I agree that, for now, the iPhone is irrelevant for most business users. But, I know a number of business users that have Treo's, and a couple with Windows Mobile models as well.
Do they use all their Smart Phone capabilities? That was my point about the Blackberry addicts in my very small sample. The are only interested in a very limited subset of its features.
The Palm Treo is actually a great example of a very smart phone with many Apps that never "tipped" like the Blackberry. Palm is biding time right now waiting and hoping to be acquired by someone, any one. RIMM on the other hand is a mega success story with a devoted following and Stock that approaches AAPL for stardom and $$$.
Do they use all their Smart Phone capabilities? That was my point about the Blackberry addicts in my very small sample. The are only interested in a very limited subset of its features.
That's a real good question.
We have had an argument here about just what constitutes a smartphone.
If they only use the e-mail feature, do they need a "real" smartphone at all?
I use every function of my Treo EXCEPT the email.
From what I know about those people I mentioned, it varies. Some use only e-mail, others use more functions. Appointments and scheduling seems to the other big app.
Memos to themselves about something seems to be another important function.
They must not get text messages with photo's from other phones then because that doesn't work on a Crack berry. Push email. I am not sure why this feature ranks king among my kind. Why not just have the phone check every few minutes like a COMPUTER.
Not check the web? What kind of business are they in? Highschool? I check stock quotes currently quite a bit. Google Apps (company calendar mainly) would be sweet!!! iPhone all the way...
Crackberry addict here...
The guys are text and numbers guys in my very small sample--Business people constantly making deals, checking on messages and figures from a client or the office (I met them via my Fantasy Football leagues). When I have lunch with them, they check their Blackberry every 30 seconds, give or take, for new emails. They're like chain smokers. I didn't say they didn't check the web--they just said it was not that easy given the current system to browse and read web pages on their smart phones. I didn't ask, but should have, if they at least looked at a stock ticker. The point of my post was not that the iPhone won't be a good businessman's phone--it might be. I cited 11 busines s guys who had smartphones but only cared mainly about one feature, push email /text only messaging--other advanced smart phone features were irrelevant to this group.As with any anecdotal info and small group sizes, they may not be representative of the population. However, if you're ever down on Wall Street at lunch time, watch the boys and girls as they scurry off to lunch. They "chain smoke" constantly.
IMO, what "tipped" the Blackberry into the wildly popular device it is today, was its push email system. I'm hoping the iPhone has A function or functions which which will "tip" it in the business world (easy functional web browsing?) and in the consumer world (coolness, Ipod, other).
As a Crackberry addict, why don't you tell us what advanced smart phone features/Apps you currently use?
I use a Blackberry for work and only ever use it for emails and making calls, Nothing else. I can see web based location services useful if i could ever be bothered to give them ago. When arriving in a new city i guess local directions and maps being good. As it stands i cannot see the iPhone making a good business device but it is not unforeseeable that Apple will have at least 2-3 models of iphone next year and i guess one of them would be a business device.
I work for a software company and our product is an office communications platform with real time presence that integrates with Microsoft Exchange, next month we will be putting our client on Blackberry's and Windows Mobile, i obviously will be running our app then and this is certainly something that the likes of Microsoft, Cisco, IBM and co are all looking at doing. If Apple release a business class device then 3rd party apps is something that they are going to have to support from day one.
I think the Blackberry tipping point may well have been push email but the keyboard was certainly a factor, i love my blackberry keyboard for emails and sms but as well as the best feature of my blackberry it is also the worst as it makes it a dog of a phone to carry around. If the iPhone touchscreen keyboard works as well as Steve Jobs say it does then a business device with that technology could well be a Blackberry rival.
I use a Blackberry for work and only ever use it for emails and making calls, Nothing else. I can see web based location services useful if i could ever be bothered to give them ago. When arriving in a new city i guess local directions and maps being good. As it stands i cannot see the iPhone making a good business device but it is not unforeseeable that Apple will have at least 2-3 models of iphone next year and i guess one of them would be a business device.
I work for a software company and our product is an office communications platform with real time presence that integrates with Microsoft Exchange, next month we will be putting our client on Blackberry's and Windows Mobile, i obviously will be running our app then and this is certainly something that the likes of Microsoft, Cisco, IBM and co are all looking at doing. If Apple release a business class device then 3rd party apps is something that they are going to have to support from day one.
I think the Blackberry tipping point may well have been push email but the keyboard was certainly a factor, i love my blackberry keyboard for emails and sms but as well as the best feature of my blackberry it is also the worst as it makes it a dog of a phone to carry around. If the iPhone touchscreen keyboard works as well as Steve Jobs say it does then a business device with that technology could well be a Blackberry rival.
Good post for this Apple-centric board. LOL, I used one from my guys to make a call and it was like holding a small plate to my ear.
Here's a good review of the new Blackberry 8800, the main competition the iPhone will face if it is ever going to make a dent in the business world. The 8800 is RIM's attempt at sleek and cool packaging of its push email drug.
It's useful to see what features this Smartphone has and compare it to those of the iPhone. While Apple is going to target consumers at first, if it is ever going to "tip" Crackberry businessmen addicts into iPhone addicts, this unit is the one it has to eventually compete with.
The guys are text and numbers guys in my very small sample--Business people constantly making deals, checking on messages and figures from a client or the office (I met them via my Fantasy Football leagues). When I have lunch with them, they check their Blackberry every 30 seconds, give or take, for new emails. They're like chain smokers. I didn't say they didn't check the web--they just said it was not that easy given the current system to browse and read web pages on their smart phones. I didn't ask, but should have, if they at least looked at a stock ticker. The point of my post was not that the iPhone won't be a good businessman's phone--it might be. I cited 11 busines s guys who had smartphones but only cared mainly about one feature, push email /text only messaging--other advanced smart phone features were irrelevant to this group.As with any anecdotal info and small group sizes, they may not be representative of the population. However, if you're ever down on Wall Street at lunch time, watch the boys and girls as they scurry off to lunch. They "chain smoke" constantly.
IMO, what "tipped" the Blackberry into the wildly popular device it is today, was its push email system. I'm hoping the iPhone has A function or functions which which will "tip" it in the business world (easy functional web browsing?) and in the consumer world (coolness, Ipod, other).
As a Crackberry addict, why don't you tell us what advanced smart phone features/Apps you currently use?
I use my BlackBerry 8703e for email, text messaging, quick web browsing for stock quotes, weather, and sports scores. Past that, I do not use the Blackberry for anything else other than calling. Now, I sync my phone via PocketMac for Blackberry. It is a work phone for my buissness. We have ~55+ employee's and 5 of us carry BlackBerry's. If you can store files on a Blackberry 8703e from Verizon, I can't do it and don't care too because while being the badest phone around, after seeing the iPhone it might as well have a rotary dial on it now.
My brother and I will be upgrading to the iPhone because of better sync tech, better calendar, better Mac integration, better WEB BROWSER that can be used to actually look something up, better calling features as three way, swapping back and forth, not having a thumb wheel to wear out. I was hoping for PDF viewer on the iPhone too.
One thing I can say is I have dropped my Blackberry more than I care to count and it is still going. The 8703e is my third one. I generally get a new release model once every 12 - 18 months depending on features and/or accidents (dropping my first Blackberry in a puddle of water getting out of the car : ).
The iPhone will dominate and Push email is way overrated. While I don't have a problem with Push email, nor do I constantly check my phone for email unless I am bored at which point on the iPhone I can listen to music, watch a video, or actually surf the web via WAN or wifi.
I use my BlackBerry 8703e for email, text messaging, quick web browsing for stock quotes, weather, and sports scores. Past that, I do not use the Blackberry for anything else other than calling. Now, I sync my phone via PocketMac for Blackberry. It is a work phone for my buissness. We have ~55+ employee's and 5 of us carry BlackBerry's. If you can store files on a Blackberry 8703e from Verizon, I can't do it and don't care too because while being the badest phone around, after seeing the iPhone it might as well have a rotary dial on it now.
My brother and I will be upgrading to the iPhone because of better sync tech, better calendar, better Mac integration, better WEB BROWSER that can be used to actually look something up, better calling features as three way, swapping back and forth, not having a thumb wheel to wear out. I was hoping for PDF viewer on the iPhone too.
One thing I can say is I have dropped my Blackberry more than I care to count and it is still going. The 8703e is my third one. I generally get a new release model once every 12 - 18 months depending on features and/or accidents (dropping my first Blackberry in a puddle of water getting out of the car : ).
The iPhone will dominate and Push email is way overrated. While I don't have a problem with Push email, nor do I constantly check my phone for email unless I am bored at which point on the iPhone I can listen to music, watch a video, or actually surf the web via WAN or wifi.
Thanks for the response aplnub. I'll be right behind you in line to buy my iPhone. IYO, push email is "way over rated" but it is the drug which has the RIM masses addicted.
For the folks on this board who have no frame of reference, could you please describe your Web experience with your Blackberrys? For example, ease of connection, speed, surfability, ease of seeing the print on web pages, etc. Thanks.
Thanks for the response aplnub. I'll be right behind you in line to buy my iPhone. IYO, push email is "way over rated" but it is the drug which has the RIM masses addicted.
For the folks on this board who have no frame of reference, could you please describe your Web experience with your Blackberrys? For example, ease of connection, speed, surfability, ease of seeing the print on web pages, etc. Thanks.
The Blackberry has a web browser but not like a computer. The server, i.e. I assume the phone company or RIM, take the web page data and rearrange it so the the Blackberry can view it. Viewing this forums and normal websites sucks! For instance, if you look on the left at my username, it shows up inline (top to bottom) with the postings and is meshed together with all the other stuff. You can only scroll vertical so they have to format the page to be just that, skinny and vertical.
On a Verizon 1X connection, browsing is slow for most normal websites. Evolution speeds are NOT that much better either. It takes a 48 seconds to pull up this thread (that was after I had already pulled it up first thing this morning). I feel this is because of the reformating of the page data so the black berry goes at it backwards since it lets the server do the formatting and not the phone.
The screen size was nice and big until the iPhone hit the scene. Landscape mode will be awesome.
However, email delivery (sending and receiving) is near instant. I recommend the email for doing email contest like on Fox and Friends in the morning. Once it's gone, it is delivered.
The Blackberry has a web browser but not like a computer. The server, i.e. I assume the phone company or RIM, take the web page data and rearrange it so the the Blackberry can view it. Viewing this forums and normal websites sucks! For instance, if you look on the left at my username, it shows up inline (top to bottom) with the postings and is meshed together with all the other stuff. You can only scroll vertical so they have to format the page to be just that, skinny and vertical.
On a Verizon 1X connection, browsing is slow for most normal websites. Evolution speeds are NOT that much better either. It takes a 48 seconds to pull up this thread (that was after I had already pulled it up first thing this morning). I feel this is because of the reformating of the page data so the black berry goes at it backwards since it lets the server do the formatting and not the phone.
The screen size was nice and big until the iPhone hit the scene. Landscape mode will be awesome.
However, email delivery (sending and receiving) is near instant. I recommend the email for doing email contest like on Fox and Friends in the morning. Once it's gone, it is delivered.
Thanks. You just described my limited poor web experiences with Smartphones. That's why I keep saying that if the widescreen/landscape iPhone system can deliver a superior web browsing experince, it will be the killer App or "Tipping Point" for a mobile phone. Combine that with at least acceptable typing on the virtual keyboard plus push email, and you have a mega success. Whether it's a "Smartphone" by today's standards is irrelevant.
You just described my limited poor web experiences with Smartphones. That's why I keep saying that if the widescreen/landscape iPhone system can deliver a superior web browsing experince, it will be the killer App or "Tipping Point" for a mobile phone. Combine that with at least acceptable typing on the virtual keyboard plus push email, and you have a mega success. Whether it's a "Smartphone" by today's standards is irrelevant.
I think what you are describing would be a killer phone for general use, The lack of 3G support is a strange one and i would imagine is one the reasons why Apple are reported to be struggling to find a UK carrier. GPRS does not deliver a decent enough web browsing experience so to pitch the phone as a web device but then to not support the fastest mobile data speeds leaves the iPhone wanting somewhat, i appreciate things maybe different in the sates, how fast is Edge? Though wifi is a great thing to have and if you lived in a city where there was blanket wifi coverage then the lack of 3G would certainly not be as important.
What you described however is certainly not enough to market this is as a business phone ala Blackberry, acceptable typing would not be acceptable for a device that you may possibly send 20-30 emails a day from, you need much better than acceptable, hence why the blackberry is so popular. I am not even sure the bigger screen would make a difference, business users are not really interested in a browser, the whole point of a Blackberry is to keep in touch while on the move, i can't think where i would get the chance to browse the web while out and about let alone why i would want to.
So for a personal phone for those people who want more from a phone than just calls and sms i think the iPhone is going to take some beating, but to talk about the iPhone as a Blackberry rival i think is premature, no matter how cool the iPhone seems to be and no matter how much i may want one i cannot see myself swapping a Blackberry for one unless the keyboard is as easy to type on as Blackberry and the email worked as well and could sync properly with Exchange.
I think what you are describing would be a killer phone for general use, The lack of 3G support is a strange one and i would imagine is one the reasons why Apple are reported to be struggling to find a UK carrier. GPRS does not deliver a decent enough web browsing experience so to pitch the phone as a web device but then to not support the fastest mobile data speeds leaves the iPhone wanting somewhat, i appreciate things maybe different in the sates, how fast is Edge? Though wifi is a great thing to have and if you lived in a city where there was blanket wifi coverage then the lack of 3G would certainly not be as important.
What you described however is certainly not enough to market this is as a business phone ala Blackberry, acceptable typing would not be acceptable for a device that you may possibly send 20-30 emails a day from, you need much better than acceptable, hence why the blackberry is so popular. I am not even sure the bigger screen would make a difference, business users are not really interested in a browser, the whole point of a Blackberry is to keep in touch while on the move, i can't think where i would get the chance to browse the web while out and about let alone why i would want to.
So for a personal phone for those people who want more from a phone than just calls and sms i think the iPhone is going to take some beating, but to talk about the iPhone as a Blackberry rival i think is premature, no matter how cool the iPhone seems to be and no matter how much i may want one i cannot see myself swapping a Blackberry for one unless the keyboard is as easy to type on as Blackberry and the email worked as well and could sync properly with Exchange.
All very fair, legitimate points Murphy. However, one thing we see increasing daily in the business world is use of the web as a vehicle for conducting business. See the dramatic rise of Salesforce.com for example and their competitors in this arena including such giants as IBM , SAP, Oracle and British Telecom. Furthermore, individual companies (like some Pharma companies I consult for) are increasing their use of secure encrypted web sites as a portal for getting, manipulating and leaving company based business data and strategic information. Nonetheless, I strongly agree with you that the Blackberry will be a formidable rival for the iPhone system for some time because of its firmly entrenched push email system and the ease of thumb typing on its models. In the early years of the iPhone, I don't think AAPL expects much penetration into the business market anyway--RIMM is just too strong. However, RIMM'S competitors in this area, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony/Ericsson and the soon to be defunct Palm are all at risk for market share from AAPL despite how "Smart" their phones are. In the business world, it's not about "Smart" in the phone. RIMM has shown that one small but very key functionality is all it takes to dominate the market.
All very fair, legitimate points Murphy. However, one thing we see increasing daily in the business world is use of the web as a vehicle for conducting business. See the dramatic rise of Salesforce.com for example and their competitors in this arena including such giants as IBM , SAP, Oracle and British Telecom. Furthermore, individual companies (like some Pharma companies I consult for) are increasing their use of secure encrypted web sites as a portal for getting, manipulating and leaving company based business data and strategic information. Nonetheless, I strongly agree with you that the Blackberry will be a formidable rival for the iPhone system for some time because of its firmly entrenched push email system and the ease of thumb typing on its models. In the early years of the iPhone, I don't think AAPL expects much penetration into the business market anyway--RIMM is just too strong. However, RIMM'S competitors in this area, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony/Ericsson and the soon to be defunct Palm are all at risk for market share from AAPL despite how "Smart" their phones are. In the business world, it's not about "Smart" in the phone. RIMM has shown that one small but very key functionality is all it takes to dominate the market.
What I find to be interesting about where RIM is going with the Blackberry is that as they try to make their models more popular with more than their "traditional" business customers, they are making them less easy to use.
A case in point. The standard Blackberry had been the horizontal wide spaced key model. That was pretty much all they offered as far as egronomics went. That was (and is) GREAT for typing.
Then they realised that sales were being limited by that rather clumsy shape.
They went to narrowed vertical models in addition.
But, when trying out my wifes model 8700, I found the keyboard to be not much easier to use for the double thumb approach than my Treo 700p, wheras, older models were much easier to type with.
Looking at even newer models, such as the Pearl, it can't be done at all, in any friendly way. Such models as the 7100 series are just as bad. The 8300 Curve, though it does have the full keyboard, is too narrow altogether.
It looks as though RIM will be forgoing most of the ease of use for wider sales.
But, that pits them directly against other companies, including Apple.
While RIM has push mail, a feature that seems to be no more useful than your browser simply going to the server and getting it at any interval you specify, the secure nature of it is what makes the difference.
Apple will have push as well, but, it's from Yahoo, and it's not as secure as RIMs'. If Apple did offer push that was secure, then that might be a different story.
Agree on all, Mel. In trying to get sleeker and cooler, RIMM went backwards. The security aspect of the BB email system is paramount/non-negotiable for business use and a big hurdle if AAPL is ever going to crack that market
While RIM has push mail, a feature that seems to be no more useful than your browser simply going to the server and getting it at any interval you specify, the secure nature of it is what makes the difference.
Apple will have push as well, but, it's from Yahoo, and it's not as secure as RIMs'. If Apple did offer push that was secure, then that might be a different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfe2211
Agree on all, Mel. In trying to get sleeker and cooler, RIMM went backwards. The security aspect of the BB email system is paramount/non-negotiable for business use and a big hurdle if AAPL is ever going to crack that market
How is RIM's security better? Does it merely offer encrypted email access like with Gmail?
Here's a few articles that Forbes has sent me today.
Remember, this is just from today?so far.
[removed links]
Nice articles from Forbes. Those clearly state the iPhone will not be just for Apple "fanboys" or "techno-geeks," but for a much broader market. I predict 1M units sold within the first 3 weeks.
I also predict that Apple nor AT&T delay and secrecy with their iPhone service plans is to create more positive buzz the day before the launch. I suspect that the rates will be lower than most comparable plans, not higher. I suspect this is one of the main reasons?besides the control Apple wanted to have?why Verzion past on the opportunity.
Comments
I agree that, for now, the iPhone is irrelevant for most business users. But, I know a number of business users that have Treo's, and a couple with Windows Mobile models as well.
Do they use all their Smart Phone capabilities? That was my point about the Blackberry addicts in my very small sample. The are only interested in a very limited subset of its features.
The Palm Treo is actually a great example of a very smart phone with many Apps that never "tipped" like the Blackberry. Palm is biding time right now waiting and hoping to be acquired by someone, any one. RIMM on the other hand is a mega success story with a devoted following and Stock that approaches AAPL for stardom and $$$.
Do they use all their Smart Phone capabilities? That was my point about the Blackberry addicts in my very small sample. The are only interested in a very limited subset of its features.
That's a real good question.
We have had an argument here about just what constitutes a smartphone.
If they only use the e-mail feature, do they need a "real" smartphone at all?
I use every function of my Treo EXCEPT the email.
From what I know about those people I mentioned, it varies. Some use only e-mail, others use more functions. Appointments and scheduling seems to the other big app.
Memos to themselves about something seems to be another important function.
After that?
They must not get text messages with photo's from other phones then because that doesn't work on a Crack berry. Push email. I am not sure why this feature ranks king among my kind. Why not just have the phone check every few minutes like a COMPUTER.
Not check the web? What kind of business are they in? Highschool?
Crackberry addict here...
The guys are text and numbers guys in my very small sample--Business people constantly making deals, checking on messages and figures from a client or the office (I met them via my Fantasy Football leagues). When I have lunch with them, they check their Blackberry every 30 seconds, give or take, for new emails. They're like chain smokers. I didn't say they didn't check the web--they just said it was not that easy given the current system to browse and read web pages on their smart phones. I didn't ask, but should have, if they at least looked at a stock ticker. The point of my post was not that the iPhone won't be a good businessman's phone--it might be. I cited 11 busines s guys who had smartphones but only cared mainly about one feature, push email /text only messaging--other advanced smart phone features were irrelevant to this group.As with any anecdotal info and small group sizes, they may not be representative of the population. However, if you're ever down on Wall Street at lunch time, watch the boys and girls as they scurry off to lunch. They "chain smoke" constantly.
IMO, what "tipped" the Blackberry into the wildly popular device it is today, was its push email system. I'm hoping the iPhone has A function or functions which which will "tip" it in the business world (easy functional web browsing?) and in the consumer world (coolness, Ipod, other).
As a Crackberry addict, why don't you tell us what advanced smart phone features/Apps you currently use?
I work for a software company and our product is an office communications platform with real time presence that integrates with Microsoft Exchange, next month we will be putting our client on Blackberry's and Windows Mobile, i obviously will be running our app then and this is certainly something that the likes of Microsoft, Cisco, IBM and co are all looking at doing. If Apple release a business class device then 3rd party apps is something that they are going to have to support from day one.
I think the Blackberry tipping point may well have been push email but the keyboard was certainly a factor, i love my blackberry keyboard for emails and sms but as well as the best feature of my blackberry it is also the worst as it makes it a dog of a phone to carry around. If the iPhone touchscreen keyboard works as well as Steve Jobs say it does then a business device with that technology could well be a Blackberry rival.
I use a Blackberry for work and only ever use it for emails and making calls, Nothing else. I can see web based location services useful if i could ever be bothered to give them ago. When arriving in a new city i guess local directions and maps being good. As it stands i cannot see the iPhone making a good business device but it is not unforeseeable that Apple will have at least 2-3 models of iphone next year and i guess one of them would be a business device.
I work for a software company and our product is an office communications platform with real time presence that integrates with Microsoft Exchange, next month we will be putting our client on Blackberry's and Windows Mobile, i obviously will be running our app then and this is certainly something that the likes of Microsoft, Cisco, IBM and co are all looking at doing. If Apple release a business class device then 3rd party apps is something that they are going to have to support from day one.
I think the Blackberry tipping point may well have been push email but the keyboard was certainly a factor, i love my blackberry keyboard for emails and sms but as well as the best feature of my blackberry it is also the worst as it makes it a dog of a phone to carry around. If the iPhone touchscreen keyboard works as well as Steve Jobs say it does then a business device with that technology could well be a Blackberry rival.
Good post for this Apple-centric board. LOL, I used one from my guys to make a call and it was like holding a small plate to my ear.
Good luck with your App.
It's useful to see what features this Smartphone has and compare it to those of the iPhone. While Apple is going to target consumers at first, if it is ever going to "tip" Crackberry businessmen addicts into iPhone addicts, this unit is the one it has to eventually compete with.
http://www.geardigest.com/2007/06/06...erry_8800_now/
The guys are text and numbers guys in my very small sample--Business people constantly making deals, checking on messages and figures from a client or the office (I met them via my Fantasy Football leagues). When I have lunch with them, they check their Blackberry every 30 seconds, give or take, for new emails. They're like chain smokers. I didn't say they didn't check the web--they just said it was not that easy given the current system to browse and read web pages on their smart phones. I didn't ask, but should have, if they at least looked at a stock ticker. The point of my post was not that the iPhone won't be a good businessman's phone--it might be. I cited 11 busines s guys who had smartphones but only cared mainly about one feature, push email /text only messaging--other advanced smart phone features were irrelevant to this group.As with any anecdotal info and small group sizes, they may not be representative of the population. However, if you're ever down on Wall Street at lunch time, watch the boys and girls as they scurry off to lunch. They "chain smoke" constantly.
IMO, what "tipped" the Blackberry into the wildly popular device it is today, was its push email system. I'm hoping the iPhone has A function or functions which which will "tip" it in the business world (easy functional web browsing?) and in the consumer world (coolness, Ipod, other).
As a Crackberry addict, why don't you tell us what advanced smart phone features/Apps you currently use?
I use my BlackBerry 8703e for email, text messaging, quick web browsing for stock quotes, weather, and sports scores. Past that, I do not use the Blackberry for anything else other than calling. Now, I sync my phone via PocketMac for Blackberry. It is a work phone for my buissness. We have ~55+ employee's and 5 of us carry BlackBerry's. If you can store files on a Blackberry 8703e from Verizon, I can't do it and don't care too because while being the badest phone around, after seeing the iPhone it might as well have a rotary dial on it now.
My brother and I will be upgrading to the iPhone because of better sync tech, better calendar, better Mac integration, better WEB BROWSER that can be used to actually look something up, better calling features as three way, swapping back and forth, not having a thumb wheel to wear out. I was hoping for PDF viewer on the iPhone too.
One thing I can say is I have dropped my Blackberry more than I care to count and it is still going. The 8703e is my third one. I generally get a new release model once every 12 - 18 months depending on features and/or accidents (dropping my first Blackberry in a puddle of water getting out of the car :
The iPhone will dominate and Push email is way overrated. While I don't have a problem with Push email, nor do I constantly check my phone for email unless I am bored at which point on the iPhone I can listen to music, watch a video, or actually surf the web via WAN or wifi.
I use my BlackBerry 8703e for email, text messaging, quick web browsing for stock quotes, weather, and sports scores. Past that, I do not use the Blackberry for anything else other than calling. Now, I sync my phone via PocketMac for Blackberry. It is a work phone for my buissness. We have ~55+ employee's and 5 of us carry BlackBerry's. If you can store files on a Blackberry 8703e from Verizon, I can't do it and don't care too because while being the badest phone around, after seeing the iPhone it might as well have a rotary dial on it now.
My brother and I will be upgrading to the iPhone because of better sync tech, better calendar, better Mac integration, better WEB BROWSER that can be used to actually look something up, better calling features as three way, swapping back and forth, not having a thumb wheel to wear out. I was hoping for PDF viewer on the iPhone too.
One thing I can say is I have dropped my Blackberry more than I care to count and it is still going. The 8703e is my third one. I generally get a new release model once every 12 - 18 months depending on features and/or accidents (dropping my first Blackberry in a puddle of water getting out of the car :
The iPhone will dominate and Push email is way overrated. While I don't have a problem with Push email, nor do I constantly check my phone for email unless I am bored at which point on the iPhone I can listen to music, watch a video, or actually surf the web via WAN or wifi.
Thanks for the response aplnub. I'll be right behind you in line to buy my iPhone. IYO, push email is "way over rated" but it is the drug which has the RIM masses addicted.
For the folks on this board who have no frame of reference, could you please describe your Web experience with your Blackberrys? For example, ease of connection, speed, surfability, ease of seeing the print on web pages, etc. Thanks.
Thanks for the response aplnub. I'll be right behind you in line to buy my iPhone. IYO, push email is "way over rated" but it is the drug which has the RIM masses addicted.
For the folks on this board who have no frame of reference, could you please describe your Web experience with your Blackberrys? For example, ease of connection, speed, surfability, ease of seeing the print on web pages, etc. Thanks.
The Blackberry has a web browser but not like a computer. The server, i.e. I assume the phone company or RIM, take the web page data and rearrange it so the the Blackberry can view it. Viewing this forums and normal websites sucks! For instance, if you look on the left at my username, it shows up inline (top to bottom) with the postings and is meshed together with all the other stuff. You can only scroll vertical so they have to format the page to be just that, skinny and vertical.
On a Verizon 1X connection, browsing is slow for most normal websites. Evolution speeds are NOT that much better either. It takes a 48 seconds to pull up this thread (that was after I had already pulled it up first thing this morning). I feel this is because of the reformating of the page data so the black berry goes at it backwards since it lets the server do the formatting and not the phone.
The screen size was nice and big until the iPhone hit the scene. Landscape mode will be awesome.
However, email delivery (sending and receiving) is near instant. I recommend the email for doing email contest like on Fox and Friends in the morning. Once it's gone, it is delivered.
The Blackberry has a web browser but not like a computer. The server, i.e. I assume the phone company or RIM, take the web page data and rearrange it so the the Blackberry can view it. Viewing this forums and normal websites sucks! For instance, if you look on the left at my username, it shows up inline (top to bottom) with the postings and is meshed together with all the other stuff. You can only scroll vertical so they have to format the page to be just that, skinny and vertical.
On a Verizon 1X connection, browsing is slow for most normal websites. Evolution speeds are NOT that much better either. It takes a 48 seconds to pull up this thread (that was after I had already pulled it up first thing this morning). I feel this is because of the reformating of the page data so the black berry goes at it backwards since it lets the server do the formatting and not the phone.
The screen size was nice and big until the iPhone hit the scene. Landscape mode will be awesome.
However, email delivery (sending and receiving) is near instant. I recommend the email for doing email contest like on Fox and Friends in the morning. Once it's gone, it is delivered.
Thanks. You just described my limited poor web experiences with Smartphones. That's why I keep saying that if the widescreen/landscape iPhone system can deliver a superior web browsing experince, it will be the killer App or "Tipping Point" for a mobile phone. Combine that with at least acceptable typing on the virtual keyboard plus push email, and you have a mega success. Whether it's a "Smartphone" by today's standards is irrelevant.
You just described my limited poor web experiences with Smartphones. That's why I keep saying that if the widescreen/landscape iPhone system can deliver a superior web browsing experince, it will be the killer App or "Tipping Point" for a mobile phone. Combine that with at least acceptable typing on the virtual keyboard plus push email, and you have a mega success. Whether it's a "Smartphone" by today's standards is irrelevant.
I think what you are describing would be a killer phone for general use, The lack of 3G support is a strange one and i would imagine is one the reasons why Apple are reported to be struggling to find a UK carrier. GPRS does not deliver a decent enough web browsing experience so to pitch the phone as a web device but then to not support the fastest mobile data speeds leaves the iPhone wanting somewhat, i appreciate things maybe different in the sates, how fast is Edge? Though wifi is a great thing to have and if you lived in a city where there was blanket wifi coverage then the lack of 3G would certainly not be as important.
What you described however is certainly not enough to market this is as a business phone ala Blackberry, acceptable typing would not be acceptable for a device that you may possibly send 20-30 emails a day from, you need much better than acceptable, hence why the blackberry is so popular. I am not even sure the bigger screen would make a difference, business users are not really interested in a browser, the whole point of a Blackberry is to keep in touch while on the move, i can't think where i would get the chance to browse the web while out and about let alone why i would want to.
So for a personal phone for those people who want more from a phone than just calls and sms i think the iPhone is going to take some beating, but to talk about the iPhone as a Blackberry rival i think is premature, no matter how cool the iPhone seems to be and no matter how much i may want one i cannot see myself swapping a Blackberry for one unless the keyboard is as easy to type on as Blackberry and the email worked as well and could sync properly with Exchange.
I think what you are describing would be a killer phone for general use, The lack of 3G support is a strange one and i would imagine is one the reasons why Apple are reported to be struggling to find a UK carrier. GPRS does not deliver a decent enough web browsing experience so to pitch the phone as a web device but then to not support the fastest mobile data speeds leaves the iPhone wanting somewhat, i appreciate things maybe different in the sates, how fast is Edge? Though wifi is a great thing to have and if you lived in a city where there was blanket wifi coverage then the lack of 3G would certainly not be as important.
What you described however is certainly not enough to market this is as a business phone ala Blackberry, acceptable typing would not be acceptable for a device that you may possibly send 20-30 emails a day from, you need much better than acceptable, hence why the blackberry is so popular. I am not even sure the bigger screen would make a difference, business users are not really interested in a browser, the whole point of a Blackberry is to keep in touch while on the move, i can't think where i would get the chance to browse the web while out and about let alone why i would want to.
So for a personal phone for those people who want more from a phone than just calls and sms i think the iPhone is going to take some beating, but to talk about the iPhone as a Blackberry rival i think is premature, no matter how cool the iPhone seems to be and no matter how much i may want one i cannot see myself swapping a Blackberry for one unless the keyboard is as easy to type on as Blackberry and the email worked as well and could sync properly with Exchange.
All very fair, legitimate points Murphy. However, one thing we see increasing daily in the business world is use of the web as a vehicle for conducting business. See the dramatic rise of Salesforce.com for example and their competitors in this arena including such giants as IBM , SAP, Oracle and British Telecom. Furthermore, individual companies (like some Pharma companies I consult for) are increasing their use of secure encrypted web sites as a portal for getting, manipulating and leaving company based business data and strategic information. Nonetheless, I strongly agree with you that the Blackberry will be a formidable rival for the iPhone system for some time because of its firmly entrenched push email system and the ease of thumb typing on its models. In the early years of the iPhone, I don't think AAPL expects much penetration into the business market anyway--RIMM is just too strong. However, RIMM'S competitors in this area, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony/Ericsson and the soon to be defunct Palm are all at risk for market share from AAPL despite how "Smart" their phones are. In the business world, it's not about "Smart" in the phone. RIMM has shown that one small but very key functionality is all it takes to dominate the market.
All very fair, legitimate points Murphy. However, one thing we see increasing daily in the business world is use of the web as a vehicle for conducting business. See the dramatic rise of Salesforce.com for example and their competitors in this arena including such giants as IBM , SAP, Oracle and British Telecom. Furthermore, individual companies (like some Pharma companies I consult for) are increasing their use of secure encrypted web sites as a portal for getting, manipulating and leaving company based business data and strategic information. Nonetheless, I strongly agree with you that the Blackberry will be a formidable rival for the iPhone system for some time because of its firmly entrenched push email system and the ease of thumb typing on its models. In the early years of the iPhone, I don't think AAPL expects much penetration into the business market anyway--RIMM is just too strong. However, RIMM'S competitors in this area, Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Sony/Ericsson and the soon to be defunct Palm are all at risk for market share from AAPL despite how "Smart" their phones are. In the business world, it's not about "Smart" in the phone. RIMM has shown that one small but very key functionality is all it takes to dominate the market.
What I find to be interesting about where RIM is going with the Blackberry is that as they try to make their models more popular with more than their "traditional" business customers, they are making them less easy to use.
A case in point. The standard Blackberry had been the horizontal wide spaced key model. That was pretty much all they offered as far as egronomics went. That was (and is) GREAT for typing.
Then they realised that sales were being limited by that rather clumsy shape.
They went to narrowed vertical models in addition.
But, when trying out my wifes model 8700, I found the keyboard to be not much easier to use for the double thumb approach than my Treo 700p, wheras, older models were much easier to type with.
Looking at even newer models, such as the Pearl, it can't be done at all, in any friendly way. Such models as the 7100 series are just as bad. The 8300 Curve, though it does have the full keyboard, is too narrow altogether.
It looks as though RIM will be forgoing most of the ease of use for wider sales.
But, that pits them directly against other companies, including Apple.
While RIM has push mail, a feature that seems to be no more useful than your browser simply going to the server and getting it at any interval you specify, the secure nature of it is what makes the difference.
Apple will have push as well, but, it's from Yahoo, and it's not as secure as RIMs'. If Apple did offer push that was secure, then that might be a different story.
This has all of RIM's models:
http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/manufacturer.php?m=28
While RIM has push mail, a feature that seems to be no more useful than your browser simply going to the server and getting it at any interval you specify, the secure nature of it is what makes the difference.
Apple will have push as well, but, it's from Yahoo, and it's not as secure as RIMs'. If Apple did offer push that was secure, then that might be a different story.
Agree on all, Mel. In trying to get sleeker and cooler, RIMM went backwards. The security aspect of the BB email system is paramount/non-negotiable for business use and a big hurdle if AAPL is ever going to crack that market
How is RIM's security better? Does it merely offer encrypted email access like with Gmail?
How is RIM's security better? Does it merely offer encrypted email access like with Gmail?
To be honest, I don't remember how it's done. I had read about it at some point, but don't remember now.
Remember, this is just from today?so far.
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/...partner=alerts
Here's a few articles that Forbes has sent me today.
Remember, this is just from today?so far.
[removed links]
Nice articles from Forbes. Those clearly state the iPhone will not be just for Apple "fanboys" or "techno-geeks," but for a much broader market. I predict 1M units sold within the first 3 weeks.
I also predict that Apple nor AT&T delay and secrecy with their iPhone service plans is to create more positive buzz the day before the launch. I suspect that the rates will be lower than most comparable plans, not higher. I suspect this is one of the main reasons?besides the control Apple wanted to have?why Verzion past on the opportunity.
How is RIM's security better? Does it merely offer encrypted email access like with Gmail?
Here's a nice brief overview of BB security implemented thru its Enterprise Server (BES).
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglan...y/features.jsp
Here's a nice brief overview of BB security implemented thru its Enterprise Server (BES).
http://na.blackberry.com/eng/ataglan...y/features.jsp
That looks to as secure as can be expected today.
Thanks for the info.