Safari roolz and rox: but specifically it ownz, rendering (as it does) like a thoroughbread, scrolling like a beast, accessing cache like a slippery eel.
I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.
Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.
1) It's thoroughbred not bread. It's a horse, not a loaf. Or rather a browser-horse, not a browser-loaf.
2) "Snapback" is designed to do away with the need for tabbed browsing ... typically I use one tab as home base and have lots of sprogs off it. With such a fast refresh from cache you don't need to this. Apple like single-window models. A lot.
[quote]Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah:
<strong>Safari roolz and rox: but specifically it ownz, rendering (as it does) like a thoroughbread, scrolling like a beast, accessing cache like a slippery eel.
I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.
Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.
<strong>Turn on HTTP Pipelining in Chimera, and it will screech way past Safari, loading at least twice as fast in many instances.</strong><hr></blockquote>
To paraphrase Mike Pinkerton (led dev on Chimera), there is a reason that pipelining is not on by default - it's buggy/unsupported.
Also, if it weren't buggy/unsupported, Apple would turn it on in Safari and it would increase in speed at least as much as, if not more than, Chimera.
Quick note to tab-lovers: stop trying to ruin the interface of my new browser.
Why not bug Apple to turn iPhoto into Photoshop or Mail into Outlook instead?
Keep It Simple, Steve!
btw has anyone noticed that (tabs apart) nearly every complaint--of a beta release!--has been total fiction.
my suggested cheesiness to it, a la Mac OS X's "genie effect," is to make the pages "turn" just like an old-fashioned book when you click on links. and when you use the snap back feature, it flip-flip-flips back to the beginning of the site. this would, of course, be a feature that could be toggled on and off, or modified with different wipe effects (which is really all it is, like maybe a rollup effect, etc.) total eye candy, but why not?
<strong>Why not make a Windows version and reheat the browser war?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i think the ONLY reason apple doesn't want to do it is that they do not want to have to field a million questions of why the browser doesn't work under windows xp home, or professional, or 2000, or NT, on a processor bought from one place, hard drive bought from another, in a custom case, etc., etc.
in other words, apple can support it, because they control everything.
don't get me wrong -- i think apple could make microsoft VERY nervous by releasing a browser for windows, but they'd need bigger guns *cough* AOL *cough*
Okay, I found a UI bug, and I'm eager to tell Apple all about it. But it doesn't have to do with any specific website, so how do I submit it?
Here's the bug: If you click on a pulldown menu in your bookmark bar, and then double click on another bookmark (once to close it, and again to choose the link), instead of going to the bookmark, it brings down the previous menu again. Understand?
So, now how do I gleefully run to Apple telling them that I found a UI bug?
Edit: Just double click anywhere, and the menu re-appears . . . it doesn't just need to be another bookmark bar link.
[quote] It needs IE's autofill and Chimera's Keychain access. <hr></blockquote>
How cool, it stole IE's autofill too. I was definitely weirded out for a second when I typed V and versiontracker came up.
Keychain: KidRed you say it's there. Well how nice that is secretly stores our passwords in our Keychain, but it'd be nice to have it ASK first, with a neat-o little sheet like Chimera.
TABS. If you don't like them you haven't used them. It's like OS X. I used to hate it, then I used it. They are faster than switching windows, and you can see them all at the same time, instead going to a window menu or flipping through many windows. I have a lot of windows open at the same time, because I command-click the links on Macsurfer and Versiontracker to open tabs in the background. I'm on a modem in Vermont, so it connects at 26400, and I have to pick what I want to read first, so by the time I'm done scanning the news, some of the tabs are loaded and ready to read. Tabs will come, no doubt.
Why did Apple pick KHTML instead of Mozilla though? Mozilla seems to be picking up support from everywhere, there's a real bandwagon forming. I mean, AOL blessed, it has legs. What is better about KHTML?
I have found Safari to be faster than the latest Chimera nightly, which has pipelining, RAM cache, all those goodies in Chimichanga, on.
Brushed metal is retarded! I understood that it was supposed to reflect an app being an "appliance." For QT Player that makes sense. How is a browser an appliance? It looks uglier than Platinum. When I saw the Aqua Safari I soilded myself. I have to go to Unsanity now...
It needs to copy IE's AutoFill and all those other great features and prefs that Chimera et al still haven't copied. The only reason I don't use IE is because it's 5x slower than Safari or Chimera, but no other browser can touch it's array of features or prefs...yet. I have a feeling Safari will.
Wow I just got Metallifizer! All the iApps look MUCH better without stupid 'brushed metal.'
After using Safari for an evening, I'm very pleased with it. I can think of a few things it needs, mostly cribbed from the ultra-sleek OmniWeb, but it's close enough that I cheerfully threw every other browser out of my Dock.
I agree that having a way to load and browse multiple sites without multiple windows is nice. Opera for Windows spoiled me (MDI interface notwithstanding) back when Mozilla was barely getting off the ground.
But please, please, please not tabs. Using them that way is a violation of UI guidelines, they're awkward, and you can only load so many sites at once before things become unreadable, or arrows start appearing.
If Apple goes this way - and I'd like them to - they should go the whole hog. Allow sets of pages to be bookmarked, and labelled with a short name the way single pages can be renamed. Integrate that into the excellent bookmarks manager they have. That would be seriously cool. But, as with other things, I'd like Apple to really think through what the best UI is to present and manage collections of pages, rather than just blindly copying tabs from Mozilla because they're "good enough."
As for the metal look: It vanishes in relation to the size of the web page on my screen (which is "only" 10x7); it provides a clear contrast between the toolbar section and the document section, given the arbitrary appearances of most web sites; and the Aqua hack, frankly, looks terrible. You need to open the nib up in Interface Builder and get some clearance between the buttons and the title bar for it to look at all Mac-like, and then you've got the controls taking up that much more space. I'll admit that it's not as flat-out gorgeous as OmniWeb's interface is, but it's clear, compact, and attractive. I can appreciate that.
Comments
I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.
Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.
Now what about tabs?
1) It's thoroughbred not bread. It's a horse, not a loaf. Or rather a browser-horse, not a browser-loaf.
2) "Snapback" is designed to do away with the need for tabbed browsing ... typically I use one tab as home base and have lots of sprogs off it. With such a fast refresh from cache you don't need to this. Apple like single-window models. A lot.
[quote]Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah:
<strong>Safari roolz and rox: but specifically it ownz, rendering (as it does) like a thoroughbread, scrolling like a beast, accessing cache like a slippery eel.
I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.
Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.
Now what about tabs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think however Chimera will still do very well, because of its tabs. For the moment I will experiment with Safari and enjoy.... WOOOOOOOOOOSH!
It's a lot snappier for me as well. With Safari, there's a significant lag while it loads each image. Not so with Chimera.
I won't be switching.
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Utmost ]</p>
<strong>Turn on HTTP Pipelining in Chimera, and it will screech way past Safari, loading at least twice as fast in many instances.</strong><hr></blockquote>
To paraphrase Mike Pinkerton (led dev on Chimera), there is a reason that pipelining is not on by default - it's buggy/unsupported.
Also, if it weren't buggy/unsupported, Apple would turn it on in Safari and it would increase in speed at least as much as, if not more than, Chimera.
Quick note to tab-lovers: stop trying to ruin the interface of my new browser.
Why not bug Apple to turn iPhoto into Photoshop or Mail into Outlook instead?
Keep It Simple, Steve!
btw has anyone noticed that (tabs apart) nearly every complaint--of a beta release!--has been total fiction.
Why not make a Windows version and reheat the browser war?
Giving away the source is a start - but it is essentialy important that the look & feel is the same on every platform.
<strong>Why not make a Windows version and reheat the browser war?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i think the ONLY reason apple doesn't want to do it is that they do not want to have to field a million questions of why the browser doesn't work under windows xp home, or professional, or 2000, or NT, on a processor bought from one place, hard drive bought from another, in a custom case, etc., etc.
in other words, apple can support it, because they control everything.
don't get me wrong -- i think apple could make microsoft VERY nervous by releasing a browser for windows, but they'd need bigger guns *cough* AOL *cough*
Here's the bug: If you click on a pulldown menu in your bookmark bar, and then double click on another bookmark (once to close it, and again to choose the link), instead of going to the bookmark, it brings down the previous menu again. Understand?
So, now how do I gleefully run to Apple telling them that I found a UI bug?
Edit: Just double click anywhere, and the menu re-appears . . . it doesn't just need to be another bookmark bar link.
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: bauman ]</p>
How cool, it stole IE's autofill too. I was definitely weirded out for a second when I typed V and versiontracker came up.
Keychain: KidRed you say it's there. Well how nice that is secretly stores our passwords in our Keychain, but it'd be nice to have it ASK first, with a neat-o little sheet like Chimera.
TABS. If you don't like them you haven't used them. It's like OS X. I used to hate it, then I used it. They are faster than switching windows, and you can see them all at the same time, instead going to a window menu or flipping through many windows. I have a lot of windows open at the same time, because I command-click the links on Macsurfer and Versiontracker to open tabs in the background. I'm on a modem in Vermont, so it connects at 26400, and I have to pick what I want to read first, so by the time I'm done scanning the news, some of the tabs are loaded and ready to read. Tabs will come, no doubt.
Why did Apple pick KHTML instead of Mozilla though? Mozilla seems to be picking up support from everywhere, there's a real bandwagon forming. I mean, AOL blessed, it has legs. What is better about KHTML?
I have found Safari to be faster than the latest Chimera nightly, which has pipelining, RAM cache, all those goodies in Chimichanga, on.
Brushed metal is retarded! I understood that it was supposed to reflect an app being an "appliance." For QT Player that makes sense. How is a browser an appliance? It looks uglier than Platinum. When I saw the Aqua Safari I soilded myself. I have to go to Unsanity now...
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html"; target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html</a>;
I was trying to see where the MiniAluBook's S-Video was... is it on the back?
Damn I can't believe how slow IE is compared to Chimera or Safari.
<strong>
How cool, it stole IE's autofill too. I was definitely weirded out for a second when I typed V and versiontracker came up.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but that's not Autofill. Autofill's when your filling out a form or something and your information comes up.
It needs to copy IE's AutoFill and all those other great features and prefs that Chimera et al still haven't copied. The only reason I don't use IE is because it's 5x slower than Safari or Chimera, but no other browser can touch it's array of features or prefs...yet. I have a feeling Safari will.
Wow I just got Metallifizer! All the iApps look MUCH better without stupid 'brushed metal.'
edit: I was still calling autocomplete autofill.
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Aquatic ]</p>
<strong>Neither Safari nor the latest Chimera build worked here:
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html"; target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>What? That page loads fine in Safari and clicking images works fine too. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
I agree that having a way to load and browse multiple sites without multiple windows is nice. Opera for Windows spoiled me (MDI interface notwithstanding) back when Mozilla was barely getting off the ground.
But please, please, please not tabs. Using them that way is a violation of UI guidelines, they're awkward, and you can only load so many sites at once before things become unreadable, or arrows start appearing.
If Apple goes this way - and I'd like them to - they should go the whole hog. Allow sets of pages to be bookmarked, and labelled with a short name the way single pages can be renamed. Integrate that into the excellent bookmarks manager they have. That would be seriously cool. But, as with other things, I'd like Apple to really think through what the best UI is to present and manage collections of pages, rather than just blindly copying tabs from Mozilla because they're "good enough."
As for the metal look: It vanishes in relation to the size of the web page on my screen (which is "only" 10x7); it provides a clear contrast between the toolbar section and the document section, given the arbitrary appearances of most web sites; and the Aqua hack, frankly, looks terrible. You need to open the nib up in Interface Builder and get some clearance between the buttons and the title bar for it to look at all Mac-like, and then you've got the controls taking up that much more space. I'll admit that it's not as flat-out gorgeous as OmniWeb's interface is, but it's clear, compact, and attractive. I can appreciate that.
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>