I was using Safari most of the time, but still had to open Chimera until I found the Hotmail trick and the DLL trick for the online banks for Safari. Now I am using Safari all of the time. I haven't come across a site yet that requires me to open another browser.
I have tried to use Safari as my default a couple of times, but I've always ended up switching back to Chimera after a few minutes or hours. Chimera just seems better and easier to use for me. I am really used to tabs and I hate it when I don't have them. The way I browse these forums is I go to the first one, middle-click (to open a new tab) on all the topics I might be interested in, and as the posts load in the background, I start loading the next forum. It's great.
In Safari, it somewhat makes up for the lack of tabs by having both the snap-back feature and super fast forward and back navigation. Those both help the problem of getting back to a site viewed previously, but they're not as simple and easy as tabs.
Also, Safari doesn't have a graphite-aware interface, as it displays blue in the status bar even if your interface is set to graphite. Extremely minor detail, just noticed it. I am not too fond of the brushed metal either... it seems too heavy. I really prefer Chimera's interface, with a FULLY customizeable toolbar, a throbber instead of a status bar (which it still has, at the bottom), and a simpler bookmark layout. Safari's attempt at using the toolbar, the menu, and the extra folders is just too much. I much prefer the simple drawer of Chimera.
That said, Safari is still pretty good for a beta release. Of course, Chimera is beta too, and it's the best IMO. It helped when I installed the Full Screen Safari application enhancer, but it was still not enough to sway me from Chimera. It also lacks a keychain.
Funny; I read most of this as "they won't release it until they're done working on it," which seems fine with me. Developing on a moving target is a PITA.
And anyone who thinks KHTML is opaque should be thanking God on their knees that Apple didn't adopt Gecko.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I read it that way to, but when they're done there will need to be something else other than WebCore or people simply wont be able to use it. This is different from developing on an evolving framework. It's more like finishing a puzzle with pieces missing.
And to clarify, it's not KHTML that people are complaining about, it's WebCore.
Quote from Dave Hyatt's weblog:
[quote]I keep receiving emails from people trying to build applications using WebCore. People are asking me for help or advice on implementing the bridge inside WebCore.
I don't know why people are trying to do this. It should be obvious from looking at the code that WebCore and JavascriptCore are incomplete, and that there are other pieces required in order to build an application around the Safari engine.
If you're trying to embed the Safari layout engine right now, stop it! Don't try to build code around these two components.
Update:: Quoted from ADC: "In addition to providing the best web browser for Mac users, one of the goals of Safari is to provide a fast and efficient HTML rendering engine for Mac application developers. Apple is actively
preparing a Safari SDK that will be available later this year."
In other words, all good things come to those who wait, so be patient!
<strong>I was using Safari most of the time, but still had to open Chimera until I found the Hotmail trick and the DLL trick for the online banks for Safari. Now I am using Safari all of the time. I haven't come across a site yet that requires me to open another browser.
Yay Apple! Yay Konqueror! </strong><hr></blockquote>
Brad using Chimera? I thought you'd use OmniWeb over Chimera.
i don't like the fact that you can't access the bookmark menu from the pulldown menu. (i know it's on the menu bar but old habits die hard) but that's the only thing i've found that i'm not comfortable with.
when using chimera i always had ie on the dock as i needed it for certain sites. i've only found one site that is not right on safari.
i miss tabbing a little, and i'm not really using snapback at all.
but i can see this being the only browser on my dock. which i couldn't with chimera
Hmm... I just got to my dorm today (hooray for broadband!), and I decided to try Safari on my fast connection here. Surprisingly, it wasn't very fast. Faster than IE, of course, but Chimera shows much more improvement when moving from a slow connection to a fast one. I suppose those speed tests measured Safari against the last official release of Chimera, not the latest nightly build. I've seen Chimera get faster almost every time I download a nightly (about one or two times a month).
What happened - I seem to recall that you opposed Apple releasing their own browser. And yes, EmAn, I also thought Brad was an Omniwed (pun intended) guy. Brad, second thoughts?
I still hate Chimera's interface with a passion, but even I can admit that it's fast and compatible on the rare occasions that I need it.
Did I say it would be a bad thing for Apple to release its own browser? Yes, but at the time there were only two options that we were considering: an all-new Apple HTML engine or Gecko. With the former, people were afraid it would tax too many resources or end up not fitting the standards well enough. With the latter, well, I think the Gecko issue has already been hashed out as of late.
No one really expected Apple to take up Konqueror's engine. The situation has turned out surprisingly well, especially now that Rick has been saying that Omni may merge WebCore into OmniWeb for the next major release. Until that release, I'm satisfied with Safari. It's faster than Chimera in many cases and has a far better interface. It lacks OmniWeb's advanced feature set but, again, I think I can hold off until OW5. Besides, Safari itself still isn't officially finished and may have a few features added by GM.
I'm sticking with Chimera until Safari goes GM. I guess I'm pretty happy with Chimera, except maybe for the odd text entry behavior on occasion. But I'm satisfied enough not to rush immediately to Safari. Chimera is fast and I like the tabbed browsing feature.
Not that you need another reply, saying YES but...
I switched to Safari from day one...I gave it 2 days of serious testing out and then deleted every trace of IE5 from my system.
Now I send an email a day to M$ to complain that hotmail won't work because of there nasty browser detection.
It's Apple, It's Intuitive, It's Fast...
Things I'd like in it? Better linking in with other iApps, nice if iCal could float in a reminder over my browsing in a transparent window, Storing of pictures straight into iPhoto would also be nice and of course a faciltiy to bookmark a web page against a name in your address book would also rock...
I used Safari and only Safari but lately, on my Powerbook G4 especially, it has seemed to be getting considerably slower and stalling on a lot more pages.....
annoying
and I miss the auction manager from IE as I am a constant eBay watcher
I'm using it day to day, though I will certainly check out any OmniWeb updates when they come out.
If I were to add a suggestion here, it would be to save bookmarks to the Sites folder similarly to how iTunes and iPhoto use their respective media folders. There's a nice correlation with the default user folders in OS X and the iApps actually (obviously the Documents folder is a catch-all).
<strong>I used Safari and only Safari but lately, on my Powerbook G4 especially, it has seemed to be getting considerably slower and stalling on a lot more pages.....
annoying
and I miss the auction manager from IE as I am a constant eBay watcher
Just noticed something, when you go to apple's main page there's a little icon in the top left corner welcoming safari user's. how nice. Of course this means that safari is my default browser.
Comments
Yay Apple! Yay Konqueror!
In Safari, it somewhat makes up for the lack of tabs by having both the snap-back feature and super fast forward and back navigation. Those both help the problem of getting back to a site viewed previously, but they're not as simple and easy as tabs.
Also, Safari doesn't have a graphite-aware interface, as it displays blue in the status bar even if your interface is set to graphite. Extremely minor detail, just noticed it. I am not too fond of the brushed metal either... it seems too heavy. I really prefer Chimera's interface, with a FULLY customizeable toolbar, a throbber instead of a status bar (which it still has, at the bottom), and a simpler bookmark layout. Safari's attempt at using the toolbar, the menu, and the extra folders is just too much. I much prefer the simple drawer of Chimera.
That said, Safari is still pretty good for a beta release. Of course, Chimera is beta too, and it's the best IMO. It helped when I installed the Full Screen Safari application enhancer, but it was still not enough to sway me from Chimera. It also lacks a keychain.
<strong>
Funny; I read most of this as "they won't release it until they're done working on it," which seems fine with me. Developing on a moving target is a PITA.
And anyone who thinks KHTML is opaque should be thanking God on their knees that Apple didn't adopt Gecko.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I read it that way to, but when they're done there will need to be something else other than WebCore or people simply wont be able to use it. This is different from developing on an evolving framework. It's more like finishing a puzzle with pieces missing.
And to clarify, it's not KHTML that people are complaining about, it's WebCore.
Quote from Dave Hyatt's weblog:
[quote]I keep receiving emails from people trying to build applications using WebCore. People are asking me for help or advice on implementing the bridge inside WebCore.
I don't know why people are trying to do this. It should be obvious from looking at the code that WebCore and JavascriptCore are incomplete, and that there are other pieces required in order to build an application around the Safari engine.
If you're trying to embed the Safari layout engine right now, stop it!
Update:: Quoted from ADC: "In addition to providing the best web browser for Mac users, one of the goals of Safari is to provide a fast and efficient HTML rendering engine for Mac application developers. Apple is actively
preparing a Safari SDK that will be available later this year."
In other words, all good things come to those who wait, so be patient!
<hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/"; target="_blank">http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/</a>;
<strong>I was using Safari most of the time, but still had to open Chimera until I found the Hotmail trick and the DLL trick for the online banks for Safari. Now I am using Safari all of the time. I haven't come across a site yet that requires me to open another browser.
Yay Apple! Yay Konqueror!
Brad using Chimera? I thought you'd use OmniWeb over Chimera.
[ 01-19-2003: Message edited by: JoeBruin ]</p>
<strong>This is why Safari's my main browser. Screw them on both counts.
[ 01-19-2003: Message edited by: JoeBruin ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've played that a couple of times in the past and it always worked for me in Chimera and IE even though it says that on the bottom.
when using chimera i always had ie on the dock as i needed it for certain sites. i've only found one site that is not right on safari.
i miss tabbing a little, and i'm not really using snapback at all.
but i can see this being the only browser on my dock. which i couldn't with chimera
What happened - I seem to recall that you opposed Apple releasing their own browser. And yes, EmAn, I also thought Brad was an Omniwed (pun intended) guy. Brad, second thoughts?
Did I say it would be a bad thing for Apple to release its own browser? Yes, but at the time there were only two options that we were considering: an all-new Apple HTML engine or Gecko. With the former, people were afraid it would tax too many resources or end up not fitting the standards well enough. With the latter, well, I think the Gecko issue has already been hashed out as of late.
No one really expected Apple to take up Konqueror's engine. The situation has turned out surprisingly well, especially now that Rick has been saying that Omni may merge WebCore into OmniWeb for the next major release. Until that release, I'm satisfied with Safari. It's faster than Chimera in many cases and has a far better interface. It lacks OmniWeb's advanced feature set but, again, I think I can hold off until OW5. Besides, Safari itself still isn't officially finished and may have a few features added by GM.
[ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
I switched to Safari from day one...I gave it 2 days of serious testing out and then deleted every trace of IE5 from my system.
Now I send an email a day to M$ to complain that hotmail won't work because of there nasty browser detection.
It's Apple, It's Intuitive, It's Fast...
Things I'd like in it? Better linking in with other iApps, nice if iCal could float in a reminder over my browsing in a transparent window, Storing of pictures straight into iPhoto would also be nice and of course a faciltiy to bookmark a web page against a name in your address book would also rock...
annoying
and I miss the auction manager from IE as I am a constant eBay watcher
[ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
If I were to add a suggestion here, it would be to save bookmarks to the Sites folder similarly to how iTunes and iPhoto use their respective media folders. There's a nice correlation with the default user folders in OS X and the iApps actually (obviously the Documents folder is a catch-all).
<strong>I used Safari and only Safari but lately, on my Powerbook G4 especially, it has seemed to be getting considerably slower and stalling on a lot more pages.....
annoying
and I miss the auction manager from IE as I am a constant eBay watcher
[ 01-20-2003: Message edited by: applenut ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Have you tried sherlock's auction watcher feature? I've used it a couple times and it worked fine.