Thanks for clearing that up. I watched the other thread closely for your reply when Marzetta posted "Say it isn't so." My apologies if it's there and I missed it.
Not a problem. Man some people are going to flip when I buy a Blu-ray player some day
I do think Apple should attempt to support both. The economies of scale are going to improve for both formats drastically in 2008. Toshiba is shipping every laptop with HD DVD and I'd bet that Sony will have Blu-ray in at least half of their models.
Companies like Sharp and Atmel have already shrunk the diodes down significantly paving the way for smaller form factors. Someone needs to create a slot loading player to get Apple's attention.
I worked for a company that represents Toshiba laptops over a year ago but not as a direct Toshiba employee nor was I focused on promoting HD DVD.
Well gee, given how pedantic you were in the other thread I guess then what he wrote was entirely correct.
Quote:
Many have "tried to poison the well" but logical fallacies do not hold up under futher scrutiny. I can clearly articulate why "I' choose HD DVD for myself and to some it will bemore persuasive than others. I'm ok with that.
The way to avoid poisoning the well is to fully disclose your ties which apparently you haven't done until now. That you once were part of a company that sold/represented Toshiba products should have been made clear in that other thread. If the well is poisoned then there's none to blame but yourself.
Quote:
There are legit reasons why Blu-ray should not be the default player for Apple. The ideal solution is to either let the battle commence and see if a victor emerges after the Holidays or look for a solution that supports both formats.
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
Well gee, given how pedantic you were in the other thread I guess then what he wrote was entirely correct.
The way to avoid poisoning the well is to fully disclose your ties which apparently you haven't done until now. That you once were part of a company that sold/represented Toshiba products should have been made clear in that other thread. If the well is poisoned then there's none to blame but yourself.
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
Vinea
I can "reliably" burn HD content to DVD-R for playback on DVD Player or a Toshiba STB. Those who need Blu-ray burners have had the option for quite some time and in reality the sales are bupkiss.
I think cooler mechanisms are coming that will give us options. Hell if Apple cannot wait then deliver seperate HD player/records. Doesn't bother me one iota.
God you sound like a Sony marketing drone. If Blockbuster is carrying HD DVD movies online and still in select stores then that's a far cry from sending all HD DVD discs back the their maker. I don't go stores to rent movies...I've embraced the Netflix paradigm.
1080p video and PCM for gaming? Superfluous the first time you play games the cinematic intros and breaks are nice but they don't really enhance the game all that much. Sony has conviced you guys that fattening up their product is necessary in order to justify the expense of Blu-ray.
Have you ever played Gears of War or Halo 2 on XBOX? If so, then you'd know that you can beat the game in about 6hours, ONLY because of their storage limitations and it would be silly to be like the 1st gen playstation and split up some of the games onto several discs. It is very important for newer games to be on blu-ray for the enhanced graphics and audio, games use a lot of space. As for the PCM, I consider myself a somewhat avid A/V person and I love watching movies in clarity and with 7.1 lossless sound. For HD DVD you have to compress the file and turn it into Dolby TrueHD which is NOT entirely lossless, pretty close though and also have a receiver to capable of TrueHD. With Blu-ray you can have completely lossless 7.1 sound without any compression whatsoever and listen to a movie or music the way it was meant to be heard.
Have you ever played Gears of War or Halo 2 on XBOX? If so, then you'd know that you can beat the game in about 6hours, ONLY because of their storage limitations and it would be silly to be like the 1st gen playstation and split up some of the games onto several discs. It is very important for newer games to be on blu-ray for the enhanced graphics and audio, games use a lot of space. As for the PCM, I consider myself a somewhat avid A/V person and I love watching movies in clarity and with 7.1 lossless sound. For HD DVD you have to compress the file and turn it into Dolby TrueHD which is NOT entirely lossless, pretty close though and also have a receiver to capable of TrueHD. With Blu-ray you can have completely lossless 7.1 sound without any compression whatsoever and listen to a movie or music the way it was meant to be heard.
Please, do check the facts. The TrueHD is lossless, but just compressed. LPCM is also lossless in the less storage efficient format. One mis-information that should be corrected is that reason HD-DVD uses TrueHD over the PCM is because all the HD-DVD players have TrueHD hardware decoding capabilities where all the Blu-Ray players do not. Therefore, PCM is needed to deliver lossless on Blu-Ray, but HD-DVD can take benefit of more efficent TrueHD.
I worked for a company that represents Toshiba laptops over a year ago but not as a direct Toshiba employee nor was I focused on promoting HD DVD.
Many have "tried to poison the well" but logical fallacies do not hold up under futher scrutiny. I can clearly articulate why "I' choose HD DVD for myself and to some it will bemore persuasive than others. I'm ok with that.
There are legit reasons why Blu-ray should not be the default player for Apple. The ideal solution is to either let the battle commence and see if a victor emerges after the Holidays or look for a solution that supports both formats.
I just saw this thread on the AI front page, so I'm just a bit late getting here.
In an earlier post, you had said that HD-DVD was a superior technology. While HD-DVD uses the older DVD technology to press disks, and that gives it a small price advantage there, and while the players themselves also use the older technology as a basis for their designs and manufacturing, giving them a price advantage there, how does that translate into a "superior" technology?
I haven't seen any major disagreements about this. Blu-Ray is the superior technology. The arguments have surrounded the questions of whether the difference in (current) pricing makes that superiority worthwhile, and whether it is necessary. But, that's different.
So far, HD-DVD hasn't come out with a recorder because of technical difficulties. That indicates, to me, that their technology is having serious problems.
As a computer user, I would not want a player when I can get a recorder instead. BD recorders are now in their second generation, and the prices have dropped significantly, while the promised HD-DVD version is now 6 months behind schedule.
The fact about software sales (movies, etc.) is that BD is ahead by at least 2 to 1 at this point, and it isn't because of the vouchers for the free disks. HD-DVD companies give them out as well.
One important thing to consider is that BD isn't more expensive just because the technology is newer, and needs more sophisticated manufacturing equipment, but also because the laser costs more. That cost difference is being resolved quickly.
While HD-DVD players are lower in cost, they also have less room to drop further in the next year or two, while BD players will drop by a greater percentage during that same time. Right now, players with the same capability from each camp cost about the same. The cheaper HD-DVD players only have a 1080i output, while all of the BD players go to 1080p. You may not consider that to be important, but I can assure you that the millions of people who are now buying 1080p screens will not agree.
When the 60GB PS3's are out of stock, the newer 80GB sku's are expected to drop to the same $499 price. While Sony, so far, has not done well with the PS3, for several reasons, there are still quite a few out there, and the evidence is that other than the vouchers given with the machines, people are buying movies for them.
Sales of the PS3 will pick up at the lower price, and if more games come out on schedule, that will help as well. Meanwhile, the 360 could be faltering because of the major problems they are having. As there is an add-on HD-DVD player for it, a slowing down in sales of the machine will hurt HD-DVD there as well.
With all of the studios, except one, backing either BD exclusively, or BD and HD-DVD, with sales of BD movies outpacing the sales of the same movies in HD-DVD format, and with only one studio exclusively backing HD-DVD, the odds are much in favor of BD.
Unless something we can't see now, happens, I don't see HD-DVD surviving in the long haul.
I can "reliably" burn HD content to DVD-R for playback on DVD Player or a Toshiba STB. Those who need Blu-ray burners have had the option for quite some time and in reality the sales are bupkiss.
The first BR burner for the Mac Pro appeared only in late April for around $900. Yeah sales will be a tad slow. But now burners are appearing at slightly under $300 retail.
Apple could probably get slimline models made in volume for around that cost. HD-DVD burners? Not in the next couple quarters.
Please, do check the facts. The TrueHD is lossless, but just compressed.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
The terms "compressed" and "lossy" have nothing to do with each other.
Lossy compression is just one of several ways to do it.
Back in the old days I had Disk Doubler, and later RAM Doubler, both lossless compression schemes.
Apple's audio lossless compression scheme works the same way, as does .Zip which was already mentioned, as well as Stuffit files.
The Unix underpinnings have their own lossless methods.
The only disadvantage to lossless is that it can only compress about 2:1, though really good coding might compress some files a bit better.
Man some people are going to flip when I buy a Blu-ray player some day
I'm getting whiplash from all your flip-flops. What happened to "I will buy Blu-ray only when HD DVD is dead, dead, dead!" (paraphrasing) only a few weeks ago? Are you now admitting that HD DVD is dying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
There wouldn't be much point for Apple to just put a reader in their desktop computers. That would make them, what, no more than desktop movie players? What's the point when standalones that can be connected to large HDTVs are more convenient and often less expensive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtotes
No. DVDSP supports creating HD output for later authoring to a 'blue-laser format disc'. It can't burn Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
Roxio Toast 8, on the other hand, does support burning to Blu-ray. But not HD DVD.
I know this may be a silly question, but what are the true technology given advantages are there to HD DVD? I mean, neither disk works in old players and to me, it just appears that Blu-ray and HD DVD are pretty much the same technology wise besides the fact that Blu-ray holds more per layer..
I know this may be a silly question, but what are the true technology given advantages are there to HD DVD? I mean, neither disk works in old players and to me, it just appears that Blu-ray and HD DVD are pretty much the same technology wise besides the fact that Blu-ray holds more per layer..
BD uses a finer laser than does HD-DVD, which is why it gets more on a disk (at least, that's most of the reason).
It's like asking if you would rather have an HD with 90 GB capacity, or one with 150 GB capacity.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
I'm not trying to convince you to anything, but just clarifying the facts on the HiDef lossless audio codecs being used and why.
If the studios believe that Dolby TrueHD scheme can deliver bit per bit lossless sound when properly decoded and the Sharc audio processor in HD-DVD players have proved to do a great job, I have no choice but believe the studios.
Mods, I'm not sure why this thread deserves to be seperate from the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD thread, since everything stated thus far in this thread is nothing but regurgitation of the aforementioned thread. The Blu-ray vs. HD DVD thread was made specifically back in 2005 by myself to discuss just this--the probability of Blu-ray (or HD DVD drives which is highly unlikely) drives in Apple offerings.
IMO, this thread should be closed. If offers nothing the other doesn't cover or discuss...ya know like the fact of HD DVD getting pwned.
That web page is mine. I update it whenever the HD content on Xbox Live changes (I check the service for changes daily). I've added a note to the page explaining this.
No. DVDSP supports creating HD output for later authoring to a 'blue-laser format disc'. It can't burn Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
lol. you are incorrect. it supports authoring for HD-DVD format red and blue laser discs. you can burn HD-DVD onto red laser discs immediately, or send your HD_VTS folder out for replication. DVDSP does not support Blu-Ray at all at present.
In an earlier post, you had said that HD-DVD was a superior technology. While HD-DVD uses the older DVD technology to press disks, and that gives it a small price advantage there, and while the players themselves also use the older technology as a basis for their designs and manufacturing, giving them a price advantage there, how does that translate into a "superior" technology?
Superiority must always be contextual. So let me apply a bit here. If we're talking about storage or bandwidth the Blu-ray is technically superior without a doubt. Those advantages may or may not translate into better quality movies but the fact remains they are superior. HD DVD is a superior platform. It may not match Blu-ray in bandwidth or storage but every player has a plethora of features that are optional or non-existant on Blu-ray. People may state they don't care or use such features but that doesn't invalidate the premise that the extra features can denote superiority.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
So far, HD-DVD hasn't come out with a recorder because of technical difficulties. That indicates, to me, that their technology is having serious problems.
Yes ..Blu-ray was conceived as a recording format. Sony knew that by placing the laser closer to the surface and reducing the protective layer they'd have less problems with smaller pits. Toshiba is going to have have a harder road to hoe but they've just announced the laptop with a HD DVD burner in it so we're on our way. I don't expect the recorders to affordable though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
As a computer user, I would not want a player when I can get a recorder instead. BD recorders are now in their second generation, and the prices have dropped significantly, while the promised HD-DVD version is now 6 months behind schedule.
Yup my recommendation is to get a Blu-ray recorder if 25-50GB storage is something you need. I view the technologies as more Video related and knowing I can get HD onto a DVD-R disc is great. I'm not shelling out the ducats yet for HD Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
The fact about software sales (movies, etc.) is that BD is ahead by at least 2 to 1 at this point, and it isn't because of the vouchers for the free disks. HD-DVD companies give them out as well.
False
Granted this is dynamic, there is no 2:1 sales lead going on. If HD DVD was declining we'd see this everywhere...but in fact sales are increasing online as well as in stores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
One important thing to consider is that BD isn't more expensive just because the technology is newer, and needs more sophisticated manufacturing equipment, but also because the laser costs more. That cost difference is being resolved quickly.
We'll see...Sony hasn't matched Toshibas vow to put a HD DVD in every notebook next year. 2006 Toshiba notebook sales where 5.6 Million or so. I figure they'll do roughly 7 million in 2008. That's a lot of players and confidence in your suppliers ability to deliver in volume. We'll see who executes better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
While HD-DVD players are lower in cost, they also have less room to drop further in the next year or two, while BD players will drop by a greater percentage during that same time. Right now, players with the same capability from each camp cost about the same. The cheaper HD-DVD players only have a 1080i output, while all of the BD players go to 1080p. You may not consider that to be important, but I can assure you that the millions of people who are now buying 1080p screens will not agree.
True but if they do drop to where the lowest end player is $149 on sale it doesn't matter that the drop may only represent %20. What matters is it puts this player into another home. The HD-A20 supports 1080p $329 on Amazon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgross
Unless something we can't see now, happens, I don't see HD-DVD surviving in the long haul.
It may not. I think it hinges on getting enough hardware out the door and into homes to break Blu-ray's lock on the studios. HD DVD need only hang on long enough to put millions of players into homes. That becomes millions of people calling Disney and complaining about not supporting their player.
Comments
Thanks for clearing that up. I watched the other thread closely for your reply when Marzetta posted "Say it isn't so." My apologies if it's there and I missed it.
Not a problem. Man some people are going to flip when I buy a Blu-ray player some day
I do think Apple should attempt to support both. The economies of scale are going to improve for both formats drastically in 2008. Toshiba is shipping every laptop with HD DVD and I'd bet that Sony will have Blu-ray in at least half of their models.
Companies like Sharp and Atmel have already shrunk the diodes down significantly paving the way for smaller form factors. Someone needs to create a slot loading player to get Apple's attention.
I worked for a company that represents Toshiba laptops over a year ago but not as a direct Toshiba employee nor was I focused on promoting HD DVD.
Well gee, given how pedantic you were in the other thread I guess then what he wrote was entirely correct.
Many have "tried to poison the well" but logical fallacies do not hold up under futher scrutiny. I can clearly articulate why "I' choose HD DVD for myself and to some it will bemore persuasive than others. I'm ok with that.
The way to avoid poisoning the well is to fully disclose your ties which apparently you haven't done until now. That you once were part of a company that sold/represented Toshiba products should have been made clear in that other thread. If the well is poisoned then there's none to blame but yourself.
There are legit reasons why Blu-ray should not be the default player for Apple. The ideal solution is to either let the battle commence and see if a victor emerges after the Holidays or look for a solution that supports both formats.
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
Vinea
Well gee, given how pedantic you were in the other thread I guess then what he wrote was entirely correct.
The way to avoid poisoning the well is to fully disclose your ties which apparently you haven't done until now. That you once were part of a company that sold/represented Toshiba products should have been made clear in that other thread. If the well is poisoned then there's none to blame but yourself.
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
Vinea
I can "reliably" burn HD content to DVD-R for playback on DVD Player or a Toshiba STB. Those who need Blu-ray burners have had the option for quite some time and in reality the sales are bupkiss.
I think cooler mechanisms are coming that will give us options. Hell if Apple cannot wait then deliver seperate HD player/records. Doesn't bother me one iota.
God you sound like a Sony marketing drone. If Blockbuster is carrying HD DVD movies online and still in select stores then that's a far cry from sending all HD DVD discs back the their maker. I don't go stores to rent movies...I've embraced the Netflix paradigm.
1080p video and PCM for gaming? Superfluous the first time you play games the cinematic intros and breaks are nice but they don't really enhance the game all that much. Sony has conviced you guys that fattening up their product is necessary in order to justify the expense of Blu-ray.
Have you ever played Gears of War or Halo 2 on XBOX? If so, then you'd know that you can beat the game in about 6hours, ONLY because of their storage limitations and it would be silly to be like the 1st gen playstation and split up some of the games onto several discs. It is very important for newer games to be on blu-ray for the enhanced graphics and audio, games use a lot of space. As for the PCM, I consider myself a somewhat avid A/V person and I love watching movies in clarity and with 7.1 lossless sound. For HD DVD you have to compress the file and turn it into Dolby TrueHD which is NOT entirely lossless, pretty close though and also have a receiver to capable of TrueHD. With Blu-ray you can have completely lossless 7.1 sound without any compression whatsoever and listen to a movie or music the way it was meant to be heard.
Have you ever played Gears of War or Halo 2 on XBOX? If so, then you'd know that you can beat the game in about 6hours, ONLY because of their storage limitations and it would be silly to be like the 1st gen playstation and split up some of the games onto several discs. It is very important for newer games to be on blu-ray for the enhanced graphics and audio, games use a lot of space. As for the PCM, I consider myself a somewhat avid A/V person and I love watching movies in clarity and with 7.1 lossless sound. For HD DVD you have to compress the file and turn it into Dolby TrueHD which is NOT entirely lossless, pretty close though and also have a receiver to capable of TrueHD. With Blu-ray you can have completely lossless 7.1 sound without any compression whatsoever and listen to a movie or music the way it was meant to be heard.
Please, do check the facts. The TrueHD is lossless, but just compressed. LPCM is also lossless in the less storage efficient format. One mis-information that should be corrected is that reason HD-DVD uses TrueHD over the PCM is because all the HD-DVD players have TrueHD hardware decoding capabilities where all the Blu-Ray players do not. Therefore, PCM is needed to deliver lossless on Blu-Ray, but HD-DVD can take benefit of more efficent TrueHD.
I worked for a company that represents Toshiba laptops over a year ago but not as a direct Toshiba employee nor was I focused on promoting HD DVD.
Many have "tried to poison the well" but logical fallacies do not hold up under futher scrutiny. I can clearly articulate why "I' choose HD DVD for myself and to some it will bemore persuasive than others. I'm ok with that.
There are legit reasons why Blu-ray should not be the default player for Apple. The ideal solution is to either let the battle commence and see if a victor emerges after the Holidays or look for a solution that supports both formats.
I just saw this thread on the AI front page, so I'm just a bit late getting here.
In an earlier post, you had said that HD-DVD was a superior technology. While HD-DVD uses the older DVD technology to press disks, and that gives it a small price advantage there, and while the players themselves also use the older technology as a basis for their designs and manufacturing, giving them a price advantage there, how does that translate into a "superior" technology?
I haven't seen any major disagreements about this. Blu-Ray is the superior technology. The arguments have surrounded the questions of whether the difference in (current) pricing makes that superiority worthwhile, and whether it is necessary. But, that's different.
So far, HD-DVD hasn't come out with a recorder because of technical difficulties. That indicates, to me, that their technology is having serious problems.
As a computer user, I would not want a player when I can get a recorder instead. BD recorders are now in their second generation, and the prices have dropped significantly, while the promised HD-DVD version is now 6 months behind schedule.
The fact about software sales (movies, etc.) is that BD is ahead by at least 2 to 1 at this point, and it isn't because of the vouchers for the free disks. HD-DVD companies give them out as well.
One important thing to consider is that BD isn't more expensive just because the technology is newer, and needs more sophisticated manufacturing equipment, but also because the laser costs more. That cost difference is being resolved quickly.
While HD-DVD players are lower in cost, they also have less room to drop further in the next year or two, while BD players will drop by a greater percentage during that same time. Right now, players with the same capability from each camp cost about the same. The cheaper HD-DVD players only have a 1080i output, while all of the BD players go to 1080p. You may not consider that to be important, but I can assure you that the millions of people who are now buying 1080p screens will not agree.
When the 60GB PS3's are out of stock, the newer 80GB sku's are expected to drop to the same $499 price. While Sony, so far, has not done well with the PS3, for several reasons, there are still quite a few out there, and the evidence is that other than the vouchers given with the machines, people are buying movies for them.
Sales of the PS3 will pick up at the lower price, and if more games come out on schedule, that will help as well. Meanwhile, the 360 could be faltering because of the major problems they are having. As there is an add-on HD-DVD player for it, a slowing down in sales of the machine will hurt HD-DVD there as well.
With all of the studios, except one, backing either BD exclusively, or BD and HD-DVD, with sales of BD movies outpacing the sales of the same movies in HD-DVD format, and with only one studio exclusively backing HD-DVD, the odds are much in favor of BD.
Unless something we can't see now, happens, I don't see HD-DVD surviving in the long haul.
I can "reliably" burn HD content to DVD-R for playback on DVD Player or a Toshiba STB. Those who need Blu-ray burners have had the option for quite some time and in reality the sales are bupkiss.
The first BR burner for the Mac Pro appeared only in late April for around $900. Yeah sales will be a tad slow. But now burners are appearing at slightly under $300 retail.
Apple could probably get slimline models made in volume for around that cost. HD-DVD burners? Not in the next couple quarters.
Vinea
Please, do check the facts. The TrueHD is lossless, but just compressed.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
A zip file is also compressed and lossless.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
The terms "compressed" and "lossy" have nothing to do with each other.
Lossy compression is just one of several ways to do it.
Back in the old days I had Disk Doubler, and later RAM Doubler, both lossless compression schemes.
Apple's audio lossless compression scheme works the same way, as does .Zip which was already mentioned, as well as Stuffit files.
The Unix underpinnings have their own lossless methods.
The only disadvantage to lossless is that it can only compress about 2:1, though really good coding might compress some files a bit better.
and yet DVDSP supports HD_DVD, not Blu-ray.... waddaya reckon of that, sherlock?
No. DVDSP supports creating HD output for later authoring to a 'blue-laser format disc'. It can't burn Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
Man some people are going to flip when I buy a Blu-ray player some day
I'm getting whiplash from all your flip-flops. What happened to "I will buy Blu-ray only when HD DVD is dead, dead, dead!" (paraphrasing) only a few weeks ago? Are you now admitting that HD DVD is dying?
And there are many reasons to select Blu-ray over HD-DVD today for the Mac. Among other things better burners. There are more and more folks with HD vid cams now. Might be nice to be able to burn it to a disc.
There wouldn't be much point for Apple to just put a reader in their desktop computers. That would make them, what, no more than desktop movie players? What's the point when standalones that can be connected to large HDTVs are more convenient and often less expensive?
No. DVDSP supports creating HD output for later authoring to a 'blue-laser format disc'. It can't burn Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
Roxio Toast 8, on the other hand, does support burning to Blu-ray. But not HD DVD.
I know this may be a silly question, but what are the true technology given advantages are there to HD DVD? I mean, neither disk works in old players and to me, it just appears that Blu-ray and HD DVD are pretty much the same technology wise besides the fact that Blu-ray holds more per layer..
BD uses a finer laser than does HD-DVD, which is why it gets more on a disk (at least, that's most of the reason).
It's like asking if you would rather have an HD with 90 GB capacity, or one with 150 GB capacity.
Thats a condradiction. I said that TrueHD supposed to be lossless, but if it is compressed to any extent, how can you know that your receiver is decoding it properly? PCM is completely uncompressed, thus lossless. If the audio in TrueHD is compressed and then decoded then you still lose some, but its pretty darn close to being lossless. I am not convinced at all that it is completely 100% lossless. I suppose if you bought a really nice receiver then, maybe. But, its been known for awhile that many receiver can't even decode DTS properly, how can you expect them to get TrueHD correct? Also, I HAVE listened to both and I believe PCM is the way to go IMHO.
I'm not trying to convince you to anything, but just clarifying the facts on the HiDef lossless audio codecs being used and why.
If the studios believe that Dolby TrueHD scheme can deliver bit per bit lossless sound when properly decoded and the Sharc audio processor in HD-DVD players have proved to do a great job, I have no choice but believe the studios.
IMO, this thread should be closed. If offers nothing the other doesn't cover or discuss...ya know like the fact of HD DVD getting pwned.
Here's a few lists of titles (dunno how up to date they are)
http://kplusb.org/xbox-360-hd-title.htm
That web page is mine. I update it whenever the HD content on Xbox Live changes (I check the service for changes daily). I've added a note to the page explaining this.
Thanks Vinea for the mention.
No. DVDSP supports creating HD output for later authoring to a 'blue-laser format disc'. It can't burn Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.
lol. you are incorrect. it supports authoring for HD-DVD format red and blue laser discs. you can burn HD-DVD onto red laser discs immediately, or send your HD_VTS folder out for replication. DVDSP does not support Blu-Ray at all at present.
In an earlier post, you had said that HD-DVD was a superior technology. While HD-DVD uses the older DVD technology to press disks, and that gives it a small price advantage there, and while the players themselves also use the older technology as a basis for their designs and manufacturing, giving them a price advantage there, how does that translate into a "superior" technology?
Superiority must always be contextual. So let me apply a bit here. If we're talking about storage or bandwidth the Blu-ray is technically superior without a doubt. Those advantages may or may not translate into better quality movies but the fact remains they are superior. HD DVD is a superior platform. It may not match Blu-ray in bandwidth or storage but every player has a plethora of features that are optional or non-existant on Blu-ray. People may state they don't care or use such features but that doesn't invalidate the premise that the extra features can denote superiority.
So far, HD-DVD hasn't come out with a recorder because of technical difficulties. That indicates, to me, that their technology is having serious problems.
Yes ..Blu-ray was conceived as a recording format. Sony knew that by placing the laser closer to the surface and reducing the protective layer they'd have less problems with smaller pits. Toshiba is going to have have a harder road to hoe but they've just announced the laptop with a HD DVD burner in it so we're on our way. I don't expect the recorders to affordable though.
As a computer user, I would not want a player when I can get a recorder instead. BD recorders are now in their second generation, and the prices have dropped significantly, while the promised HD-DVD version is now 6 months behind schedule.
Yup my recommendation is to get a Blu-ray recorder if 25-50GB storage is something you need. I view the technologies as more Video related and knowing I can get HD onto a DVD-R disc is great. I'm not shelling out the ducats yet for HD Media
The fact about software sales (movies, etc.) is that BD is ahead by at least 2 to 1 at this point, and it isn't because of the vouchers for the free disks. HD-DVD companies give them out as well.
False
Granted this is dynamic, there is no 2:1 sales lead going on. If HD DVD was declining we'd see this everywhere...but in fact sales are increasing online as well as in stores.
One important thing to consider is that BD isn't more expensive just because the technology is newer, and needs more sophisticated manufacturing equipment, but also because the laser costs more. That cost difference is being resolved quickly.
We'll see...Sony hasn't matched Toshibas vow to put a HD DVD in every notebook next year. 2006 Toshiba notebook sales where 5.6 Million or so. I figure they'll do roughly 7 million in 2008. That's a lot of players and confidence in your suppliers ability to deliver in volume. We'll see who executes better.
While HD-DVD players are lower in cost, they also have less room to drop further in the next year or two, while BD players will drop by a greater percentage during that same time. Right now, players with the same capability from each camp cost about the same. The cheaper HD-DVD players only have a 1080i output, while all of the BD players go to 1080p. You may not consider that to be important, but I can assure you that the millions of people who are now buying 1080p screens will not agree.
True but if they do drop to where the lowest end player is $149 on sale it doesn't matter that the drop may only represent %20. What matters is it puts this player into another home. The HD-A20 supports 1080p $329 on Amazon
Unless something we can't see now, happens, I don't see HD-DVD surviving in the long haul.
It may not. I think it hinges on getting enough hardware out the door and into homes to break Blu-ray's lock on the studios. HD DVD need only hang on long enough to put millions of players into homes. That becomes millions of people calling Disney and complaining about not supporting their player.