iPhone: Safari ad, unofficial hands-on, anti-interference patent

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 150
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wojciechowski View Post


    No offense, but that analogy is retarded.



    If you think that analogy is "retarded" you obviously don't understand the difference between the web and the internet. The web is an information source, delivered via a network. A newspaper is an information source delivered over a network.
  • Reply 22 of 150
    daijonesdaijones Posts: 28member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    The fact that most people are ignorant is no excuse for Apple to join in.



    Again, calling the web "the internet" is exactly like calling a newspaper a road. The world wide web is delivered to you over the internet, and a newspaper is delivered to you/your-local-shop by road. Lots of things other than newspapers can be delivered to you by road, and lots of things other than the web can be delivered to you via the internet. For Apple to advertise the iPhone as having "not a watered-down version of the internet" implies that it can take full advantage of the internet. In fact, the iPhone cannot. This is false advertising.



    Car would be a better analogy than newspaper I guess: roads are a means of allowing easy movement to a range of vehicles, cars are one of several different kinds of vehicle that might use roads. You're right in that "the web" is one of many protocols available on the internet, but alas it's a distinction that's lost on the general public.
  • Reply 23 of 150
    ryukyuryukyu Posts: 448member
    Good grief !!

    Well first of all, most of the eople that frequent this website are not exactly representative of your average computer user.

    Sometimes there's too much nit-pickiness and arguing about petty semantics here.

    Secondly, who cares what they call it as long as they get the idea across?

    The newspaper/road thing is a ridiculous analogy.
  • Reply 24 of 150
    daijonesdaijones Posts: 28member
    Does anyone actually believe this guy used the phone?
  • Reply 25 of 150
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    I can drive on the road without a newspaper



    Just like you can access the internet without a web browser, and the web doesn't have to exist at all for you to have internet access.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    or read a newspaper without the road.



    You can't read a newspaper if you don't have a newspaper, and you need roads (or some other transport network) to get a newspaper from the printers to you.
  • Reply 26 of 150
    gregoriusmgregoriusm Posts: 361member
    Nomenclature. Vernacular. It's whatever you want to call it. It's whatever is in vogue. It's whatever comes into common usage.



    It we want to nit pick, it is not in fact the "world wide" web. It is perhaps the "world that has access to the internet with a device that can use it for browsing, email, ftp, voip, etc. wide" web, but it is is certainly not the "world wide" web. The person or persons who coined that phrase in the first place took some serious artistic license when he/she did it.



    Now, I do understand where you are coming from, Mr. H.



    You would love an advertisement that has aired many a time on a Canadian broadcast network that referred a newspaper in a different way where the newspaper was no longer the "road" or the medium but was the media itself, and the media contained thereon was.... now I forget what he referred to it as... but it was elevating it to a "higher form".



    If I see it again, I'll be sure to message you, because it took some real thought to see where the people who made the advertisement was coming from. Actually, it was the government who made the ad. It was more of a thought provoking deal... there was no product involved. Dang, I wish I remembered it clearly.



    That being said, I know where you're coming from, but I do agree that Apple most likely deliberately is calling it the internet to have it more understandable to those who are in the majority who call it just that... the internet.



    Have you not had numerous calls that ask you about your "internet" usage? How many hours a week, etc? They aren't asking about email, ftp, etc. They are asking about your browsing. Even those companies use the word internet to mean the world wide web.



    So, Apple actually has it right here in using what is commonly referred to as the internet in their commercials, even though we know that if we were to analyze it, as we are, they are not strictly using the proper wording.



    Be well!



    Greg
  • Reply 27 of 150
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daijones View Post


    Car would be a better analogy than newspaper I guess: roads are a means of allowing easy movement to a range of vehicles, cars are one of several different kinds of vehicle that might use roads. You're right in that "the web" is one of many protocols available on the internet, but alas it's a distinction that's lost on the general public.



    A car would be an analogy for some network protocol not associated with the web. If newspapers represent the web, then trucks would represent HTTP.
  • Reply 28 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    If you think that analogy is "retarded" you obviously don't understand the difference between the web and the internet. The web is an information source, delivered via a network. A newspaper is an information source delivered over a network.



    No I perfectly understand the difference between the web and the internet. Just as I understand the difference between newspapers and roads... and that is why I called your analogy retarded.
  • Reply 29 of 150
    gregoriusmgregoriusm Posts: 361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ryukyu View Post


    Secondly, who cares what they call it as long as they get the idea across?



    'Nuff said.
  • Reply 30 of 150
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    JESUS APPLE, the Web is NOT the internet, it utilizes the internet, this is the most annoying misconseption that exists in the technology age: as a corprate PC tech, there is nothing more frustrating than getting a call saying "I broke the internet" when IE (or FF or Safari) crashes
  • Reply 31 of 150
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wojciechowski View Post


    No I perfectly understand the difference between the web and the internet. Just as I understand the difference between newspapers and roads... and that is why I called your analogy retarded.



    Oh really. Well if you can just go ahead and deconstruct the analogy to the point where it is clearly "retarded", I will gladly apologise.
  • Reply 32 of 150
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kresh View Post


    If my home ISP considered the internet to be web browsing/email and prohibited me from anything else, yet marketed it as the internet I would sue them.



    AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!
  • Reply 33 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,840member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    The popular usage is definitely to use the term "internet" to specifically refer to the world wide web. People don't even use the term browser for the most part, they just call it "the internet". If you try to correct them, and explain that world wide web, email, FTP, and all kinds of other network things they use are all part of the internet, they look at you like you are the second coming of Cliff Clavin. Once something gets into the common vernacular, it's pretty much irrelevant what the "proper" term is.



    I'm in favor of either "the interwebs" or "internets".
  • Reply 34 of 150
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,840member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wojciechowski View Post


    No offense, but that analogy is retarded.



    I second the motion.
  • Reply 35 of 150
    gregoriusmgregoriusm Posts: 361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    JESUS APPLE, the Web is NOT the internet, it utilizes the internet, this is the most annoying misconseption that exists in the technology age: as a corprate PC tech, there is nothing more frustrating than getting a call saying "I broke the internet" when IE (or FF or Safari) crashes



    I was a computer tech and had to deal with people who called file types, software, hardware, etc. everything under the sun.



    To take the time to educate them down to the level that we are trying to do here would have taken me, and 10 other techs to do, without getting to the problem.



    "The box on my screen goes away when I click on the OKAY button. What did I break?"



    "Well, technically, sir, it is a cathode ray tube encased in a plastic box with supporting circuitry allowing your computational device which itself is encased in a plastic box with supporting circuitry and software, firmware......".... you get my point?



    K.I.S.S. principle.



    To get any more than that is very often a waste of time.



    I am a computer person and I call the box on top of my TV exactly that when I call the cable company to get help. "The box has a flashing R on it". I don't get anymore "technical" than that. It is up to the tech person to decipher what is wrong and ask the appropriate questions.



    The world in general knows it as "the internet", and to call it anything else is going to confuse people.



    Apple is not going to change that.



    So, call it what the people call it, so that when they DO phone for help with their iPhones, the techs can understand that when they say "internet" they mean the Safari browser, and when they say email, they mean email, and when they say phone, they mean phone.



    The reality is, kids, that the populous calls it the internet when they mean getting on the computer, firing up their browser and surfing.



    I am "on the internet" right now. I'll call you back later when "I'm off the internet".



    That's the way it is.



    Greg
  • Reply 36 of 150
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post


    I've got to say, I'm disgusted that Apple let this ad get out. It's not "the internet", it's "the world wide web".



    Oh, and Balthazar is fantastic. I highly recommend it.



    Also interesting that the term "Internet browser" is used in addition to the term "Web browser."



    Opera says: "A better and faster Internet experience with a full Internet browser"



    Internet Explorer is not titled Web Explorer. It's titled Internet Explorer.



    And by the way, did I mention that the Oxford English Dictionary lists "World Wide Web" as a synonym for the Internet?



    It's really not worth going here, but if you really want to get technical...

    A square is a parallelogram, but a parallelogram is not a square. If you want to get technical, the internet is the parallelogram (broad) and the World Wide Web is the square (specific). By saying the iPhone displays the internet is like saying the square on the piece of paper is a parallelogram. We'll yea, there are other kinds of parallelograms: a rhombus and a rectangle are both parallelograms, but it's not incorrect to say the square is a parallelogram. Sure it's not all parallelograms, but it definitely is a kind of parallelogram. The web is a form of the internet (one of many).



    The fact is, since when has advertising been technical?
  • Reply 37 of 150
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    The internet is nothing more than a network of WANs, or a super-wan if you will, "the internet" really only exists in the bottom 3 layers of the OSI model, Physical(1 or 0, on or off), data-link (uses MAC addresses), and network (network addressing schemes like IP)



    The applications are what it is all about, but the applications are not the internet!
  • Reply 38 of 150
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,698member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    I second the motion.



    How lovely. Thanks for that. I see you provide no actual explanation for this.



    Do you deny that the internet and the web are two different things?

    Do you deny that newspapers and roads are two different things?

    Do you deny that the web is an information source?

    Do you deny that newspapers are an information source?

    Do you deny that the internet is a network?

    Do you deny that roads form a network?



    In order for the web to get to you, information travels over a network - the internet. In order for a newspaper to get to you, information travels over a network - the road network. You can even take it further and have trucks being the equivalent of HTTP.



    Now sure, the analogy isn't perfect. But I think it actually does a pretty good job of translating something that causes most people to glaze-over into something they can relate to and understand.
  • Reply 39 of 150
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Saying that the web is the internet is like saying that HBO IS cable tv; you leave room for nothing else!
  • Reply 40 of 150
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    Oh any by the way...



    Who exactly said that iTunes Store is not the web?



    Uh... think again!



    iTunes is essentially just a web browser allowing people to view the contents of links like this:



    http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...79750&s=143441



    (iTunes uses different protocols within iTunes, but it's still in concept, the web)
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