...The ZFS red-herring was not of Apple's doing- that came from Sun. Much of the expectations came from rumours outside of the Apple sphere, as they usually do...
You might be correct on some level... But: 1) ZFS was confirmed to have shown up in Leopard builds a few months ago - granted that shouldn't have leaked due to NDAs. 2) Your excusing Apple and putting the blame on the Apple cult/fanboys does not negate the fact that HFS+ is from the stone age and therefore Mac OS X needs a replacement if it wants to call itself the "World's Most Advanced Operating System".
More often then not, it is you and your like that is deliberately misleading. In fact it is more like outright lying.
Underwhelming? True, but only for the small minded. I don't hear any of the 4,000 plus attending developers expressing you views. Or are you calling us doorknob?
What's the matter with you today?
Wake Up!
Well, yes, you do seem to be acting like a doorknob.
Here's what I love... for the last couple years, ALL I read on the forums was speculation about a device Apple had never announced was in the pipeline: the iPhone. All people were talking about was iPhone, iPhone, iPhone. Then Steve goes on stage at Macworld this year, announces a product people highly anticipated but had no clue even existed, and it goes far beyond what anyone was expecting. Now all I see is "enough with the stupid iPhone already!!" Ever since Tiger came out, all I've been seeing is people whining about how horrible the Finder is and how it needs a major overhaul. Steve announces that they are doing just that in Leopard and nobody is happy because he didn't give enough technical information yet on the changes under the hood? I think some of you need to lighten up. Steve impresses us more times than not when he gives a keynote and we shouldn't come to expect the world every single time. It's unreasonable and it's unfair to Steve who has done so well by Apple, its customers, and its shareholders. Without Steve, someone who thought like Michael Dell could've come in and shut it down completely in the 90's. Try to be a little grateful that that didn't happen and stop whining and complaining every time Steve doesn't deliver the world to you. It will happen sometimes, and other times it won't. Perhaps something went wrong with a couple big features he wanted to show us that weren't running up to his standards and so he scrapped them at the last minute and decided instead to elaborate on features we have already been shown. Who knows? How about we save our complaints until October when Leopard is on the market. People are forgetting this is a DEVELOPER'S conference... any major product releases are a bonus and should not be expected every single time Steve takes the stage. I think some people are acting very spoiled.
One of the biggest take-aways from Monday's Apple developer conference was the Mac maker's progress in unifying its user interface across multiple product lines, according to American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu.
Cover flow x Mighty mouse = Mac magic. Please, more of the same for iPhoto and Addressbook!
As a negative:
1/ Safari 3 looks old school with the brushed metal + I don't like the extra tabs I just wanna give stars and tags to my 200+ bookmarks.
2/ .mac is still a joke though, especially homepage
If anything, it is nothing like a Macworld in that the focus was the OS and development of applications. The ZFS red-herring was not of Apple's doing- that came from Sun. Much of the expectations came from rumours outside of the Apple sphere, as they usually do. The issue with all this rumour mongering and hype is that people actually get to think that a lot of the speculation is, or should be, FACT! And then there is all manner of hand-wringing when this or that feature is absent.
The past two, or three, years were very much like a Macworld inApple's presentations.
As far as ZFS goes. Apple is know to be working on it. I've read a good bit by Apple engineers talking about the progress. The expectation was fueled well before Schwartz made his statement.
Here's an article from back in April, which is a follow up from an even earlier one. Follow the links:
I totally agree! WWDC 2007 = Very underwhelming. No ZFS Not really any "Top Secret" features - and nobody can say that it was just us Mac dudes hyping this one... because Apple did more than enough to hype this by plastering "Top Secret Features" all over for the last 6 months, etc.
WTF?!
What is Steve Jobs thinking?
This is the major problem. If they hadn't hyped "top secret features", then the few new things we got would have been great. But by letting us hang with "top secret features" and "worth the wait" for 10 months, they certain set the bar high. Granted, the Mac rumor-mill community raised it further, but this really didn't meet anyone's standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suhail
If Apple made it possible to run Windows apps alongside OSX, then developers would only develop for the Windows platform claiming all their software runs OSX.
Bad idea.
I'm not so sure. People would inherently prefer the Mac versions to the PC versions, because the Mac versions would have integration with CoreWhatever, and Mac-look-and-feel, and Mac services, and all of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
The other important factor I got from the keynote was how few copies of BootCamp have actually been downloaded. It's around a tenth of Tiger's install base which was 63% of Mac users IIRC. Obviously, some of those are PowerPC machines but I'd have thought it would be higher give the hype that seems to be attached to this feature.
I think that even "Number of downloads" doesn't give you the right idea of useage. I would say that a decent percent of people who download Boot Camp don't use it regularly. I currently have it, but it's just to play one game, and I boot into it maybe monthly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
There is NO reason not to show hardware at WWDC, and every reason to.
Even developers like to see new hardware, and it gives them a good feeling that the platform is moving forward.
Well, a top reason not to show hardware would be if that they don't have any to show. However, they could reasonably at least speed-bump the Mini and/or the iMac to Santa Rosa.
The other important factor I got from the keynote was how few copies of BootCamp have actually been downloaded. It's around a tenth of Tiger's install base which was 63% of Mac users IIRC. Obviously, some of those are PowerPC machines but I'd have thought it would be higher give the hype that seems to be attached to this feature. Personally, I've absolutely no desire or need to run Windows so I'm with the 95% or so who haven't downloaded Bootcamp.
Can you run Windows natively on your PowerPC Mac? No. The PowerPC user-base is irrelevant when talking about Boot Camp, they have no reason whatsoever to download Boot Camp.
I think Apple has sold ~7.5-8 million Intel Macs as of June 2007, and Boot Camp has been downloaded over 2.5 million times. About one-third of the Intel Mac user-base has downloaded the beta, and some of these guys are toying with Parallels or VMWare. And about half of the customers purchasing Macs in the United States are PC switchers/adders. There is a fair amount of interest in running Windows on Intel-based Macs.
Can you run Windows natively on your PowerPC Mac? No. The PowerPC user-base is irrelevant when talking about Boot Camp, they have no reason whatsoever to download Boot Camp.
I think you're wrong. They've also had no reason to upgrade to Intel Macs in order to run Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AISI
I think Apple has sold ~7.5-8 million Intel Macs as of June 2007, and Boot Camp has been downloaded over 2.5 million times. About one-third of the Intel Mac user-base has downloaded the beta, and some of these guys are toying with Parallels or VMWare. And about half of the customers purchasing Macs in the United States are PC switchers/adders. There is a fair amount of interest in running Windows on Intel-based Macs.
That's fair comment but ultimately I'd still stand by the figure that only about 5% of Mac users have a desire to run Windows on their Macs and that the feature is being overhyped by analysts.
If Apple made it possible to run Windows apps alongside OSX, then developers would only develop for the Windows platform claiming all their software runs OSX.
Bad idea.
They're doing this to expand iPhone apps development, and I daresay... Apple TV development, since cross-compatibility is the new black.
The past two, or three, years were very much like a Macworld inApple's presentations.
As far as ZFS goes. Apple is know to be working on it. I've read a good bit by Apple engineers talking about the progress. The expectation was fueled well before Schwartz made his statement.
Here's an article from back in April, which is a follow up from an even earlier one. Follow the links:
Indeed, there has been some Macworld aura to past WWDC-- if you go back and look at hem you will see why there was a need to introduce products as well as focus on application development. This year we seem to be back on track. I am guessing that more frequent events will be the order of the day as it is not possible for Apple to only have two events a year and deal with everything the company seems to have going.
As for ZFS, I read that article too and it means nothing. Of course Apple is interested in all sorts of technologies that are going to advance the company's products. Doesn't mean now or even soon for many. So again, the possibility gets turned into a fact, and then bitter tears! it is quite funny. I love reading this stuff on here-- it is perfect couch and Prozac stuff! ZFS though, will almost certainly turn up in OSX-- perhaps sooner than you think!
Stop and ignore the keynote. Look at Leopard as it is now. 300 features. Probably 250 of those are "we added an extra color option here" or something like that. But look at the Leopard site - there are some really major new things in there. Honestly, the new dock is awesome and answers a huge issue with OS X today. Stacks will revolutionize how people organize things. The new Finder is finally here. We'll see how new it really is.
But look at the OS - it is an OS afterall, not just a collection of apps. Why are so many third party developers saying they will only develop for Leopard? How big of an improvement does that mean?
Leopard will be really worth the wait. I'm quite sure of it.
I can understand uninformed users not grasping what WWDC is and turning wild speculation into hyped expectation. But professionals should know better.
Part of the problem is the expectations SJ built. 'Ten Top Secret' features? Yeah, right. The new finder is nice but the new desktop bears a passing similarity to the new one from MS.
Apple better hope the lady that did the 'where's the beef' adds for Wendy's is either dead or retired.
Stop and ignore the keynote. Look at Leopard as it is now. 300 features. Probably 250 of those are "we added an extra color option here" or something like that. But look at the Leopard site - there are some really major new things in there. Honestly, the new dock is awesome and answers a huge issue with OS X today. Stacks will revolutionize how people organize things. The new Finder is finally here. We'll see how new it really is.
But look at the OS - it is an OS afterall, not just a collection of apps. Why are so many third party developers saying they will only develop for Leopard? How big of an improvement does that mean?
Leopard will be really worth the wait. I'm quite sure of it.
for the developers, core animation, core audio, etc has got to be just an awesome tool to add to your tool belt.
how cool is that? it makes me want to start coding gui apps and revisit my objective-c books. it's definitely a win for the developers. a lot of the direction of this release reminds me of the microsoft strategy for winning the desktop; easy software development with powerful tools. In a way it kind of answers that jab gates made, something to the tune of, "thousands of applications that wont run on os x" or some such, especially with parallels maturing and boot camp being built in.
As a user, one thing i really like thats going to be built in is grammar checking for applications. Coupling that with the spell checking is a great way to extend functionality easily to messenger apps, web browsers, etc... places where you'd otherwise just type something stupid and not know the difference. I know the spell check alone has saved me hundreds if not thousands of times already
I think you're wrong. They've also had no reason to upgrade to Intel Macs in order to run Windows. That's fair comment but ultimately I'd still stand by the figure that only about 5% of Mac users have a desire to run Windows on their Macs and that the feature is being overhyped by analysts.
Existing Mac customers (numbering in the millions) will upgrade their PowerPC hardware. Not necessarily to run Windows, old Mac fans are less likely to need Windows apps and thus the percentage of people using Windows on Intel Macs could decrease, depending on volume of sales and especially the percentage of Mac sales to new users. But the "Windows on Intel" market is larger and more important than you think, Apple is developing Boot Camp and additonally two third-party developers, Parallels and VMWare, are competing fiercely (VMware's Unity feature vs Parallels' Coherence mode, etc.). These apps would not exist if there was no market.
About 33 percent of the current Intel Mac user-base has downloaded Boot Camp. If you prefer, that's over 10 percent of the entire Mac OS X user-base, including PPC Macs (22 million OS X users according to Jobs/2.5 million Boot Camp downloads).
1) MW 07 Jobs said there were secret features they couldn't reveal for fear of the competition coping them. They would be revealed at WWDC.
2) SJ gets on stage at WWDC and says he's going to show 10 features of Leopard. NOW most would expect these to be unrevealed features that were alluded to at MW not a rehash of features shown at MW and demoed at apple's on website et their leopard preview section.
Sorry, SJ let people down on this. And it isn't just Mel and I. Look at other threads and you'll see a lot of long time forum members surprised at disappointed at the keynote.
Comments
...The ZFS red-herring was not of Apple's doing- that came from Sun. Much of the expectations came from rumours outside of the Apple sphere, as they usually do...
You might be correct on some level... But: 1) ZFS was confirmed to have shown up in Leopard builds a few months ago - granted that shouldn't have leaked due to NDAs. 2) Your excusing Apple and putting the blame on the Apple cult/fanboys does not negate the fact that HFS+ is from the stone age and therefore Mac OS X needs a replacement if it wants to call itself the "World's Most Advanced Operating System".
More often then not, it is you and your like that is deliberately misleading. In fact it is more like outright lying.
Underwhelming? True, but only for the small minded. I don't hear any of the 4,000 plus attending developers expressing you views. Or are you calling us doorknob?
What's the matter with you today?
Wake Up!
Well, yes, you do seem to be acting like a doorknob.
One of the biggest take-aways from Monday's Apple developer conference was the Mac maker's progress in unifying its user interface across multiple product lines, according to American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu.
Cover flow x Mighty mouse = Mac magic. Please, more of the same for iPhoto and Addressbook!
As a negative:
1/ Safari 3 looks old school with the brushed metal + I don't like the extra tabs
2/ .mac is still a joke though, especially homepage
If anything, it is nothing like a Macworld in that the focus was the OS and development of applications. The ZFS red-herring was not of Apple's doing- that came from Sun. Much of the expectations came from rumours outside of the Apple sphere, as they usually do. The issue with all this rumour mongering and hype is that people actually get to think that a lot of the speculation is, or should be, FACT! And then there is all manner of hand-wringing when this or that feature is absent.
The past two, or three, years were very much like a Macworld inApple's presentations.
As far as ZFS goes. Apple is know to be working on it. I've read a good bit by Apple engineers talking about the progress. The expectation was fueled well before Schwartz made his statement.
Here's an article from back in April, which is a follow up from an even earlier one. Follow the links:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/4/27/3777
Perhaps you should start paying attention to what is going around around you.
Jobs said that. I think that anyone here can tell you that.
Yeah, well then you and your like don't know what you are talking about.
And if you say he said that he was going to show the ten secret features at the WWDC 07 keynote best you get your friggin head out of your ass.
Ref: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/d7625zs/event/ at the 00:16:24 mark.
I totally agree! WWDC 2007 = Very underwhelming. No ZFS
WTF?!
What is Steve Jobs thinking?
This is the major problem. If they hadn't hyped "top secret features", then the few new things we got would have been great. But by letting us hang with "top secret features" and "worth the wait" for 10 months, they certain set the bar high. Granted, the Mac rumor-mill community raised it further, but this really didn't meet anyone's standards.
If Apple made it possible to run Windows apps alongside OSX, then developers would only develop for the Windows platform claiming all their software runs OSX.
Bad idea.
I'm not so sure. People would inherently prefer the Mac versions to the PC versions, because the Mac versions would have integration with CoreWhatever, and Mac-look-and-feel, and Mac services, and all of that.
The other important factor I got from the keynote was how few copies of BootCamp have actually been downloaded. It's around a tenth of Tiger's install base which was 63% of Mac users IIRC. Obviously, some of those are PowerPC machines but I'd have thought it would be higher give the hype that seems to be attached to this feature.
I think that even "Number of downloads" doesn't give you the right idea of useage. I would say that a decent percent of people who download Boot Camp don't use it regularly. I currently have it, but it's just to play one game, and I boot into it maybe monthly.
There is NO reason not to show hardware at WWDC, and every reason to.
Even developers like to see new hardware, and it gives them a good feeling that the platform is moving forward.
Well, a top reason not to show hardware would be if that they don't have any to show. However, they could reasonably at least speed-bump the Mini and/or the iMac to Santa Rosa.
The other important factor I got from the keynote was how few copies of BootCamp have actually been downloaded. It's around a tenth of Tiger's install base which was 63% of Mac users IIRC. Obviously, some of those are PowerPC machines but I'd have thought it would be higher give the hype that seems to be attached to this feature. Personally, I've absolutely no desire or need to run Windows so I'm with the 95% or so who haven't downloaded Bootcamp.
Can you run Windows natively on your PowerPC Mac? No. The PowerPC user-base is irrelevant when talking about Boot Camp, they have no reason whatsoever to download Boot Camp.
I think Apple has sold ~7.5-8 million Intel Macs as of June 2007, and Boot Camp has been downloaded over 2.5 million times. About one-third of the Intel Mac user-base has downloaded the beta, and some of these guys are toying with Parallels or VMWare. And about half of the customers purchasing Macs in the United States are PC switchers/adders. There is a fair amount of interest in running Windows on Intel-based Macs.
Can you run Windows natively on your PowerPC Mac? No. The PowerPC user-base is irrelevant when talking about Boot Camp, they have no reason whatsoever to download Boot Camp.
I think you're wrong. They've also had no reason to upgrade to Intel Macs in order to run Windows.
I think Apple has sold ~7.5-8 million Intel Macs as of June 2007, and Boot Camp has been downloaded over 2.5 million times. About one-third of the Intel Mac user-base has downloaded the beta, and some of these guys are toying with Parallels or VMWare. And about half of the customers purchasing Macs in the United States are PC switchers/adders. There is a fair amount of interest in running Windows on Intel-based Macs.
That's fair comment but ultimately I'd still stand by the figure that only about 5% of Mac users have a desire to run Windows on their Macs and that the feature is being overhyped by analysts.
If Apple made it possible to run Windows apps alongside OSX, then developers would only develop for the Windows platform claiming all their software runs OSX.
Bad idea.
They're doing this to expand iPhone apps development, and I daresay... Apple TV development, since cross-compatibility is the new black.
The past two, or three, years were very much like a Macworld inApple's presentations.
As far as ZFS goes. Apple is know to be working on it. I've read a good bit by Apple engineers talking about the progress. The expectation was fueled well before Schwartz made his statement.
Here's an article from back in April, which is a follow up from an even earlier one. Follow the links:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/4/27/3777
Indeed, there has been some Macworld aura to past WWDC-- if you go back and look at hem you will see why there was a need to introduce products as well as focus on application development. This year we seem to be back on track. I am guessing that more frequent events will be the order of the day as it is not possible for Apple to only have two events a year and deal with everything the company seems to have going.
As for ZFS, I read that article too and it means nothing. Of course Apple is interested in all sorts of technologies that are going to advance the company's products. Doesn't mean now or even soon for many. So again, the possibility gets turned into a fact, and then bitter tears! it is quite funny. I love reading this stuff on here-- it is perfect couch and Prozac stuff! ZFS though, will almost certainly turn up in OSX-- perhaps sooner than you think!
Yeah, well then you and your like don't know what you are talking about.
And if you say he said that he was going to show the ten secret features at the WWDC 07 keynote best you get your friggin head out of your ass.
Ref: http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/d7625zs/event/ at the 00:16:24 mark.
Now it's on!!!! You got served!!!11
But look at the OS - it is an OS afterall, not just a collection of apps. Why are so many third party developers saying they will only develop for Leopard? How big of an improvement does that mean?
Leopard will be really worth the wait. I'm quite sure of it.
Are you serious? It's not so much the colors I hate.. it's the whole design of the scroll bars and window buttons. They just suck however you slice it
what exactly is it you're comparing them to thats so much better? pics or shens
I can understand uninformed users not grasping what WWDC is and turning wild speculation into hyped expectation. But professionals should know better.
Part of the problem is the expectations SJ built. 'Ten Top Secret' features? Yeah, right. The new finder is nice but the new desktop bears a passing similarity to the new one from MS.
Apple better hope the lady that did the 'where's the beef' adds for Wendy's is either dead or retired.
Perhaps you should start paying attention to what is going around around you.
Jobs said that. I think that anyone here can tell you that.
I do agree that A2C is getting a little too aggressive, but I don't remember there being a claim of ten or any specific number of secret features.
Stop and ignore the keynote. Look at Leopard as it is now. 300 features. Probably 250 of those are "we added an extra color option here" or something like that. But look at the Leopard site - there are some really major new things in there. Honestly, the new dock is awesome and answers a huge issue with OS X today. Stacks will revolutionize how people organize things. The new Finder is finally here. We'll see how new it really is.
But look at the OS - it is an OS afterall, not just a collection of apps. Why are so many third party developers saying they will only develop for Leopard? How big of an improvement does that mean?
Leopard will be really worth the wait. I'm quite sure of it.
for the developers, core animation, core audio, etc has got to be just an awesome tool to add to your tool belt.
http://www.discoapp.com/preview/smoke.html
how cool is that? it makes me want to start coding gui apps and revisit my objective-c books. it's definitely a win for the developers. a lot of the direction of this release reminds me of the microsoft strategy for winning the desktop; easy software development with powerful tools. In a way it kind of answers that jab gates made, something to the tune of, "thousands of applications that wont run on os x" or some such, especially with parallels maturing and boot camp being built in.
As a user, one thing i really like thats going to be built in is grammar checking for applications. Coupling that with the spell checking is a great way to extend functionality easily to messenger apps, web browsers, etc... places where you'd otherwise just type something stupid and not know the difference. I know the spell check alone has saved me hundreds if not thousands of times already
I do agree that A2C is getting a little too aggressive, but I don't remember there being a claim of ten or any specific number of secret features.
"top ten" and "top secret" are not quite the same thing. i think he somehow merged the idea and came up with "top ten secret"...
one too many reruns of americas funniest home videos for him
I think you're wrong. They've also had no reason to upgrade to Intel Macs in order to run Windows. That's fair comment but ultimately I'd still stand by the figure that only about 5% of Mac users have a desire to run Windows on their Macs and that the feature is being overhyped by analysts.
Existing Mac customers (numbering in the millions) will upgrade their PowerPC hardware. Not necessarily to run Windows, old Mac fans are less likely to need Windows apps and thus the percentage of people using Windows on Intel Macs could decrease, depending on volume of sales and especially the percentage of Mac sales to new users. But the "Windows on Intel" market is larger and more important than you think, Apple is developing Boot Camp and additonally two third-party developers, Parallels and VMWare, are competing fiercely (VMware's Unity feature vs Parallels' Coherence mode, etc.). These apps would not exist if there was no market.
About 33 percent of the current Intel Mac user-base has downloaded Boot Camp. If you prefer, that's over 10 percent of the entire Mac OS X user-base, including PPC Macs (22 million OS X users according to Jobs/2.5 million Boot Camp downloads).
1) MW 07 Jobs said there were secret features they couldn't reveal for fear of the competition coping them. They would be revealed at WWDC.
2) SJ gets on stage at WWDC and says he's going to show 10 features of Leopard. NOW most would expect these to be unrevealed features that were alluded to at MW not a rehash of features shown at MW and demoed at apple's on website et their leopard preview section.
Sorry, SJ let people down on this. And it isn't just Mel and I. Look at other threads and you'll see a lot of long time forum members surprised at disappointed at the keynote.
Try this thread. http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=75345
PS I stand corrected. It was at WWDC 06 that SJ alluded to secret features of Leopard that would be revealed later.