple as that. Two separate dual core is better than a single dual-dual in some cases because each socket has its own independent bus, offering a lot less opportunities for contention, four cores per FSB, or two cores per FSB. The difference isn't earth shattering, but for many uses, there is a difference.
Other makers allow you to spec out their workstations with only one chip though, so you could just buy one dual-dual core chip and leave the other socket unused, and you can populate the second socket at some other time. One problem with that is that the price of some competing workstations is such that you can get both sockets populated in the Mac Pro for the same price for similar spec chips, just fewer chip choices.
There's probably not much difference in power efficiency because the dies are mostly the same difference, a quad core Clovertown has two Woodcrests stitched together into the same package rather than one each in two separate packages.
Sadly you have a point, until it comes time to divvy up the RAM. Then those Dual Dual Cores seem to be a little less flexible then that.
Further, the only reason there is a second Front Side Bus is because there is another chip. Considering it's the Front Side Buses job to transfer information between the CPU and other pieces of the motherboard, that's irrelevant because the only thing those 2 Front Side Buses are doing is transfering information between 2 different chips and the rest of the Motherboard, and that means those 2 Front Side Buses probably have to transfer information between those 2 CPUs meaning less is being communicated between the CPUs, and the rest of the board.
I think I like the idea of Fewer Chips and more flexibility between the chips that are there.
Sebastian
Sadly you have a point, until it comes time to divvy up the RAM. Then those Dual Dual Cores seem to be a little less flexible then that.
Further, the only reason there is a second Front Side Bus is because there is another chip. Considering it's the Front Side Buses job to transfer information between the CPU and other pieces of the motherboard, that's irrelevant because the only thing those 2 Front Side Buses are doing is transfering information between 2 different chips and the rest of the Motherboard, and that means those 2 Front Side Buses probably have to transfer information between those 2 CPUs meaning less is being communicated between the CPUs, and the rest of the board.
There's more to it than the memory though. The memory system can be a little faster than the FSB, and then there's still the other IO, like the drives and video, I think there's still a speed advantage to having it be two separate chips. I don't think the CPUs need to communicate with each other that much.
Actually...
10.2 - Jaguar
10.3 - Panther
10.4 - Tiger
10.5 - Leopard
Panther was after Jaguar, easy mistake
He was being sarcastic.
He was being sarcastic.
But we don't know that cause he didn't use tildes (~)
The only resonable thing i wanted was a 5600 in there. Everyone esle seems to want a 8800 but so what, it is not the fastest card for 3d aplications and if your a gammer, you probably dont use a mac. I do think the ATI 2800 would be nice, i dont even think its out yet, since it is more powerful than the 8800 and maybe would lure some gamers to buy a mac even if they run windows.
I was hopeing for 32gb or ram, i know its completly not practicle or needed. Most other computers max out ram at something like 4gb at higher speeds so to have 16gb or ram is rather crazy and to have 32 gb of ram would be unbeleiveable.
The only resonable thing i wanted was a 5600 in there. Everyone esle seems to want a 8800 but so what, it is not the fastest card for 3d aplications and if your a gammer, you probably dont use a mac. I do think the ATI 2800 would be nice, i dont even think its out yet, since it is more powerful than the 8800 and maybe would lure some gamers to buy a mac even if they run windows.
I want to see the Nvidia 128 core card in there. If it's price isn't totally rediculous I'm getting it. If not the 5600 will have to do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But we don't know that cause he didn't use tildes (~)
Well, so much for the "Apple Tuesdays".
The combo "Tuesday+Wednesday" is the new Apple Tuesday.
So here goes... I just ordered an Asus P5W Deluxe motherboard for my hackintosh.... Gonna team that up with a e6700. I have been frequenting the insanelymac.com forums today. You wouldn't believe how many of those guys have gone that route because apple won't. For all of those nay sayers that a prosumer mac wouldn't sell. There are hundreds of these guys who went through the pain and suffering of building their own because apple doesn't offer such a computer. People say that this prosumer mac would cannibalize iMac sales... apple isn't even selling computers to these guys. I'm jumping on board with them. I'm tired of waiting on apple to make a reasonable computer for my needs.
As you say-"hundreds". Hundreds do not make a market. Hundreds of thousands begin to.
While I would like to see one myself, Apple must think there is a good reason for not having one.
Compared to most folks, you guys aren't reasonable. You're driven. There isn't anything wrong with that, but most people don't care enough.
I think the market for xMac is larger than we think. The options simply aren't good.
Low end -
Mac mini- integrated graphics, small and cute but capable. Dual monitor challenged.
Midrange-
iMac. Nice integration, discrete graphics, dual mon capable, not upgradable
High end-
Mac Pro- extendable, powerful, expensive,
Apple simply has nothing for a computer enthusiast that fits. I love the iMac and I'd love to own one but it's a laptop on a stick. I'm a bit frustrated that it's abundantly clear that the GPU is taking on an increasingly important role in processing once Leopard hits. Where is Apple weak? The GPU ....the irony.
Why not give us an option that hovers in the $1000 to 1500 range that at least gives us the ability to upgrade the GPU since they aren't just about games anymore.
Apple consumers have made the company healthy and wealthy. Throw us a freakin bone here.
I have to agree with emig647
I think the market for xMac is larger than we think. The options simply aren't good.
...
Apple simply has nothing for a computer enthusiast that fits.
This is a gory market in which Apple is very reluctant to compete. The Cube experience left such a sore taste.
I'm a bit frustrated that it's abundantly clear that the GPU is taking on an increasingly important role in processing once Leopard hits. Where is Apple weak? The GPU ....the irony.
The next integrated graphics generation is supposed to be much better that the current one. Not to the level of other solutions, but we will see.
This is a gory market in which Apple is very reluctant to compete. The Cube experience left such a sore taste.
The next integrated graphics generation is supposed to be much better that the current one. Not to the level of other solutions, but we will see.
The proposed Intel price cuts in April and July on Conroe and Woodcrest are a perfect opportunity to create an extensible Mac at $1499 tops. A 2.66Ghz Conroe chip will be $180. Hell you can ship the base unit with X3000 graphics if you want and let others BTO or add the GPU they need later but dammit man give me a chance build a capable Mac system that doesn't cost me my firstborn.
The iMacs will continue to sell. Many people like the built in screen and easy setup. What I'd love to see is a simple squat box with one optical drive, 4 dimm sockets, 2 drive bays and a 16x and 4x PCI Express bus. Should be easy to accomplish.
He was being sarcastic.
Clearly not considering he used that piece of information inside of another joke.. it screwed up the joke because he did that. If it was sarcasm he's obviously not accustomed to humor.
Great new addition.
Important info missing for those who just don't appreciaate the chicken and egg adage.
"The 8-core Mac Pro gives pro software developers a platform to prepare new versions of their applications for the future, when 8-core technology is more prevalent on the desktop," an Apple spokesperson told Macworld.
The proposed Intel price cuts in April and July on Conroe and Woodcrest are a perfect opportunity to create an extensible Mac at $1499 tops. A 2.66Ghz Conroe chip will be $180. Hell you can ship the base unit with X3000 graphics if you want and let others BTO or add the GPU they need later but dammit man give me a chance build a capable Mac system that doesn't cost me my firstborn.
The iMacs will continue to sell. Many people like the built in screen and easy setup. What I'd love to see is a simple squat box with one optical drive, 4 dimm sockets, 2 drive bays and a 16x and 4x PCI Express bus. Should be easy to accomplish.
It's been a perfect opportunity for years, or so we like to think, but Apple doesn't agree.
When the G5 tower first came out, some here might remember, I proposed an idea for a $999 model, that even my friends in Apple engineering thought was a good one, but told me would never happen.
So far, they've been right.
Clearly not considering he used that piece of information inside of another joke.. it screwed up the joke because he did that. If it was sarcasm he's obviously not accustomed to humor.
Seeing as you were the one that thought he was ferrealz, and everyone else got the joke, maybe it's *your* sarcasm...dar that needs to be re-tuned.
Seeing as you were the one that thought he was ferrealz, and everyone else got the joke, maybe it's *your* sarcasm...dar that needs to be re-tuned.
Lose the ego sir, I'm sure you can tell when everyone else thought it was a joke especially when nobody even commented on it.Keep replying to prove how ignorant and egocentric you are.